Consumers' privacy concerns not backed by their actions

Mike Easter wrote:
Roger Blake wrote:
Cost is ridiculous when compared to similar-spec commodity hardware,
but as I said what you're paying for is the ease of use for people who
really have no knowledge of computers at all. I find it frustrating
to deal with since it is so locked down. However my elderly neighbor,
who is a WWII veteran to whom a computer seems like something out of
Buck Rogers, loves the thing.

Another feature of the WOW which is an all-in-one design 22" touchscreen
(2G ram, 32 G SSD, wireless kb/mouse) is their 'built-in' support
situation.


A competing marketer is Telikin, which has more screen size options on
weak cpu/ram and a laptop which benefits from having 4G ram and is also
'less overpriced' at $800 for 15.6 touchscreen and spinning 500G hdd
instead of small SSD.

It seems that Telikin has been around in some way since 2010 Nov
according wp article.

I wonder exactly who is in charge of developing the interface, since it
seems to be being used by more than one outfit. I believe Venture 3's
Fred Allegrezza has been into this idea longer than WOW.


--
Mike Easter

Mike Easter wrote:
I wonder exactly who is in charge of developing the interface, since it
seems to be being used by more than one outfit.Â* I believe Venture 3's
Fred Allegrezza has been into this idea longer than WOW.

Here's Fred commenting in the Ub forum in 2012 Oct;


Hey Guys,

Telikin was developed on the TinyCore Linux. Our primary goal of using
Linux was to avoid viruses, spyware, and malware. We also chose TinyCore
to have an option of an embedded version in the future. I am not a Linux
expert. Tim, Megan, Adam, Cliff and Carl work on the OS and back office
systems. We also have an application team developing the apps on Java.

We also selected TinyCore to have a platform that was easy for us to
manage updates for the users. Our background was in cable where settop
boxes have a lot of software but it is managed for the end users.

We agree that there are many tech savvy seniors. We built the computer
for those that are not comfortable with computers. About 50% of our
users have never used a copmputer before. We were not targeting tech
savvy seniors. They have Windows and Mac as options.

We decided to include a number of applications so the end users would
not need to load and manage application. In addition we know the apps
and if when a customer calls in we know what they are using. I think of
this more as an application system.

A big part of the business is support. We built in a remote management
service for all computers so we can remotly show our users how to use
applications.

The specs are on the web site.

As a value proposition telikin serves a niche market, included software
applications and great support. We undertand it is not for everyone, but
there are a number of happy users.

Hope this helps.
Fred Allegrezza CEO Telikin.


--
Mike Easter

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 19:01:19 +0100, Mike Easter wrote:

Mike Easter wrote:
Roger Blake wrote:
Cost is ridiculous when compared to similar-spec commodity hardware,
but as I said what you're paying for is the ease of use for people who
really have no knowledge of computers at all. I find it frustrating
to deal with since it is so locked down. However my elderly neighbor,
who is a WWII veteran to whom a computer seems like something out of
Buck Rogers, loves the thing.

Another feature of the WOW which is an all-in-one design 22" touchscreen
(2G ram, 32 G SSD, wireless kb/mouse) is their 'built-in' support
situation.


A competing marketer is Telikin, which has more screen size options on
weak cpu/ram and a laptop which benefits from having 4G ram and is also
'less overpriced' at $800 for 15.6 touchscreen and spinning 500G hdd
instead of small SSD.

It seems that Telikin has been around in some way since 2010 Nov
according wp article.

I wonder exactly who is in charge of developing the interface, since it
seems to be being used by more than one outfit. I believe Venture 3's
Fred Allegrezza has been into this idea longer than WOW.

"Benefits from 4G RAM"? WTF? I would never consider building a computer with under 16GB RAM. Current max is 64GB.

--
Said the Duchess of Windsor at tea,
"Young man, do you fart when you pee?"
I replied with some wit
"Do you belch when you ****?"
I think that was one up to me.

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:

Another feature of the WOW which is an all-in-one design 22" touchscreen
(2G ram, 32 G SSD, wireless kb/mouse) is their 'built-in' support
situation.

Notice that the WOW and most of the Telikins have 2G ram.

A competing marketer is Telikin, which has more screen size options on
weak cpu/ram and a laptop which benefits from having 4G ram and is also
'less overpriced' at $800 for 15.6 touchscreen and spinning 500G hdd
instead of small SSD.

"Benefits from 4G RAM"?Â* WTF?Â* I would never consider building a
computer with under 16GB RAM. Current max is 64GB.

Compared to 2G, 4G is twice as much and a lot more 'elbow room' for a
low resource system.

We are talking about machines running Tiny Core Linux, which starts off
with a 16 meg OS. If one doesn't waste a lot of ram on the interface,
2G is adequate and 4G is 'roomy' :-)

Typically Core Linux interfaces with an efficient window manager such as
Fast Light wm, but it offers others.

16 G in a rig like this would be ridiculous. It would be better to
spend some money on a faster CPU. I have no idea how they are handling
the graphics.


--
Mike Easter

In article
Mike Easter wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
Roger Blake wrote:
Cost is ridiculous when compared to similar-spec commodity hardware,
but as I said what you're paying for is the ease of use for people who
really have no knowledge of computers at all. I find it frustrating
to deal with since it is so locked down. However my elderly neighbor,
who is a WWII veteran to whom a computer seems like something out of
Buck Rogers, loves the thing.

Another feature of the WOW which is an all-in-one design 22" touchscreen
(2G ram, 32 G SSD, wireless kb/mouse) is their 'built-in' support
situation. Free lifetime basic support and VIP support at $10/mo, which
basic support is toll free phone, email, and claims to be US based (that
may be the VIP v.)Â as opposed to a language barrier phone center
somewhere in the world.

The VIP support includes extras and remote access support.

I dunno about the US, but in the UK if I get an Indian I just say "I'd
like to speak to an English person please" and they put me through to one.


The business of being able to provide sufficient quality telephone
support is typically a very costly and difficult undertaking. The
typical scenario is that it is farmed out to call centers somewhere the
support hourly wage is more affordable, such as India or the Philippines.

This target marketed audience of seniors, particularly those who would
choose to buy such a WOW computer, would seem to me to be a particularly
difficult one. "I don't know anything about computers and my faculties
are somewhat impaired as I can't see very well (or hear very well, or
remember very well, or handle a mouse very well)."

It is interesting that the WOW people decided to build their interface
on the Tiny Core Linux base and other open source ware. It seems that
the hardware is very minimal except for what is spent on that 22"
touchscreen, so the dollar distribution would be hardware-wise
principally that monitor touchscreen and then the tech support.

I'm sure they would 'immediately' upgrade the users who needed more
support to the $10/mo VIP (1st 30 d. free VIP), but that is still pretty
cheap price. Being able to give remote support helps a lot, but that
requires functional connectivity and hardware performance. If one of
those weren't operating properly, I think the customer would need some
kind of outside support.

The reviews on Amazon were more negative than positive. There were
worthwhile comments there from IT people who made suggestions about
alternate ways to provide much better hardware, but I didn't find those
suggestions satisfactory about how to achieve a 'foolproof' interface.
There's the nut in this venture.


--
Mike Easter

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:12:28 +0100, Mike Easter wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:

Another feature of the WOW which is an all-in-one design 22" touchscreen
(2G ram, 32 G SSD, wireless kb/mouse) is their 'built-in' support
situation.

Notice that the WOW and most of the Telikins have 2G ram.

A competing marketer is Telikin, which has more screen size options on
weak cpu/ram and a laptop which benefits from having 4G ram and is also
'less overpriced' at $800 for 15.6 touchscreen and spinning 500G hdd
instead of small SSD.

"Benefits from 4G RAM"? WTF? I would never consider building a
computer with under 16GB RAM. Current max is 64GB.

Compared to 2G, 4G is twice as much and a lot more 'elbow room' for a
low resource system.

We are talking about machines running Tiny Core Linux, which starts off
with a 16 meg OS. If one doesn't waste a lot of ram on the interface,
2G is adequate and 4G is 'roomy' :-)

Typically Core Linux interfaces with an efficient window manager such as
Fast Light wm, but it offers others.

16 G in a rig like this would be ridiculous. It would be better to
spend some money on a faster CPU. I have no idea how they are handling
the graphics.

So are these things capable of more than what my scientific calculator can do? Because they don't sound like it. My neighbour's smartphone is probably more powerful.

--
Police cordoned off Liverpool City Centre this morning when a suspicious object was discovered in a car.
It later turned out to be a tax disc.

Snit wrote:
On 6/1/18 3:57 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:

I'll stick to the one 90% of the population uses. More programs available

yep

(no I won't say "apps", those are for phones),

app is short for application, a term that dates back at least to the
80s, probably even earlier

Right. It is the term Apple has used since AT LEAST the start of the Mac.

Who cares!? We're talking about the *real* world! (Just kidding!)

FWIW, I only first encountered the term for mobile devices, yes
Apples'. OTOH, 'applet' was known (to me) well before that time.

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 21:13:33 +0100, Nomen Nescio wrote:

In article
Mike Easter wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
Roger Blake wrote:
Cost is ridiculous when compared to similar-spec commodity hardware,
but as I said what you're paying for is the ease of use for people who
really have no knowledge of computers at all. I find it frustrating
to deal with since it is so locked down. However my elderly neighbor,
who is a WWII veteran to whom a computer seems like something out of
Buck Rogers, loves the thing.

Another feature of the WOW which is an all-in-one design 22" touchscreen
(2G ram, 32 G SSD, wireless kb/mouse) is their 'built-in' support
situation. Free lifetime basic support and VIP support at $10/mo, which
basic support is toll free phone, email, and claims to be US based (that
may be the VIP v.)Â as opposed to a language barrier phone center
somewhere in the world.

The VIP support includes extras and remote access support.

I dunno about the US, but in the UK if I get an Indian I just say "I'd
like to speak to an English person please" and they put me through to one.


The business of being able to provide sufficient quality telephone
support is typically a very costly and difficult undertaking. The
typical scenario is that it is farmed out to call centers somewhere the
support hourly wage is more affordable, such as India or the Philippines.

This target marketed audience of seniors, particularly those who would
choose to buy such a WOW computer, would seem to me to be a particularly
difficult one. "I don't know anything about computers and my faculties
are somewhat impaired as I can't see very well (or hear very well, or
remember very well, or handle a mouse very well)."

It is interesting that the WOW people decided to build their interface
on the Tiny Core Linux base and other open source ware. It seems that
the hardware is very minimal except for what is spent on that 22"
touchscreen, so the dollar distribution would be hardware-wise
principally that monitor touchscreen and then the tech support.

I'm sure they would 'immediately' upgrade the users who needed more
support to the $10/mo VIP (1st 30 d. free VIP), but that is still pretty
cheap price. Being able to give remote support helps a lot, but that
requires functional connectivity and hardware performance. If one of
those weren't operating properly, I think the customer would need some
kind of outside support.

The reviews on Amazon were more negative than positive. There were
worthwhile comments there from IT people who made suggestions about
alternate ways to provide much better hardware, but I didn't find those
suggestions satisfactory about how to achieve a 'foolproof' interface..
There's the nut in this venture.


--
Mike Easter




--
"Inflation is creeping up," a young man said to his friend,
"Yesterday I ordered a $25.00 steak in a restaurant and told them
to put it on my American Express card -- and it fit."

On 6/2/18 1:20 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Snit wrote:
On 6/1/18 3:57 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:

I'll stick to the one 90% of the population uses. More programs available

yep

(no I won't say "apps", those are for phones),

app is short for application, a term that dates back at least to the
80s, probably even earlier

Right. It is the term Apple has used since AT LEAST the start of the Mac.

Who cares!? We're talking about the *real* world! (Just kidding!)

FWIW, I only first encountered the term for mobile devices, yes
Apples'. OTOH, 'applet' was known (to me) well before that time.


You only encountered it with mobile devices so you think that means the
term was not used... and more than that want to restrict how others use
the term!

Why?

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

On 6/2/18 1:19 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Compared to 2G, 4G is twice as much and a lot more 'elbow room' for a
low resource system.

We are talking about machines running Tiny Core Linux, which starts off
with a 16 meg OS.* If one doesn't waste a lot of ram on the interface,
2G is adequate and 4G is 'roomy' :-)

Typically Core Linux interfaces with an efficient window manager such as
Fast Light wm, but it offers others.

16 G in a rig like this would be ridiculous.* It would be better to
spend some money on a faster CPU.* I have no idea how they are handling
the graphics.

So are these things capable of more than what my scientific calculator
can do?* Because they don't sound like it.* My neighbour's smartphone is
probably more powerful.

For their user base the may very well be extremely powerful machines,
allowing them to surf the web, play games, edit images, and MUCH more in
a way few other machines can.

The "power" of a system is impacted by its tech specs but there is a LOT
more to it than that. The power is in what the user can do.

These systems, of course, are not designed for those of us who know what
Usenet is, no less use it.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

In article , Snit
wrote:

I'll stick to the one 90% of the population uses. More programs
available

yep

(no I won't say "apps", those are for phones),

app is short for application, a term that dates back at least to the
80s, probably even earlier

Right. It is the term Apple has used since AT LEAST the start of the Mac.

Who cares!? We're talking about the *real* world! (Just kidding!)

FWIW, I only first encountered the term for mobile devices, yes
Apples'. OTOH, 'applet' was known (to me) well before that time.


You only encountered it with mobile devices so you think that means the
term was not used... and more than that want to restrict how others use
the term!

Why?

https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/10/14/the-rise-of-the-app/
But, unlike smartphones and tablets, app isn¹t new. According to the
OEDŒs historical entry for the word, app as a shortening of
application (as in application program) first found its way into
print in the 1980s. Back then it was mainly a colloquial term used in
computing circles: the OEDŒs early quotations for it come from such
computing trade publications as Info World and Dr. Dobb¹s Journal. It
often appeared not by itself but as part of the phrase killer app,
meaning a software application which makes a new computing platform
desirable or necessary. Later, it became part of webapp, meaning an
application made available as a website, but as a word used on its
own it remained relatively uncommon.

On 6/2/18 1:31 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Snit
wrote:

I'll stick to the one 90% of the population uses. More programs
available

yep

(no I won't say "apps", those are for phones),

app is short for application, a term that dates back at least to the
80s, probably even earlier

Right. It is the term Apple has used since AT LEAST the start of the Mac.

Who cares!? We're talking about the *real* world! (Just kidding!)

FWIW, I only first encountered the term for mobile devices, yes
Apples'. OTOH, 'applet' was known (to me) well before that time.


You only encountered it with mobile devices so you think that means the
term was not used... and more than that want to restrict how others use
the term!

Why?

https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/10/14/the-rise-of-the-app/
But, unlike smartphones and tablets, app isn¹t new. According to the
OEDÅ’s historical entry for the word, app as a shortening of
application (as in application program) first found its way into
print in the 1980s. Back then it was mainly a colloquial term used in
computing circles: the OEDÅ’s early quotations for it come from such
computing trade publications as Info World and Dr. Dobb¹s Journal. It
often appeared not by itself but as part of the phrase killer app,
meaning a software application which makes a new computing platform
desirable or necessary. Later, it became part of webapp, meaning an
application made available as a website, but as a word used on its
own it remained relatively uncommon.


Good to see you found where "application" has been in use for quite some
time in this context. Heck, if you go to 1984 with the Macintosh it was
the primary term used. Since then it has been often shortened to just
"app", much as "Macintosh" itself has been shortened to "Mac".

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308

In article , Snit
wrote:


https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/10/14/the-rise-of-the-app/
But, unlike smartphones and tablets, app isn1t new. According to the
OED‘s historical entry for the word, app as a shortening of
application (as in application program) first found its way into
print in the 1980s. Back then it was mainly a colloquial term used in
computing circles: the OED‘s early quotations for it come from such
computing trade publications as Info World and Dr. Dobb1s Journal. It
often appeared not by itself but as part of the phrase killer app,
meaning a software application which makes a new computing platform
desirable or necessary. Later, it became part of webapp, meaning an
application made available as a website, but as a word used on its
own it remained relatively uncommon.


Good to see you found where "application" has been in use for quite some
time in this context. Heck, if you go to 1984 with the Macintosh it was
the primary term used. Since then it has been often shortened to just
"app", much as "Macintosh" itself has been shortened to "Mac".

yep. the term has been around for a long time.

well before the mac, in mainframe days, there was system or application
programming, a distinction that still applies today. some people write
kernel code, frameworks, drivers, etc., while others write end user
apps.

Snit wrote:
On 6/2/18 1:20 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Snit wrote:
On 6/1/18 3:57 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
wrote:

I'll stick to the one 90% of the population uses. More programs available

yep

(no I won't say "apps", those are for phones),

app is short for application, a term that dates back at least to the
80s, probably even earlier

Right. It is the term Apple has used since AT LEAST the start of the Mac.

Who cares!? We're talking about the *real* world! (Just kidding!)

FWIW, I only first encountered the term for mobile devices, yes
Apples'. OTOH, 'applet' was known (to me) well before that time.

You only encountered it with mobile devices so you think that means the
term was not used... and more than that want to restrict how others use
the term!

Why?

First of all, as I said, I was kidding, so easy does it.

Secondly, don't read between the lines and don't put words in my mouth
("you think", "want to restrict").

FWIW, I've been working in the computer industry since the late 60s
and I did not encounter the term 'app' before mobile devices. I think
it was probably mostly an Apple-thing. nospam says that it's not (an
Apple-thing), but as usual he doesn't back up his claims.

Current standing: Two versus two.

(AFAIC,) EOD (of this issue).

In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

FWIW, I've been working in the computer industry since the late 60s
and I did not encounter the term 'app' before mobile devices. I think
it was probably mostly an Apple-thing. nospam says that it's not (an
Apple-thing), but as usual he doesn't back up his claims.

as usual, i did.

here it is again:
https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/10/14/the-rise-of-the-app/
But, unlike smartphones and tablets, app isn¹t new. According to the
OEDŒs historical entry for the word, app as a shortening of
application (as in application program) first found its way into
print in the 1980s. Back then it was mainly a colloquial term used in
computing circles: the OEDŒs early quotations for it come from such
computing trade publications as Info World and Dr. Dobb¹s Journal. It
often appeared not by itself but as part of the phrase killer app,
meaning a software application which makes a new computing platform
desirable or necessary. Later, it became part of webapp, meaning an
application made available as a website, but as a word used on its
own it remained relatively uncommon.