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#1
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New computer but win 7 or 8
I have a friend who is asking me to help him choose a new desktop
computer. He has an very old machine running win xp, he does not do much other than email, internet, a bit of video editing and photograph editing. He is also not that computer literate, I have to walk him through most basic things much of the time. Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am stuck on whether to advise win7 or win8. I know a lot about win7 and can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it, but if I go for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here at home to play with when he asks the inevitable help questions over the phone. The new computer will be between 4 and 8gb, no gaming, no touch screen. I don't want to appear selfish from my point of view and help him spend his money by buying an already oldish win7 when the newer win8 is widely advertised as the next best thing since sliced bread if you see what I mean. As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see me upgrading to win8 as all the reports I have read so far just don't convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of machines awhile back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the water and that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time. Oh, what to do :-? -- mick |
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#2
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On 4/11/2013 4:02 PM, mick wrote:
I have a friend who is asking me to help him choose a new desktop computer. He has an very old machine running win xp, he does not do much other than email, internet, a bit of video editing and photograph editing. He is also not that computer literate, I have to walk him through most basic things much of the time. Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am stuck on whether to advise win7 or win8. I know a lot about win7 and can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it, but if I go for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here at home to play with when he asks the inevitable help questions over the phone. The new computer will be between 4 and 8gb, no gaming, no touch screen. I don't want to appear selfish from my point of view and help him spend his money by buying an already oldish win7 when the newer win8 is widely advertised as the next best thing since sliced bread if you see what I mean. As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see me upgrading to win8 as all the reports I have read so far just don't convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of machines awhile back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the water and that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time. Oh, what to do :-? Don't even think about Win8. I 'upgraded' my "Win7 laptop to Win8 and tried it for 5 months. Reloaded Win7 a couple weeks ago. There is Zero advantage with Win8 and a Desktop. |
#3
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:02:28 +0100, mick wrote:
Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am stuck on whether to advise win7 or win8. I know a lot about win7 and can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it, but if I go for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here at home to play with when he asks the inevitable help questions over the phone. The new computer will be between 4 and 8gb, no gaming, no touch screen. I don't want to appear selfish from my point of view and help him spend his money by buying an already oldish win7 when the newer win8 is widely advertised as the next best thing since sliced bread if you see what I mean. As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see me upgrading to win8 as all the reports I have read so far just don't convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of machines awhile back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the water and that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time. Oh, what to do :-? I strongly recommend Windows 8. It is almost always better to have the newer version, rather than the older one. Despite what many people think about it, it is not necessary to use the new Metro/Modern interface: Windows 8 has two interfaces; the Modern/Metro Interface (which may be all you've looked at) and the traditional Desktop Interface. That traditional Desktop Interface is almost identical to Windows 7's interface; the biggest difference is that there is no Start Orb to click to bring up the Start menu. But note that you can get the Start Orb back by using one of several third-party programs, either free or very inexpensive (Classic Shell at http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ and Start8 at http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/; my personal preference is Start8, but they are both very good). And going from one interface to the other is very easy; there are several ways, but simply pressing the Windows key is perhaps the easiest. Simply installing one of those two and using the traditional desktop interface may be a better choice for you than going to Windows 7. I use Windows 8, almost exclusively with the traditional desktop interface, and with Start 8 installed. If you were to look at and use my computer, you would have a hard time realizing that it's not Windows 7. And another new third-party program that I like and you might want is the $4.99 ModernMix at http://www.stardock.com/products/modernmix/ |
#4
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New computer but win 7 or 8
mick wrote:
I have a friend who is asking me to help him choose a new desktop computer. He has an very old machine running win xp, he does not do much other than email, internet, a bit of video editing and photograph editing. He is also not that computer literate, I have to walk him through most basic things much of the time. Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am stuck on whether to advise win7 or win8. I know a lot about win7 and can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it, but if I go for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here at home to play with when he asks the inevitable help questions over the phone. The new computer will be between 4 and 8gb, no gaming, no touch screen. I don't want to appear selfish from my point of view and help him spend his money by buying an already oldish win7 when the newer win8 is widely advertised as the next best thing since sliced bread if you see what I mean. As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see me upgrading to win8 as all the reports I have read so far just don't convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of machines awhile back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the water and that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time. Oh, what to do :-? No matter what you do, you can add something like this to it. http://www.classicshell.net/ There are commercial versions as well, starting at $5.00 that do much the same thing. Show your friend the interface "stock", then add that and see if the new shell is more appropriate. Don't forget to burn the recovery disc set, when the new machine comes in. ******* I have Windows 7 on my laptop, and Windows 8 on a disk on this machine. On Windows 7, I can run Windows Virtual PC if I want, while on Windows 8, Hyper-V is included on the disc, but can't be used because of the need for SLAT (processor hardware feature). And Windows 8 has a blacklisting feature, where it won't allow things it doesn't approve of to run, so I can't use the older virtual machine software. So to me, I have a new OS, that can't do as much as the old OS. The WinXP I'm current booted into, I have VPC2007 installed, and I have a bunch of virtual machines in that. The two OSes before Windows 8, they provided a solution I could use. So for your friend, you need to estimate the number of things that aren't going to work. You can run the Windows 8 upgrade assistant (subject to some version of .NET being needed), and it will list the existing programs that might be a problem. And that will allow you to estimate how much of an impact the new OS might have. W7UpgradeAdvisor (to check existing apps). http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/downl...ion.aspx?id=20 Same for Windows 8 (to check existing apps). I'm hoping this'll run, without getting hung up on NX/XD first. Lots of P4 based computers can't run Windows 8, because they'd don't support NX/XD in hardware. See if the upgrade assistant will run, and give a list of troublesome applications. I don't expect a big deal, but it's fun to check anyway. Something to do. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...e-to-windows-8 Paul |
#5
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 16:10:42 -0700, Mellowed wrote:
On 4/11/2013 4:02 PM, mick wrote: I have a friend who is asking me to help him choose a new desktop computer. He has an very old machine running win xp, he does not do much other than email, internet, a bit of video editing and photograph editing. He is also not that computer literate, I have to walk him through most basic things much of the time. Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am stuck on whether to advise win7 or win8. I know a lot about win7 and can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it, but if I go for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here at home to play with when he asks the inevitable help questions over the phone. The new computer will be between 4 and 8gb, no gaming, no touch screen. I don't want to appear selfish from my point of view and help him spend his money by buying an already oldish win7 when the newer win8 is widely advertised as the next best thing since sliced bread if you see what I mean. As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see me upgrading to win8 as all the reports I have read so far just don't convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of machines awhile back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the water and that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time. Oh, what to do :-? Don't even think about Win8. I 'upgraded' my "Win7 laptop to Win8 and tried it for 5 months. Reloaded Win7 a couple weeks ago. There is Zero advantage with Win8 and a Desktop. I have never used Win8 either. I can't imagine ever liking a touch screen interface on a home computer. I can't even reach my monitor(s) without sitting up. |
#6
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:02:28 +0100, mick wrote:
I have a friend who is asking me to help him choose a new desktop computer. He has an very old machine running win xp, he does not do much other than email, internet, a bit of video editing and photograph editing. He is also not that computer literate, I have to walk him through most basic things much of the time. Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am stuck on whether to advise win7 or win8. I know a lot about win7 and can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it, but if I go for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here at home to play with when he asks the inevitable help questions over the phone. The new computer will be between 4 and 8gb, no gaming, no touch screen. I don't want to appear selfish from my point of view and help him spend his money by buying an already oldish win7 when the newer win8 is widely advertised as the next best thing since sliced bread if you see what I mean. As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see me upgrading to win8 as all the reports I have read so far just don't convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of machines awhile back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the water and that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time. Oh, what to do :-? There is a learning curve to go from Win XP to Win 7 also. I can't guess whether it would make any real difference to your friend either way, and your experience with 7 would be of *some* help to you when you're being his W8 tech support. Is there anywhere where there are computers with Win 7 and Win 8 that he can play with? Maybe his reactions will be informative. And as I was typing, I was thinking that, in spite of what you wrote above, he might be happy with a touch-screen system, hence Windows 8... Please forgive me for the unauthorized speculation :-) -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#7
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 19:41:19 -0400, Paul wrote:
Windows 8 has a blacklisting feature, where it won't allow things it doesn't approve of to run This alone makes the choice of Windoze 7 an automatic no-brainer. If you get Windows 7, you own the computer. If you get Windows 8, you use the computer, subject to the whims of some sysadmin in Redmond, which whims are likely for sale to the highest bidder, meaning your machine is going to be adminned by a committee of representatives of such consumer-friendly organizations as the RIAA, the MPAA, the federal government, some other countries' federal governments, Monsanto, Big Telecom, Amazon, Apple, etc., etc., etc., and, of course, Microsoft. And the proof that you can't trust them to use such a feature solely for end-user benefit by, say, only blocking malware, that they've apparently blocked virtual PC software proves that plenty. Virtual PC software isn't universally unwanted by users, but Microsoft certainly doesn't want you running Linux on your PC without *at least* having to close everything and reboot to switch between them, and M$ and a variety of third parties don't want you to be able to use an endless string of disposable virtual PCs to avoid their adware polluting your main OS install, or to use time- bombed "trial versions" more than once, or other things like that that benefit software vendors at the expense of consumers. |
#8
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 23:52:17 +0000 (UTC), nukid wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 19:41:19 -0400, Paul wrote: Windows 8 has a blacklisting feature, where it won't allow things it doesn't approve of to run This alone makes the choice of Windoze 7 an automatic no-brainer. If you get Windows 7, you own the computer. If you get Windows 8, you use the computer, subject to the whims of some sysadmin in Redmond, which whims are likely for sale to the highest bidder, meaning your machine is going to be adminned by a committee of representatives of such consumer-friendly organizations as the RIAA, the MPAA, the federal government, some other countries' federal governments, Monsanto, Big Telecom, Amazon, Apple, etc., etc., etc., and, of course, Microsoft. And the proof that you can't trust them to use such a feature solely for end-user benefit by, say, only blocking malware, that they've apparently blocked virtual PC software proves that plenty. Virtual PC software isn't universally unwanted by users, but Microsoft certainly doesn't want you running Linux on your PC without *at least* having to close everything and reboot to switch between them, and M$ and a variety of third parties don't want you to be able to use an endless string of disposable virtual PCs to avoid their adware polluting your main OS install, or to use time- bombed "trial versions" more than once, or other things like that that benefit software vendors at the expense of consumers. I am reminded of philo's remark in another thread in this NG: Message-ID: -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#9
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On 4/11/2013 4:51 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:02:28 +0100, mick wrote: There is a learning curve to go from Win XP to Win 7 also. I can't guess whether it would make any real difference to your friend either way, and your experience with 7 would be of *some* help to you when you're being his W8 tech support. Is there anywhere where there are computers with Win 7 and Win 8 that he can play with? Maybe his reactions will be informative. And as I was typing, I was thinking that, in spite of what you wrote above, he might be happy with a touch-screen system, hence Windows 8... Please forgive me for the unauthorized speculation :-) Or a windows 7 touchscreen which my wife uses happily.. a 26 inch touchscreen I might add. |
#10
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New computer but win 7 or 8
mick wrote:
I have a friend who is asking me to help him choose a new desktop computer. He has an very old machine running win xp, he does not do much other than email, internet, a bit of video editing and photograph editing. He is also not that computer literate, I have to walk him through most basic things much of the time. Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am stuck on whether to advise win7 or win8. I know a lot about win7 and can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it, but if I go for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here at home to play with when he asks the inevitable help questions over the phone. The new computer will be between 4 and 8gb, no gaming, no touch screen. I don't want to appear selfish from my point of view and help him spend his money by buying an already oldish win7 when the newer win8 is widely advertised as the next best thing since sliced bread if you see what I mean. As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see me upgrading to win8 as all the reports I have read so far just don't convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of machines awhile back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the water and that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time. Oh, what to do :-? As someone who recently converted to Win7 [from XP] with a new laptop purchase, I would strongly advise going with Win7 versus Win8, because that will be enough of a change to deal with. I am still wishing I had XP back, and may buy Win7 Pro, just so I can get a better simulation of XP. His uses and your knowledge of Win7 seems to answer the question to me. bj |
#11
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On 4/11/13 5:02 PM, mick wrote:
I have a friend who is asking me to help him choose a new desktop computer. He has an very old machine running win xp, he does not do much other than email, internet, a bit of video editing and photograph editing. He is also not that computer literate, I have to walk him through most basic things much of the time. Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am stuck on whether to advise win7 or win8. I know a lot about win7 and can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it, but if I go for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here at home to play with when he asks the inevitable help questions over the phone. The new computer will be between 4 and 8gb, no gaming, no touch screen. I don't want to appear selfish from my point of view and help him spend his money by buying an already oldish win7 when the newer win8 is widely advertised as the next best thing since sliced bread if you see what I mean. As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see me upgrading to win8 as all the reports I have read so far just don't convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of machines awhile back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the water and that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time. Oh, what to do :-? I've seen this question asked various ways over the years, and it appears to me, the replies usually don't give the questioner much help, or simply comes from the wrong viewpoint. No offense intended, but I think you may be looking at this from the wrong viewpoint. When faced with this question, the only question that needs to be asked is, "What will be the easiest for your friend?" In this case, you'd prefer Win7 because that's easier for you. Would Win7 be easier for your friend? And the person who is being asked for help needs to think outside the box. Too many people do not, they tend to stay with what they are familiar with. I'm not going to attempt to tell you what to recommend, just offer some thoughts for you to consider while helping your friend. You've mentioned you have to help your friend with even the most basic tasks. So perhaps you should look for something less complicated than a newer desktop with a more complicated OS. I'm thinking along the lines of a tablet. Look at all of them, Android, iOS, and both versions of the Surface tablet. See if your friend can do the tasks needed there, and if the OS will be easier for your friend to pick up and learn. Make sure your friend can print, scan, etc., whatever needs to be done. If the basics your friend needs/wants to do can't be done on a tablet, then tablets won't work. Please, don't just do a cursory check, I can't tell you how many times I've read a post online that says you can't do X and Y with such and such OS, and I'm sitting here saying to myself, "He/she's full of s**t." LOL Even check to see if a new peripheral will work, but the old one won't. I'm thinking specifically of printers here. Maybe the old printer needs to be hardwired to work. But a new wireless printer would work fine. If you determine tablets simply won't cut it, then you'll have to go the desktop route, possibly a laptop. That being said above, think about your friend first. My mother asked me for help in choosing her first computer. I was the first person to have a computer in the family, but had no clue as to what would fit her. The first requirement I had for that quest was, "Where can she get help locally if there's a problem?" At the time, Windows and Macs were her only options. I didn't use either OS. So, I took her to a store, sat her in front of a Mac computer and a Windows computer, and had the salesman help her with both. The goal? To figure out which OS made the most sense to her. She picked the Mac. It was OS 8, I don't remember which version of Windows was current at the time. If you really want to consider what your friend is comfortable with, take him to the store and let him pick between Macs and Windows as they come out of the box. I have a friend who has never been able to make sense of Windows, but OS X makes perfect sense to her. I'm comfortable with both, as well as others, but my Mac really gave me fits early on. And, sometimes still does. LOL If you're friend does pick Windows, then I'm with Ken Blake for the following reasons: 1. It is the current OS from MS. It sound like your friend may have this computer until it turns to dust. So go with the current OS. I went to MS today to help a friend get additional gadgets for Win7, and MS has shut that down. To use Yoda-speak, "Pi$$ed was I." If you want additional gadgets, you'll have to get them off the web. 2. With Win 8, your friend can try both the touch screen and desktop screen in the store. Help will probably be needed. Then, if he does prefer the touch screen interface, your basic decision regarding the OS is done. There are a couple of variations of the touch screen interface. I have my Win 8 virtual machine starting up with one of those variations. Make sure all options are shown to your friend. I have a 24" widescreen Mac, with Win 8 starting in the All Apps mode with small icons. IMO, makes the touch screen interface tolerable. 3. As Ken B pointed out, you don't have to start with the touch screen interface with Win8. I think I had Win 8 booting to the Win 8 desktop, but I don't remember how I did that. LOL Paul recommended Classic Shell. I have this installed on my netbook with Win7. There are various skins you can apply to make Win8 look like earlier Windows Start Menus. That being said, there are a myriad of Start Menu replacements out there that can change the look of Windows. You may find one that is even easier for your friend to use. Which translates into less work for you in the long run. 4. I've not tried the virtual machine(s) in Win 8, but VM software seems like a non- player for your question. When I get a real Win 7/8 computer built (DOA motherboard replacement is on the way to me) I may give them a try in 8. 5. When picking the hardware, consider your friend's eyesight, and what configuring you can do to compensate for that. Anyway... That's how I'd approach helping your friend pick a new computer. Do what's best for your friend, not for you. grin FWIW, your type of question is what I really enjoy working with. Unlike most, I don't worry about being spammed from newsgroups. Or, overloaded with questions. So the reply to address for this message is valid, and if you want to pick my brain (what's left of it anyway! LOL), feel free to email. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.3 Firefox 19.0.2 Thunderbird 17.0.5 LibreOffice 4.0.1.2 |
#12
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:02:28 +0100, mick wrote:
As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see me upgrading to win8 as all the reports I have read so far just don't convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of machines awhile back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the water and that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time. Let me add a few points to my earlier message, strongly recommending Windows 8, and explain why I say that 1. If Windows 8 is better than Windows 7, for the vast majority of people it's not much better. 2. But even if it's not better than Windows 7, it's also not worse. In most cases (again, using the desktop interface and using third-party software like Start8), it's almost identical. 3. For you, and for almost everyone running Windows 7, there's little reason to upgrade. Staying with Windows 7, at least for the near future, should be fine. 4. But for someone buying a new computer and having to choose between Windows 7 or 8, to me it's no contest: he should choose the newer version, Windows 8. That's for the following reasons: a. Windows 8 will be supported longer than Windows 7 b. As new hardware and software comes out, some of it will be supported only on Windows 8. Get Windows 8 *now*, so you don't have to upgrade later (but for someone like you who already has Windows 7, there's no disadvantage to upgrading later rather than now). c. Security improvements will mostly be directed toward the newest version, Windows 8. d. There is *always* a learning curve and a potential for problems when you take a step as big as this one, regardless of how wonderful whatever you're contemplating moving to is. Sooner or later you'll have to upgrade (to Windows 8 or its successor) because you'll want support for hardware or software that you can't get in 7, but don't rush it. e. Your friend should embark on the learning curve to Windows 8 now, not have to take the learning curve for Windows 7 now, and for Windows 8 later. So to repeat myself, you and almost everyone else, will have to upgrade to Windows 8 (or its successor) sooner or later, but there's no rush. You are not like your friend buying a new computer. |
#13
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On 4/11/13 7:22 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:02:28 +0100, mick wrote: snip So to repeat myself, you and almost everyone else, will have to upgrade to Windows 8 (or its successor) sooner or later, but there's no rush. You are not like your friend buying a new computer. Just to be a muckraker, ditch Windows in favor of OS X or some flavor of Linux. LOL -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.3 Firefox 19.0.2 Thunderbird 17.0.5 LibreOffice 4.0.1.2 |
#14
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On 4/11/2013 4:02 PM, mick wrote:
I have a friend who is asking me to help him choose a new desktop computer. He has an very old machine running win xp, he does not do much other than email, internet, a bit of video editing and photograph editing. He is also not that computer literate, I have to walk him through most basic things much of the time. Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am stuck on whether to advise win7 or win8. I know a lot about win7 and can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it, but if I go for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here at home to play with when he asks the inevitable help questions over the phone. The new computer will be between 4 and 8gb, no gaming, no touch screen. I don't want to appear selfish from my point of view and help him spend his money by buying an already oldish win7 when the newer win8 is widely advertised as the next best thing since sliced bread if you see what I mean. As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see me upgrading to win8 as all the reports I have read so far just don't convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of machines awhile back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the water and that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time. Oh, what to do :-? Well you have had some very nice and well thought out responses. I was too lazy. What are you going to recommend?? |
#15
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:02:28 +0100, mick wrote:
I have a friend who is asking me to help him choose a new desktop computer. He has an very old machine running win xp, he does not do much other than email, internet, a bit of video editing and photograph editing. He is also not that computer literate, I have to walk him through most basic things much of the time. Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am stuck on whether to advise win7 or win8. I know a lot about win7 and can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it, but if I go for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here at home to play with when he asks the inevitable help questions over the phone. If you're going to have to walk him through things, it would make sense to advise him to get what you are most comfortable with. |
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