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  #16  
Old November 29th 08, 12:59 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mike Hall - MVP[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 453
Default Stolen PC

"Phil" wrote in message
...
Mike,

Thanks. This area is a mine field - here is what I have learnt today -
I'm
sorry if it sounds like I am getting at you but your post seems wrong.

OEM Windows IS NOT FREE - essentially or not MS gets money from every OEM
sale (probably $20-$30 for XP Home). We (consumers) pay for that.

I am sure you know that there is no technical reason for MS not to allow
OEM
software to be transferred - it is not like the integrated software that
controls a DVD player. Windows is separate from the PC - it is only for
business reasons that they are sold together (and perhaps 10% of the time
they are not bundled).

So this is simply a business practice. Providing OEM windows is a benefit
for the consumer, the reseller and MS - it is a win-win (no pun intended)
situation - actually it has been wildly successful. So much so that
consumers mistakenly think like you do - that Windows is free, which makes
non-OEM pricing such a huge shock. And is a big issue for MS as I am sure
they would like to switch to a software-as-a-service model (like
antivirus).

So, I can understand (and see some logic) to OEM software not being
transferable (supposedly because of the heavy discount) but irreparable
damage or stolen PCs should be an exception. It costs MS nothing to do
this
and the harm to MS is huge as it encourages software piracy. Let me
explain.

My son cannot afford to buy a new PC yet - when he can from his part time
job he will probably get one with OEM Vista. So between now and maybe 6
months I have given him an old PC so he can access the web and do his
school
work - this PC has a legal version of Windows 98 but most of his apps
(including MS-Office) won't run with Win-98. So he needs XP and his
choices
are $90 for a legal version (that will be useless in 6 months time) or $5
for
a pirated version. Hence, MS encourages software piracy.

It's a bad policy - MS should make exceptions but they won't just like I
won't be able to persuade my son that using pirated software is wrong.
C'est
la vie.


"Mike Hall - MVP" wrote:

"Phil" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the help.

Sadly insurance is not an option - what with excess, depreciation and
loss
of no claims it makes no sense. Police are not interested - we know
who
the
thief is as he advertised some of the stolen goods and we traced it to
him -
informed the case officer but it seems it is too small a crime for them
to
bother. Who says crime doesn't pay?

Just checked the link given and it says that if your PC is stolen then
the
Windows software is gone too. That's a pretty unfriendly business
practice -
why would they do that? There must be a tiny number of people who get
their
PCs stolen and legitimately want to reinstall Windows on a new PC which
doesn't have Windows already preinstalled. This just adds insult to
injury.



OEM software is part of the computer package, and you get it for free
essentially. When you replace the computer, it too will be supplied with
OEM
software.

The only trackable computers are Macs. I understand that the Mac
registration process enables Mac repairers to bring lawful owners and
stolen
machines back together. PC's are not registered at all, only the
operating
system, which could be taken off and installed on another machine that is
not 'hot'..


--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default...help&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx







Phil

I used the word 'essentially' for a reason. Were you to go out and buy a
barebones tower, and keyboard, mouse, monitor etc of the same quality as say
HP, you would realize that the OS part of a computer deal is essentially
free.

The terms of OEM is that the computer manufacturer is WHOLLY responsible, so
claim off of the manufacturer. They will ask for proof and you will find it
difficult to get any that sticks.. I have no doubt that they will tell you
you claim off of insurance.

It is unfortunate that your son does not have the funds to get a new
computer or software for your older computer, and that you don't have a
spare Vista machine kicking around, but they are not the fault or
responsibility of either Microsoft or the manufacturer.

Try upgrading the RAM in the Windows 98 machine to 256mb, and your son will
be able to legally download Ubuntu which includes Open Office. he will then
be able to continue his work..

--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default...help&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx




Ads
  #17  
Old November 29th 08, 02:00 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Xandros[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 184
Default Stolen PC


"Phil" wrote in message
...
My son's PC was stolen along with all the software. I'm trying to find
out
if I have to buy everything again. Does anyone know Microsoft policy on
this?

It was an HP PC so with OEM Windows XP home. I have no disks - only a
record of the product key. I guess I just have to buy a new licence.

Also do MS keep a record of stolen product keys? Not sure if this would
stop the thief from using the PC?


Phil why don't you teach Microsoft a lesson and the next system you buy
install Linux instead?

--

Xandros


  #18  
Old November 29th 08, 02:16 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Snidley W.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Stolen PC

Phil wrote:

The rudeness I completeley agree with you on and thank you for pointing this
out - I cannot find any moderator to bring this up with but will keep looking.


The chance one takes when they post in an unmoderated group - and
Usenet it completey unmoderated - is that one will get feathers
ruffled. You would hardly expect someone who chose "Snidely" as a
name to post as "Mr. Rogers" would post... or would you?

In the interest of accuracy, I will, however, retract my assertion
that your question was stupid.

I will change it and say anyone who would ask such a question is
stupid.
  #19  
Old November 29th 08, 02:21 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Snidley W.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Stolen PC

Phil wrote:

I hope this board is moderated


Once again your hopes are dashed.

You're not doing very well today, are you!?
  #20  
Old November 29th 08, 06:39 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
No_Name
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Stolen PC

Hello there I was just researching other info and came across your discussion.
A silly question but did you purchase the pc or laptop on a credit card that
covers losses like visa/mastercard does for everything? Its worth a look
into as for example they tell me they cover damages losses extend warranties
etc.
Upon getting another pc or laptop up and running....
My fathers laptop was stolen from the farm and thats all that was
taken-figure that out while he's out for a bite to eat? We got him to get a
program that traces the pc laptop www.lojackforlaptops.com. We understood it
tracks the laptop -so its on the new pc or laptop and who ever takes off with
it somehow is traced via the software company lojack/police ...there is a
trial with most pc's and laptop's but people do not stop and slow down and
read the information appearing -upon startup most times and miss out on
"helpful" software.
Just trying to help,
Jen A
Waterloo ON Canada.....hope the weather stays warm! : )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

Inline

Phil wrote:
My son's PC was stolen along with all the software. I'm trying to find
out
if I have to buy everything again.


Yes, unless your insurance covers some of it.

Does anyone know Microsoft policy on
this?


No.

It was an HP PC so with OEM Windows XP home. I have no disks - only a
record of the product key. I guess I just have to buy a new licence.


At minimum, yes.

Also do MS keep a record of stolen product keys? Not sure if this would
stop the thief from using the PC?


Nope. Probably not.


  #21  
Old November 29th 08, 03:15 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Phil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 279
Default Stolen PC

Mike,

Thanks - Dell used to sell PCs for $30 less than the same PC with OEM
Windows XP Home - not sure if they still do. Selling it for $30 is 1000%+
gain over marginal cost.

You use the word "fault" as if I am saying it is Microsoft's fault that my
son's PC was stolen. I am sure you don't mean that and I'm certainly not
claiming that. However, to find that the OS is the only piece of software
which I am not able to transfer is the fault of Microsoft and I have yet to
see a good answer to why they would do that (in the case of a stolen PC).

Interestingly I have found that getting around the WPA is relatively easy
and even MS will provide support for OEM problems i.e. they are currently
helping me and perhaps they will allow the transfer this time. It seems MS
are not as evil as their licence agreements appear. I have also been told
that non-OEM Vista has a one time transfer policy. Didn't Apple try
something like this with iTunes? Another lesson MS needs to learn from
Apple, I guess.

Thanks for the tip about Ubuntu - another poster suggested Linux as well.
However, the investment in both time and money in other Windows based apps is
significant. MS is well aware that switching costs are incredibly high,
hence these anti-loyalty business practices - I am sure they will change (not
because of anything I say or do). Bad business practices eventually change
(or the business dies) - MS is no exception.

Phil

"Mike Hall - MVP" wrote:

Phil

I used the word 'essentially' for a reason. Were you to go out and buy a
barebones tower, and keyboard, mouse, monitor etc of the same quality as say
HP, you would realize that the OS part of a computer deal is essentially
free.

The terms of OEM is that the computer manufacturer is WHOLLY responsible, so
claim off of the manufacturer. They will ask for proof and you will find it
difficult to get any that sticks.. I have no doubt that they will tell you
you claim off of insurance.

It is unfortunate that your son does not have the funds to get a new
computer or software for your older computer, and that you don't have a
spare Vista machine kicking around, but they are not the fault or
responsibility of either Microsoft or the manufacturer.

Try upgrading the RAM in the Windows 98 machine to 256mb, and your son will
be able to legally download Ubuntu which includes Open Office. he will then
be able to continue his work..

--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default...help&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx





  #22  
Old November 29th 08, 04:20 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Phil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 279
Default Stolen PC

db,

All good ideas (except fighting fire with fire). Taking the law into our
own hands would probably work - I'm just not prepared to do that for
something like this. The "punk" is a young adult professional thief and drug
addict - known to the police. He lives in an inner city ghetto - tower
blocks where even the police don't like to visit - shootings are common
place. They target students - there have been over 30 laptop thefts from
student residences since Sept. - which is why my son had a desktop PC but
that didn't stop the thief. So far there is no violent (against a person)
crime involved but he is known to associate with others who are violent.
This is an area of society that I don't belong in - I support our police and
community workers who are trying to solve these problems, I don't want to be
part of the problem.

My son is a student - no credit cards, no online banking or other accounts.
Adding passwords is not really an issue (and won't slow down a thief) - doing
regular backups is and he has learnt that lesson. Losing these files is an
inconvenience rather than a financial loss. Actually the only file which has
cost him money is an assignment that was due - he had to pay for a copy of
the police report to prove to his professor that the PC was stolen in order
to get an extension on the deadline. (No-one trusts anyone anymore.)

To pursue a civil action we would have to serve the thief with a summons,
have proof of the stolen goods and the thief would have to show up to court.
Failing to show up is not a criminal offence and even if judgement went in
our favour there would be no way to collect. Bailiffs would not be able to
sieze any property (as there is no way to know what property the thief owns)
and our stolen goods have most likely been pawned off already for rent and
drug money. The police and courts are losing this battle in all our inner
cities - whilst my son met with our detective friend over a 20 minute period
he was handed three crime reports - one arrest of a 14 year old youth with
sub-machine gun and two arrests for homicides. A stolen PC does not figure
on his priorities. The solution is with education, employment, housing,
health and other social services - then the police might have a chance.

Phil

"db.·.. ))) ·` .. ." wrote:

well, as far as everyone
is concerned the pc also
has credit card numbers
and other account data.

so you might want to ensure
your creditors are made aware
of the compromise.

-----------
your son and his friends
don't have to knock the door
down, but isn't a bad idea.

however, one has to fight fire
with fire.

perhaps, your son and friends
should develop a plan, like order
a pizza for the punk and when
he opens the door, the gang can
boldly walk in and retrieve the
stolen property.

might also get the dean
of the college involved if
the punk is a college student.

-----------

remember to put passwords
on the new computer, like
on the bios, the disk and
of course the administrator.
--

in regards to civil action,
all it requires is a witness
to confirm that the punk
has the computer and then
you would send a letter to
the parents demanding the
computers return or you will
sue them.

if the punk is a student
then it is likely the school
administrators will provide
you with assistance.


db·´¯`·...¸)))º
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces

"Phil" wrote in message ...
DatabaseBen,

Thanks for the advice. The case officer is not getting a free ride (but
pretty close to one). I, very politely, chase him every few days - the thief
is proving difficult to catch (my guess is that he is not at home during the
case officer's shift or doesn't answer the door bell). This is a big city
and the amount of time an officer can put to a simple robbery is very small.
I'm not making excuses just stating facts. Very few robberies of this nature
are investigated - this one has been only because my son tracked down the
thief and we know a detective at the station.

As to civil action - I don't know how we would do that - we have no real
proof. It took me an hour persuading my son not to go round and make a
citizen's arrest. He (and half his college football team) wanted to kick the
guys door down and recover the stolen goods (the PC being the most important
as it contains hundreds of photos and personal documents which can't be
recovered - no recent backups of course). It is frustrating that the only
solution seems to be to behave as badly as the criminal (he did kick my son's
door down) - which I'm not prepared to do.

Anyway this is a whole different issue - maybe the police in your area are
able to deal with these types of crime (I'd be very surprised and if so we
should all move there).

Thanks again,
Phil

"db.·.. ))) ·` .. ." wrote:

in one respect i understand
what you are stating.

however, i disagree with
giving your local law enforcement
a free ride by not forcing them
to do their job.

all thefts must be reported and
the police must take action.

therefore, you should raise hell
with them and your councilman.

in addition, since you have an
idea of who the culprit it, then
this would make the job of the
police easier.

the value of the item is based
differently than for insurance
purposes.

therefore, if your machine was
purchased for several thousand
dollars, then this is larceny.

if there was breaking and entering
or trespassing, then this is also
a crime.

in addition to the above criminal
charges, you also have rights in
civil court.

--

db·´¯`·...¸)))º
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces

"Phil" wrote in message ...
Thanks for the help.

Sadly insurance is not an option - what with excess, depreciation and loss
of no claims it makes no sense. Police are not interested - we know who the
thief is as he advertised some of the stolen goods and we traced it to him -
informed the case officer but it seems it is too small a crime for them to
bother. Who says crime doesn't pay?

Just checked the link given and it says that if your PC is stolen then the
Windows software is gone too. That's a pretty unfriendly business practice -
why would they do that? There must be a tiny number of people who get their
PCs stolen and legitimately want to reinstall Windows on a new PC which
doesn't have Windows already preinstalled. This just adds insult to injury.




  #23  
Old November 29th 08, 04:38 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Richard in AZ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,051
Default Stolen PC

In general, for all owners of any computer.
Download and run Belarc Adviser (www.belarc.com) and print out the results.
This free program will record every hardware serial number and every software Product Code number in
the computer.
File this printout for reference.
It certainly will help if the computer is actually located to prove that it is yours.
Also if you do have insurance coverage, you now have proof of value.


"Phil" wrote in message
...
| db,
|
| All good ideas (except fighting fire with fire). Taking the law into our
| own hands would probably work - I'm just not prepared to do that for
| something like this. The "punk" is a young adult professional thief and drug
| addict - known to the police. He lives in an inner city ghetto - tower
| blocks where even the police don't like to visit - shootings are common
| place. They target students - there have been over 30 laptop thefts from
| student residences since Sept. - which is why my son had a desktop PC but
| that didn't stop the thief. So far there is no violent (against a person)
| crime involved but he is known to associate with others who are violent.
| This is an area of society that I don't belong in - I support our police and
| community workers who are trying to solve these problems, I don't want to be
| part of the problem.
|
| My son is a student - no credit cards, no online banking or other accounts.
| Adding passwords is not really an issue (and won't slow down a thief) - doing
| regular backups is and he has learnt that lesson. Losing these files is an
| inconvenience rather than a financial loss. Actually the only file which has
| cost him money is an assignment that was due - he had to pay for a copy of
| the police report to prove to his professor that the PC was stolen in order
| to get an extension on the deadline. (No-one trusts anyone anymore.)
|
| To pursue a civil action we would have to serve the thief with a summons,
| have proof of the stolen goods and the thief would have to show up to court.
| Failing to show up is not a criminal offence and even if judgement went in
| our favour there would be no way to collect. Bailiffs would not be able to
| sieze any property (as there is no way to know what property the thief owns)
| and our stolen goods have most likely been pawned off already for rent and
| drug money. The police and courts are losing this battle in all our inner
| cities - whilst my son met with our detective friend over a 20 minute period
| he was handed three crime reports - one arrest of a 14 year old youth with
| sub-machine gun and two arrests for homicides. A stolen PC does not figure
| on his priorities. The solution is with education, employment, housing,
| health and other social services - then the police might have a chance.
|
| Phil
|
| "db.·.. ))) ·` .. ." wrote:
|
| well, as far as everyone
| is concerned the pc also
| has credit card numbers
| and other account data.
|
| so you might want to ensure
| your creditors are made aware
| of the compromise.
|
| -----------
| your son and his friends
| don't have to knock the door
| down, but isn't a bad idea.
|
| however, one has to fight fire
| with fire.
|
| perhaps, your son and friends
| should develop a plan, like order
| a pizza for the punk and when
| he opens the door, the gang can
| boldly walk in and retrieve the
| stolen property.
|
| might also get the dean
| of the college involved if
| the punk is a college student.
|
| -----------
|
| remember to put passwords
| on the new computer, like
| on the bios, the disk and
| of course the administrator.
| --
|
| in regards to civil action,
| all it requires is a witness
| to confirm that the punk
| has the computer and then
| you would send a letter to
| the parents demanding the
| computers return or you will
| sue them.
|
| if the punk is a student
| then it is likely the school
| administrators will provide
| you with assistance.
|
|
| db·´¯`·...¸)))º
| DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
| - Systems Analyst
| - Database Developer
| - Accountancy
| - Veteran of the Armed Forces
|
| "Phil" wrote in message
...
| DatabaseBen,
|
| Thanks for the advice. The case officer is not getting a free ride (but
| pretty close to one). I, very politely, chase him every few days - the thief
| is proving difficult to catch (my guess is that he is not at home during the
| case officer's shift or doesn't answer the door bell). This is a big city
| and the amount of time an officer can put to a simple robbery is very small.
| I'm not making excuses just stating facts. Very few robberies of this nature
| are investigated - this one has been only because my son tracked down the
| thief and we know a detective at the station.
|
| As to civil action - I don't know how we would do that - we have no real
| proof. It took me an hour persuading my son not to go round and make a
| citizen's arrest. He (and half his college football team) wanted to kick the
| guys door down and recover the stolen goods (the PC being the most important
| as it contains hundreds of photos and personal documents which can't be
| recovered - no recent backups of course). It is frustrating that the only
| solution seems to be to behave as badly as the criminal (he did kick my son's
| door down) - which I'm not prepared to do.
|
| Anyway this is a whole different issue - maybe the police in your area are
| able to deal with these types of crime (I'd be very surprised and if so we
| should all move there).
|
| Thanks again,
| Phil
|
| "db.·.. ))) ·` .. ." wrote:
|
| in one respect i understand
| what you are stating.
|
| however, i disagree with
| giving your local law enforcement
| a free ride by not forcing them
| to do their job.
|
| all thefts must be reported and
| the police must take action.
|
| therefore, you should raise hell
| with them and your councilman.
|
| in addition, since you have an
| idea of who the culprit it, then
| this would make the job of the
| police easier.
|
| the value of the item is based
| differently than for insurance
| purposes.
|
| therefore, if your machine was
| purchased for several thousand
| dollars, then this is larceny.
|
| if there was breaking and entering
| or trespassing, then this is also
| a crime.
|
| in addition to the above criminal
| charges, you also have rights in
| civil court.
|
| --
|
| db·´¯`·...¸)))º
| DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
| - Systems Analyst
| - Database Developer
| - Accountancy
| - Veteran of the Armed Forces
|
| "Phil" wrote in message
...
| Thanks for the help.
|
| Sadly insurance is not an option - what with excess, depreciation and loss
| of no claims it makes no sense. Police are not interested - we know who the
| thief is as he advertised some of the stolen goods and we traced it to him -
| informed the case officer but it seems it is too small a crime for them to
| bother. Who says crime doesn't pay?
|
| Just checked the link given and it says that if your PC is stolen then the
| Windows software is gone too. That's a pretty unfriendly business practice -
| why would they do that? There must be a tiny number of people who get their
| PCs stolen and legitimately want to reinstall Windows on a new PC which
| doesn't have Windows already preinstalled. This just adds insult to injury.
|
|
|
|


  #24  
Old November 29th 08, 04:44 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Phil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 279
Default Stolen PC

Jen A,

Thanks. Yes it was purchased by credit card - 3+ years ago so I'm not sure
if it is covered but I'll check.

I'll look into "lojack" - they claim 75% recovery rate which if true is very
impressive.

Thanks again,
Phil

" wrote:

Hello there I was just researching other info and came across your discussion.
A silly question but did you purchase the pc or laptop on a credit card that
covers losses like visa/mastercard does for everything? Its worth a look
into as for example they tell me they cover damages losses extend warranties
etc.
Upon getting another pc or laptop up and running....
My fathers laptop was stolen from the farm and thats all that was
taken-figure that out while he's out for a bite to eat? We got him to get a
program that traces the pc laptop www.lojackforlaptops.com. We understood it
tracks the laptop -so its on the new pc or laptop and who ever takes off with
it somehow is traced via the software company lojack/police ...there is a
trial with most pc's and laptop's but people do not stop and slow down and
read the information appearing -upon startup most times and miss out on
"helpful" software.
Just trying to help,
Jen A
Waterloo ON Canada.....hope the weather stays warm! : )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

Inline

Phil wrote:
My son's PC was stolen along with all the software. I'm trying to find
out
if I have to buy everything again.


Yes, unless your insurance covers some of it.

Does anyone know Microsoft policy on
this?


No.

It was an HP PC so with OEM Windows XP home. I have no disks - only a
record of the product key. I guess I just have to buy a new licence.


At minimum, yes.

Also do MS keep a record of stolen product keys? Not sure if this would
stop the thief from using the PC?


Nope. Probably not.


  #25  
Old November 29th 08, 05:24 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Alias[_22_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 44
Default Stolen PC

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:


Try upgrading the RAM in the Windows 98 machine to 256mb, and your son
will be able to legally download Ubuntu which includes Open Office. he
will then be able to continue his work..


You're making progress, Mike. BTW, Ubuntu can be downloaded from
www.ubuntu.com.

Alias
  #26  
Old November 29th 08, 05:37 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
olfart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 148
Default Stolen PC


"Alias" wrote in message
...
Mike Hall - MVP wrote:


Try upgrading the RAM in the Windows 98 machine to 256mb, and your son
will be able to legally download Ubuntu which includes Open Office. he
will then be able to continue his work..


You're making progress, Mike. BTW, Ubuntu can be downloaded from
www.ubuntu.com.

Alias


if he doesn't mind learning to drive on the left hand side of the road with
a right side steering wheel and learning a whole new language to boot


  #27  
Old November 29th 08, 05:41 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Alias[_22_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 44
Default Stolen PC

olfart wrote:
"Alias" wrote in message
...
Mike Hall - MVP wrote:

Try upgrading the RAM in the Windows 98 machine to 256mb, and your son
will be able to legally download Ubuntu which includes Open Office. he
will then be able to continue his work..

You're making progress, Mike. BTW, Ubuntu can be downloaded from
www.ubuntu.com.

Alias


if he doesn't mind learning to drive on the left hand side of the road with
a right side steering wheel and learning a whole new language to boot



Another clueless one who doesn't know what Ubuntu is but thinks he does.
My Ubuntu install is in English. It can be installed in any language
from the same CD. Oops. I have yet to use a command line or a terminal.
Oops again.

Now come back when you know something or STFU.

Alias
  #28  
Old November 29th 08, 11:31 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mike Hall - MVP[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 453
Default Stolen PC

"Phil" wrote in message
...
Mike,

Thanks - Dell used to sell PCs for $30 less than the same PC with OEM
Windows XP Home - not sure if they still do. Selling it for $30 is 1000%+
gain over marginal cost.

You use the word "fault" as if I am saying it is Microsoft's fault that my
son's PC was stolen. I am sure you don't mean that and I'm certainly not
claiming that. However, to find that the OS is the only piece of software
which I am not able to transfer is the fault of Microsoft and I have yet
to
see a good answer to why they would do that (in the case of a stolen PC).

Interestingly I have found that getting around the WPA is relatively easy
and even MS will provide support for OEM problems i.e. they are currently
helping me and perhaps they will allow the transfer this time. It seems
MS
are not as evil as their licence agreements appear. I have also been told
that non-OEM Vista has a one time transfer policy. Didn't Apple try
something like this with iTunes? Another lesson MS needs to learn from
Apple, I guess.

Thanks for the tip about Ubuntu - another poster suggested Linux as well.
However, the investment in both time and money in other Windows based apps
is
significant. MS is well aware that switching costs are incredibly high,
hence these anti-loyalty business practices - I am sure they will change
(not
because of anything I say or do). Bad business practices eventually
change
(or the business dies) - MS is no exception.

Phil

"Mike Hall - MVP" wrote:

Phil

I used the word 'essentially' for a reason. Were you to go out and buy a
barebones tower, and keyboard, mouse, monitor etc of the same quality as
say
HP, you would realize that the OS part of a computer deal is essentially
free.

The terms of OEM is that the computer manufacturer is WHOLLY responsible,
so
claim off of the manufacturer. They will ask for proof and you will find
it
difficult to get any that sticks.. I have no doubt that they will tell
you
you claim off of insurance.

It is unfortunate that your son does not have the funds to get a new
computer or software for your older computer, and that you don't have a
spare Vista machine kicking around, but they are not the fault or
responsibility of either Microsoft or the manufacturer.

Try upgrading the RAM in the Windows 98 machine to 256mb, and your son
will
be able to legally download Ubuntu which includes Open Office. he will
then
be able to continue his work..

--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default...help&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx







Dell may have sold them less $30, but it would cost way more than that to
buy a retail version.

Also, the retail version is as transferable as you want it to be. Not sure
who told you that it can only be transferred one time only.

An option, but there are risks and problems involved, is to download from a
torrent. The risks are that you could end up downloading infected files, and
the problems are that Dell and MDG BIOS will not recognize an OS CD that is
not their own. The legality may be in doubt too..

Microsoft let a lot through re activation. They are not the bad boys as some
like to portray, but they do have limits..

I have tried to explain to some of the Ubuntu protagonists here that Windows
users don't want alternatives, but for the severely 'cash strapped', Ubuntu
will at least get a computer into something approaching a productive state,
but it does require a minimum of 256mb RAM..

On your last point, it is not MS who determines what platform runs 3rd party
stuff. The software authors decide which platform to which they will port
their software. Authors of Windows based software can make a business out of
it because they can and do charge in many cases. Developers of open source
software do so on the back of some other arm of their business..


--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default...help&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx




  #29  
Old December 2nd 08, 09:01 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Phil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 279
Default Stolen PC

Twayne,

Which bits "are not right"? Do you have any experience with inner city
non-violent theft? Why do you think you know more about this situation than
I do?

No-one has said the police are ignoring it - most of the information I've
given is because the police have pursued it. I can guarantee you the police
would have "ignored" it had we not found the thief. The solution is not the
police, it is insurance (which equates to us paying for thieves to steal our
goods).

Delivering a small claims summons is a scary idea (plus I don't know what
the thief looks like) and you are very naive if you think the guy would show
up to court. So even if the court agrees with me what use is it? Where is
this "preponderance" of evidence? All I have is what the police have told me
- plus I know that he sold some of the stolen goods (I don't know what he did
with the PC). The detective just laughed when I suggested this.

The cost of the PC is written off - the time to actually get it back has
come and gone - if the police had acted immediately with real determination
(or we had taken matters into our own hands) maybe the PC would have still
been with the thief, now it is probably gone.

I've seen no evidence that the police are anxious about anything to do with
this case but I would not be surprised if in 6 months they inform us that the
thief was arrested (for some violent or drug crime) and none of our goods
were found.

Phil

"Twayne" wrote:

I don't know; something's not right with this story. Either you just
don't want to bother and want a chance to vent or the story's conflicts,
and each additional piece being worse than the last dont' reflect
reality. As many offenses as there are there, I can't imagine a police
agency ignoring it nor your unwillingness to pursue it in a small claims
court for replacement cost. I've used the small claims and things just
do not grind to a halt because a summons has to be delivered. Cripes,
you even know where the guy lives, you said, so delivering a summons is
a LOT easier than one whose whereabouts are unknown. You even seem to
know what some of his community ties are, so ... .
I've used small claims before and just like they show on TV, all you
need is a preponderance of the evidence, which is easy enough with a
computer, and you win. Unless of course you didn't obtain the computer
yourelf by legitimate means, or the sotware on it is pirated; then it
could turn on you if it were broughtup, but you'd still win your case I
bet.

Time to just write it off from the sound of things, and let the guy go
ahead and steal a better one from someone else (you hope) when this one
doesn't fit the bill anymore. If he's so well known to the cops, they'd
be anxious to have a reasonj to put him away.




  #30  
Old December 2nd 08, 09:29 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Phil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 279
Default Stolen PC

Mike,

I just had a look at a retail EULA for Vista Home, it says:

"The first user of the software may reassign the license to another device
one time" and "The first user of the software may make a one time transfer of
the software"

I'm no expert but it seems that Vista has a one-time transfer policy.

As to my last point, MS can get away with a policy like this because of the
high switching costs. Although they are not totally responsible for high
switching costs (they do have some responsibility as has been proven in
court) they still abuse (adopt a draconian business practice) this. Saying
software developers are free to develop for other platforms is a defence even
MS wouldn't dare use!

Phil

"Mike Hall - MVP" wrote:



Dell may have sold them less $30, but it would cost way more than that to
buy a retail version.

Also, the retail version is as transferable as you want it to be. Not sure
who told you that it can only be transferred one time only.

An option, but there are risks and problems involved, is to download from a
torrent. The risks are that you could end up downloading infected files, and
the problems are that Dell and MDG BIOS will not recognize an OS CD that is
not their own. The legality may be in doubt too..

Microsoft let a lot through re activation. They are not the bad boys as some
like to portray, but they do have limits..

I have tried to explain to some of the Ubuntu protagonists here that Windows
users don't want alternatives, but for the severely 'cash strapped', Ubuntu
will at least get a computer into something approaching a productive state,
but it does require a minimum of 256mb RAM..

On your last point, it is not MS who determines what platform runs 3rd party
stuff. The software authors decide which platform to which they will port
their software. Authors of Windows based software can make a business out of
it because they can and do charge in many cases. Developers of open source
software do so on the back of some other arm of their business..


--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default...help&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx





 




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