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#16
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Email Info BackUp ?!
On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 10:04:52 -0600, Mark Lloyd wrote:
Webmail can be convenient when you have to use a different computer (or let someone else use yours to check mail), although IMAP with a mail program is better (including getting to make your own backups). The email I use allows webmail and IMAP with the same mailbox. Same here, and any differences in handling mail items is generally cosmetic and a matter of taste. For local backup, and *much* quicker searching, I find Mailstore very useful. When you get to hundreds then thousands then tens of thousand of mail items, factors like availability, security, privacy and so on become important and it pays to use a proper mail provider service although it may cost a few dollars a year. |
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#17
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Email Info BackUp ?!
I'd look on your system first. It may be stored locally as well as online. If so it would probably be somewhere in the app data catacombs, perhaps in a folder for your ISP. Couldn't find anything stored locally and doubt there is because 2 computers are accessing the same stuff. Next option: Look for some kind of export option in the webmail page. It's typically called an address book. You should be able to download that in some kind of universal format. This is exactly what I was looking for. I wasn't familiar with the csv format which appears to be kind of a spreadsheet. Thanks for this tip. 3rd option: Select and copy the whole thing, then save to Notepad and include in backups. It's easy and might save you a lot of trouble sometime. Why not also print out a copy? ... And of course I'd also agree with everyone else: Never, under any circumstances, use webmail. |
#18
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Email Info BackUp ?!
"mechanic" wrote
| ... And of course I'd also agree with everyone else: | Never, under any circumstances, use webmail. | | That seems a bit harsh. Email service providers can include secure | storage and communication in their package, and whether the messages | are accessed by IMAP or webmail makes no difference to that. Note the smiley. It was a joke because he got several responses telling him he should get off the webmail. Nevertheless, personally I wouldn't use webmail and do think the only reason to use it is inability or unwilling laziness about setting up a client(s). The reason is simply that it's not necessary to allow someone else to handle my email. Why depend on their storage? Why even allow their storage? For that reason I also don't use IMAP. I use POP3, so that the actual data is only stored on my end and deleted after I download it. And that's only as applies to ISP email. When it comes to freebie, spyware webmail, such as hotmail, gmail, yahoo, that gets into other issues. Do you want to let sleazy companies read your email, show you ads, and keep copies of your email, even after you think you've deleted it? If so then why? Just because you're too lazy to set up a client and back up your data yourself? Why put up with that kind of abuse otherwise? I don't see any reason to do so. In fact, with my public email address I tell people that freebie webmail is auto-deleted. I don't accept it. I accept it on my personal accounts only because I have no choice. I'd have to excommunicate half of my family and friends if I didn't. But I find it outrageous that Google gets away with storing, copying and exploiting my email to those people when I don't even have a relationship with Google. Unfortunately, there's nothing I can do. Some people already tried to sue Google over that and the suit was dismissed. If I remember correctly they had no case because they couldn't prove harm. That's surprising in context. If I send postal letters to someone and someone else steals copies that's a federal offense. But it's OK with email, mainly because companies like Google established the precedent early and law hasn't caught up. To use their product at all is to help them establish a precedent defining your webmail on their service as their property. In fact, that's Google's main defense in court cases: People have no reasonable expectation of privacy because everyone knows perfectly well that we're a sleazy, spyware company and that we've always disrespected their privacy. It's sort of like, "But Your Honor, they have no basis for pressing charges because I robbed their bank. They knew I was a dirty, rotten bank robber, so they had no reasonable expectation that I wouldn't steal their money when they allowed me in the door!" |
#19
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Email Info BackUp ?!
Mayayana wrote:
"mechanic" wrote ... And of course I'd also agree with everyone else: Never, under any circumstances, use webmail. That seems a bit harsh. Email service providers can include secure storage and communication in their package, and whether the messages are accessed by IMAP or webmail makes no difference to that. Note the smiley. It was a joke because he got several responses telling him he should get off the webmail. Nevertheless, personally I wouldn't use webmail and do think the only reason to use it is inability or unwilling laziness about setting up a client(s). I think there might be another reason. If you want easy accessibility of all your local email from any of your computers, no matter where you are - and especially if you are mobile, how are you going to readily do it without using webmail? I guess the only way is if you have everything somehow perfectly networked together, no matter where you are, but I can see some potential limitations even in this approach. That said, I don't know anything about IMAP, and maybe that gets around some of those limitations. (I'm just using OE locally here, with a POP3, ISP account, so I just don't know). |
#20
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Email Info BackUp ?!
wrote
| This is exactly what I was looking for. I wasn't familiar with the csv | format which appears to be kind of a spreadsheet. Thanks for this tip. | CSV is a text-based storage alternative to a spreadsheet. Each element is comma delimited. You can keep it like that, put it in a spreadsheet, convert it to an HTML file, or any number of other things if you have a tool or script to do it. But the comma-delimited version is probably all you need. ed smith, ed, smith, 29 willow st, anytown, 01234, ed jones, ed, jones, 18 maple st, anytown, 01234, That's not hard to read, but if you do any kind of scripting you can format it more to your liking as HTML, RTF, etc. |
#21
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Email Info BackUp ?!
Nevertheless, personally I wouldn't use webmail and do think the only reason to use it is inability or unwilling laziness about setting up a client(s). The reason is simply that it's not necessary to allow someone else to handle my email. Why depend on their storage? Why even allow their storage? For that reason I also don't use IMAP. I use POP3, so that the actual data is only stored on my end and deleted after I download it. But it's so easy for anyone, not some kind of wiz, to use. It's worked for me without a single issue for years. I'm just not that kind of paranoid. |
#22
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Email Info BackUp ?!
On 2018-11-05, Bill in Co wrote:
I think there might be another reason. If you want easy accessibility of all your local email from any of your computers, no matter where you are - and especially if you are mobile, how are you going to readily do it without using webmail? I've been doing that for decades, since well before "thuh web" even existed, by connecting a terminal session to a Unix host. Email is then accessed via a text-based program run from the shell. Still do it that way. No webmail required. (In the old days it would be via dialup modem. Today ssh is the ticket.) -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.) NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
#23
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Email Info BackUp ?!
Roger Blake wrote:
On 2018-11-05, Bill in Co wrote: I think there might be another reason. If you want easy accessibility of all your local email from any of your computers, no matter where you are - and especially if you are mobile, how are you going to readily do it without using webmail? I've been doing that for decades, since well before "thuh web" even existed, by connecting a terminal session to a Unix host. Email is then accessed via a text-based program run from the shell. Still do it that way. No webmail required. (In the old days it would be via dialup modem. Today ssh is the ticket.) Well, I did say "readily". :-) I'm figuring the typical user doesn't have access to that. So, just thinking about someone who owns a couple of Windows computers,cell phones, and Android tablets, and perhaps travels a bit, IF one doesn't use webmail, it sure seems to me it would be a bit limiting for them. |
#24
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Email Info BackUp ?!
On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 16:40:41 -0700, "Bill in Co"
wrote: Roger Blake wrote: On 2018-11-05, Bill in Co wrote: I think there might be another reason. If you want easy accessibility of all your local email from any of your computers, no matter where you are - and especially if you are mobile, how are you going to readily do it without using webmail? I've been doing that for decades, since well before "thuh web" even existed, by connecting a terminal session to a Unix host. Email is then accessed via a text-based program run from the shell. Still do it that way. No webmail required. (In the old days it would be via dialup modem. Today ssh is the ticket.) Well, I did say "readily". :-) I'm figuring the typical user doesn't have access to that. So, just thinking about someone who owns a couple of Windows computers,cell phones, and Android tablets, and perhaps travels a bit, IF one doesn't use webmail, it sure seems to me it would be a bit limiting for them. Not limiting at all. Take IMAP, for example. Mail clients on each of those devices can be configured to use the IMAP protocol. The effect is that the mail server holds a copy of all of your emails, and each device merely syncs with the mail server. Whether you're traveling or at home, it's all the same. Personally, I see no need to ever use webmail. Like Ken Blake said, I think that's the worst way to access your email. -- Char Jackson |
#25
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Email Info BackUp ?!
"Bill in Co" wrote
| Nevertheless, personally I wouldn't use webmail | and do think the only reason to use it is | inability or unwilling laziness about setting up a | client(s). | | I think there might be another reason. If you want easy accessibility of | all your local email from any of your computers, no matter where you are - | and especially if you are mobile, how are you going to readily do it without | using webmail? As Ken said, he just has an email client on his laptop. I'm like you -- I rarely use any computer other than my home desktop. But people who travel can have programs set up on their laptops. It just means having 2 or 3 programs to set up rather than one. It's the same with remote work. Many people log into their work network remotely. So I think the idea of needing it for travel is just another kind of laziness. At worst you'd just have to keep track of how you store it. For instance, if you have POP3 on your home computer you probably don't want it on your phone because then neither device would have a complete collection of your emails. |
#26
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Email Info BackUp ?!
wrote
| But it's so easy for anyone, not some kind of wiz, to use. | | It's worked for me without a single issue for years. | | I'm just not that kind of paranoid. I think what you're doing is different. As I understand it you're using ISP webmail. So at least it's not ad-supported, spyware email. Your ISP handles your email, anyway, no matter how you receive it. So you'd do well to have backup, but your approach is not giving access to anyone unnecessarily. And since you presumably pay for your ISP service, they're probably not trying to profit by showing you ads. With things like gmail it's not a matter of paranoia. I'm not in a controversial minority and I'm not a criminal. My email is not especially controversial. It's more the principle of the thing. What they're doing is very sleazy and they have no right by any common standard of decency. To allow it, as I said, is to help them to set a precedent. And that precedent has very real legal ramifications. On the other hand, it is slightly naive to think we needn't worry about problems. We can afford to think that way because we live in a relatively safe and free society. But history is full of cases where people were taken by surprise. Mao's purge in China. The Jews in WW2. (I once asked a Jewish friend, whose entire extended family had been lost in WW2 Germany, why more Jews didn't just leave. He replied that that was a common question among Jews. I suspect it was just garden variety laziness and dullness. Leaving would have been a hassle. And anyway, what are they going to do? Maybe raise taxes? We're wealthy, upstanding citizens, after all. It's not like they're going to raid the neighborhood or gas us all to death.... woops.) I half expect that it won't be long before I'm stopped on the street for not having a computer phone. Soon it will be suspicious for someone to move in public without registering on "public safety" scanners, like stingrays. It will be like the log-in screens of 1984, except that the log-in will happen automatically and transparently. That's the critical part: It's happening for the same reason Google spying is happening. Because it's effortless and transparent. It won't require coercion and in-house cameras. People who use corporate webmail have their private correspondence co-owned by for-profit corporations. Those corporations cooperate with the NSA through PRISM. Phone calls are similar. It's quickly getting to a place where privacy will be cause for suspicion. (As Eric Schmidt of Google said: If you need privacy then maybe you're doing something you shouldn't be. He should know. Schmidt famously got a condo with no doorman to make sure no one would be around to gossip about his promiscuous sex life.) The root of the problem is that the big corporations, the advertisers, and gov't beancounters all have a matching interest: To know as much as possible about you. And the net neutrality issue brings ISPs in as potential enemies of the citizen who can now profit by treating you like a cable TV customer. There's no entity that stands to benefit from common decency except you. Today I saw an encouraging thing, though: Tim Berner's-Lee is proposing a "magna carta of the Internet", to officially establish a right to privacy and access for everyone in the world. That sounds nice. If we don't do something it will all be commercially owned very soon. |
#27
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Email Info BackUp ?!
Mayayana wrote:
wrote | But it's so easy for anyone, not some kind of wiz, to use. | | It's worked for me without a single issue for years. | | I'm just not that kind of paranoid. I think what you're doing is different. As I understand it you're using ISP webmail. Optimum offers at least three options. 1) Webmail (what Steve using using now) 2) POP3 (with Thunderbird or other third-party tool) 3) IMAP (with Thunderbird or other third-party tool) But I don't want to muddy the waters by giving Steve any complicated recipes. And the Optimum page for Thunderbird commits a "cardinal sin" when it comes to help. This is why I will only be providing links, if Steve "expresses some enthusiasm" for screwing around. POP3, the normal usage model is "the message is stored locally, and deleted from the server". This creates an archive by default. This user would partake in local backups, to fortify the archiving process. There is an option with POP3 to leave the message on the server, but I'm not sure that's a useful option. (Whether it makes the email "manageable".) IMAP, the normal usage model is "the message stays on the server, any computer at home or at Starbucks, could be used to tap into the ISP-stored emails". Webmail, the normal usage model is "the message stays on the server, goofy options may cause messages to be stored more than once, storage model may be hard to understand if ISP is not forthright with the details". Paul |
#28
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Email Info BackUp ?!
"Paul" wrote
| | But it's so easy for anyone, not some kind of wiz, to use. | | | | It's worked for me without a single issue for years. | | | | I'm just not that kind of paranoid. | | I think what you're doing is different. As I understand | it you're using ISP webmail. | | Optimum offers at least three options. | | 1) Webmail (what Steve using using now) | 2) POP3 (with Thunderbird or other third-party tool) | 3) IMAP (with Thunderbird or other third-party tool) | I think most or all ISPs offer those options. What I meant was that there's a difference between ISP email and gmail. Regardless of how one retrieves email, the former is paid, doesn't show ads, and probably doesn't have a TOS saying they claim a right to co-own or read your email. They're more likely to say the opposite, that there's a limit to how much you can clutter their service with your email. It wasn't so long ago that email servers were all POP3 and had small limits for storage. It was expected that people would pick up and delete the stored email regularly, and not leave some gigantic, 75 KB cat picture clogging their hard disk. |
#29
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Email Info BackUp ?!
On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 20:10:10 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote: I'd agree with the others who say do try a real email client. (And for long enough to see the difference - two or three weeks at least, I'd say.) Yes, two or three weeks, at least. I'd like to stress that again. It's far too often that someone tries a piece of software for just a few minutes, decides he doesn't like it, and switches away from it. It takes some time to get to know a piece of software, learn how to use it, and find and set all its options the way you like it. Thunderbird is IMO a good compromise between best and well-supported - a lot of ISPs, for example, have instructions specific to setting it up with them, probably including yours. I've tried Thunderbird, and don't particularly like it. We're all different and have different ways of working and different likes and dislikes. That's why it's best to try, not just one, but a few e-mail programs. Having said that I don't particularly like Thunderbird, I'll add that I don't hate it; in my view, it's considerably better than any web-based e-mail. |
#30
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Email Info BackUp ?!
In message , Mayayana
writes: wrote | This is exactly what I was looking for. I wasn't familiar with the csv | format which appears to be kind of a spreadsheet. Thanks for this tip. | CSV is a text-based storage alternative to a spreadsheet. Each element is comma delimited. You can keep it like that, put it in a spreadsheet, convert it to an HTML file, or any number of other things if you have a tool or script to do it. But the comma-delimited version is probably all you need. ed smith, ed, smith, 29 willow st, anytown, 01234, ed jones, ed, jones, 18 maple st, anytown, 01234, That's not hard to read, but if you do any kind of scripting you can format it more to your liking as HTML, RTF, etc. In case it isn't obvious from the above - CSV stands for "comma-separated values". -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf "He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; he who dares not is a slave." - Sir William Drummond Above all things, use your mind. Don't be that bigot, fool, or slave. |
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