WinXP user bought first desktop Win7 - Win10 Pro

mechanic wrote in :

Just get on with the job.

That's what I said!

The hard work is over which was to make sure I didn't do something stupid
and waste by accident the existing windows or the existing MS Office.

My plan is simple:
1. Obtain full offline hard media for:
a. Windows 10 Professional (x64
b. Office Professional 2007

2. Play with the existing interface, changing ANYTHING I want because it's
a sacrificial installation at this point.

The main goal in step 2 is to learn how to CONTROL the operating system so
that it puts files only where I want those files to be put, and so that it
never contacts the Internet for anything unless I want it to contact the
Internet.

3. Once I learn how to create a clean user whose operating system and apps
never phone home, then I will wipe it all out to do a clean install.

Paul wrote in news
It seems pretty strange to "jack" a copy of Ultimate,
when there is Home Premium already present. It's more likely
to be a wealthy owner who thinks there are a great
many "boutique" apps with the Ultimate version, for
it to matter. Microsoft didn't "care" about the Ultimate
version, for that long.

You are correct on the previous owner being wealthy, where this was just
one of a bunch of machines she was trying to give to a new home.

I don't even know (nor care) about the difference between
a. Windows 7 Home Prem OA
b. Windows 7 Ultimate retail

Nor do I even know what I get from it now being:
c. Windows 10 Professional (x64)

To me, that's just "windows 10", is it not?
I mean, essentially, what's the "pro" get me that I care about?

Especially if the machine still has the 14GB or so,
recovery partition. The version change could not be
explained by loss of the hard drive, requiring an
unprepared owner to have to reinstall (jacking a copy
of Ultimate in the process). If you see the OEM
recovery partition, then that could have been used
to put the original OS back.

I'll look for the recovery partition.
I guess I'll see that recovery partition in the device manager?

Ultimate also allows more system memory to be installed,
but usually Pro is enough. My Test Machine, I had to buy
Win7 Pro, just for the "memory license" :-( On more
modern OSes, the memory license on 64-bit is now large
enough, to no longer have to worry as much. For example,
Win10 Home allows 128GB, which covers reasonable sized
desktops (a 2011V3 with max sized DIMMs).

This machine says it comes with 8GB on the stickers but it happens to have
16GB (all four slots are full) so the owner upgraded it at some point.

Bill wrote in :

This is why I queried how the machine with a Windows 7 Home key on its
Microsoft COA came to be upgraded foc to Windows 10 Pro.

Thank you for noticing that because none of it would have been obvious to
me.

An upgrade from W7 Ultimate would explain that. The question then
becomes " Was the W7 Ultimate some dodgy hacked version?".

I don't know the answer but it seems clearer from what you've noted that
the machine started life as "Windows 7 Home Prem OA" and at some point was
upgraded to "Windows 7 Ultimate retail" and then, probably in January of
2016 was upgraded to "Windows 10 Professional".

The question then migrates to whether Microsoft might in the future
detect something in this installation that makes the W10 activation
invalid.

I have no idea whether this is my paranoia, but someone else may have an
opinion.

If it were me, I'd make a list of all the registration keys and keep
them safe just in case.

That's exactly what I'm doing!
Thanks.
The Belarc Advisor was the best but ShowKeysPlus was ok.
The Magic Jellybean Keyfinder was the least useful of the three.

As you have found, the IE key is the same as the Windows 7 key in use at
the time when the machine was upgraded to Windows 10.

This is a great trick to know.


At the moment, I have 3 laptops running, One XP, one Windows 7 that I'm
typing on and one Windows 10.

There are three main reasons that I dislike Windows 10.

1. A lot of Microsoft programs feature scroll bars that disappear from
beneath the cursor if I stop to think.
2. The whole W10 installation is forcibly replaced every few months when
new editions appear.
3. Updates, including those in 2., forcibly replace drivers. Some of my
machines require specially selected drivers to operate correctly.

These, and other W10 foibles, might, I suspect, cause the OP to wish to
revert to a more XP-like OS. Hence the reason for keeping lists of all
the codes he or she can find.

There was nothing wrong with Window XP user interface.
I suspect Microsoft had two problems:
1. Most people can't find their stuff no matter what interface exists
2. Microsoft needed to call it "new" to charge money for it so they had to
change "something" and what better something than the entire look and feel.

Removing the start menu is a first indication of the fact that Microsoft
wants us to use the abomination they replaced it with.

It will take a LOT of getting used to, but I'll get there.
The hard part is that I don't want ANYTHING phoning home ever, unless I
tell it to, and that means I only want to be on the net manually.

Right now it's off the net, so that's not a problem though.

John & Jane Doe wrote in news
To me, that's just "windows 10", is it not?
I mean, essentially, what's the "pro" get me that I care about?

Nevermind. Googling shows that this question has been asked and answered a
billion times already.

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/feature/w...-10-s-3618710/

a. I can join a domain (don't care to though)
b. I can use bitlocker (don't even know what it is but probably don't care)
c. It has "group policy management (can't see that I'll need that)
d. It has remote desktop (gotta turn that one off quick!)
e. It has hyper-V (huh?)
f. It has assigned access (double huh?)
g. It has enterprise mode IE (I'm never gonna ever use IE or Edge)
h. It has Windows store for business (huh? All my stuff is free)
i. It has trusted boot (whatever that is)
j. It has Windows update for business (can't see that it matters)
k. It supports 2TB of RAM (OMG, I didn't even think 2TB was feasible)

So, it's pretty clear, I don't need the "pro" version.
(I know you could have told me that - but now I know for myself.)

John & Jane Doe wrote in news
So, it's pretty clear, I don't need the "pro" version.

On second thought, it's nice that I can permanently defer OS updates, as
that is probably going to help me stay in control.

Also the hyperv turns out to be a built-in VM machine (I think), which is
something I've always wanted to do for safety on teh web.

Basically I have always wanted to easily start a VM (I've never set one up)
and then inside that VM I can browse the internet safely, and then when I
kill the VM, everything is gone including my "identity" on that vm.

I can even run WinXP if I want, apparently, in that hyperv VM space.

As for bitlocker, I don't see what it has over truecrypt (well, veracrypt
anyway).

John & Jane Doe wrote:

never contacts the Internet

That's not the Windows 10 I know.

It does whatever it feels like. The HOSTS file
cannot block the OS communications. It even has
hard-wired IP addresses, so if DNS is not working,
it can still "Call Home".

The only way to ensure nothing leaves the PC,
is to pull the network cable out of the wall.

Some of the older OSes come closer to your objective.

Paul

John & Jane Doe wrote:
John & Jane Doe wrote in news
So, it's pretty clear, I don't need the "pro" version.

On second thought, it's nice that I can permanently defer OS updates, as
that is probably going to help me stay in control.

Also the hyperv turns out to be a built-in VM machine (I think), which is
something I've always wanted to do for safety on teh web.

Basically I have always wanted to easily start a VM (I've never set one up)
and then inside that VM I can browse the internet safely, and then when I
kill the VM, everything is gone including my "identity" on that vm.

I can even run WinXP if I want, apparently, in that hyperv VM space.

As for bitlocker, I don't see what it has over truecrypt (well, veracrypt
anyway).

Hyper-V can only be installed (via Programs and Features : Windows Features)
if the desktop machine has SLAT/EPT on the CPU.

SLAT - Second Level Address Translation
EPT - Extended Page Table

Now, your machine may be fancy enough, to have SLAT/EPT in hardware.
Microsoft made that a requirement, so games would play faster
on the host, if the VM stuff was installed. For example, on
server computers, the Hyper-V on there doesn't need SLAT/EPT.
And if games play slower on a server, well, you're not supposed
to be gaming on a Server OS SKU.

I have a machine with SLAT/EPT, and I run VirtualBox instead.
That does what I need.

And deferring updates, or modifying things via GPEDIT, is
a good reason to have Pro. Since your machine has the
Digital Entitlement already generated, just... enjoy
your clean install of Win10 Pro. 64-bit, if you have
16GB of RAM and expect to use it. The 32-bit Win10 would
allow the usage of 16-bit programs, but you'd also
be restricted on RAM usage.

And as far as I know, a couple of VM hosting softwares,
allow running 64-bit guests on a 32-bit host OS. But
if you're running VMs, it would be silly to throw
away the 16GB of RAM. 16GB is about the sweet spot
for modern processors. More than that, is a bit on
the slow side, if it actually gets used.

Barring a need to run vintage 16-bit games, the
64-bit Win10 Pro is the best choice to get the
max usage from the hardware.

Paul

On Fri, 5 May 2017 23:37:23 +0100, "David B."
wrote:

On 05/05/2017 22:58, John & Jane Doe wrote:
David B. wrote in :

REDACT - who taught you that word?!!!

Origin and Etymology of redact
Middle English, from Latin redactus, past participle of redigere

First Known Use: 15th century
1350-1400; Middle English Latin redàctus (past participle of redigere to
lead back), equivalent to red- red- + àctus, past participle of agere to
lead;


I repeat: *Who taught YOU that word*?!!!

What does that have to do with the thread ?
Not STALKING again, I hope ?
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

Paul wrote in news
never contacts the Internet

That's not the Windows 10 I know.

Some of the older OSes come closer to your objective.

I think I had good control of what Windows XP did since my objectives were
consistent organization of data files.

My basic rules are so simple as to be undeniably obvious:
1. No program should connect to the net without me wanting it to
2. No program should poop in the organized adult bathroom
a. That means the start menu hierarchy remains clean
b. And my c:\my_files hierarchy remains clean
3. Every program should put data I care about where I want it to be
c. That means that the defaults were set to the adult bathroom

Windows 10 will be a challenge to make it use the adult bathroom instead of
making a mess like a kid's bathroom with no consistent organization to
anything.

It does whatever it feels like.

That's how the kids treat the kid's bathroom, with toilet paper on the
floor, toothepaste in the sink, clothes in the bathtub, wet towels lying
about, mouthwash bottles uncapped, hairbrushes with hair everywhere!

I will ensure that Microsoft Windows 10 Pro will behave - but it will take
time for me to understand all the childish things it does.

The HOSTS file
cannot block the OS communications.

OMG. Since when does that happen?

I have been using the MVP Hosts File since before the beginning of time!
It's something like 50 thousand lines long by now because I have been
adding to it, and even using it on Android (along with adaware software).

I use the same hosts file on all my devices but my iOS devices because
they're not jailbroken.

How can the OS go around the hosts file?
127.0.0.1 amything.microsoft.com

It even has
hard-wired IP addresses, so if DNS is not working,
it can still "Call Home".

If it respects the hosts file, then hardwired IP addresses should be easy
to block but if it doesn't respect the hosts file - then what can we do?

Can Acrylic DNS get around that?

The only way to ensure nothing leaves the PC,
is to pull the network cable out of the wall.

I have never seen such a thing.
Are you sure there is no solution to Microsoft phoning home?

Paul wrote in news
I have a machine with SLAT/EPT, and I run VirtualBox instead.
That does what I need.

I understand what you're saying, so, if I finally run my first VM (I've
always wanted to do it) I will go the conventional method:
1. VirtualBox
2. Linux (probably Ubuntu with KDE)

And deferring updates, or modifying things via GPEDIT, is
a good reason to have Pro. Since your machine has the
Digital Entitlement already generated, just... enjoy
your clean install of Win10 Pro. 64-bit, if you have
16GB of RAM and expect to use it.

This machine has 16GB of RAM but my Windows XP machine has 1GB of RAM and
it only max's out when I use the web browser nowadays.

The 32-bit Win10 would
allow the usage of 16-bit programs, but you'd also
be restricted on RAM usage.

I'm confused by your statement because I always assumed that 32-bit
programs (which most of mine are) work fine on a 64-bit operating system.

Barring a need to run vintage 16-bit games, the
64-bit Win10 Pro is the best choice to get the
max usage from the hardware.

Thanks for the advice to go 64bit Windows 10 Pro which is my plan.
I don't do any "gaming" but I do have plenty of 16 bit programs like IZArc,
Irfanview, CCleaner, MS Paint, Dialog, Chrome, Firefox, Audacity, Gimp,
Super, Windows Media Player Classic, Veracrypt, etc.

On 5/5/2017 8:00 AM, John & Jane Doe wrote:
. . .winston wrote in news
Since I'm going to keep the new desktop off the net until I put fresh
software on it, and since the magical jelly bean software pulled the keys
out of the Windows 10 registry, can I now use that link on WinXP to
download the full MS Windows 10 and Office 2007 installers and to burn each one to a DVD?

Windows 10 - Yes
Office 2007 - Maybe
(https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...ownload/office) - you'll need a
valid product key to download 2007. Note: Support for 2007 ends in 2017.

That answer is confusing because originally I only wanted to preserve the
Windows 10 Pro license, which you have assured me will likely be preserved.

Until I ran that Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder, I didn't even realize the
desktop came with an existing license for "Microsoft Office Professional
2007", which is the second thing that would be nice to preserve.
https://s18.postimg.org/o8zikixi1/key_msoffice.jpg

When you say I need a "valid product key" to download it from Microsoft, is
that valid product key listed in the photograph above?

It's confusing when I go here from Windows XP:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...load/windows10
"You've been routed to this page because the operating system you're
using won't support the Windows 10 media creation tool and we want to make
sure you can download Windows 10."

Accessing that page from XP will only provide the option to download an ISO.

I am familiar with the process of downloading an ISO onto Windows XP and
then burning that ISO to a DVD or CD using ImgBurn, so that is the simplest
thing. I don't think I want to learn all about a "media creation tool" when
I'm only going to be doing this once, so, I prefer to keep it simple.

If you access the page from Win7/8/10 you'll be given the option to
download the Media Creation Tool to create media(USB or DVD) for Windows 10.

It would be best if I can just burn a simple ISO file and then I can put
that ISO disc in a safe place to use in the future if necessary to do a
clean re-install of Windows 10 Pro.

If you use XP and download the iso, you will need to create Windows media
from the iso(using Windows 10 or other media creation software e.g. Rufus).

Oh. That's bad news. I think. Why do they make things so un-obvious.

I'm used to XP media which is just a disc that you can install the software
off of and that software will work if you have an XP key.

This "media creation tool" is confusing, so may I ask clarifying questions?

1. I have an XP machine on the Internet.
2. I have this Windows 10 Pro machine that 'can' be put on the Internet.
3. What do you suggest if what I want is the *simplest* form of DVD media?

Do you recommend I download the Windows 10 Pro ISO onto WinXP and then
create whatever that "media creation" is using "Rufus"?

Or do you recommend I give up on doing anything from Windows XP and just do
it all from the new Windows 10 Pro machine?
Since your existing W10 is working I'd go ahead and do it all from that
PC. It should be able to burn the ISO file or even put the update onto
a Flash drive for you. As for the old version of Office 2007 I would
personally ignore it and do a completely fresh install of
W10. Run the media creation tool while on the W10 machine and just
follow the instructions.

As for a word processor and such I would suggest the free version of
LibreOffice. Free and actively being supported as well as being able to
open existing Windows Office files if needed.

John & Jane Doe wrote:


I'm confused by your statement because I always assumed that 32-bit
programs (which most of mine are) work fine on a 64-bit operating system.

64-bit OS - runs 64-bit and 32-bit programs
- there are two Program Files folders for them

32-bit OS - runs 32-bit and 16-bit programs
- there is one Program Files folder

The WOW (Windows On Windows) subsystem, provides backward
compatibility for the "next-down bitness". Microsoft
made the decision, to not support 16-bit programs on
64-bit Windows. Technically, there might have been
a way to do WOW on WOW, but Microsoft didn't want to
have to extend the test matrix to prove it all works.
Microsoft is supposed to have a department doing
application compatibility testing, and the more
features they add, the more work those people have
to do.

If you really want to use a significant number of
16-bit programs, all day long, then you probably
want the 32-bit OS installation. There are some people
who play old games all day long, and that's the option
for them.

Meanwhile, on the Creator Edition, my copy of CPUZ
no longer works. Even if Run As Administrator, it
no longer seems to have access to hardware. It's
unclear who is going to fix that, the author of it
or AppCompat.

Paul

On 5/6/2017 10:00 PM, Paul wrote:
John & Jane Doe wrote:


I'm confused by your statement because I always assumed that 32-bit
programs (which most of mine are) work fine on a 64-bit operating system.

64-bit OS - runs 64-bit and 32-bit programs
- there are two Program Files folders for them

32-bit OS - runs 32-bit and 16-bit programs
- there is one Program Files folder

The WOW (Windows On Windows) subsystem, provides backward
compatibility for the "next-down bitness". Microsoft
made the decision, to not support 16-bit programs on
64-bit Windows. Technically, there might have been
a way to do WOW on WOW, but Microsoft didn't want to
have to extend the test matrix to prove it all works.
Microsoft is supposed to have a department doing
application compatibility testing, and the more
features they add, the more work those people have
to do.

If you really want to use a significant number of
16-bit programs, all day long, then you probably
want the 32-bit OS installation. There are some people
who play old games all day long, and that's the option
for them.

Meanwhile, on the Creator Edition, my copy of CPUZ
no longer works. Even if Run As Administrator, it
no longer seems to have access to hardware. It's
unclear who is going to fix that, the author of it
or AppCompat.

Paul

Hi Paul, Read your post and noted That CPUZ is not working on your
Creator Win 10, Just ran my Version 1.77 64 bit and it is running OK.
A new version was available, 1.79 64 bit, so I downloaded and installed
it and it runs fine also.
HTH

Rene

GlowingBlueMist wrote in news
As for a word processor and such I would suggest the free version of
LibreOffice. Free and actively being supported as well as being able to
open existing Windows Office files if needed.

I've used all the freebie office look alikes.

1. They work just fine for creation.
2. They work less fine for reading what others created.
3. And they don't work at all for passing things back and forth.

Sure, simple stuff works but if you've ever tried to communicate with
people using microsoft office documents with any fancy stuff in them, none
of the free tools renders things the same (number 2 above), but usually the
data is there.

It's in number 3 above where the failure is rampant.
So, while I don't like it, the only software I own that is store bought is
the Microsoft Office software.

Even that, I am using an old 2007 version which I have had for so long on
the WinXP machine that I don't even remember where the license came from (I
think it was a corporate license but I don't even remember).

Paul wrote in news
64-bit OS - runs 64-bit and 32-bit programs
- there are two Program Files folders for them

32-bit OS - runs 32-bit and 16-bit programs
- there is one Program Files folder

I'm probably unique in that almost all my programs are downloaded off the
web, so, while I maintain an archive (which has been 32 bit), I'm pretty
sure almost all the programs I use are still online.

I will put them all (32 or 64 bit) into the same c:\my_apps\{hierarchy}\
folder unless that won't work on Windows 10 (but I find it hard to believe
that won't work).

For example:
c:\my_apps\web_browsers\{chrome,firefox,tor,whatev er}
c:\my_apps\pic_editors\{vicman,xnview,gimp,whateve r}
c:\my_apps\file_cleaners\{recuva,ccleaner,duplicat ecleaner,whatever}
c:\my_apps\disc_burnders\{imgburn,iso2disc,rufus,w hatever}
c:\my_apps\network_clients\{filezilla,cuteftp,open vpn,whatever}
etc.

That's the plan anyway.

Are you saying that the plan of installing programs into where (I think)
they belong won't work on Windows 10 Pro?