Is there a way to revert to 7 after 30 days has expired?

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:06:22 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 15:19:06 -0000, Ken Blake wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 00:35:04 -0800, mike wrote:

On 1/29/2016 10:21 PM, ...winston? wrote:
Paul wrote:

Jesus, doesn't anyone make backups any more ? :-)

Paul
Did the majority ever ?

The way windows comes on the new PC, many people have no place
to put a backup, even if they wanted to.
Takes some planning and a modification of the partitions
to make backups quick and easy without buying external drives.


Anyone who backs up to an internal drive is playing with fire. The
only good ways to back up are to external devices or to the "cloud."
Backup to anything else leaves you susceptible to simultaneous loss of
the original and backup to many of the most common dangers: severe
power glitches, nearby lightning strikes, virus attacks, even theft of
the computer.

Or failure of the hard disk - the most common component to fail.


Yes, that's true if you are talking about a second partition on a
single drive. But note that that's not what I was talking about. I
said an "internal drive," not the same drive. I suppose I could have
made it clearer, but I meant a *second* internal drive.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 14:54:15 -0000, Ken Blake wrote:

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:06:22 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 15:19:06 -0000, Ken Blake wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 00:35:04 -0800, mike wrote:

On 1/29/2016 10:21 PM, ...winston? wrote:
Paul wrote:

Jesus, doesn't anyone make backups any more ? :-)

Did the majority ever ?

The way windows comes on the new PC, many people have no place
to put a backup, even if they wanted to.
Takes some planning and a modification of the partitions
to make backups quick and easy without buying external drives.

Anyone who backs up to an internal drive is playing with fire. The
only good ways to back up are to external devices or to the "cloud."
Backup to anything else leaves you susceptible to simultaneous loss of
the original and backup to many of the most common dangers: severe
power glitches, nearby lightning strikes, virus attacks, even theft of
the computer.

Or failure of the hard disk - the most common component to fail.

Yes, that's true if you are talking about a second partition on a
single drive. But note that that's not what I was talking about. I
said an "internal drive," not the same drive. I suppose I could have
made it clearer, but I meant a *second* internal drive.

When I saw "partition" I assumed the same drive. People were discussing shrinking the OS partition to make room for it. I still wouldn't trust a drive in the computer. A major OS ****up or virus or broken disk controller or something could wipe both disks. Theft of the computer or a fire would destroy both disks. Me doing something daft and erasing what I didn't mean to could delete both. I want my backups inaccessible during normal operation.

--
Why are there Marines on Navy ships?
Sheep would be too obvious.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 15:27:16 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 14:54:15 -0000, Ken Blake wrote:

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:06:22 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 15:19:06 -0000, Ken Blake wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 00:35:04 -0800, mike wrote:

On 1/29/2016 10:21 PM, ...winston? wrote:
Paul wrote:

Jesus, doesn't anyone make backups any more ? :-)

Did the majority ever ?

The way windows comes on the new PC, many people have no place
to put a backup, even if they wanted to.
Takes some planning and a modification of the partitions
to make backups quick and easy without buying external drives.

Anyone who backs up to an internal drive is playing with fire. The
only good ways to back up are to external devices or to the "cloud."
Backup to anything else leaves you susceptible to simultaneous loss of
the original and backup to many of the most common dangers: severe
power glitches, nearby lightning strikes, virus attacks, even theft of
the computer.

Or failure of the hard disk - the most common component to fail.

Yes, that's true if you are talking about a second partition on a
single drive. But note that that's not what I was talking about. I
said an "internal drive," not the same drive. I suppose I could have
made it clearer, but I meant a *second* internal drive.

When I saw "partition" I assumed the same drive.


I didn't say "partition," but as I said, I could have been clearer


People were discussing shrinking the OS partition to make room for it.
I still wouldn't trust a drive in the computer.


Nor would I.


A major OS ****up or virus or broken disk controller or something could
wipe both disks. Theft of the computer or a fire would destroy both
disks. Me doing something daft and erasing what I didn't mean to could
delete both. I want my backups inaccessible during normal operation.


Yes. You're essentially repeating what I said in the message you
replied to.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 15:37:43 -0000, Ken Blake wrote:

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 15:27:16 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 14:54:15 -0000, Ken Blake wrote:

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:06:22 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 15:19:06 -0000, Ken Blake wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 00:35:04 -0800, mike wrote:

On 1/29/2016 10:21 PM, ...winston? wrote:
Paul wrote:

Jesus, doesn't anyone make backups any more ? :-)

Did the majority ever ?

The way windows comes on the new PC, many people have no place
to put a backup, even if they wanted to.
Takes some planning and a modification of the partitions
to make backups quick and easy without buying external drives.

Anyone who backs up to an internal drive is playing with fire. The
only good ways to back up are to external devices or to the "cloud."
Backup to anything else leaves you susceptible to simultaneous loss of
the original and backup to many of the most common dangers: severe
power glitches, nearby lightning strikes, virus attacks, even theft of
the computer.

Or failure of the hard disk - the most common component to fail.

Yes, that's true if you are talking about a second partition on a
single drive. But note that that's not what I was talking about. I
said an "internal drive," not the same drive. I suppose I could have
made it clearer, but I meant a *second* internal drive.

When I saw "partition" I assumed the same drive.

I didn't say "partition," but as I said, I could have been clearer

Somebody did.

People were discussing shrinking the OS partition to make room for it.
I still wouldn't trust a drive in the computer.

Nor would I.

A major OS ****up or virus or broken disk controller or something could
wipe both disks. Theft of the computer or a fire would destroy both
disks. Me doing something daft and erasing what I didn't mean to could
delete both. I want my backups inaccessible during normal operation.

Yes. You're essentially repeating what I said in the message you
replied to.

--
Isn't Disney World a people trap operated by a mouse?

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 15:27:16 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

When I saw "partition" I assumed the same drive. People were discussing shrinking the OS partition to make room for it. I still wouldn't trust a drive in the computer. A major OS ****up or virus or broken disk controller or something could wipe both disks. Theft of the computer or a fire would destroy both disks. Me doing something daft and erasing what I didn't mean to could delete both. I want my backups inaccessible during normal operation.

You would be fairly safe with a backup in another location. It's quite
easy these days if you own a secure website. I'm running a monthly
backup now to one of my sites. It took two hours to make enough space
and the backup has been running for eight hours. A few more hours and
it's complete.

My main PC is in England and my backup site is in America so we would
have to have a very serious disaster to lose the both copies.

Steve

--
Neural Network Software for Windows http://www.npsnn.com

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 16:08:12 -0000, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 15:27:16 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

When I saw "partition" I assumed the same drive. People were discussing shrinking the OS partition to make room for it. I still wouldn't trust a drive in the computer. A major OS ****up or virus or broken disk controller or something could wipe both disks. Theft of the computer or a fire would destroy both disks. Me doing something daft and erasing what I didn't mean to could delete both. I want my backups inaccessible during normal operation.

You would be fairly safe with a backup in another location. It's quite
easy these days if you own a secure website.

My home PC is backed up to removable drives kept on the opposite side of the house. 3TB is a bit much to store online! Anyway, secure isn't secure unless you own the building it's in.

I'm running a monthly
backup now to one of my sites. It took two hours to make enough space
and the backup has been running for eight hours. A few more hours and
it's complete.

My main PC is in England and my backup site is in America so we would
have to have a very serious disaster to lose the both copies.

In the event of global thermonuclear war, the last thing you'll care about is your data.

--
Why is there no Disneyland in China?
No one's tall enough to go on the good rides.

On 01/29/2016 07:41 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote on 2016/01/29:

Big Bad Bob wrote:

T so wittily quipped:

I have a customer that waited to long to call me after
he upgraded his 7 to 10. (He claims he did not request that,
but...)

Is there any way to revert back to 7 after the 30 days
expires without wiping and reinstalling?

the rumors I hear are a) clean install, b) phone activation

Bummer! Fortunately he has his w7 disk and oem sticker Thank you anyway.

So this self-professed

You are usually not this crabby. (Actually you are like a human
computer encyclopedia -- you knowledge is incredible). Is
everything okay with you? Is your health okay? (There is
an endless mild cold going around these parts that are making
a bunch of us crabby -- but not me.)

sysadmin didn't bother to read the manual to
follow the instructions on how to create factory-restore CDs from the
hidden hard disk partition. This user now gets to call the OEM and pay
a fee to have restore CDs postal mailed to him.

Apparently you missed the significance of what I said. He
has the disk and his oem sticker.

I sold him this computer. I do not do the restore partition as
I find it foolish -- sort of like using one of your four
car tires as your spare tire.

Instead, I provide the OEM install CD and a special disk of
drivers with there special drivers and software on it.
I can do a ANYTHING with the two disks you can do with
the restore partition PLUS restore a defective hard drive,
which you can not do from a restore partition PLUS the
disks DON'T GET INFECTED as does restore partitions.

I also affix (as directed by Microsoft) the oem sticker
on the computer's case. And I copy the key to the
drivers disk I make up.

And I keep a copy of the drivers disk too.

To me, the only reason for those restore partition is
the shave cost and collects fees to make up disks.

Came across a bunch of HP (from hell) computers where
all the hard drives failed one month after the 1 yr
warranty expired. For a fee, HP would make up a recovery
disk, but it had to be serialized to a replacement
drive that they only could provide.

I sold the customer new hard drives and a W7 Pro
disks, plus made labor reinstalling everything.
Used Linux Live CD to download drivers from HP's
web site. Made them up a drivers disk too.

-T

On 01/29/2016 07:39 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote on 2016/01/29:

I have a customer that waited to long to call me after he upgraded his
7 to 10. (He claims he did not request that, but...)

Tell your customer that if he/she is going to assume the role of
sysadmin that they should be reviewing EACH update BEFORE installing it.
Turn off automatic updating and look at each update offered.

Is there any way to revert back to 7 after the 30 days expires without
wiping and reinstalling?

Sure. Have this sysadmin-assuming user restore from one of the backup
images that were saved before making major changes in either hardware or
software.

Yeah, I know, you have an ignorant user playing sysadmin who has nowhere
near that expertise. Tell them to start digging for the Windows 7
installation media to do a fresh install of Windows 7 (followed by the
many hours of updates, application installs, and all configuration or
tweak changes). However, before they start all that, have them start
saving their data files onto removable media.

Maybe getting burned with having to escape route will teach them the
value of having regularly scheduled backups. They should even be doing
that with the Windows 7 fresh install so they have an image of plain
Windows 7, Windows 7 after all the updates, Windows 7 plus all apps, and
Windows 7 plus apps plus config changes plus data files. Start their
backup training with the fresh install of Windows 7.


Right now he is in the saving money mode. He just wants certain
features fixed and will hold his nose on everything else.

On 01/31/2016 04:03 PM, T wrote:
On 01/29/2016 07:39 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote on 2016/01/29:

I have a customer that waited to long to call me after he upgraded his
7 to 10. (He claims he did not request that, but...)

Tell your customer that if he/she is going to assume the role of
sysadmin that they should be reviewing EACH update BEFORE installing it.
Turn off automatic updating and look at each update offered.

Is there any way to revert back to 7 after the 30 days expires without
wiping and reinstalling?

Sure. Have this sysadmin-assuming user restore from one of the backup
images that were saved before making major changes in either hardware or
software.

Yeah, I know, you have an ignorant user playing sysadmin who has nowhere
near that expertise. Tell them to start digging for the Windows 7
installation media to do a fresh install of Windows 7 (followed by the
many hours of updates, application installs, and all configuration or
tweak changes). However, before they start all that, have them start
saving their data files onto removable media.

Maybe getting burned with having to escape route will teach them the
value of having regularly scheduled backups. They should even be doing
that with the Windows 7 fresh install so they have an image of plain
Windows 7, Windows 7 after all the updates, Windows 7 plus all apps, and
Windows 7 plus apps plus config changes plus data files. Start their
backup training with the fresh install of Windows 7.


Right now he is in the saving money mode. He just wants certain
features fixed and will hold his nose on everything else.

He didn't even realize he had been upgraded to 10.

On 01/30/2016 04:05 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 03:39:41 -0000, VanguardLH wrote:

T wrote on 2016/01/29:

I have a customer that waited to long to call me after he upgraded his
7 to 10. (He claims he did not request that, but...)

Tell your customer that if he/she is going to assume the role of
sysadmin that they should be reviewing EACH update BEFORE installing it.
Turn off automatic updating and look at each update offered.

Why do you call a user who says "yes" to a prompt a "sysadmin"?


And M$ is being real tricky about it too. They do
not explain that a lot of your programs won't work
and that your living room will look like someone
broke in and re-arranged your furniture (and hid
some of it too).

M$ wants the revenue it thinks it will get from the
M$ Store. M$ is the least customer friendly company
I have ever had the misfortune to behold.

I wonder if there will be a class action suit over
this?

On Mon, 01 Feb 2016 00:07:33 -0000, T wrote:

On 01/30/2016 04:05 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 03:39:41 -0000, VanguardLH wrote:

T wrote on 2016/01/29:

I have a customer that waited to long to call me after he upgraded his
7 to 10. (He claims he did not request that, but...)

Tell your customer that if he/she is going to assume the role of
sysadmin that they should be reviewing EACH update BEFORE installing it.
Turn off automatic updating and look at each update offered.

Why do you call a user who says "yes" to a prompt a "sysadmin"?

And M$ is being real tricky about it too. They do
not explain that a lot of your programs won't work

Not my experience. All my programs work.

and that your living room will look like someone
broke in and re-arranged your furniture (and hid
some of it too).

More like someone painted a wall. No big deal.

M$ wants the revenue it thinks it will get from the
M$ Store.

I don't even know what M$ Store is or how I would access it or what I could buy there....

M$ is the least customer friendly company
I have ever had the misfortune to behold.

They've never annoyed me once.

I wonder if there will be a class action suit over
this?

Are you an American by any chance? Do grow up there's a good yank.

--
A patient tells the Doctor, "I've been going to a faith healer, but wasn't getting any better."
The Doctor smiled and said, "And what dumb advice did this phony give you?"
"He told me to come see you." replied the new patient.

On 01/29/2016 10:21 PM, ...winston‫ wrote:
Paul wrote:
T wrote:
Hi All,

I have a customer that waited to long to call me after
he upgraded his 7 to 10. (He claims he did not request that,
but...)

Is there any way to revert back to 7 after the 30 days
expires without wiping and reinstalling?

Many thanks,
-T

Jesus, doesn't anyone make backups any more ? :-)

Paul
Did the majority ever ?


When I try to sell customers Backup Power Supplies and
Data Backup, I often get treated like I am being dishonest.
So, I usually keep my mouth shut these days.

I won't warrant a new computer without a UPS and
that causes some sparks, but ...

On 01/31/2016 04:09 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
And M$ is being real tricky about it too. They do
not explain that a lot of your programs won't work

Not my experience. All my programs work.

You must be a limited usage home user.

The first thing I usually notice is that Firefox can
not connect to the Internet.

Then any specialty software need a new version purchased,
if it is even available. This hits business especially
hard.

Also, my experience is going to be vastly different than
you as I only get called when things go wrong. It's a
living.

If you have specialty software, it is the better part of
wisdom to call them all first and ask if it runs
with Frankenstein and Sons (W-8 and W-Nein, oops, W-10).
And consider a full wipe and reinstall to 10.

On 01/30/2016 08:16 AM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2016-01-30 10:49, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
[...]
My worst backup disaster was backing up a mainframe distributed system
which was faulty!
[...]

"You can't win. You can't break even. You can't get out of the game."

FWIW, I back up data only, including registration keys etc, to external
drives (NB the plural). If the OS hoses, I'll do a clean install.

Have a good day,


1+

I find that to be best method with Windows too, as there are just
too many things that won't either backup and/or restore properly.

Linux is easy to do a full restore from backup and I have done
so several times. Linux I do full backups on. But it is a different
technology.

Also with Windows, doing a clean install does remove a lot of
the "sins of the past" and makes for a better performing machine.

On 01/30/2016 03:58 PM, The Left Hand of The Continuum wrote:
All very true.
Back up thrice: one to keep live, one to detach from your machine and
to keep in a safe place (which you will promptly forget the location
of especially if you ever need it) and one offsite, preferably out of
the country but most of us would have to make do with keeping it at
work or with a friend, relative or neighbour.
I wonder how many do that?
LH.


You can never have too much backup!