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Adobe - The writing on the wall comes into view



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 31st 18, 02:43 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default Adobe - The writing on the wall comes into view

Interesting development for anyone who got
suckered into renting Adobe software. The next
update, according to a blog post, will apparently
only run on Win10 greater than v. 1607:

https://theblog.adobe.com/upcoming-c...ndows-and-mac/

In other words, you can keep renting. You just
won't get any of the new features you're paying for.

And if you quit then don't forget to first back
up all your work locally from that famous "free"
cloud storage, or you'll lose it.


Ads
  #2  
Old August 31st 18, 03:15 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.windows7.general
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Adobe - The writing on the wall comes into view

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

Interesting development for anyone who got
suckered into renting Adobe software. The next
update, according to a blog post, will apparently
only run on Win10 greater than v. 1607:


the update to 1803 is free and fixes a ****load of problems 1607 and
certainly 1511 had. there's no reason not to update.

https://theblog.adobe.com/upcoming-c...support-for-wi
ndows-and-mac/

In other words, you can keep renting. You just
won't get any of the new features you're paying for.


nonsense.

And if you quit then don't forget to first back
up all your work locally from that famous "free"
cloud storage, or you'll lose it.


also wrong.

*all* of your work is stored locally. storing in the cloud is
*optional* and is not intended to replace local storage.

it would help if you actually understood what you're criticizing.
  #3  
Old August 31st 18, 06:23 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.windows7.general
Neil
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Posts: 714
Default Adobe - The writing on the wall comes into view

On 8/31/2018 9:43 AM, Mayayana wrote:
Interesting development for anyone who got
suckered into renting Adobe software. The next
update, according to a blog post, will apparently
only run on Win10 greater than v. 1607:

https://theblog.adobe.com/upcoming-c...ndows-and-mac/

In other words, you can keep renting. You just
won't get any of the new features you're paying for.

And if you quit then don't forget to first back
up all your work locally from that famous "free"
cloud storage, or you'll lose it.


Your "analysis" is so wrong in many ways. Adobe CS is aimed at pro
users, a group that is unlikely to run outdated OS versions for many
reasons beyond Adobe software. Users who have computers that can't be
updated for whatever reason can continue to use the CS versions
compatible with their systems and it won't surprise them that they don't
get new features delivered to them. Users that store their work files
solely in anyone's cloud will eventually learn the errors of their ways.

--
best regards,

Neil
  #4  
Old August 31st 18, 06:57 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.windows7.general
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Adobe - The writing on the wall comes into view

In article , Neil
wrote:


Users that store their work files
solely in anyone's cloud will eventually learn the errors of their ways.


more accurately, solely in a single location.

however, given a choice, a one copy in the cloud is safer than a one
copy on a local hard drive.

ideally, always have multiple copies, with at least one offsite.
  #5  
Old August 31st 18, 08:17 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Adobe - The writing on the wall comes into view

"Neil" wrote

| Users who have computers that can't be
| updated for whatever reason can continue to use the CS versions
| compatible with their systems and it won't surprise them that they don't
| get new features delivered to them.
|

It won't surprise them that they no longer get
what they're paying for? Getting regular updates
is pretty much the only reason for rental software.

And about 1/2 of Windows users -- more business
users -- are on Win7.

| Users that store their work files solely in
| anyone's cloud will eventually learn the errors
| of their ways.

Yes. But why do you protest trying to save
them some pain? Do you think they should be
punished because they didn't know better?

The point is to let people know, in case some don't.
Many people using Adobe CC are not "pros" who get
their software paid for by someone else. (Visit the
digital image/photo groups to meet some. They're
mostly hobbyists.)

There's also no reason to assume all pros are using
the latest versions of all software. Pros know enough
to simply use the tool that works. Hobbyists are
actually more likely to be the ones who think they
always need to buy the latest tools. That's true in any
field. The hobbyists are more susceptible to marketing
because they don't know as much. People go to kitchen
stores and buy the latest, overpriced slicer-dicer. They
go to Home Depot and pay ridiculous prices for painter's
tape to mask windows.... It's not because pros use
those "tools". It's just marketing.

To clarify for those who may not know what we're
talking about: If you use Adobe CC it defaults to
saving your work on their server. If you then quit
CC (stop paying rent) you lose access to those files.
Thus, anyone using CC should always save copies
of work locally, in standard, non-lossy formats like
BMP/TIF or whatever RAW format might be used.


  #6  
Old August 31st 18, 08:19 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.windows7.general
Keith Nuttle
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Posts: 1,844
Default Adobe - The writing on the wall comes into view

On 8/31/2018 1:57 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Neil
wrote:


Users that store their work files
solely in anyone's cloud will eventually learn the errors of their ways.


more accurately, solely in a single location.

however, given a choice, a one copy in the cloud is safer than a one
copy on a local hard drive.

ideally, always have multiple copies, with at least one offsite.

Having only one copy where ever it stored is is insane.

--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre
  #7  
Old August 31st 18, 09:49 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.windows7.general
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Adobe - The writing on the wall comes into view

In article , Keith Nuttle
wrote:

Users that store their work files
solely in anyone's cloud will eventually learn the errors of their ways.


more accurately, solely in a single location.

however, given a choice, a one copy in the cloud is safer than a one
copy on a local hard drive.

ideally, always have multiple copies, with at least one offsite.

Having only one copy where ever it stored is is insane.


that's what i said.

the difference is that a cloud service isn't a single hard drive, but
rather multiple drives in multiple data centers, so the chance of
losing something in the cloud is much lower than a single drive in
someone's home or office.
  #8  
Old August 31st 18, 09:49 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.windows7.general
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Adobe - The writing on the wall comes into view

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| Users who have computers that can't be
| updated for whatever reason can continue to use the CS versions
| compatible with their systems and it won't surprise them that they don't
| get new features delivered to them.
|

It won't surprise them that they no longer get
what they're paying for? Getting regular updates
is pretty much the only reason for rental software.


another reason is because it's often less expensive, and in some cases,
can be bought on demand. some of adobe's plans are month to month.

And about 1/2 of Windows users -- more business
users -- are on Win7.


so what?

what matters is what adobe's customers are using, and adobe knows
exactly what that is.

what also matters is that the features adobe wants to offer can't be
done in win7.

| Users that store their work files solely in
| anyone's cloud will eventually learn the errors
| of their ways.

Yes. But why do you protest trying to save
them some pain? Do you think they should be
punished because they didn't know better?


nobody is being punished.

people are free to choose to use or not use the cloud, based on their
own needs, not what you think is best for them.

many people have one copy on a single hard drive. that's actually worse.

The point is to let people know, in case some don't.
Many people using Adobe CC are not "pros" who get
their software paid for by someone else. (Visit the
digital image/photo groups to meet some. They're
mostly hobbyists.)


hobbyists typically don't need much more beyond photoshop elements (and
actually, that is overkill for most people) which is $50ish street
price without any ongoing payments. it's also often bundled with a
camera or scanner or some other hardware device they bought, which
means they got it for free.

some users may want additional features beyond what's included in
elements, and if so, they can buy more advanced tools. their choice.

There's also no reason to assume all pros are using
the latest versions of all software. Pros know enough
to simply use the tool that works. Hobbyists are
actually more likely to be the ones who think they
always need to buy the latest tools. That's true in any
field. The hobbyists are more susceptible to marketing
because they don't know as much. People go to kitchen
stores and buy the latest, overpriced slicer-dicer. They
go to Home Depot and pay ridiculous prices for painter's
tape to mask windows.... It's not because pros use
those "tools". It's just marketing.


pros get the latest tools for many reasons, including to be more
productive as well as being able to produce higher quality work than
their competitors.

in other words, it pays for itself.

To clarify for those who may not know what we're
talking about: If you use Adobe CC it defaults to
saving your work on their server. If you then quit
CC (stop paying rent) you lose access to those files.


false.

using the cloud is *optional*, something you've been told many, many
times.

the only way they'd lose anything is if there was *only* one copy in
existence, kept is in adobe's cloud, no other copies anywhere else, and
couldn't be bothered to download it before canceling payments. in other
words, user error.

Thus, anyone using CC should always save copies
of work locally,


surprising as it may seem, that's what normally happens.

in standard, non-lossy formats like
BMP/TIF or whatever RAW format might be used.


better yet, use photoshop's native format, which many non-adobe apps
can read (and often write), or use a non-destructive workflow with raw,
which is what lightroom does, then export to whatever format is needed.

photoshop's format is also published, so anyone can write their own
apps to read and write photoshop files, should they be so inclined and
have the skills to do so (or the money to hire those who do).
  #9  
Old August 31st 18, 09:56 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Adobe - The writing on the wall comes into view

"Keith Nuttle" wrote

| ideally, always have multiple copies, with at least one offsite.
|
| Having only one copy where ever it stored is is insane.
|

Very common, though. I know a professional
photographer who had all of her photos stored
only on her Mac. The disk died. She had to pay
to have the files salvaged. I think that scenario
is far more common than not. (And Adobe know
that.)

These days a lot of hobbyists use "asset
management" software -- basically a "for dummies"
manager for the file system. And programs like
Adobe's often use "sidecar" files to store file
changes to an original copy, referring to edits
as metadata. All meant to help and to make things
easier, but making file management more challenging
in the long run. Even if you know about backup it
can get confusing if people don't really know
what and where their files are.

I have something similar to an asset manager in
Paint Shop Pro 16. I think of it as the dip**** tab.
I can choose to not open to that window by default,
but I can't turn it off. It wants to show me the images
I have on the computer. That started with Picasa.
Google recognized that many people took photos but
that most had no idea where their photos were. So
Picasa introduced a GUI that bypassed Explorer and
just presented "Look! Here's Your Pictures!" -- a
custom file manager that only showed image files
from anywhere on the computer.
Very handy for beginners, but making it all the more
diifficult for them to learn to actually access and
manage their own files directly. They not only need
to learn how to use Explorer. They have to learn that
Explorer, and a file system, exist.


  #10  
Old August 31st 18, 10:14 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.windows7.general
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Adobe - The writing on the wall comes into view

In article , Mayayana
wrote:


| ideally, always have multiple copies, with at least one offsite.
|
| Having only one copy where ever it stored is is insane.

Very common, though.


that is unfortunately, very true.

I know a professional
photographer who had all of her photos stored
only on her Mac. The disk died. She had to pay
to have the files salvaged. I think that scenario
is far more common than not. (And Adobe know
that.)


that's what can happen without a backup.

had she stored them in the cloud (adobe's or some other service), she
would not have lost anything. get a new computer (mac or windows,
doesn't matter), log in, and there they are.

These days a lot of hobbyists use "asset
management" software -- basically a "for dummies"
manager for the file system.


not only is it *not* for dummies, but it can do many things that are
impossible directly via the file system.

And programs like
Adobe's often use "sidecar" files to store file
changes to an original copy, referring to edits
as metadata.


a major reason is so that the original file is never altered. another
is for virtual copies.

All meant to help and to make things
easier, but making file management more challenging
in the long run. Even if you know about backup it
can get confusing if people don't really know
what and where their files are.


nonsense. it doesn't complicate backups at all.

there's actually *less* to back up because you don't have dozens of
interim versions every step of the way.

I have something similar to an asset manager in
Paint Shop Pro 16. I think of it as the dip**** tab.


you must use it a lot, then.

I can choose to not open to that window by default,
but I can't turn it off. It wants to show me the images
I have on the computer.


imagine that! being able to actually see the photos.

what will they think of next?
  #11  
Old September 1st 18, 12:49 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.windows7.general
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 911
Default Adobe - The writing on the wall comes into view

On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:17:14 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

"Neil" wrote

| Users who have computers that can't be
| updated for whatever reason can continue to use the CS versions
| compatible with their systems and it won't surprise them that they don't
| get new features delivered to them.
|

It won't surprise them that they no longer get
what they're paying for? Getting regular updates
is pretty much the only reason for rental software.


Not the only reason. With expensive software n o one welcomes the cost
of an occasional software update coming out of the blue. Having all
the updates at a uniform monthly charge takes away the pain. And it
may cost no more on the average. Also, from the vendors point of view,
it attracts new users who maybe would never sign up a onetime purchase
of several hundred dollars.

I found that over a period of time I spent more trying not to buy
Photoshop than I actually ended up paying for the monthly rental of
Adobe CC.

And about 1/2 of Windows users -- more business
users -- are on Win7.

| Users that store their work files solely in
| anyone's cloud will eventually learn the errors
| of their ways.

Yes. But why do you protest trying to save
them some pain? Do you think they should be
punished because they didn't know better?

The point is to let people know, in case some don't.
Many people using Adobe CC are not "pros" who get
their software paid for by someone else. (Visit the
digital image/photo groups to meet some. They're
mostly hobbyists.)

There's also no reason to assume all pros are using
the latest versions of all software. Pros know enough
to simply use the tool that works. Hobbyists are
actually more likely to be the ones who think they
always need to buy the latest tools. That's true in any
field. The hobbyists are more susceptible to marketing
because they don't know as much. People go to kitchen
stores and buy the latest, overpriced slicer-dicer. They
go to Home Depot and pay ridiculous prices for painter's
tape to mask windows.... It's not because pros use
those "tools". It's just marketing.

To clarify for those who may not know what we're
talking about: If you use Adobe CC it defaults to
saving your work on their server. If you then quit
CC (stop paying rent) you lose access to those files.
Thus, anyone using CC should always save copies
of work locally, in standard, non-lossy formats like
BMP/TIF or whatever RAW format might be used.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #12  
Old September 1st 18, 01:50 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.windows7.general
Mark Lloyd[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,756
Default Adobe - The writing on the wall comes into view

On 08/31/2018 12:57 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Neil
wrote:


Users that store their work files
solely in anyone's cloud will eventually learn the errors of their ways.


more accurately, solely in a single location.

however, given a choice, a one copy in the cloud is safer than a one
copy on a local hard drive.


I'd much rather have a single copy on my working hard drive than a
single copy at a remote location that I don't actually have access to
access to.

ideally, always have multiple copies, with at least one offsite.


Yes, and at least one onsite.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

sign at a travel agency "Welcome ... Please Go Away"
  #13  
Old September 1st 18, 02:11 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.windows7.general
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Adobe - The writing on the wall comes into view

In article , Mark Lloyd
wrote:

Users that store their work files
solely in anyone's cloud will eventually learn the errors of their ways.


more accurately, solely in a single location.

however, given a choice, a one copy in the cloud is safer than a one
copy on a local hard drive.


I'd much rather have a single copy on my working hard drive than a
single copy at a remote location that I don't actually have access to
access to.


you have access to it.

the difference is that a cloud service will have multiple redundant
copies in their data centers with multiple redundant data centers.

while not impossible (nothing is 100%), the chances that all copies in
all data centers are destroyed and the service itself disappears
without a trace is much less than the chance of your single hard drive
failing, or destroyed to fire or flood, or stolen.

ideally, always have multiple copies, with at least one offsite.


Yes, and at least one onsite.


yes, but again, if there is *only* one copy, it's safer in the cloud.

one copy is an incredibly bad idea, but unfortunately, it does happen.
  #14  
Old September 1st 18, 02:36 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.windows7.general
Neil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 714
Default Adobe - The writing on the wall comes into view

On 8/31/2018 3:17 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Neil" wrote

| Users who have computers that can't be
| updated for whatever reason can continue to use the CS versions
| compatible with their systems and it won't surprise them that they don't
| get new features delivered to them.
|

It won't surprise them that they no longer get
what they're paying for? Getting regular updates
is pretty much the only reason for rental software.

They are *not* paying for the _new features_ of software versions
incompatible with their computers.

And about 1/2 of Windows users -- more business
users -- are on Win7.

So what? Pro users of Adobe CC will find it more practical to stay
current because of the nature of the graphics business. It has always
been that way and I see no reason why it would change.

--
best regards,

Neil
  #15  
Old September 1st 18, 03:13 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-8,alt.windows7.general
David E. Ross[_2_]
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Posts: 1,035
Default Adobe - The writing on the wall comes into view

On 8/31/2018 6:11 PM, nospam wrote:
the difference is that a cloud service will have multiple redundant
copies in their data centers with multiple redundant data centers.

while not impossible (nothing is 100%), the chances that all copies in
all data centers are destroyed and the service itself disappears
without a trace is much less than the chance of your single hard drive
failing, or destroyed to fire or flood, or stolen.


Do you not remember what happened to Megaupload?

--
David E. Ross
http://www.rossde.com

Too often, Twitter is a source of verbal vomit. Examples include Donald
Trump, Roseanne Barr, and Elon Musk.
 




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