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#46
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Build 1074 feels like Linux
On 06/11/2015 12:56 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
The problem with Linux distros is that when they come out with a new version they always introduce new bugs. As opposed to Windows? Oh my goodness!!! M$ has a long history of patches breaking all kinds of things. And their OS updates have a habit of breaking most everything, which is the point, so you have to buy updates and spend $$$$ on programmers, who have to buy software from M$ to write those programs. And as far as Linux goes, the things I have noticed getting broken as trivial. And the new bugs that get introduced a far fewer than the bugs that get fixed. And, And, you can always get Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or clones), where things are locked down from that sort of thing for 10 years! |
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#47
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Build 1074 feels like Linux
On 06/12/2015 01:47 PM, Ken1943 wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:36:57 -0700, T wrote: On 06/11/2015 12:56 PM, GreyCloud wrote: The problem with Linux distros is that when they come out with a new version they always introduce new bugs. As opposed to Windows? Oh my goodness!!! M$ has a long history of patches breaking all kinds of things. And their OS updates have a habit of breaking most everything, which is the point, so you have to buy updates and spend $$$$ on programmers, who have to buy software from M$ to write those programs. And as far as Linux goes, the things I have noticed getting broken as trivial. And the new bugs that get introduced a far fewer than the bugs that get fixed. And, And, you can always get Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or clones), where things are locked down from that sort of thing for 10 years! I can't be sure, but Linux has a .0000005% of the desktop users at the most ?? If you want to push linux, go somewhere where people give a ****. Linux desktops suck and the software is unpolished to say the least. Windows programmers have some problems, but even the crappy programs are better than what get written for linux****. Hey, I like that name, Linux****. Use it for servers and the science community, but never for general use. Except for stupid people for surfing and email. KenW Hi Ken, Sorehead. This is just friends talking computers. No one is forcing you to read it. And things have changed a lot. Try some of the new Live CD's: https://spins.fedoraproject.org/ The only drawback Linux now has is the lack of business applications. Unfortunately, I don't see that changing and time soon. The "surf" crowd should seriously think of an iPad. -T By the way, the more OS'es you learn, the more fun this profession becomes. |
#48
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Build 1074 feels like Linux
On 2015-06-12 4:28 PM, T wrote:
3) M$ has a long history of ripping others off Absolutely, it's not like Linux ripped Microsoft off or anything... GNOME until 3 - Looks and behaves exactly like Windows 95 KDE - Looks and behaves exactly like Windows 95 XFCE - Looks and behaves exactly like Windows 95 Cinnamon - Looks and behaves exactly like Windows 95 MATE - Looks and behaves exactly like Windows 95 LXDE - Looks and behaves exactly like Windows 95 LXQT - Looks and behaves exactly like Windows 95 Clearly, Linux is the hotbed of original ideas. -- Slimer Proud "wintroll" Encrypt. |
#49
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Build 1074 feels like Linux
On 2015-06-12 4:47 PM, Ken1943 wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:36:57 -0700, T wrote: On 06/11/2015 12:56 PM, GreyCloud wrote: The problem with Linux distros is that when they come out with a new version they always introduce new bugs. As opposed to Windows? Oh my goodness!!! M$ has a long history of patches breaking all kinds of things. And their OS updates have a habit of breaking most everything, which is the point, so you have to buy updates and spend $$$$ on programmers, who have to buy software from M$ to write those programs. And as far as Linux goes, the things I have noticed getting broken as trivial. And the new bugs that get introduced a far fewer than the bugs that get fixed. And, And, you can always get Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or clones), where things are locked down from that sort of thing for 10 years! I can't be sure, but Linux has a .0000005% of the desktop users at the most ?? 1.5%, give or take. People tend to try it out and lose their **** within the first week of its installation because an update broke some of the functionality or left them with an unusable desktop. If you want to push linux, go somewhere where people give a ****. Linux desktops suck and the software is unpolished to say the least. Windows programmers have some problems, but even the crappy programs are better than what get written for linux****. Agreed. T is more than welcome to move his propaganda to comp.os.linux.advocacy where us "wintrolls" can school him on how awful Linux is on a daily basis. He's welcome to show us the contrary. Hey, I like that name, Linux****. Use it for servers and the science community, but never for general use. Except for stupid people for surfing and email. I prefer Linsux, but Lunix works too since the people advocating the "product" have serious mental deficiencies and the inability to see the stink lines the monitor emits when the "operating system" is installed on one of their machines. -- Slimer Proud "wintroll" Encrypt. |
#50
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Build 1074 feels like Linux
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 18:18:27 -0400
Slimer wrote: On 2015-06-12 4:47 PM, Ken1943 wrote: On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:36:57 -0700, T wrote: On 06/11/2015 12:56 PM, GreyCloud wrote: The problem with Linux distros is that when they come out with a new version they always introduce new bugs. As opposed to Windows? Oh my goodness!!! M$ has a long history of patches breaking all kinds of things. And their OS updates have a habit of breaking most everything, which is the point, so you have to buy updates and spend $$$$ on programmers, who have to buy software from M$ to write those programs. And as far as Linux goes, the things I have noticed getting broken as trivial. And the new bugs that get introduced a far fewer than the bugs that get fixed. And, And, you can always get Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or clones), where things are locked down from that sort of thing for 10 years! I can't be sure, but Linux has a .0000005% of the desktop users at the most ?? 1.5%, give or take. People tend to try it out and lose their **** within the first week of its installation because an update broke some of the functionality or left them with an unusable desktop. Why don't you quit lying and tell the truth for a change? I have never known an update to break anything. The people that give up in a week, just won't accept the fact that Linux is a completely different operating system, and take the time to learn how to use it. Instead they give up and run back to something that is more comfortable and familiar to them. I moved to Linux to get away from the Spyware that Windows is, and promised myself that I wouldn't go back, and I haven't. I probably had more trouble learning how to use Linux Mint without screwing it up so bad it was useless, than anyone, but I stuck with it, and had people to help me, and I'm still using it 18 months later. |
#51
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Build 1074 feels like Linux
On 06/12/2015 03:33 PM, Johnny wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 18:18:27 -0400 Slimer wrote: On 2015-06-12 4:47 PM, Ken1943 wrote: On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:36:57 -0700, T wrote: On 06/11/2015 12:56 PM, GreyCloud wrote: The problem with Linux distros is that when they come out with a new version they always introduce new bugs. As opposed to Windows? Oh my goodness!!! M$ has a long history of patches breaking all kinds of things. And their OS updates have a habit of breaking most everything, which is the point, so you have to buy updates and spend $$$$ on programmers, who have to buy software from M$ to write those programs. And as far as Linux goes, the things I have noticed getting broken as trivial. And the new bugs that get introduced a far fewer than the bugs that get fixed. And, And, you can always get Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or clones), where things are locked down from that sort of thing for 10 years! I can't be sure, but Linux has a .0000005% of the desktop users at the most ?? 1.5%, give or take. People tend to try it out and lose their **** within the first week of its installation because an update broke some of the functionality or left them with an unusable desktop. Why don't you quit lying and tell the truth for a change? I have never known an update to break anything. The people that give up in a week, just won't accept the fact that Linux is a completely different operating system, and take the time to learn how to use it. Instead they give up and run back to something that is more comfortable and familiar to them. I moved to Linux to get away from the Spyware that Windows is, and promised myself that I wouldn't go back, and I haven't. I probably had more trouble learning how to use Linux Mint without screwing it up so bad it was useless, than anyone, but I stuck with it, and had people to help me, and I'm still using it 18 months later. Hi Johnny, As soon as they see the straight jacket removed, I think folks try to learn Linux too fast. Just slow down a bit and it will come to you. Or have someone set it up for you. Now speaking of hard to learn, back to Son-of-Frankenstein (w10). Now, where exactly is Waldo? -T |
#52
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Build 1074 feels like Linux
On 2015-06-12, Slimer wrote:
Clearly, Linux is the hotbed of original ideas. You are confusing window managers and desktop environments with the base operating system. Many of them will run on other Unix-type operating systems. Check out Enlightenment, wm2, MWM, Afterstep, Twm, FVWM, Sawfish, Fluxbox, Window Maker, AmiWM, etc., etc. (there are many to choose from) and get back to us. Here's a fairly comprehensive list you can start with: http://www.gilesorr.com/wm/table.html Speaking of original ideas, ever wonder in Windows where the I/O redirection syntax ( 2&1 etc.) comes from? -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.) NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
#53
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Build 1074 feels like Linux
On 2015-06-12, T wrote:
Sorehead. This is just friends talking computers. No one is forcing you to read it. A good perspective. It's amazing how hotheaded people get over this stuff. To give you a perspective from someone who has been working in the computer industry for over 40 years and has worked with a large number of different architectures and operating systems: It ALL sucks. It's all buggy. It's all unsecure. It all has hidden trap doors with spikes waiting for you at the bottom of the pit. It will all turn around and bite you in the ass when you least expect it. Windows sucks. Linux sucks. BSD sucks. OS/X sucks. Plan 9 sucks. NeXT sucks. RSX11M sucks. VMS sucks. RSTS sucks. RT-11 sucks. OS/8 sucks. Etc., etc., etc., all down the line. IT ALL SUCKS. (Well, maybe TOPS-20 doesn't *completely* suck. :-) It's just a matter of choosing the environment that has the features you need and the flaws you can live with. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.) NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
#54
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Build 1074 feels like Linux
On 2015-06-12 6:33 PM, Johnny wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 18:18:27 -0400 Slimer wrote: On 2015-06-12 4:47 PM, Ken1943 wrote: On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:36:57 -0700, T wrote: On 06/11/2015 12:56 PM, GreyCloud wrote: The problem with Linux distros is that when they come out with a new version they always introduce new bugs. As opposed to Windows? Oh my goodness!!! M$ has a long history of patches breaking all kinds of things. And their OS updates have a habit of breaking most everything, which is the point, so you have to buy updates and spend $$$$ on programmers, who have to buy software from M$ to write those programs. And as far as Linux goes, the things I have noticed getting broken as trivial. And the new bugs that get introduced a far fewer than the bugs that get fixed. And, And, you can always get Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or clones), where things are locked down from that sort of thing for 10 years! I can't be sure, but Linux has a .0000005% of the desktop users at the most ?? 1.5%, give or take. People tend to try it out and lose their **** within the first week of its installation because an update broke some of the functionality or left them with an unusable desktop. Why don't you quit lying and tell the truth for a change? I have never known an update to break anything. The people that give up in a week, just won't accept the fact that Linux is a completely different operating system, and take the time to learn how to use it. Instead they give up and run back to something that is more comfortable and familiar to them. I moved to Linux to get away from the Spyware that Windows is, and promised myself that I wouldn't go back, and I haven't. I probably had more trouble learning how to use Linux Mint without screwing it up so bad it was useless, than anyone, but I stuck with it, and had people to help me, and I'm still using it 18 months later. I'm lying about updates breaking the system? Let's see... https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/arch-29/arch-update-%3D-break-4175438110/ https://superuser.com/questions/372962/why-would-an-efi-bios-update-break-the-efi-boot-manager https://askubuntu.com/questions/223143/broken-package-after-update-linux-headers-error-brokencount-0 https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/72815/mint-update-with-nvidia-breaks-cinnamon http://www.webupd8.org/2014/09/recent-update-broke-ubuntu-desktop-on.html https://forum.sabayon.org/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=32123 I'm sure all of those are lies as well. You might want to think twice about calling someone a liar when so much evidence is available on the web. Take your Linux propaganda and shove it up your ass, nobody here cares about the amateur code you call an operating system. -- Slimer Proud "wintroll" Encrypt. |
#55
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Build 1074 feels like Linux
On 06/12/2015 04:09 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2015-06-12, T wrote: Sorehead. This is just friends talking computers. No one is forcing you to read it. A good perspective. It's amazing how hotheaded people get over this stuff. To give you a perspective from someone who has been working in the computer industry for over 40 years and has worked with a large number of different architectures and operating systems: It ALL sucks. It's all buggy. It's all unsecure. It all has hidden trap doors with spikes waiting for you at the bottom of the pit. It will all turn around and bite you in the ass when you least expect it. Windows sucks. Linux sucks. BSD sucks. OS/X sucks. Plan 9 sucks. NeXT sucks. RSX11M sucks. VMS sucks. RSTS sucks. RT-11 sucks. OS/8 sucks. Etc., etc., etc., all down the line. IT ALL SUCKS. (Well, maybe TOPS-20 doesn't *completely* suck. :-) It's just a matter of choosing the environment that has the features you need and the flaws you can live with. Hi Roger, You are making too much sense. You need to reform! :-) -T I have been in electronics for over 41 years and computer consulting for going on 21. When I get really old, I haven't decided what I want to become. What do you think? Curmudgeon or Toothless Old Fart? I got to work on the cane shake thing still. "YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN !!! I have a lawn ???" |
#56
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Build 1074 feels like Linux
On 06/12/2015 03:54 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2015-06-12, Slimer wrote: Clearly, Linux is the hotbed of original ideas. You are confusing window managers and desktop environments with the base operating system. Many of them will run on other Unix-type operating systems. Check out Enlightenment, wm2, MWM, Afterstep, Twm, FVWM, Sawfish, Fluxbox, Window Maker, AmiWM, etc., etc. (there are many to choose from) and get back to us. Here's a fairly comprehensive list you can start with: http://www.gilesorr.com/wm/table.html Speaking of original ideas, ever wonder in Windows where the I/O redirection syntax ( 2&1 etc.) comes from? Every time I have to use 2&1, I have to look it up in bash's man page. How many ways can you typo the thing! 2&1 is the typical one. AAAAAAAHHHHHHH !!!! |
#57
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Build 1074 feels like Linux
On 2015-06-13, T wrote:
Every time I have to use 2&1, I have to look it up in bash's man page. How many ways can you typo the thing! 2&1 is the typical one. AAAAAAAHHHHHHH !!!! Actually I think you're right and I had the typo! It's pretty cryptic and after all this time I still have to look it up to be sure. Works great in Windows cmd.exe as well, which was the whole point. :-) -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.) NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
#58
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Build 1074 feels like Linux
On 2015-06-13, T wrote:
... What do you think? Curmudgeon or Toothless Old Fart? I got to work on the cane shake thing still. "YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN !!! I have a lawn ???" I've been going down the Curmudgeon path myself, though Toothless Old Fart has its attractions as well. Dang these kids today with their transistor radios glued to their ears... -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.) NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
#59
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Build 1074 feels like Linux
On 06/12/2015 06:31 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2015-06-13, T wrote: Every time I have to use 2&1, I have to look it up in bash's man page. How many ways can you typo the thing! 2&1 is the typical one. AAAAAAAHHHHHHH !!!! Actually I think you're right and I had the typo! It's pretty cryptic and after all this time I still have to look it up to be sure. Works great in Windows cmd.exe as well, which was the whole point. :-) Now you made me go look it up, AGAIN!!! man bash ... Note that the order of redirections is significant. For example, the command ls dirlist 2&1 directs both standard output and standard error to the file dirlist, while the command ls 2&1 dirlist |
#60
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Build 1074 feels like Linux
GreyCloud wrote:
Stef wrote: [snip] You don't need to go to school or class to learn Linux. I didn't. Completely self taught. Some can and some can't. Just the shows the diversity of people. Only a few can't. Those with low cognitive ability. But most can. They just never try convinced that the subject matter is beyond them. So, if I can do it, anyone can. If they try. Most don't. Too much work. They want it easy. Of course, if they have no desire to work a computer and just want to get it done. Also, most don't have time to spare due to other pressing matters. Our educational system (at least in the U.S.) pander to poor students and teaching by rote instead of understanding concepts. This philosophy affects good students badly as they aren't challenged sufficiently. And actually never reach their full potential. Teaching methods were similar when I was in school, but standards were a lot higher, you were expected to do well, and were "held back" when you didn't. Spare time? People have plenty of spare time. They just don't use it productively. They'd rather watch the latest installment of some inane "reality" show on TV, or knock back more than a few at the neighborhood pub every night. I double majored in college -- math and physics -- and even though I attended classes 6 days a week for four years, I still put myself through school working parttime during the school year and full time summers. No scholarships or aid or loans. So, "don't have enough time" doesn't cut it with me. What do Windows people do when the wifi doesn't work? They call tech support. A Linux user will find out why it doesn't work and fix it. Sometimes that isn't as easy as it sounds. Depends on the computer. Most times it is, regardless of the computer or OS. Dell has tried to sell PCs with linux preinstalled and so has HP. Their efforts were ignored by the public and soon the PCs were pulled from the market place. Linux (Ubuntu, I think) still available on Dells, and HPs, too. Lenovos as well. They just make it hard to find on their web sites. Probably due to pressure from Microsoft. But it's there. Problem is, they aren't advertised on their front page. I haven't seen a linux PC advertised at HP for a long time now. Even more odd, HP owns OpenVMS, but never advertises it. You have to google for it and it is on some obscure HP website. Microsoft has lots of influence on manufactures. And MS wants Windows on ALL computers. And so there won't be any anti-trust actions against MS, Linux is an option. It's just buried. Most of the time with no direct links on the web site itself to where it's offered. You have to do a site search to find it, or make a phone call. The real problem is computing stagnation. Even HPs CEO recognizes this and is trying to do something about this. Kind of reminds me of the 70s and CP/M and S-100 boxes. That market stagnated as well. When IBM came out with something new, the PC, the CP/M almost died overnight. Microsoft and Windows have too much control over the market. That's where the stagnation lies. Why improve when you have 90% of the market? That's true, as I've heard that there is no incentive to make things better, let alone fix all of the bugs. On the other hand, a paradox sits in front of us... linux is given away free for the download, but still has the lowest market share of desktop systems. I suppose it is because there are too many distros out there and some aren't that good. With over 300 Linux distros, I'm sure more than a few are dogs. But one thing I've been seeing lately is specialization: a distro designed specifically for a given task or group of tasks. For example, a distro just to create a VPN or DNS or firewall. That's all it does, All commandline. No GUI. Of course, you can do the same with any general Linux distro, but these specific ones are quick and easy to get going. The problem with Linux distros is that when they come out with a new version they always introduce new bugs. I've seen some do distro hopping hoping to find the best distro. Some distros do; others don't. I use Debian whose releases have a 5 year life cycle. Over that time, it remains basically unchanged with only bug and security fixes. Some distros have LTS -- Long Term Support -- that go up to 7 years and remain virtually the same. Then there are others Like Fedora who releases new versions every 6 months. Some distros are "rolling releases". that are constantly in a state of flux, but they do have the latest of everything. So, they are good for cutting edge hardware. With Linux, at least, you have choice, lots of choice, to fit your needs. Stef |
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