Impacts of 'Creators Update'?

I'm getting problems with several programs following my recent Win 10
update to version 1709 (Build 16299.192).

The most obvious in my case is Corel PaintShop Pro. Considerable
discussion in the Corel Forum of very slow start-up times, particularly
for X9 and 2018 versions.
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=62943
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=63075
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=63056
etc

That's particularly annoying for me as I'd only just 'upgraded' to PSP
2018 from my 15 year old PSP 8, because the latter was becoming
unreliable under Win 10.

But I'm also frustrated by other more obscure recently arising problems.
Such as with IrfanView and Macro Express Pro.

Q: Anyone know of a reliable source(s) listing issues arising or
suspected of arising from the latest updates please?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm getting problems with several programs following my recent Win 10
update to version 1709 (Build 16299.192).

The most obvious in my case is Corel PaintShop Pro. Considerable
discussion in the Corel Forum of very slow start-up times, particularly
for X9 and 2018 versions.
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=62943
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=63075
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=63056
etc

That's particularly annoying for me as I'd only just 'upgraded' to PSP
2018 from my 15 year old PSP 8, because the latter was becoming
unreliable under Win 10.

But I'm also frustrated by other more obscure recently arising problems.
Such as with IrfanView and Macro Express Pro.

Q: Anyone know of a reliable source(s) listing issues arising or
suspected of arising from the latest updates please?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Did the situation improve with Windows Defender real-time disabled ?

In an Administrator Powershell, you can try...

Set-MpPreference -DisableRealtimeMonitoring 1

If you're using a third-party AV, you could try disabling it.

One thing I've noticed here, is when opening Firefox and
typing in www.google.com as an address, the browser freezes
for a number of seconds, before the page actually fetches.
I hope that's a Firefox issue, and not a Microsoft issue :-)
Other addresses seem to resolve faster.

Paul

Paul wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm getting problems with several programs following my recent Win 10
update to version 1709 (Build 16299.192).

The most obvious in my case is Corel PaintShop Pro. Considerable
discussion in the Corel Forum of very slow start-up times, particularly
for X9 and 2018 versions.
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=62943
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=63075
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=63056
etc

That's particularly annoying for me as I'd only just 'upgraded' to PSP
2018 from my 15 year old PSP 8, because the latter was becoming
unreliable under Win 10.

But I'm also frustrated by other more obscure recently arising problems.
Such as with IrfanView and Macro Express Pro.

Q: Anyone know of a reliable source(s) listing issues arising or
suspected of arising from the latest updates please?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Did the situation improve with Windows Defender real-time disabled ?

In an Administrator Powershell, you can try...

Set-MpPreference -DisableRealtimeMonitoring 1

If you're using a third-party AV, you could try disabling it.

One thing I've noticed here, is when opening Firefox and
typing in www.google.com as an address, the browser freezes
for a number of seconds, before the page actually fetches.
I hope that's a Firefox issue, and not a Microsoft issue :-)
Other addresses seem to resolve faster.

Paul

One user has found Defender is a culprit, but not me.
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=63075

Here's an extract from a post I've just sent:

"I went ahead with a clean reinstall a day ago. Typical startup (and
subsequent) were both worse than before.

First of the day right now... just over THREE MINUTES! Worst ever.
Closed - took 5 seconds.

Checked TM to ensure no PSP process, and restarted... 95 secs.

Disabled all Defender protection and restarted ... 75 secs."

--------------------

www.google.com came up fast here. But I'm still hanging on to 56.0.2,
despite nags every few minutes. Have you made the radical switch to 58?
That will lose most of my extensions, amongst other things.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

On 1/24/2018 5:03 AM, Paul wrote:
Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm getting problems with several programs following my recent Win 10
...........................
That's particularly annoying for me as I'd only just 'upgraded' to PSP
2018 from my 15 year old PSP 8, because the latter was becoming
unreliable under Win 10.

But I'm also frustrated by other more obscure recently arising problems.
Such as with IrfanView and Macro Express Pro.

I use Irfanview a lot and have experienced no problems with it running
on Windows 10 Creators.



One thing I've noticed here, is when opening Firefox and
typing in www.google.com as an address, the browser freezes
for a number of seconds, before the page actually fetches.
I hope that's a Firefox issue, and not a Microsoft issue :-)
Other addresses seem to resolve faster.

Â*Â* Paul


I found that every time Firefox (64 bit) stalled it was waiting of
googleaepis.com

I blocked this from loading using Ublock Original



--
2017: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 09:40:37 +0000, Terry Pinnell
wrote:

I'm getting problems with several programs following my recent Win 10
update to version 1709 (Build 16299.192).

The most obvious in my case is Corel PaintShop Pro. Considerable
discussion in the Corel Forum of very slow start-up times, particularly
for X9 and 2018 versions.
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=62943
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=63075
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=63056
etc

That's particularly annoying for me as I'd only just 'upgraded' to PSP
2018 from my 15 year old PSP 8, because the latter was becoming
unreliable under Win 10.

But I'm also frustrated by other more obscure recently arising problems.
Such as with IrfanView and Macro Express Pro.

Q: Anyone know of a reliable source(s) listing issues arising or
suspected of arising from the latest updates please?


I have PSP 2018 open on Win 10 Creators' as I type and have no issues
with its load time.

Terry Pinnell wrote:

I'm getting problems with several programs following my recent Win 10
update to version 1709 (Build 16299.192).

The most obvious in my case is Corel PaintShop Pro. Considerable
discussion in the Corel Forum of very slow start-up times, particularly
for X9 and 2018 versions.
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=62943
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=63075
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=63056
etc

That's particularly annoying for me as I'd only just 'upgraded' to PSP
2018 from my 15 year old PSP 8, because the latter was becoming
unreliable under Win 10.

But I'm also frustrated by other more obscure recently arising problems.
Such as with IrfanView and Macro Express Pro.

Q: Anyone know of a reliable source(s) listing issues arising or
suspected of arising from the latest updates please?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, David, those options (or all
three) in Defender Virus & Threat Protection seem to have little
effect here.

I also used Process Monitor (ProcMon) from SysInternals a couple of days
ago but as I suspected, the results were so overwhelming and obscure
that I gave up attempting to distill any clues.

In the so far vain hope that someone in the Corel Forum (hey, even maybe
a Corel developer) might spot something, I uploaded four extracts as
text files. Most were chosen at points where there seemed to be
thousands of repetitive operations. But given my relative technical
ignorance that may well be 'normal'. Note that the time stamps are shown
near the extreme left.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0hhjnyaasy...les-1.txt?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5a55hzlfav...les-2.txt?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/12bi5thrq4...les-3.txt?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i08fboch4n...les-4.txt?dl=0

One of the many puzzles is why there are hundreds or thousands of
references to certain files. Some are JPGs, but not recently edited in
PSP 2018. Others are even more obscure, such as files with extension
HDP. These are temporary files generated by my video editor, Magix Movie
Edit Pro. Totally unrelated to PSP. Go figure...

--------------------

Here's another example of a change that's occurred since the 1703 or
1709 WU. It's trivial at first sight but wrecks one of my frequently
used macros. Taken me some three hours to isolate. I use Snagit for
captures. The hotkey Ctrl+Shift+C activates a region capture and I then
drag a rectangle with the left mouse and on releasing it the copy is on
the clipboard. All works fine done manually. But I use a macro (which
also adds stuff to the copied image, etc, etc). Cutting to the quick,
the delay of 0.2 sec between issuing the hotkey command and starting the
drag, which has worked for years, has now had to be increased to one
second for reliable operation.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Terry Pinnell wrote:
Terry Pinnell wrote:

I'm getting problems with several programs following my recent Win 10
update to version 1709 (Build 16299.192).

The most obvious in my case is Corel PaintShop Pro. Considerable
discussion in the Corel Forum of very slow start-up times, particularly
for X9 and 2018 versions.
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=62943
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=63075
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=63056
etc

That's particularly annoying for me as I'd only just 'upgraded' to PSP
2018 from my 15 year old PSP 8, because the latter was becoming
unreliable under Win 10.

But I'm also frustrated by other more obscure recently arising problems.
Such as with IrfanView and Macro Express Pro.

Q: Anyone know of a reliable source(s) listing issues arising or
suspected of arising from the latest updates please?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, David, those options (or all
three) in Defender Virus & Threat Protection seem to have little
effect here.

I also used Process Monitor (ProcMon) from SysInternals a couple of days
ago but as I suspected, the results were so overwhelming and obscure
that I gave up attempting to distill any clues.

In the so far vain hope that someone in the Corel Forum (hey, even maybe
a Corel developer) might spot something, I uploaded four extracts as
text files. Most were chosen at points where there seemed to be
thousands of repetitive operations. But given my relative technical
ignorance that may well be 'normal'. Note that the time stamps are shown
near the extreme left.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0hhjnyaasy...les-1.txt?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5a55hzlfav...les-2.txt?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/12bi5thrq4...les-3.txt?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i08fboch4n...les-4.txt?dl=0

One of the many puzzles is why there are hundreds or thousands of
references to certain files. Some are JPGs, but not recently edited in
PSP 2018. Others are even more obscure, such as files with extension
HDP. These are temporary files generated by my video editor, Magix Movie
Edit Pro. Totally unrelated to PSP. Go figure...

--------------------

Here's another example of a change that's occurred since the 1703 or
1709 WU. It's trivial at first sight but wrecks one of my frequently
used macros. Taken me some three hours to isolate. I use Snagit for
captures. The hotkey Ctrl+Shift+C activates a region capture and I then
drag a rectangle with the left mouse and on releasing it the copy is on
the clipboard. All works fine done manually. But I use a macro (which
also adds stuff to the copied image, etc, etc). Cutting to the quick,
the delay of 0.2 sec between issuing the hotkey command and starting the
drag, which has worked for years, has now had to be increased to one
second for reliable operation.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Your four trace files look pretty normal.

You're not supposed to stare too intently at the
screen when working on ProcMon :-) Not at first.

Your first pass is just a 60,000 foot check. And when you
spotted the 7 second gap, that's the kind of thing that's
you're looking for. It implies maybe some helper or service just
fired up ? And maybe you have to go back to the trace with the
filter off, to see if Corel was actually waiting for a
second thing it started, to initialize. It could even
be a file share that you're "lit up". It could be
a svchost is busy at the same instant in time, or Corel
has forked some "named helper" of its own.

The references to all your home directory files is easy - there
is an image database and it's generating thumbnails for some
reason. Presumably if you do File:Open in Corel, it's going
to show you thumbnails to "make opening the file easier",
even if using a file name is your traditional way of doing it.

The OS also generates thumbnails, and has the irritating
habit of doing it only on demand. The OS image generator
one is pretty fast, so this usually isn't an issue. Just
the PDF one is pretty slow at that stuff (PDF thumbnailer
installed/added by PDF app like Acrobat). If Corel does
this for themselves, they may be storing them in their
own database, simply to decouple themselves from the
wonky way Microsoft does it.

Excessive fiddling like this:

App scans home directory.
Windows Defender shadows App and scans files touched by App.
File Explorer starts generating thumbnails on folders touched/opened

can lead to a pretty busy disk, and that's sometimes
a reason for a slowdown. A kind of computer "feeding frenzy"
that is uncalled for.

Microsoft should have tied their thumbnailer into
Search Indexer, so it only has to be done once.
But of course, if a user shuts off or sticks a fork
into the Indexer, then the user would lose thumbnail
capability. And thus we have separate activity for
that.

If it was me, I'd be looking in the Corel preferences
for a means to disable their thumbnailer.

Paul

Paul wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:
Terry Pinnell wrote:

I'm getting problems with several programs following my recent Win 10
update to version 1709 (Build 16299.192).

The most obvious in my case is Corel PaintShop Pro. Considerable
discussion in the Corel Forum of very slow start-up times, particularly
for X9 and 2018 versions.
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=62943
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=63075
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=63056
etc

That's particularly annoying for me as I'd only just 'upgraded' to PSP
2018 from my 15 year old PSP 8, because the latter was becoming
unreliable under Win 10.

But I'm also frustrated by other more obscure recently arising problems.
Such as with IrfanView and Macro Express Pro.

Q: Anyone know of a reliable source(s) listing issues arising or
suspected of arising from the latest updates please?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, David, those options (or all
three) in Defender Virus & Threat Protection seem to have little
effect here.

I also used Process Monitor (ProcMon) from SysInternals a couple of days
ago but as I suspected, the results were so overwhelming and obscure
that I gave up attempting to distill any clues.

In the so far vain hope that someone in the Corel Forum (hey, even maybe
a Corel developer) might spot something, I uploaded four extracts as
text files. Most were chosen at points where there seemed to be
thousands of repetitive operations. But given my relative technical
ignorance that may well be 'normal'. Note that the time stamps are shown
near the extreme left.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0hhjnyaasy...les-1.txt?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5a55hzlfav...les-2.txt?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/12bi5thrq4...les-3.txt?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i08fboch4n...les-4.txt?dl=0

One of the many puzzles is why there are hundreds or thousands of
references to certain files. Some are JPGs, but not recently edited in
PSP 2018. Others are even more obscure, such as files with extension
HDP. These are temporary files generated by my video editor, Magix Movie
Edit Pro. Totally unrelated to PSP. Go figure...

--------------------

Here's another example of a change that's occurred since the 1703 or
1709 WU. It's trivial at first sight but wrecks one of my frequently
used macros. Taken me some three hours to isolate. I use Snagit for
captures. The hotkey Ctrl+Shift+C activates a region capture and I then
drag a rectangle with the left mouse and on releasing it the copy is on
the clipboard. All works fine done manually. But I use a macro (which
also adds stuff to the copied image, etc, etc). Cutting to the quick,
the delay of 0.2 sec between issuing the hotkey command and starting the
drag, which has worked for years, has now had to be increased to one
second for reliable operation.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Your four trace files look pretty normal.

You're not supposed to stare too intently at the
screen when working on ProcMon :-) Not at first.

Your first pass is just a 60,000 foot check. And when you
spotted the 7 second gap, that's the kind of thing that's
you're looking for. It implies maybe some helper or service just
fired up ? And maybe you have to go back to the trace with the
filter off, to see if Corel was actually waiting for a
second thing it started, to initialize. It could even
be a file share that you're "lit up". It could be
a svchost is busy at the same instant in time, or Corel
has forked some "named helper" of its own.

The references to all your home directory files is easy - there
is an image database and it's generating thumbnails for some
reason. Presumably if you do File:Open in Corel, it's going
to show you thumbnails to "make opening the file easier",
even if using a file name is your traditional way of doing it.

The OS also generates thumbnails, and has the irritating
habit of doing it only on demand. The OS image generator
one is pretty fast, so this usually isn't an issue. Just
the PDF one is pretty slow at that stuff (PDF thumbnailer
installed/added by PDF app like Acrobat). If Corel does
this for themselves, they may be storing them in their
own database, simply to decouple themselves from the
wonky way Microsoft does it.

Excessive fiddling like this:

App scans home directory.
Windows Defender shadows App and scans files touched by App.
File Explorer starts generating thumbnails on folders touched/opened

can lead to a pretty busy disk, and that's sometimes
a reason for a slowdown. A kind of computer "feeding frenzy"
that is uncalled for.

Microsoft should have tied their thumbnailer into
Search Indexer, so it only has to be done once.
But of course, if a user shuts off or sticks a fork
into the Indexer, then the user would lose thumbnail
capability. And thus we have separate activity for
that.

If it was me, I'd be looking in the Corel preferences
for a means to disable their thumbnailer.

Paul

Thanks Paul, much to study and follow up there.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

On 24/01/2018 17:24, Terry Pinnell wrote:
Terry Pinnell wrote:

But given my relative technical
ignorance that may well be 'normal'.


You are also known to tinker with your machine more than anybody here so
that is something you need to investigate if it is contributing to your
physical machine problems as well as mental health problems!!.


I use PSP X8 and X9 and and don't see any adverse problems you
describe. Just because some nutters are having problems on Corel Forums
doesn't mean Windows 10 Operating system is the problem. It just means
that some of these people are like you tinkering with the windows
default settings and installing all sorts of 3rd party tools (because
pjp and Stan Brown told you that Microsoft is spying!!!) ) without
knowing who makes them and why they are given away free of charge.


--
With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

On 1/24/2018 4:40 AM, Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm getting problems with several programs following my recent Win 10
update to version 1709 (Build 16299.192).

The most obvious in my case is Corel PaintShop Pro. Considerable
discussion in the Corel Forum of very slow start-up times, particularly
for X9 and 2018 versions.
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=62943
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=63075
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=63056
etc

That's particularly annoying for me as I'd only just 'upgraded' to PSP
2018 from my 15 year old PSP 8, because the latter was becoming
unreliable under Win 10.

But I'm also frustrated by other more obscure recently arising problems.
Such as with IrfanView and Macro Express Pro.

Q: Anyone know of a reliable source(s) listing issues arising or
suspected of arising from the latest updates please?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

These aren't so much problems with Windows as with apps that become
unstable or error-prone after an update. You'd probably have better luck
looking in the various forums for the applications you're using.

Now that all of my Win10 machines have "upgraded" to the Creators
Update, I can say that I've noticed no operational problems as yet.

FWIW, I've used Corel products for decades, and the same kind of thing
has always happened whenever a newer version of Windows was released.
Some of the problems stem from the repeated refusal to follow the strict
structural guidelines for app development, others are due to trying to
use a version of the app that was just too old (I know that isn't your
particular problem, here).

--
best regards,

Neil

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 05:03:34 -0500, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Paul
wrote:

One thing I've noticed here, is when opening Firefox and
typing in www.google.com as an address, the browser freezes
for a number of seconds, before the page actually fetches.

I'm using Windows 10 16299.192 x64 fully patched and that is not an issue
with Firefox 58 on my system.

You might want to create a new profile or refresh your browser. It sounds
like a local issue. Or perhaps an add-on?

A new profile works better, IMO, and isn't as radical as a refresh.
Launch Firefox with the CL switch "-profilemanager" to have a go at
creating a test profile.

To do a refresh, enter "about:support" in your address bar and you should
see a bunch of options, including starting in Safe Mode.

Let me know if you find a fix.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Terry Pinnell wrote:

I'm getting problems with several programs following my recent Win 10
update to version 1709 (Build 16299.192).

The most obvious in my case is Corel PaintShop Pro. Considerable
discussion in the Corel Forum of very slow start-up times, particularly
for X9 and 2018 versions.

snipped

Here's an extract from Corel's most recent post on this issue:

--------------------
"Basically, the root cause is due to Corel's last code signing
certificate was blocked by Windows Defender which introduces long load
times for many of Corel products. Also, many 3rd parties met the same
performance issue as long as they adopted the same code signing....

Microsoft is removing our certificate from the blacklist, until last
Friday our certificate has been removed after "threat definitions" was
upgraded to 1.261.651 or later.

The issue was affected all PSPX9 and PSP2018 version since the code
certificate version was in the old Windows Defender blacklist. Thus,
please update your threat definition version to the last version and
restart the system. Then you can get quick launch time back to your
system."
--------------------

That didn't square with the various tests I’d done of very long startup
times with Defender completely disabled. HOWEVER it does indeed seem to
be sorted, with caveats.

After checking that I had the very latest Defender updates (mine is at
version 1.261.761.0) I did a series of 10 tests. I was very pleased that
the first seven of those all got 2018 loaded in about 7 seconds. That's
a longer successive run of acceptable results than I've ever had before.
Tests 8 and 9 were similar BUT PSP 2018 then promptly crashed, with the
familiar message "PSP 2018 is closing...". Test 10 took 7 seconds and
did not crash. (I quit at that point).

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

On 2/5/2018 11:32 AM, Terry Pinnell wrote:
"Basically, the root cause is due to Corel's last code signing
certificate was blocked by Windows Defender which introduces long load
times for many of Corel products. Also, many 3rd parties met the same
performance issue as long as they adopted the same code signing....
For what it is worth, I am using Corel's Word Perfect Office X8

I am running it under Windows 10 and using McAfee as my virus protection
program.

Word Perfect and QuattroPro load and work well on Windows 10


--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre

On Mon, 5 Feb 2018 11:38:18 -0500, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

On 2/5/2018 11:32 AM, Terry Pinnell wrote:
"Basically, the root cause is due to Corel's last code signing
certificate was blocked by Windows Defender which introduces long load
times for many of Corel products. Also, many 3rd parties met the same
performance issue as long as they adopted the same code signing....
For what it is worth, I am using Corel's Word Perfect Office X8

I am running it under Windows 10 and using McAfee as my virus protection
program.

Word Perfect and QuattroPro load and work well on Windows 10


I'll add my experience to yours. I use WordPerfect X7 (I don't use
QuattroPro at all) under Windows 10, with Kaspersky Anti-virus.

On 05/02/2018 16:38, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 2/5/2018 11:32 AM, Terry Pinnell wrote:
"Basically, the root cause is due to Corel's last code signing
certificate was blocked by Windows Defender which introduces long load
times for many of Corel products. Also, many 3rd parties met the same
performance issue as long as they adopted the same code signing....
For what it is worth, I am using Corel's Word Perfect Office X8

I am running it under Windows 10 and using McAfee as my virus
protection program.

Word Perfect and QuattroPro load and work well on Windows 10



You must be brain damaged to compare yourself with Terry Pinnell. Terry
Pinnell has learning difficulties because his mum had iodine deficiency
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09plrg0 when she was pregnant with
little Terry in her body so this has affected his mental ability and he
can't learn new things quickly.

--
With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.