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#31
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Crashes with Firefox Quantum
Andy wrote:
Setting up Thunderbird is a lot of work. And require downloading all messages. I don't use newsgroups that often. Andy It requires downloading each message you click on, to read it. If there were a thousand spam messages in a group, then I don't pay any price by ignoring them. Only the ones I read, do I pay a little download fee to get the text. Thunderbird operation consists of three parts. 1) Scan for high water mark on each subscribed group. Now Thunderbird knows how many new messages are in each group. This takes a packet per subscribed newsgroup or so. 2) The user clicks on a group. The header list is downloaded for the new messages. You need enough header info, to paint the second pane with the message Subject materials, date, Author. Again, this might take ten seconds. 3) While lazily reading one message at a time, you download the message at that point. And when Thunderbird shuts down at the end of the day, the two files per newsgroup in the profile folder, keep the header info for the group. There is at least a mid for each message. If a message ages out on the server, clicking the item in Thunderbird returns an appropriate error message, when Thunderbird sends the mid to the server, and the news server says the message doesn't exist. Relatively speaking, the overhead is low. It might take a couple years, to end up with a 50MB header file for this newsgroup. And that's a measure of your download rate. It's sorta the same amount of overhead as Google Groups, only you get to keep track of what messages you've already read. And you have the headers to look at, if for example, you're wondering whatever happened to user "X". Like, when did they last appear on the news group. Paul |
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#32
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Crashes with Firefox Quantum
On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 at 2:14:45 PM UTC-6, Paul wrote:
Andy wrote: Setting up Thunderbird is a lot of work. And require downloading all messages. I don't use newsgroups that often. Andy It requires downloading each message you click on, to read it. If there were a thousand spam messages in a group, then I don't pay any price by ignoring them. Only the ones I read, do I pay a little download fee to get the text. Thunderbird operation consists of three parts. 1) Scan for high water mark on each subscribed group. Now Thunderbird knows how many new messages are in each group. This takes a packet per subscribed newsgroup or so. 2) The user clicks on a group. The header list is downloaded for the new messages. You need enough header info, to paint the second pane with the message Subject materials, date, Author. Again, this might take ten seconds. 3) While lazily reading one message at a time, you download the message at that point. And when Thunderbird shuts down at the end of the day, the two files per newsgroup in the profile folder, keep the header info for the group. There is at least a mid for each message. If a message ages out on the server, clicking the item in Thunderbird returns an appropriate error message, when Thunderbird sends the mid to the server, and the news server says the message doesn't exist. Relatively speaking, the overhead is low. It might take a couple years, to end up with a 50MB header file for this newsgroup. And that's a measure of your download rate. It's sorta the same amount of overhead as Google Groups, only you get to keep track of what messages you've already read. And you have the headers to look at, if for example, you're wondering whatever happened to user "X". Like, when did they last appear on the news group. Paul Installing it now. If I have probs, will ask 4 help. Andy |
#33
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Crashes with Firefox Quantum
On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 at 5:30:58 PM UTC-6, Andy wrote:
On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 at 2:14:45 PM UTC-6, Paul wrote: Andy wrote: Setting up Thunderbird is a lot of work. And require downloading all messages. I don't use newsgroups that often. Andy It requires downloading each message you click on, to read it. If there were a thousand spam messages in a group, then I don't pay any price by ignoring them. Only the ones I read, do I pay a little download fee to get the text. Thunderbird operation consists of three parts. 1) Scan for high water mark on each subscribed group. Now Thunderbird knows how many new messages are in each group. This takes a packet per subscribed newsgroup or so. 2) The user clicks on a group. The header list is downloaded for the new messages. You need enough header info, to paint the second pane with the message Subject materials, date, Author. Again, this might take ten seconds. 3) While lazily reading one message at a time, you download the message at that point. And when Thunderbird shuts down at the end of the day, the two files per newsgroup in the profile folder, keep the header info for the group. There is at least a mid for each message. If a message ages out on the server, clicking the item in Thunderbird returns an appropriate error message, when Thunderbird sends the mid to the server, and the news server says the message doesn't exist. Relatively speaking, the overhead is low. It might take a couple years, to end up with a 50MB header file for this newsgroup. And that's a measure of your download rate. It's sorta the same amount of overhead as Google Groups, only you get to keep track of what messages you've already read. And you have the headers to look at, if for example, you're wondering whatever happened to user "X". Like, when did they last appear on the news group. Paul Installing it now. If I have probs, will ask 4 help. Andy Any free news servers? |
#34
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Crashes with Firefox Quantum
Andy wrote:
On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 at 5:30:58 PM UTC-6, Andy wrote: On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 at 2:14:45 PM UTC-6, Paul wrote: Andy wrote: Setting up Thunderbird is a lot of work. And require downloading all messages. I don't use newsgroups that often. Andy It requires downloading each message you click on, to read it. If there were a thousand spam messages in a group, then I don't pay any price by ignoring them. Only the ones I read, do I pay a little download fee to get the text. Thunderbird operation consists of three parts. 1) Scan for high water mark on each subscribed group. Now Thunderbird knows how many new messages are in each group. This takes a packet per subscribed newsgroup or so. 2) The user clicks on a group. The header list is downloaded for the new messages. You need enough header info, to paint the second pane with the message Subject materials, date, Author. Again, this might take ten seconds. 3) While lazily reading one message at a time, you download the message at that point. And when Thunderbird shuts down at the end of the day, the two files per newsgroup in the profile folder, keep the header info for the group. There is at least a mid for each message. If a message ages out on the server, clicking the item in Thunderbird returns an appropriate error message, when Thunderbird sends the mid to the server, and the news server says the message doesn't exist. Relatively speaking, the overhead is low. It might take a couple years, to end up with a 50MB header file for this newsgroup. And that's a measure of your download rate. It's sorta the same amount of overhead as Google Groups, only you get to keep track of what messages you've already read. And you have the headers to look at, if for example, you're wondering whatever happened to user "X". Like, when did they last appear on the news group. Paul Installing it now. If I have probs, will ask 4 help. Andy Any free news servers? http://news.aioe.org/ * 119 (Plain and TLS) --- default in Tbird on account setup * 563 (SSL Only) * 443 (SSL Only) * 22 (SSL Only) * 80 (Plain and TLS) No username/password is required for that server. You do not need to click "Always Request Authentication" in the server characteristics for it. You do have to assign a pseudonym as the sender of course "Andy " by filling out the two appropriate boxes for it. But neither of those fields is being used for authentication (sending a password with it). Your name: Andy Email Address: Outgoing Server: Use default Server (not used) The server counter-balances that simplicity, with all sorts of posting rules. You can read as many messages as you want. You can only make 40 posts per day - and this assumes the server knows how to count to 40. In the past, it would cut your allocation in half, because it was none-to-good at counting. There is a limit on cross-posting. There is a limit on line-length (consider setting the wrap limit in Tbird). The length limit might be 135 characters or so. There is a limit on quoted text - no "me too" posts are allowed. Snip most of the source material, make a long enough reply, and the post will be accepted. The body of each post, has a hash calculated on it. It is used to detect "identical" postings. Now, some examples. I want to reply to Paul, so I hit the Reply button. I add some text, I click "Send". Oops! Naughty AIOE rejects your message. I then edit the message, to make the message conform to the rule I violated. I click "Send" a second time. Oops! The server complains the message was the same as the previous time, and hence it is rejected. In other words, even when a message is rejected, the hash (checksum) of the body text is still stored on the server. You cannot make two messages with identical bodies (not headers), as the server will reject the second one, even if the first message was rejected too. Any message body sent, is recorded as a checksum/hash. But other than a very annoying rule set, it's free, and it allows enough posting opportunities a day for light usage. I only hit my posting limit a couple of times, in the years that I've used it. And that's how I figured out the server didn't know how to count. It doesn't use a sliding window algorithm, and instead uses a calendar day to measure postings. A sliding window would work out the postings in the last 24 hours, and the server doesn't (normally) work that way. Paul |
#35
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Crashes with Firefox Quantum
On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 at 6:21:37 PM UTC-6, Paul wrote:
Andy wrote: On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 at 5:30:58 PM UTC-6, Andy wrote: On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 at 2:14:45 PM UTC-6, Paul wrote: Andy wrote: Setting up Thunderbird is a lot of work. And require downloading all messages. I don't use newsgroups that often. Andy It requires downloading each message you click on, to read it. If there were a thousand spam messages in a group, then I don't pay any price by ignoring them. Only the ones I read, do I pay a little download fee to get the text. Thunderbird operation consists of three parts. 1) Scan for high water mark on each subscribed group. Now Thunderbird knows how many new messages are in each group. This takes a packet per subscribed newsgroup or so. 2) The user clicks on a group. The header list is downloaded for the new messages. You need enough header info, to paint the second pane with the message Subject materials, date, Author. Again, this might take ten seconds. 3) While lazily reading one message at a time, you download the message at that point. And when Thunderbird shuts down at the end of the day, the two files per newsgroup in the profile folder, keep the header info for the group. There is at least a mid for each message. If a message ages out on the server, clicking the item in Thunderbird returns an appropriate error message, when Thunderbird sends the mid to the server, and the news server says the message doesn't exist. Relatively speaking, the overhead is low. It might take a couple years, to end up with a 50MB header file for this newsgroup. And that's a measure of your download rate. It's sorta the same amount of overhead as Google Groups, only you get to keep track of what messages you've already read. And you have the headers to look at, if for example, you're wondering whatever happened to user "X". Like, when did they last appear on the news group. Paul Installing it now. If I have probs, will ask 4 help. Andy Any free news servers? http://news.aioe.org/ * 119 (Plain and TLS) --- default in Tbird on account setup * 563 (SSL Only) * 443 (SSL Only) * 22 (SSL Only) * 80 (Plain and TLS) No username/password is required for that server. You do not need to click "Always Request Authentication" in the server characteristics for it. You do have to assign a pseudonym as the sender of course "Andy " by filling out the two appropriate boxes for it. But neither of those fields is being used for authentication (sending a password with it). Your name: Andy Email Address: Outgoing Server: Use default Server (not used) The server counter-balances that simplicity, with all sorts of posting rules. You can read as many messages as you want. You can only make 40 posts per day - and this assumes the server knows how to count to 40. In the past, it would cut your allocation in half, because it was none-to-good at counting. There is a limit on cross-posting. There is a limit on line-length (consider setting the wrap limit in Tbird). The length limit might be 135 characters or so. There is a limit on quoted text - no "me too" posts are allowed. Snip most of the source material, make a long enough reply, and the post will be accepted. The body of each post, has a hash calculated on it. It is used to detect "identical" postings. Now, some examples. I want to reply to Paul, so I hit the Reply button. I add some text, I click "Send". Oops! Naughty AIOE rejects your message. I then edit the message, to make the message conform to the rule I violated. I click "Send" a second time. Oops! The server complains the message was the same as the previous time, and hence it is rejected. In other words, even when a message is rejected, the hash (checksum) of the body text is still stored on the server. You cannot make two messages with identical bodies (not headers), as the server will reject the second one, even if the first message was rejected too. Any message body sent, is recorded as a checksum/hash. But other than a very annoying rule set, it's free, and it allows enough posting opportunities a day for light usage. I only hit my posting limit a couple of times, in the years that I've used it. And that's how I figured out the server didn't know how to count. It doesn't use a sliding window algorithm, and instead uses a calendar day to measure postings. A sliding window would work out the postings in the last 24 hours, and the server doesn't (normally) work that way. Paul Its asking for newsgroup server ? Andy |
#36
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Crashes with Firefox Quantum
Andy wrote:
Its asking for newsgroup server ? Andy Thunderbird supports news and email. And it'll ask for what you want, when you start it for the first time. Thunderbird is mainly an email tool, and the News function is included because it doesn't need entirely separate code for everything. It uses a Sent and a Draft folder, for example. When the USENET news server settings in THunderbird refer to SMTP, it doesn't actually use SMTP. Reading and posting use the same server address for both functions. The AIOE site can host both an informational web server on port 80, as well as a news server on port 119. So it's possible to do both with the same hosting computer. The AIOE operation is administered by an Italian guy, using a COLO in Germany for hosting. German law controls what happens to the server (influences the TOS perhaps). Paul |
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