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#1
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do?
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#2
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc. -- Quote of the Week: "PLEASE tell your aardvark that I'm NOT an anthill!" --unknown Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / http://antfarm.ma.cx / /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit- | |o o| | ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and URL/link. \ _ / ( ) |
#3
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
Ant wrote:
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc. On WinXP, it could take 30 seconds to a minute, to unwind the page file. I wouldn't expect Vista+ to be that bad. ******* You could try running Sysinternals Procmon, start a trace, then stop the program in question, and see what events show up. Stop the trace, scroll back, and analyze. You never know what you might discover. Paul |
#4
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote
| When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? | I don't have any programs that lag in closing. But I don't have any games. I suppose they might have to save a lot of settings in case you want to continue where you left off. |
#5
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:17:48 +0100, Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-10-15 19:53, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? Unload and release RAM -- update indices Marking something as empty should be bloody fast. If I delete 5GB of files from my disk, it doesn't actually write 5GB of blanks. Unload and release disk space used for temp files -- update indices As above. Many games also write state data so that you start where you left off. That usually means rewriting temp files in a different location. Nope, I already saved the game. When I exited, it asked "do you want to save", so I said no. And that's just the obvious stuff. |
#6
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 02:54:11 +0100, Paul wrote:
Ant wrote: Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc. On WinXP, it could take 30 seconds to a minute, to unwind the page file. I wouldn't expect Vista+ to be that bad. I was using a computer with a small amount of RAM. ******* You could try running Sysinternals Procmon, start a trace, then stop the program in question, and see what events show up. Stop the trace, scroll back, and analyze. You never know what you might discover. **** programming I would guess. |
#7
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote:
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc. But stopping using those should be instant. Just mark them as empty. |
#8
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 03:00:58 +0100, Mayayana wrote:
"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote | When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? | I don't have any programs that lag in closing. But I don't have any games. I suppose they might have to save a lot of settings in case you want to continue where you left off. That would make sense, but I'd already saved the game and was asked if I wanted to when I clicked exit. |
#9
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
On 10/16/2018 7:53 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? You will have to read their source codes to find out.... they gotta have been waiting for something! -- @~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you! ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不*錢! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 不求神! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa |
#10
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:50:05 +0100, Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-10-16 09:38, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: [...] I was using a computer with a small amount of RAM. [...] Major clue! A small amount of RAM means a lot of paging (copying program and OS modules/data to the HDD, and copying them back into RAM as needed.) Closing the program requires some HDD activity, which is a hell of a lot slower than RAM. Would would it need to? The game was in RAM, now the RAM is marked as free, and it can load other programs back off the disk when it needs to. |
#11
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:56:54 +0100, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
On 10/16/2018 7:53 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? You will have to read their source codes to find out.... they gotta have been waiting for something! Some take ages, some don't, so someone writes ****ty code. |
#12
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:50:05 +0100, Wolf K wrote: On 2018-10-16 09:38, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: [...] I was using a computer with a small amount of RAM. [...] Major clue! A small amount of RAM means a lot of paging (copying program and OS modules/data to the HDD, and copying them back into RAM as needed.) Closing the program requires some HDD activity, which is a hell of a lot slower than RAM. Would would it need to? The game was in RAM, now the RAM is marked as free, and it can load other programs back off the disk when it needs to. On WinXP, the pagefile could become really fragmented. And when it unwound, it seemed to unwind in allocation order, and the disk head flew all over the place. There was no such thing back then, as sequentially unwinding the pagefile. That's why it took so long (and was so annoying). On Windows 10, the pagefile is hardly ever used. My attempts to abuse it with synthetic testing, didn't indicate it was all that interested in paging. But Windows 10 also has some egregious behavior, and I've reported a few lockups here caused by Microsoft supporting a few too many features at a time (a write cache combined with mountable VHDs leads to a trashed OS :-( - on a previous OS, a similar test yields a simple Delayed Write Failure and no drama). Windows 10 does run a Memory Compressor though. And I don't know if I have a good technical reference on what that's doing. All I can tell you is, the tighter the system is on memory, eventually the Memory Compressor is railed on one core doing *something*. Paul |
#13
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:17:48 +0100, Wolf K wrote: On 2018-10-15 19:53, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately?* What on earth has it to do? Unload* and release RAM -- update indices Marking something as empty should be bloody fast.* If I delete 5GB of files from my disk, it doesn't actually write 5GB of blanks. Unload and release disk space used for temp files -- update indices As above. Many games also write state data so that you start where you left off. That usually means rewriting temp files in a different location. Nope, I already saved the game.* When I exited, it asked "do you want to save", so I said no. And that's just the obvious stuff. Pull the power cord, that'll exit the game faster ;-) -- Take care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com |
#14
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:19:52 +0100, Paul wrote:
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:50:05 +0100, Wolf K wrote: On 2018-10-16 09:38, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: [...] I was using a computer with a small amount of RAM. [...] Major clue! A small amount of RAM means a lot of paging (copying program and OS modules/data to the HDD, and copying them back into RAM as needed.) Closing the program requires some HDD activity, which is a hell of a lot slower than RAM. Would would it need to? The game was in RAM, now the RAM is marked as free, and it can load other programs back off the disk when it needs to. On WinXP, the pagefile could become really fragmented. And when it unwound, it seemed to unwind in allocation order, and the disk head flew all over the place. There was no such thing back then, as sequentially unwinding the pagefile. That's why it took so long (and was so annoying). On Windows 10, the pagefile is hardly ever used. My attempts to abuse it with synthetic testing, didn't indicate it was all that interested in paging. But Windows 10 also has some egregious behavior, and I've reported a few lockups here caused by Microsoft supporting a few too many features at a time (a write cache combined with mountable VHDs leads to a trashed OS :-( - on a previous OS, a similar test yields a simple Delayed Write Failure and no drama). Windows 10 does run a Memory Compressor though. And I don't know if I have a good technical reference on what that's doing. All I can tell you is, the tighter the system is on memory, eventually the Memory Compressor is railed on one core doing *something*. No matter what of the above it was doing, none of it should have delayed closing the game or application. Possibly displaying another one that had been paged. For example, you load a huge piece of bloated software which takes up most of your RAM. Then you stop using that an hour later but leave it sat there doing nothing. You load another big one and use that for a while. Windows pages the first one to disk. When you stop the 2nd one and close it, it should close immediately, then take a while to display the first one if you try to use it, or load it in the background ready. |
#15
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote: Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc. But stopping using those should be instant. Just mark them as empty. It's not the resources that matter. It's how the resources are managed, and what side effects the management of the resources have, that causes the delayed response. I don't think Windows 10 is anywhere near as bad as WinXP for that. But on the other hand, Windows 10 isn't good from an architecture perspective, and when testing edge cases, there's a good chance you'll break something. Previous OSes seemed to handle resource exhaustion more elegantly than Windows 10 does. In a typical Windows 10 meltdown, the Task Manager can't be started or made to stop the problem, then the system locks up, black screens, or plays fiddle music using tiny violins. You have to be *really awake* to spot resource exhaustion in time. For example, if Storage Spaces is running, and warns you that C: is running out of disk, you might only have a matter of *seconds* to do something about it. Don't go out in the kitchen and make another cup of coffee, if you get a low space warning. You need your ninja control-alt-delete response instead. Paul |
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