Poor "Snit"

In article , chrisv
wrote:

It's an example of the closed, unimaginative mindset so typical of a
Mac fan. He can't think of any reason why anyone would need more

He's referring to the freedom to choose your GUI as well as how the GUI
will function.

There's a hell of a lot more additional freedoms besides different
GUI's. I have no time, today, to educate those who don't consider it
a drawback to be controlled by a corporation.

nobody is being controlled by a corporation.

On 4/21/17, 10:23 AM, in article ,
"chrisv" wrote:

slime wrote:

chrisv wrote:

It's an example of the closed, unimaginative mindset so typical of a
Mac fan. He can't think of any reason why anyone would need more

He's referring to the freedom to choose your GUI as well as how the GUI
will function.

There's a hell of a lot more additional freedoms besides different
GUI's. I have no time, today, to educate those who don't consider it
a drawback to be controlled by a corporation.

I get the idea you like the open source nature. Nothing against that. And if
that is of value to you then it is a great reason to use desktop Linux.

Can you, however, think of tasks it allows you to do better than the
competition? If so, can you show examples? Even describe them?

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

On 4/21/17, 10:25 AM, in article ,
"nospam" wrote:

In article , Snit
wrote:


But let us not pretend that the license makes it where you can get your work
done better. As even Stallman says, if people used open source software
(which he insists on calling "Free") then there is a good chance you would
not be able to get as much done but he is OK with that.

who cares what stallman likes or doesn't like. that guy is a complete
and utter nutjob.

Absolutely no argument here. None. I love the GPL -- great license (or set
of licenses, really) to protect your IP -- but Stallman is a repulsive man
who should be investigated for possible child sexual abuse (which he
actively says he supports).

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

On 4/21/17, 10:25 AM, in article ,
"nospam" wrote:

In article , Snit
wrote:



It's an example of the closed, unimaginative mindset so typical of a
Mac fan. He can't think of any reason why anyone would need more
freedom.

there is no lack of freedom on a mac. anyone can do whatever the hell
they want with it.

there's actually *more* freedom with a mac because a mac can natively
run all mac, windows, linux and bsd apps, the widest choice of any
platform.

I see both points of view: on a Mac you cannot see the code to the OS. You
cannot change it. If I want to make it so I see 100 recent files and only 5
recent servers I cannot hack the OS and make that change and Apple does not
have that as an option. Even if you can find work-arounds, this is a
limitation.

a large part of macos is open source and you can not only see the code
but also modify it, and neither apple nor anyone else can stop you.

True. But say I want to have better numbering for Pages, even if I wanted to
and had the skill to code I could not really do it. Now, of course, if I
used LibreOffice I would not be able to do much to improve it either... if
people could it would not suck so bad with basic things like working with
images in a text document.

Of course, almost nobody is going to make such changes.

of course not. it's arguing just to argue.

For the most part, yes.

Say you do on KDE or
Gnome or whatever. You update and your change is likely gone and you have to
re-patch. Or your program stops working. But maybe you get lucky and it does
not. It is possible.

But that is minor. Look at the actual usage. What benefits does Linux grant?
What tasks are done better and fast and more efficiently? Not many.

none.

I am open to those who claim otherwise to make their case. I bet they will
not.

One of the things the Linux users love to brag about it portability of
programs -- a program made for one distro will work the same on another and
even the same on other UNIX systems. This means, by design, the GOAL is to
make programs that work to the lowest common denominator.

yep.

portability brings compromises.

the best apps are optimized for their native platform and take *full*
advantage of everything the hardware and operating system provides.

While I can offer some disclaimers, overall agree strongly.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

On 4/21/17, 10:25 AM, in article ,
"nospam" wrote:

In article , Snit
wrote:

When apple once again decides to drop support for existing third party
programs, as they have routinely done with new OSX versions, the users
can't
do absolutely nothing about that

more nonsense.

third parties support their own apps. it's no different on mac than any
other platform.

There are programs that stop working on updates. This is less of a problem
than in the past, but I will agree it happens more on macOS than I would
like (or OS X in the past).

sometimes, and that's not specific to apple.

Agreed... but it happened more with OS X than with Windows.

only because macos advances more rapidly than windows.

To some extent true... but also MS has a LOT of people using older software
and they do put a lot of effort into keeping it running. They also have not
moved CPU architectures to the extent Apple has... though the move to XP was
a big change from the 9x platform.

plenty of older apps didn't work with with win7 or win10.

third party software developers are the ones that need to fix their own
apps.

that's why apple, microsoft, google and others release developer
builds, so that developers can fix their apps *before* end users find
out the hard way.

True... and it is not the issue some make it to be, but I do not want to go
the other direction and pretend it is not an issue at all. It was more when
Apple was changing CPUs and moving from Classic Mac OS, so we are talking
some time ago.

even after apple changed cpus, old apps kept working without a hitch.

For some time.

apple went *well* out of their way so that legacy apps continued to
work.

Agreed.

developers had *years* to update their apps to be native.

True... but there are apps I do not want to have to pay for again. But I am
cheap. My old FM Pro no longer prints without crashing, but I could buy the
new one and use my old files just fine.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

In article , Snit
wrote:

When apple once again decides to drop support for existing third party
programs, as they have routinely done with new OSX versions, the users
can't
do absolutely nothing about that

more nonsense.

third parties support their own apps. it's no different on mac than any
other platform.

There are programs that stop working on updates. This is less of a
problem
than in the past, but I will agree it happens more on macOS than I would
like (or OS X in the past).

sometimes, and that's not specific to apple.

Agreed... but it happened more with OS X than with Windows.

only because macos advances more rapidly than windows.

To some extent true... but also MS has a LOT of people using older software
and they do put a lot of effort into keeping it running. They also have not
moved CPU architectures to the extent Apple has... though the move to XP was
a big change from the 9x platform.

microsoft is moving windows to arm, which is a very big change.

apple is likely to do the same thing.

plenty of older apps didn't work with with win7 or win10.

third party software developers are the ones that need to fix their own
apps.

that's why apple, microsoft, google and others release developer
builds, so that developers can fix their apps *before* end users find
out the hard way.

True... and it is not the issue some make it to be, but I do not want to go
the other direction and pretend it is not an issue at all. It was more when
Apple was changing CPUs and moving from Classic Mac OS, so we are talking
some time ago.

even after apple changed cpus, old apps kept working without a hitch.

For some time.

nothing lasts forever.

apple went *well* out of their way so that legacy apps continued to
work.

Agreed.

developers had *years* to update their apps to be native.

True... but there are apps I do not want to have to pay for again. But I am
cheap. My old FM Pro no longer prints without crashing, but I could buy the
new one and use my old files just fine.

that's your choice, not apple or filemaker.

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 08:21:24 -0700, Snit
wrote:

[snip]

What program do you think Apple or MS stops me from running? Be specific.

16-bit software on 64-bit Windows.

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

In article , Gene Wirchenko
wrote:

What program do you think Apple or MS stops me from running? Be specific.

16-bit software on 64-bit Windows.

they can still be run, just with minor additional hoops.

not that anyone actually wants to run 16 bit software anymore.

On 4/21/17, 10:26 AM, in article ,
"nospam" wrote:

In article , chrisv
wrote:

It's an example of the closed, unimaginative mindset so typical of a
Mac fan. He can't think of any reason why anyone would need more

He's referring to the freedom to choose your GUI as well as how the GUI
will function.

There's a hell of a lot more additional freedoms besides different
GUI's. I have no time, today, to educate those who don't consider it
a drawback to be controlled by a corporation.

nobody is being controlled by a corporation.


We can get into the larger conversation of our economy, but overall, of
course not. They offer a product and I decide to buy or not.


--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

On 4/21/17, 12:07 PM, in article ,
"nospam" wrote:

....
only because macos advances more rapidly than windows.

To some extent true... but also MS has a LOT of people using older software
and they do put a lot of effort into keeping it running. They also have not
moved CPU architectures to the extent Apple has... though the move to XP was
a big change from the 9x platform.

microsoft is moving windows to arm, which is a very big change.

Have not heard they are doing this. Even on the desktop?

....
developers had *years* to update their apps to be native.

True... but there are apps I do not want to have to pay for again. But I am
cheap. My old FM Pro no longer prints without crashing, but I could buy the
new one and use my old files just fine.

that's your choice, not apple or filemaker.

Fair enough... though like all consumers I would prefer a lower price. With
open source that is generally not a concern, so there is that advantage. But
there is also NOTHING in the open source world that is like FM Pro. It
really comes down if I decide the price is worth it.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

On 4/21/17, 12:13 PM, in article ,
"Gene Wirchenko" wrote:

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 08:21:24 -0700, Snit
wrote:

[snip]

What program do you think Apple or MS stops me from running? Be specific.

16-bit software on 64-bit Windows.

https://www.groovypost.com/howto/ena...pport-windows-
10/ OR https://gpo.st/4q5

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

On 4/21/17, 10:23 AM, in article ,
"chrisv" wrote:

slime wrote:

chrisv wrote:

It's an example of the closed, unimaginative mindset so typical of a
Mac fan. He can't think of any reason why anyone would need more

He's referring to the freedom to choose your GUI as well as how the GUI
will function.

There's a hell of a lot more additional freedoms besides different
GUI's. I have no time, today, to educate those who don't consider it
a drawback to be controlled by a corporation.

No time to make a point... because you have none other than you focus on
license more than productivity. I am OK with that and do not belittle you
for having that focus, but let us not pretend it is something other than
that.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

Snit wrote:
On 4/21/17, 12:13 PM, in article ,
"Gene Wirchenko" wrote:

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 08:21:24 -0700, Snit
wrote:

[snip]

What program do you think Apple or MS stops me from running? Be specific.
16-bit software on 64-bit Windows.

https://www.groovypost.com/howto/ena...pport-windows-
10/ OR https://gpo.st/4q5


And if you read the page carefully, it's 16-bit support only
on the 32-bit version of the OS. The subsystem should be missing
on the 64-bit version of Windows 10 (or other Windows for that
matter).

Tested on 15063.0 (Creator Edition)

After install, the 32-bit OS doesn't have NTVDM enabled.
The 64-bit OS has no NTVDM option at all.

https://s18.postimg.org/g8nj240x5/ntvdm_missing.gif

When a 16-bit test program is executed, the 32-bit OS
presents a dialog asking if you'd like NTVDM turned on.
The 64-bit delivers "Too bad, so sad".

https://s11.postimg.org/qjp6p14kj/nt..._installed.gif

Once NTVDM is enabled on 32-bit (no reboot), the 16-bit
program works under 32-bit.

https://s1.postimg.org/uuwkjs4pr/wor...with_ntvdm.gif

I didn't think any laws of physics had been repealed.
Microsoft on previous occasions has said, fixing the case
on the right (16 on 64) is "too hard" and they won't be doing it.

Paul

On 2017-04-21 3:19 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Gene Wirchenko
wrote:

What program do you think Apple or MS stops me from running? Be specific.

16-bit software on 64-bit Windows.

they can still be run, just with minor additional hoops.

not that anyone actually wants to run 16 bit software anymore.

It's actually fairly insane that anyone would want to run 16-bit
software on modern Windows unless they're gamers and want to play a
specific game from yesterday. In that case though, they're better off
running the game in a virtual session than hope that Microsoft will
allow them to do it natively.


--
Silver Slimer
OpenMedia & EFF Member
Gab.ai: @silverslimer

On 4/21/17, 2:40 PM, in article , "Silver
Slimer" wrote:

On 2017-04-21 3:19 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Gene Wirchenko
wrote:

What program do you think Apple or MS stops me from running? Be specific.

16-bit software on 64-bit Windows.

they can still be run, just with minor additional hoops.

not that anyone actually wants to run 16 bit software anymore.

It's actually fairly insane that anyone would want to run 16-bit
software on modern Windows unless they're gamers and want to play a
specific game from yesterday. In that case though, they're better off
running the game in a virtual session than hope that Microsoft will
allow them to do it natively.

Not many people want to run software that old but the fact most of it still
will run is actually pretty amazing.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308