WinXP user bought first desktop Win7 - Win10 Pro

On Thu, 11 May 2017 17:34:44 -0400, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2017 14:16:25 -0400, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2017 15:18:46 -0000 (UTC), John & Jane Doe
wrote:

Bill wrote in :

And have not most of the people you are describing as desktop users
moved on to laptops, tablets and mobile phones as their primary
computing device? :--)
Philosophically, that's a good point.

It would be interesting to see who is on a "desktop" nowadays.

Gamers for sure.
All of the gamers that I know, which is maybe a dozen, have moved to
'gaming laptops'. I was surprised to see it.
Yeah, that's why they make stuff like this.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11246/...r-titan-review

Intel Core i7-7920HQ 4C/8T
NVIDIA GTX 1080 SLI, 8GB GDDR5X Per Card
Battery 75 Wh, 2 x 330W AC Adapter
Weight 13.1 lbs
$4399+

I think my desktop case is still a bit heavier than that.

It takes two out-sized AC adapters to feed it. Which is
pretty impressive, when you consider the adapters have
nothing but conduction/convection cooling. And no big-ass
cooling fins. I'm very impressed.

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/112...ords_575px.jpg

So you could sit on the couch, and put one
adapter under each armpit.

Great data point. Here's another one. Last Christmas I let a family
member pick out his own gift - a gaming laptop. It came with a note,
more like sort of a warning, that certain popular games, (it had a list
but I've forgotten), would draw more power than the AC adapter was able
to provide. Long periods of game play would therefore draw from the
battery. I think that was an Asus.


Which means at some point, you'd have to stop and
recharge the battery (for an hour). Cool.

Exactly. Other than that, he liked the laptop well enough to select it,
but that sounds to me like a bit of a design flaw. I think they claimed
about 7 hours of continuous game play with a fully charged battery. I
joked with him that that should be enough and his response was that I'd
probably be surprised at how long some sessions go.

Char Jackson wrote:

Exactly. Other than that, he liked the laptop well enough to select it,
but that sounds to me like a bit of a design flaw. I think they claimed
about 7 hours of continuous game play with a fully charged battery. I
joked with him that that should be enough and his response was that I'd
probably be surprised at how long some sessions go.


Which is preciesely why, when I was a gamer, I loved my desktops --
could draw 4A or more for as long as I "needed" for that session.

--
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Gene Wirchenko wrote in :

The UI for an automobile is considerably more complicated, and
yet people manage.

It's a good point that every person (essentially) can manage an automobile
(although some crash) just as every person somehow manages MS windows and
Apple stuff (not necessarily Linux though).

Every person somehow manages a mobile phone OS also, and some people even
manage router OS and microwave OS.

The one interface I can't seem to manage (without the instructions, and
sometimes even with them) is my darn Intermedic digital alarm clock from
Lowes.

Darn that abomination to UI hell!

On 12/05/2017 04:24, John & Jane Doe wrote:
The one interface I can't seem to manage (without the instructions,
and sometimes even with them)

You are clearly not an intelligent person so have you thought of taking
your machine to your local geek shop who can fix it for you for a small
charge? Alternatively, wipe the disk clean and install Linux so that
Linux junkies can bend backwards to sort you out. they don't have
anything else to do in life.




--
With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

On 05/09/17 07:00, John & Jane Doe wrote:
Bill wrote in :

I assume the OP's My Computer is not the same as Microsoft's My
Computer, so disabling all icons this way is not what is being talked
about. He will just have to remove all unwanted icons individually as he
has done in XP.

Whether it's linux or windows xp or windows 10, we all do the same things,
so the user interface has no reason to be different in functionality.

In Linux the GUI differs a lot, this for people like to do things in
different ways and you have the freedom to choose which one you use and
in the worst case you can patch the one which is closes to your wishes
to do what you want. As microsft do not listen to it's end customers,
you get a fixed GUI and it changes with version. If you prefer something
more traditional from microsoft, then use microsoft windows 7, it's end
date is January 14, 2020, which should be around when your current
computer is too slow to run programs released for microsoft windows in 2020.


I don't think I'm a genius but why am I the only one saying that there's
nothing different whatsoever between what any person does on these desktop
computers?

Driving a car is the same for everyone too, getting from point A to B,
but people do drive in different ways and come make a stop at point C
before they arrive to point B.

We all do the same thing.
a. We run the same kinds of programs
b. We save our data into the same kinds of files
c. And we have to set up the system from time to time

I did my install back in 2004 with some of the configuration files are
back from my University years, just seen to keep it up to date, migrated
it to new storage and when updating computer, just move the storage from
the old computer to the new. So no, we do not need to set up the system
from time to time, we just need to see to that the system is always up
to date, free from known vulnerabilities.


What he is asking for, and I would suggest is what many serious computer
users want, is a straightforward operating system. It's a tragedy that
Microsoft, with the experience and ability, no longer offer any such
thing for desktop users.

I just want a clean simple user interface that has simple access to:
1. My programs
2. My files
3. My settings

Use microsoft windows 7 or one of the plenty free alternatives, ReactOS
could be useful in a few years.

--

//Aho

J.O. Aho wrote:
On 05/09/17 07:00, John & Jane Doe wrote:
Bill wrote in :

I assume the OP's My Computer is not the same as Microsoft's My
Computer, so disabling all icons this way is not what is being talked
about. He will just have to remove all unwanted icons individually as he
has done in XP.
Whether it's linux or windows xp or windows 10, we all do the same things,
so the user interface has no reason to be different in functionality.

In Linux the GUI differs a lot, this for people like to do things in
different ways and you have the freedom to choose which one you use and
in the worst case you can patch the one which is closes to your wishes
to do what you want. As microsft do not listen to it's end customers,
you get a fixed GUI and it changes with version. If you prefer something
more traditional from microsoft, then use microsoft windows 7, it's end
date is January 14, 2020, which should be around when your current
computer is too slow to run programs released for microsoft windows in 2020.

I have a couple examples for you. I have no particular
ax to grind here. The point of this example, is to point
out the difference between the two ecosystems.

I've had installs of Ubuntu here since Ubuntu 7 or so.
I've also successfully tested versions of Mint, and keep
a Mint and a Ubuntu USB key (no persistence casper-rw).

The latest versions, when I install, network manager seems
to find the hardware, and set up networking. The machine
gets a DHCP address. However, if I go to use a browser,
it's obvious there is no DNS.

I enter the Network Manager dialog, add "8.8.8.8" to IPV4 DNS,
so I can have some source of DNS translation that works.
This gave me a working network on the first session
on Ubuntu 17.04, after a hard drive install. I figured
that would be sufficient for future usage.

But, the next time I booted the 17.04 hard drive, it
was obvious there was a DNS problem. I went back to the
Network Manager dialog that allows editing the connection.
My 8.8.8.8 Google DNS entry was still there. I tried
adding a second entry, disconnected the connection and
connected it again. The OS was adamant that the network
was connected, but the browser could not reach anything.

*******

OK, so that can probably be fixed. Without a browser,
it's pretty hard to bootstrap myself and fix that.
Broken networks are a pretty egregious barrier to
entry for new users.

I'm just hoping this is not a QA issue. That's what
bothers me about it. I cannot think of any Windows
installs I've done here, which exactly matched this.
Yes, a driver can be missing, like if you have a
brand new Intel NIC from 2016, and you install Win2K.
You could certainly consider that to be a "defect",
but then I wouldn't be installing such an OS, unless
I had a NIC present in the machine that reasonably
matches the era. I'd install my RealTek 8139 if
I wanted to re-test Win2K (driver CD in hand).

Even older Linux distros, will not work on newer hardware,
but I'm not quoting such experiences, because these
situations are not something you would expect to be
supported. I have a favorite old Knoppix 5.3.1 DVD
that dies while booting, but... that's life. And that's
about the same as running a Win2K install, without
a NIC from the era to make things easier. I don't think
Knoppix really liked my CPU for some reason.

How can we solve the QA issue ?

How can we have a basic working core OS, after a hard drive install ?

I don't care if the DE is pretty or not. I cannot
install an alternate DE without a working network.
Even run in Live Mode, MINT 18.1 and Ubuntu 17.04
have broken networking (no DNS). To install them
properly, I first had to fix networking enough
so the repositories could be online during the
install.

Paul

On Fri, 12 May 2017 08:03:01 +0100, "David B."
wrote:

"Why do you take money out of the pockets of the artist "

The person you are STALKING is NOT an employee of the RIAA.

You are probably too drunk ATM to figure that out for
yourself.
HTH

PS Off Topic STALKING post, *AGAIN*. If you want to STALK and
TROLL do it in your Mac groups.

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:52.0)
[]'s

--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

Paul wrote in news
The latest versions, when I install, network manager seems
to find the hardware, and set up networking. The machine
gets a DHCP address. However, if I go to use a browser,
it's obvious there is no DNS.

All I will say here is that I was tracking down DNS leaks under VPN where
there is a key file on Linux (I forget the exact directory) that is a meld
of one (or two?) other files, which, once you edit (making sure you edit
the right one as the other is overwritten), works fine.

I realize I'm devoid above in hard directories and file names, but that's
the gist of what I recall from fighting DNS issues on Ubuntu years ago.

Sorry not to be of much help.

J.O. Aho wrote in :

In Linux the GUI differs a lot, this for people like to do things in
different ways and you have the freedom to choose which one you use and
in the worst case you can patch the one which is closes to your wishes
to do what you want.

I have used Linux in the past, for a few years, and SunOS/Solaris before
that, and Masscomp DECVMS, etc., before that.

If we skip the command-line interface of Linux (because Microsoft doesn't,
in effect, have one), then I think Linux is not all that different from
Microsoft when we speak about DESKTOP situations.

By that I mean all the Linux desktops do the same thing as do the Microsoft
Windows (and Apple) desktops.

1. They provide menus
2. They provide links to folders
3. They provide links to run applications
etc.

So, fundamentally, I don't really claim that there is any functional
difference in the desktop environment at the user level.

NOTE: At the *customization* level, and the *automation* level, there are
astoundingly huge differences.

As microsft do not listen to it's end customers,
you get a fixed GUI and it changes with version. If you prefer something
more traditional from microsoft, then use microsoft windows 7, it's end
date is January 14, 2020, which should be around when your current
computer is too slow to run programs released for microsoft windows in 2020.

You and I are at different levels, philosophically.
Have I mentioned that we all do essentially the same thing on all desktops?

So, whether it's Linux, or an Apple or Windows whatever, the job it simply
to control the operating system so that it does what you do all day.
1. It runs programs that do stuff
2. It finds and edits and saves files

There's no difference in operating systems for desktops.
They all do the same thing because we all do the same things.

Driving a car is the same for everyone too, getting from point A to B,
but people do drive in different ways and come make a stop at point C
before they arrive to point B.

That's the wrong argument, I think.
Functionally, all cars are the same.

What you're saying is, in effect, that going from point c to point d is
functionally different than going from point a to point b.

I respectfully disagree.

That's like saying editing & saving a Powerpoint file is functionally
different than editing & saving a MS Word file.

To me, functionally, that's simply editing & saving a file.

You and I are at different levels, philosophically.

Use microsoft windows 7 or one of the plenty free alternatives, ReactOS
could be useful in a few years.

You seem to think I'm denigrating Windows 10, but with Windows10+Classic
operating system, I can do what I need to do.

At this point, my needs are just to understand what the Microsoft
philosophy is and whether that makes sense.

If the Microsoft philosophy makes sense, then I try to go with it unless
the Microsoft implementation is just horrid (which is very often the case),
in which case, I don't go with the flow.

Basically, that's where I am now, so there's no need to go to Windows 7
since the Windows10+Classic operating system seems fully functional for
what people do.

On 05/12/2017 12:01 AM, J.O. Aho wrote:

[snip]

If you prefer something
more traditional from microsoft, then use microsoft windows 7, it's end
date is January 14, 2020, which should be around when your current
computer is too slow to run programs released for microsoft windows in 2020.

This "end date" is NOT the end. It's when MS stops providing support. MS
support isn't very helpful to individuals, and has nothing to do with
being able to use the software.

On 05/11/2017 10:24 PM, John & Jane Doe wrote:

[snip]]


The one interface I can't seem to manage (without the instructions, and
sometimes even with them) is my darn Intermedic digital alarm clock from
Lowes.

Intermedic or Intermatic?

Darn that abomination to UI hell!


Some of these things can be really complicated. I have a few Intermatic
units that are very easy to set.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Q: 'Let us pray for understanding and for compassion.' Picard: 'Let us
do no such damn thing.'"