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  #16  
Old February 15th 19, 07:09 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Digital D2 tablet

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

Does anyone here by any chance own a D2 1014 Windows 8.1 tablet?
Reason I ask, mine self discharges to less than half in about a month
and takes 5 or 6 hours to charge up again.
I know the thing is pretty much useless and the company is out of
production so its really isn't worth doing anything with.
Its about 3 years old and has maybe 100 hours of use (never did like
or
use it much).
When you turn off a tablet (or phone), there may still be some things
running. Eg, Bluetooth drivers may be pinging any devices that the
tablet is paired with. You should be able to turn off wi-fi and
Bluetooth, see what happens when you turn them off.
bluetooth doesn't work that way, especially when the computer itself is
off, when nothing would be pinging anything.
I think there are tow meanings of "off" buried in OP. One, power down.
just one. power down is off.

Two, turn off the interface (which may or may not turn off the apps).
what you're calling turning off the interface, otherwise known as sleep
or standby, is not off.
[...]

Groan. Here we go again.

yep, because you're making it into a semantic argument.


Nope, you did that by making a categorical statement that showed quite
plainly that you didn't see a possible ambiguity in meaning. I did.


self-discharge has a well defined meaning, that being the discharge
inherent in the battery chemistry *without* any load. it is not subject
to interpretation nor is it ambiguous, no matter how much you try to
argue otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-discharge
Self-discharge is a phenomenon in batteries in which internal
chemical reactions reduce the stored charge of the battery without
any connection between the electrodes.

in other words, *off*.

when a device is on or in standby, there *is* a load and it will
discharge due to *that*, not self-discharge.

Which is why I was careful to use "may", because I don't know for sure
whether OP's tablet is designed to power down or standby when the off
button is pushed. (It almost certainly powers down, IMO).


he said self-discharge, with no mention of pushing an off button or any
other button:
Reason I ask, mine self discharges to less than half in about a month
and takes 5 or 6 hours to charge up again.


if it was in standby, then he used the wrong term and should not expect
accurate advice.

also, in another post earlier tonight:
In article , Rene Lamontagne
wrote:
By the way Yes, I do a complete shutdown and the screen gives me the
"shutting Down" message before I put it away.


thereby confirming that it's *off*, as i originally said.

I wasn't arguing, either. I was discussing. You know, thinking about
possibilities. Like one does when conversing over dinner. There's no
guarantee that any of it will be apposite. So what? It's entertaining,
and some of it may turn out be useful.


you are indeed arguing and quite combative too.

Now for a few reminders of what's being going on this small corner of
English usage over the last few years:


as usual, you're very confused.

again, self-discharge is a well established technical term whose
meaning has not changed nor will it change any time soon, if ever.

"Turned off" doesn't always mean "powered down" any more.


of course it does.

when airlines required electronic devices to be powered off for takeoff
and landing, the crew was very specific about the difference between
sleep and fully off. several times, i saw flight attendants catch pax
not doing a full shutdown, so they stood there waiting and watching to
confirm it was fully off.

fortunately, that's no longer an issue. now that airlines can profit
from selling wifi access, it's magically safe. funny how that works.

Some tablets
(and pretty well all phones AFAIK) don't power down just by pressing the
on/off button. You have to hold the button down so that the device asks
whether to power down or not.


in other words, turned off is *different* than standby/sleep.

also, the button is often called a sleep/wake button, not an on/off
button.

But from most people's POV, pressing the
on/off button turns the thing off, because the screen goes blank (= the
interface turns off).


then their pov is incorrect and you are once again misusing terms.

the interface and display are *separate* *things. the interface doesn't
turn off, however, the *display* often does.

some devices don't even have a display to turn off, but they do have an
interface, normally remotely accessed via the network, such as a web
server, network router, nas or webcam.

This saves power, because generally speaking the
screen is the power hog.


nope. in general, the cpu is the biggest power hog, which is why it
throttles down when idle and throttles up when running apps, thereby
conserving power.

for a graphic intensive game or video rendering, the battery will drain
very quickly and the device will become quite warm.

backlighting does consume a fair amount of power, however, that depends
on screen type (lcd versus oled), brightness and other factors.

for oled, black pixels do not consume power (thus black), whereas an
lcd needs power for the backlight, no matter what is displayed.

that means the power consumption for a display can vary based on what
is being displayed. for oled, dark mode, where ui elements are black
rather than white, is more power efficient. if the majority of the
screen is black, very little power is being used, even though the
device is in active use.

and actually, the gps is the biggest power hog, however it's normally
off and therefore not a factor, only being powered on when needed.
navigating while on battery power will quickly drain the device.

A lot of people think that closing the laptop turns off the machine.


not many, and those that do think that are incorrect.

Main reason: they have to press the power button to bring up the log-in
screen.


nope. they lift the lid and it wakes, usually to exactly where they
left off. some laptops maintain memory and will instantly wake while
others write memory to ssd/hd to conserve power, resulting in a couple
of seconds to wake.

a full boot from off is normally quite a bit longer, with the
manufacturer's logo being displayed, the os loading, etc.

They don't realise they're logging in from some standby state.


of course they do, since waking is *much* faster than booting from off,
a second or two versus as much as several minutes in some cases.

Or pressing the power button on the remote to turn off the
cable/satellite box, Which goes into standby so's it can record that
show you want to watch later.


that is not off and the cable box likely has an led showing that a
recording is pending.

Nowadays, turning off a device often merely puts it in standby. But from
the user's POV, it's off. Of course, because they can't make it do what
they want until they turn it on again.


not true at all.

a phone in standby is still running apps in the background, including
waiting for phone calls, texts, push notifications, step counter (for
health), navigation and more.

a phone that's off won't do any of that.

See, people use words to mean what they them to mean. Always have. Most
people have little or no trouble recognising and accepting shifts in
meaning. People usually have no trouble with sloppy usage, either. If
they do, they usually ask (more or less politely) for some
clarification. You don't. You attack instead. For some reason, shifts in
meaning upset you. Sloppy usage enrages you.


i'm not the one attacking.

i have *no* problem with sloppy usage and can usually figure out what
was meant.

however, i *do* have a problem with incorrect usage.

if someone went to a doctor and described their symptoms incorrectly,
they would likely get an incorrect diagnosis. that isn't the doctor's
fault. he can only go by what the patient says is wrong.

once again, self-discharge has a very specific meaning.

if it's used incorrectly to describe something *other* than
self-discharge, that is the fault of the person misusing the term.

Tough ****.

Live with it.


that goes for you.

You are simply unable to accept that people use words for meanings you
don't use them for.

i have no problem with that, including your incorrect use of 'turning
off the interface' which makes no sense whatsoever. the interface is
not turned off nor can it be.

[....]

Ah, I see, you don't think of the screen as the interface. Which of
course can turned off without powering down the device.


correct. the screen is not an interface.

you are *very* confused and grossly misusing technical terms.

a screen can display an interface, content or both, or nothing at all.

when watching a movie fullscreen, there is no interface visible but
there is content.

some devices do not have a screen but do have an interface, including a
headless server, wifi router, nas, web cam and other devices, which are
accessed remotely over the network. some devices use a voice interface,
such as alexa, siri, google assistant and cortana.

the same screen can also show different interfaces. for example linux,
windows or macos can all be displayed on the very same screen, either
at the same time via a virtual machine or separately via booting into
each one at different times.

tl;dr two separate concepts.

Well, an interface is whatever it is that enable a human to interact
with and operate some device. Like the buttons and dials on a stove. The
thermostat dial. The steering wheel, foot pedals, levers, window
buttons, etc in a car. The door bell push button. The handle of the shovel.


yep, which is not the same as a screen.

you don't turn off a thermostat or steering wheel, plus a shovel has no
power and can't be turned on or off.

what you can do is turn off the furnace or vehicle *via* the buttons
and dials.

you're very confused on a number of basic concepts.

Words label concepts. Sometimes people use a word to refer to some part
of the concept rather than to the whole. Sometimes people realise the
word applies to things other than one(s) that prompted the invention of
the word. You don't like going beyond some limited set of meanings.


sometimes people use the wrong words and blame others for their own
errors.

Tough ****.

Live with it.


that goes for you.

try learning something for a change.
Ads
  #17  
Old February 15th 19, 08:00 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Digital D2 tablet

nospam wrote:
In article , Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

Make sure it really is powered off. Some netbooks and tablets just go
into very lower power mode but they are still powered. A completely
powered off device won't have any power draw to a still-attached
Bluetooth dongle or to any device on its USB port(s).

You should be /cycling/ the battery at the maintenance intervals, not
just topping it off. Discharge and then charge. Even if the Lion
battery is okay with top offs, some devices own charging logic gets
screwed up unless occasionally it goes through a complete power cycle
which resets or recalibrates the logic. The manual for the D2-961 says:

If the device will not be used for a long period of time, be sure to
discharge and then recharge the battery once a month.

If the device will not be used for a long period of time, be sure to
discharge and then recharge the battery once a month.

They do NOT recommend top offs. They recommend a complete charge cycle.

Hi VangardLH
I went and dug up the manual and read it over and Yes, You are correct,
it says to discharge the battery down to at least 10% and then charge it
fully once a month if not used frequently. Thanks for the heads up.


that's not needed and will actually *reduce* the life of the battery
because it has a fixed number of charge cycles. discharging it for no
reason other than to discharge it is a waste.

every once in a while, run it down, but do so in normal use and only if
the battery indicator is not accurately representing the battery
charge.


There is only one reason to "fully discharge" a lithium
pack, and that's to calibrate the "fuel meter" on the pack.
The metering system already has a term in the equation
that compensates for how many times the pack has been
charged, and calibration is only really necessary after
long periods (years) of usage, where the equation of
state doesn't quite match the unit in question.

Lithium, unlike NiCD, mostly has no memory effect. It's
truly like a gas tank. You can run it from 70% to 60% thousands
of time. And 100% to 0% hundreds of times.

The time spent at the 100% level (such as by leaving the device
plugged in, plus a too-aggressive charging policy by the
charging subsystem), leaves the cells at full voltage for
too long a percentage of the time the cells are alive.

It's better to park the cells at less than 100%.

Some laptops added a charging policy, so two charge
points are defined. 80% and 100%. You select 100% if
heading to class and expecting a 10 hour runtime. You
select 80% if the unit will be left sitting there, unused.
The 80% charge point is achieved, by not doing the "topping
up phase". The charger runs constant current during the first
phase, until the termination voltage is reached. The topping
up phase continues to run at that termination voltage,
but the charge current decreases to around 3-4% by the
end-of-charge. By avoiding that second phase, charging
without top-up leaves 80% or so charge. And that 80% number
or a bit less, is a good level to leave the battery pack
when left in storage.

You don't want to let the battery pack run below 0%, because
then the charger will refuse to charge it again. During the
storage phase, you intervene based on experience of how
fast it discharges. If it drops from 80% to 0% in a month,
then that's really too fast of a drop for any practical
purposes. It should last some number of months longer
than that if healthy and unloaded.

Paul
  #18  
Old February 15th 19, 03:32 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Digital D2 tablet

In article , Paul
wrote:

They do NOT recommend top offs. They recommend a complete charge cycle.
Hi VangardLH
I went and dug up the manual and read it over and Yes, You are correct,
it says to discharge the battery down to at least 10% and then charge it
fully once a month if not used frequently. Thanks for the heads up.


that's not needed and will actually *reduce* the life of the battery
because it has a fixed number of charge cycles. discharging it for no
reason other than to discharge it is a waste.

every once in a while, run it down, but do so in normal use and only if
the battery indicator is not accurately representing the battery
charge.


There is only one reason to "fully discharge" a lithium
pack, and that's to calibrate the "fuel meter" on the pack.


yep.

The metering system already has a term in the equation
that compensates for how many times the pack has been
charged, and calibration is only really necessary after
long periods (years) of usage, where the equation of
state doesn't quite match the unit in question.


yep. run it down every once in a while, as part of actual use.

discharging just for the sake of discharging is a waste and reduces the
useful life of the battery.

Lithium, unlike NiCD, mostly has no memory effect. It's
truly like a gas tank. You can run it from 70% to 60% thousands
of time. And 100% to 0% hundreds of times.


the problem with nicad (and nimh) was overcharging, which was
incorrectly called memory effect.



You don't want to let the battery pack run below 0%, because
then the charger will refuse to charge it again.


it can't run below 0.

there is a protection circuit that shuts down the battery *before* it's
0% because of self-discharge. that way, there's still enough power to
run the protection circuit, but eventually, self-discharge will cause
it to drop to 0 and the protection circuit no longer will operate, at
which point, the battery can't be charged.

During the
storage phase, you intervene based on experience of how
fast it discharges. If it drops from 80% to 0% in a month,
then that's really too fast of a drop for any practical
purposes. It should last some number of months longer
than that if healthy and unloaded.


nonsense. there is no issue on how fast a battery can discharge and is
limited anyway.
  #19  
Old February 15th 19, 04:20 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Digital D2 tablet

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

Does anyone here by any chance own a D2 1014 Windows 8.1 tablet?
Reason I ask, mine self discharges to less than half in about a
month
and takes 5 or 6 hours to charge up again.
I know the thing is pretty much useless and the company is out of
production so its really isn't worth doing anything with.
Its about 3 years old and has maybe 100 hours of use (never did like
or use it much).




Groan. Here we go again.
yep, because you're making it into a semantic argument.
Nope, you did that by making a categorical statement that showed quite
plainly that you didn't see a possible ambiguity in meaning. I did.

self-discharge has a well defined meaning, that being the discharge
inherent in the battery chemistry*without* any load. it is not subject
to interpretation nor is it ambiguous, no matter how much you try to
argue otherwise.



Sure, but it was uncertain until cleared up that the tablet really was
powered down. IOW, OP may have been mistaken about the state of the
tablet, and therefore have used "self-discharge" erroneously.


there was no uncertainty.

he said self-discharge and that he doesn't use the tablet much, with
less than 100 hours use total for something that's several years old.

that would have to be off.

if it was sleeping, it would be off within a week or two due to the
battery draining while keeping it in standby. remember, he said he
doesn't use it much.

People do make innocent mistakes, you know.


yep, they do. nobody said otherwise.

people can only give advice based on the details given.

if their description of the problem is not accurate or omits key
information, then the advice will not be particularly useful (other
than a lucky guess). nothing unusual about that.

Also see Vanguard's post, in which he parses OP's post just as I did:
maybe OP was mistaken about the tablet's state, and therefore was
mistaken about its self-discharge time. NB that Vanguard, recognising a
possible ambiguity or uncertainty, politely suggests OP check to ensure
the tablet really is powered down.


there you go with another attack.
  #20  
Old February 15th 19, 05:14 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,549
Default Digital D2 tablet

On 02/15/2019 8:45 AM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2019-02-15 01:09, nospam wrote:
In , Wolf
wrote:

Does anyone here by any chance own a D2 1014 Windows 8.1 tablet?
Reason I ask, mine self discharges to less than half in about
a month
and takes 5 or 6 hours to charge up again.
I know the thing is pretty much useless and the company is out of
production so its really isn't worth doing anything with.
Its about 3 years old and has maybe 100 hours of use (never
did like
or
use it much).
When you turn off a tablet (or phone), there may still be some
things
running. Eg, Bluetooth drivers may be pinging any devices that the
tablet is paired with. You should be able to turn off wi-fi and
Bluetooth, see what happens when you turn them off.
bluetooth doesn't work that way, especially when the computer
itself is
off, when nothing would be pinging anything.
I think there are tow meanings of "off" buried in OP. One, power
down.
just one. power down is off.

Two, turn off the interface (which may or may not turn off the
apps).
what you're calling turning off the interface, otherwise known as
sleep
or standby, is not off.
[...]

Groan. Here we go again.
yep, because you're making it into a semantic argument.
Nope, you did that by making a categorical statement that showed quite
plainly that you didn't see a possible ambiguity in meaning. I did.

self-discharge has a well defined meaning, that being the discharge
inherent in the battery chemistry*without*Â* any load. it is not subject
to interpretation nor is it ambiguous, no matter how much you try to
argue otherwise.



Sure, but it was uncertain until cleared up that the tablet really was
powered down. IOW, OP may have been mistaken about the state of the
tablet, and therefore have used "self-discharge" erroneously.

People do make innocent mistakes, you know.

Also see Vanguard's post, in which he parses OP's post just as I did:
maybe OP was mistaken about the tablet's state, and therefore was
mistaken about its self-discharge time. NB that Vanguard, recognising a
possible ambiguity or uncertainty, politely suggests OP check to ensure
the tablet really is powered down.

Have a frabjous day,


Did you notice that nospam doesn't know how to spell a capitol I ?

*self discharge* is when nospam goes to bed with a sex problem and
wakes up with A solution in hand!

Rene


  #21  
Old February 15th 19, 05:36 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,549
Default Digital D2 tablet

On 02/14/2019 11:35 PM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:

Hi VangardLH
I went and dug up the manual and read it over and Yes, You are
correct, it says to discharge the battery down to at least 10% and
then charge it fully once a month if not used frequently. Thanks for
the heads up.
Â*By the way Yes, I do a complete shutdown and the screen gives me the
"shutting Down" message before I put it away.

Rene


Is the boot time consistent with something coming out of cold storage ?

Hibernation would hibernate kernel+session. No power to RAM.

Hybrid hibernation keeps the RAM running and keeps kernel+session.

Fast Boot is Hibernation with only kernel in the hiberfile.

Sleep, on DRAM, keeps power to the RAM, about 1W per stick
in auto-refresh.

If you have Device Manager devices set for "wake" conditions,
that could use power. A NIC with WOL (core powered). A Wifi with WOL.
A keyboard or mouse set to wake the computer. "WakeTimers" should
be coupled to the RTC (BIOS clock) waking timer
(system wakes up and then figures out why it is awake). And
that runs off the RTC battery if no other power is available.

*******

The battery in my laptop is lithium and lasts for months.
Because, I pull the battery, making no shenanigans possible.
This also means though, that the RTC battery is being
consumed, as the main battery is not there as an
alternative.

I leave 70-80% charge in the battery, as the longer you leave
it at full charge and "max" cell potential, the harder it is
on the battery.

If a multi-cell pack goes below the min_voltage, the charger
won't charge it.

If a digital device uses a single cell (like my digital camera),
those can be run completely flat, because there is no way for them
to get reverse biased. Multicell packs have a min_voltage,
on the premise that the healthier cells will cause the weakest
cell to have reverse bias applied (effectively minus on the plus
terminal). And that can plate out metal. Then making it unsafe
to charge the battery again. The 0% charge level is defined
in terms of an operational limit that probably has not
reverse-biased the weakest cell in the pack.

You'd want to do two things.

1) Find out what is using power when it is shut down.
2) Charge to 80% before putting it away again.

Batteries aren't usually removable on tablets, so figuring
this out for (1) and dealing with it from Device Manager,
will be a real technical challenge.

Â*Â* Paul


Yes it's impossible to do a battery current draw test on a tablet
without a teardown so I have to assume that the "shutting down"
memo means it's truly *OFF*
Also I have hibernation turned off also, Anyway I won't loose too much
sleep over it as I don't really use it much, its mainly a toy to play
with when I'm bored.

Rene

  #22  
Old February 15th 19, 06:02 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
123456789[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 239
Default Digital D2 tablet

On 2/15/2019 12:00 AM, Paul wrote:

There is only one reason to "fully discharge" a lithium pack...


The time spent at the 100% level (such as by leaving the device
plugged in...


It's better to park the cells at less than 100%...


select 80% if the unit will be left sitting there...


Rules, rules, rules. In real life most people (and me) don't worry about
the battery and they generally outlast the life of the device. My phone
sits on the charger all night every night and so far I've noticed no
difference and it's almost 3 years old. I've had only one battery
failure over the years where an iPhone's battery blew up like a balloon,
cracking open the case, and I doubt that was due to charging problems.
Life's too short (especially at our age) to worry about timing battery
charging timing. Editorial mode off. As always YMMV...
  #23  
Old February 15th 19, 06:02 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Digital D2 tablet

Rene Lamontagne wrote:

On 02/14/2019 11:35 PM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:

Hi VangardLH
I went and dug up the manual and read it over and Yes, You are
correct, it says to discharge the battery down to at least 10% and
then charge it fully once a month if not used frequently. Thanks for
the heads up.
*By the way Yes, I do a complete shutdown and the screen gives me the
"shutting Down" message before I put it away.

Rene


Is the boot time consistent with something coming out of cold storage ?

Hibernation would hibernate kernel+session. No power to RAM.

Hybrid hibernation keeps the RAM running and keeps kernel+session.

Fast Boot is Hibernation with only kernel in the hiberfile.

Sleep, on DRAM, keeps power to the RAM, about 1W per stick
in auto-refresh.

If you have Device Manager devices set for "wake" conditions,
that could use power. A NIC with WOL (core powered). A Wifi with WOL.
A keyboard or mouse set to wake the computer. "WakeTimers" should
be coupled to the RTC (BIOS clock) waking timer
(system wakes up and then figures out why it is awake). And
that runs off the RTC battery if no other power is available.

*******

The battery in my laptop is lithium and lasts for months.
Because, I pull the battery, making no shenanigans possible.
This also means though, that the RTC battery is being
consumed, as the main battery is not there as an
alternative.

I leave 70-80% charge in the battery, as the longer you leave
it at full charge and "max" cell potential, the harder it is
on the battery.

If a multi-cell pack goes below the min_voltage, the charger
won't charge it.

If a digital device uses a single cell (like my digital camera),
those can be run completely flat, because there is no way for them
to get reverse biased. Multicell packs have a min_voltage,
on the premise that the healthier cells will cause the weakest
cell to have reverse bias applied (effectively minus on the plus
terminal). And that can plate out metal. Then making it unsafe
to charge the battery again. The 0% charge level is defined
in terms of an operational limit that probably has not
reverse-biased the weakest cell in the pack.

You'd want to do two things.

1) Find out what is using power when it is shut down.
2) Charge to 80% before putting it away again.

Batteries aren't usually removable on tablets, so figuring
this out for (1) and dealing with it from Device Manager,
will be a real technical challenge.

** Paul


Yes it's impossible to do a battery current draw test on a tablet
without a teardown so I have to assume that the "shutting down"
memo means it's truly *OFF*
Also I have hibernation turned off also, Anyway I won't loose too much
sleep over it as I don't really use it much, its mainly a toy to play
with when I'm bored.

Rene


Yeah, even a Slinky can be fun, too -- for a couple minutes.
  #24  
Old February 15th 19, 06:08 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Digital D2 tablet

In article , 123456789
wrote:


There is only one reason to "fully discharge" a lithium pack...


The time spent at the 100% level (such as by leaving the device
plugged in...


It's better to park the cells at less than 100%...


select 80% if the unit will be left sitting there...


Rules, rules, rules. In real life most people (and me) don't worry about
the battery and they generally outlast the life of the device. My phone
sits on the charger all night every night and so far I've noticed no
difference and it's almost 3 years old. I've had only one battery
failure over the years where an iPhone's battery blew up like a balloon,
cracking open the case, and I doubt that was due to charging problems.
Life's too short (especially at our age) to worry about timing battery
charging timing. Editorial mode off. As always YMMV...


exactly correct.

modern lithium ion batteries are rated to last 5 years at 80%, which is
still very usable.

of course, there's always a small number that will prematurely fail and
some that last much longer.
  #25  
Old February 15th 19, 06:18 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Rene Lamontagne
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Default Digital D2 tablet

On 02/15/2019 11:02 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:

On 02/14/2019 11:35 PM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:

Hi VangardLH
I went and dug up the manual and read it over and Yes, You are
correct, it says to discharge the battery down to at least 10% and
then charge it fully once a month if not used frequently. Thanks for
the heads up.
Â*By the way Yes, I do a complete shutdown and the screen gives me the
"shutting Down" message before I put it away.

Rene

Is the boot time consistent with something coming out of cold storage ?

Hibernation would hibernate kernel+session. No power to RAM.

Hybrid hibernation keeps the RAM running and keeps kernel+session.

Fast Boot is Hibernation with only kernel in the hiberfile.

Sleep, on DRAM, keeps power to the RAM, about 1W per stick
in auto-refresh.

If you have Device Manager devices set for "wake" conditions,
that could use power. A NIC with WOL (core powered). A Wifi with WOL.
A keyboard or mouse set to wake the computer. "WakeTimers" should
be coupled to the RTC (BIOS clock) waking timer
(system wakes up and then figures out why it is awake). And
that runs off the RTC battery if no other power is available.

*******

The battery in my laptop is lithium and lasts for months.
Because, I pull the battery, making no shenanigans possible.
This also means though, that the RTC battery is being
consumed, as the main battery is not there as an
alternative.

I leave 70-80% charge in the battery, as the longer you leave
it at full charge and "max" cell potential, the harder it is
on the battery.

If a multi-cell pack goes below the min_voltage, the charger
won't charge it.

If a digital device uses a single cell (like my digital camera),
those can be run completely flat, because there is no way for them
to get reverse biased. Multicell packs have a min_voltage,
on the premise that the healthier cells will cause the weakest
cell to have reverse bias applied (effectively minus on the plus
terminal). And that can plate out metal. Then making it unsafe
to charge the battery again. The 0% charge level is defined
in terms of an operational limit that probably has not
reverse-biased the weakest cell in the pack.

You'd want to do two things.

1) Find out what is using power when it is shut down.
2) Charge to 80% before putting it away again.

Batteries aren't usually removable on tablets, so figuring
this out for (1) and dealing with it from Device Manager,
will be a real technical challenge.

Â*Â* Paul


Yes it's impossible to do a battery current draw test on a tablet
without a teardown so I have to assume that the "shutting down"
memo means it's truly *OFF*
Also I have hibernation turned off also, Anyway I won't loose too much
sleep over it as I don't really use it much, its mainly a toy to play
with when I'm bored.

Rene


Yeah, even a Slinky can be fun, too -- for a couple minutes.


Yeah, I used to enjoy watching it walk down the stairs ( even as an
Adult). :-)

Rene

  #26  
Old February 16th 19, 11:35 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
wasbit[_4_]
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Default Digital D2 tablet

"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...

Snip
If the device will not be used for a long period of time, be sure to
discharge and then recharge the battery once a month.

If the device will not be used for a long period of time, be sure to
discharge and then recharge the battery once a month.

They do NOT recommend top offs. They recommend a complete charge cycle.


Is there a method for discharging the battery?

--
Regards
wasbit

  #27  
Old February 16th 19, 03:13 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Digital D2 tablet

In article , wasbit
wrote:

Is there a method for discharging the battery?


use it normally.
  #28  
Old February 16th 19, 06:27 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Default Digital D2 tablet

wasbit wrote:

VanguardLH wrote ...

If the device will not be used for a long period of time, be sure to
discharge and then recharge the battery once a month.

If the device will not be used for a long period of time, be sure to
discharge and then recharge the battery once a month.

They do NOT recommend top offs. They recommend a complete charge cycle.


Is there a method for discharging the battery?


Disable power options and leave it on?
  #29  
Old February 16th 19, 06:29 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Default Digital D2 tablet

Wolf K wrote:
On 2019-02-16 05:35, wasbit wrote:
"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...

Snip
If the device will not be used for a long period of time, be sure to
discharge and then recharge the battery once a month.

If the device will not be used for a long period of time, be sure to
discharge and then recharge the battery once a month.

They do NOT recommend top offs. They recommend a complete charge cycle.


Is there a method for discharging the battery?



Use the tablet. Like, play a long video, for example.


You could run Prime95 and Furmark on an ordinary computer
and draw lots of power, but tablets are power and thermally
limited and that's so they won't need a fan for cooling.

It's pretty hard to accelerate battery drain when the
CPU has an SDP of 2W. They can turbo for maybe 15 seconds
and then the limiters will cut in, dropping power drain
rate.

And there aren't enough USB ports to drain one that way
(2.5W per USB2 port).

Paul
  #30  
Old February 16th 19, 07:58 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Frank Slootweg
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Posts: 1,226
Default Digital D2 tablet

Wolf K wrote:
On 2019-02-15 01:09, nospam wrote:
In , Wolf
wrote:

Does anyone here by any chance own a D2 1014 Windows 8.1
tablet?
Reason I ask, mine self discharges to less than half in
about a month and takes 5 or 6 hours to charge up again. I
know the thing is pretty much useless and the company is out
of production so its really isn't worth doing anything with.
Its about 3 years old and has maybe 100 hours of use (never
did like or use it much).
When you turn off a tablet (or phone), there may still be some things
running. Eg, Bluetooth drivers may be pinging any devices that the
tablet is paired with. You should be able to turn off wi-fi and
Bluetooth, see what happens when you turn them off.
bluetooth doesn't work that way, especially when the computer
itself is off, when nothing would be pinging anything.
I think there are tow meanings of "off" buried in OP. One, power down.
just one. power down is off.

Two, turn off the interface (which may or may not turn off the apps).
what you're calling turning off the interface, otherwise known as sleep
or standby, is not off.
[...]

Groan. Here we go again.
yep, because you're making it into a semantic argument.
Nope, you did that by making a categorical statement that showed quite
plainly that you didn't see a possible ambiguity in meaning. I did.

self-discharge has a well defined meaning, that being the discharge
inherent in the battery chemistry*without* any load. it is not subject
to interpretation nor is it ambiguous, no matter how much you try to
argue otherwise.


Sure, but it was uncertain until cleared up that the tablet really was
powered down. IOW, OP may have been mistaken about the state of the
tablet, and therefore have used "self-discharge" erroneously.


What makes it really funny is that when defending his close-minded
positions, he makes error after error and utters yet more close-minded
opinions.

Clue-by-four: "*without* any load"

People do make innocent mistakes, you know.

Also see Vanguard's post, in which he parses OP's post just as I did:
maybe OP was mistaken about the tablet's state, and therefore was
mistaken about its self-discharge time. NB that Vanguard, recognising a
possible ambiguity or uncertainty, politely suggests OP check to ensure
the tablet really is powered down.

Have a frabjous day,


We will, as long as you guys are passing the popcorn around!
 




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