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#31
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Window 8.1 tablets
"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote:
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 15:02:15 +0100, Bob Henson wrote: a) You *do* have to use Metro, unless you do a lot of modifying to make the desktop usable. I completely disagree. I know several people who happily use the desktop interface with *no* modifying. And if you want to make it even better, installing Start8 or Classic Shell is very far from "a lot of modifying." It is *one* very easy and very quick thing to do. Absolutely. That's what we've done on my wife's new 64-bit Win 8.1 machine. We never see the Metro interface. -- Tim Slattery tim at risingdove dot com |
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#32
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Window 8.1 tablets
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 13:26:07 -0400, Tim Slattery
wrote: "Ken Blake, MVP" wrote: On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 15:02:15 +0100, Bob Henson wrote: a) You *do* have to use Metro, unless you do a lot of modifying to make the desktop usable. I completely disagree. I know several people who happily use the desktop interface with *no* modifying. And if you want to make it even better, installing Start8 or Classic Shell is very far from "a lot of modifying." It is *one* very easy and very quick thing to do. Absolutely. That's what we've done on my wife's new 64-bit Win 8.1 machine. We never see the Metro interface. Same here, both on my machine and on my wife's (with Start8, which I like better than Classic Shell, and it costs only $4.99). She *never* sees the Metro/Modern interface, and I see it very briefly once a week or so. |
#33
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Window 8.1 tablets
On 10/18/2014 12:48 PM, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 07:37:04 -0500, Ed Propes wrote: Absolutely. Windows 10 is not a shred better than 8.1 - except, when you find it, it has a "shutdown" button. That being said, with Classic Shell added it can be turned into a usable system, and it works fine once you have spent quite some time doing that. Agreed, but it shouldn't need anything extra to turn it into a usable system. If I've paid my money for something I expect it to be usable as it is. Like the previous version, and the one before that, so we know they can do it... Rod. A lot of discussion when a lot can change before RTM. A lot about Windows 8 Preview could have changed before RTM. But it didn't. We've still got those wretched tiles. It's possible to avoid them unless you accidentally select something wrong, then you stumble back into a screenful of them. And they're still there in Windows 10, in the Start menu. Microsoft seem determined at all costs to get us using tiles whether we want them or not. What's wrong with a list? Microsoft most likely doesn't care whether YOU use tiles or not. However, much of the world has changed the way it is working, and folks with phones and tablets have shown to be not the least bit interested in "lists" as a UI. Just ask Blackberry. Even as far back as the Palm OS, users have been pretty clear about their preferences for a GUI, and today, it's a no-brainer that it's the only thing that WILL sell. Metro/Modern is the integrating UI for those devices and having "the app that you know" available on the desktop can't be that hard to understand, can it? I think it's a good thing that, even in 8.1, you can choose to use Tiles or avoid them entirely. -- best regards, Neil |
#34
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Window 8.1 tablets
On 10/18/2014 10:02 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
On 18/10/2014 2:46 PM, Wolf K wrote: On 2014-10-18 5:07 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote: [...] If Windows 10 kills anything it will be my interest in using any Microsoft products at all. They*still* don't seem to have realised that whatever may or may not work with fat fingers on a tablet, millions of desktop users don't want a screenful of those tiles. [...] a) you don't have to use Metro if you don't want to; b) sales figures show that most of those desktop users are buying laptops as replacements. a) You *do* have to use Metro, unless you do a lot of modifying to make the desktop usable. There is no menu "out of the box" to use the desktop versions of programs, only the cut-down rubbish in Metro. A non-technical user would never find anything but the Metro apps. There are so many options to address this without "a lot of modifiying" that by now every Win8 user should know them, whether or not they are, like myself, completely uninterested in going that route. b) The same applies to laptops as desktops - they need the same extra programs like Classic Shell to make them usable. Metro only has any real value on a tablet computer or a phone. For those who want to use the same apps on their desktop, with data in sync via a cloud server, that notion is completely useless. So, you're betting on the Luddites, and I'm betting on the rest of the world. ;-) -- best regards, Neil |
#35
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Window 8.1 tablets
On 10/18/2014 9:52 AM, Caver1 wrote:
On 10/18/2014 09:39 AM, Ken Springer wrote: (big snip) I upgraded to 8.1 from 8.0, and it defaulted to the desktop, not Metro. I think I read somewhere that 8.1 checks to see if you have a touch screen. If so, it defaults to Metro. If not, it defaults to the desktop. Not true. 8.1 defaults to the Metro side even if you don't have a touch screen. I have helped with ones that upgraded to 8.1 and ones that bought computers with 8.1 installed both defaulted to Metro, no touch screens. In my case, it defaulted to the Desktop after the upgrade, and I had to dig into the system configuration to disable that behavior. And, guess what? After reading into it, that is exactly what is supposed to happen. -- best regards, Neil |
#36
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Window 8.1 tablets
On 10/18/2014 10:02 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
On 18/10/2014 2:46 PM, Wolf K wrote: On 2014-10-18 5:07 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote: [...] If Windows 10 kills anything it will be my interest in using any Microsoft products at all. They*still* don't seem to have realised that whatever may or may not work with fat fingers on a tablet, millions of desktop users don't want a screenful of those tiles. [...] a) you don't have to use Metro if you don't want to; b) sales figures show that most of those desktop users are buying laptops as replacements. a) You *do* have to use Metro, unless you do a lot of modifying to make the desktop usable. There is no menu "out of the box" to use the desktop versions of programs, only the cut-down rubbish in Metro. A non-technical user would never find anything but the Metro apps. b) The same applies to laptops as desktops - they need the same extra programs like Classic Shell to make them usable. Metro only has any real value on a tablet computer or a phone. You can make Windows 8.1 useable with three simple steps. 1. Find the Desktop icon in the metro interfaces. and click it. 2. Place the cursor in the toolbar on the desktop, and right click. 3. From the resultant pop up select Properties. In the Properties Navigation tab, click "When I sign in or close all apps on a screen, got to the Desktop instead of the Start." When you reboot the computer will go directly to the Desktop. To add programs to the desktop. Right click the MS icon on the right of the Desktop tool bar, select File explorer, and add the programs you want to the desktop. After using Windows 8.1 for several months now, I go to the Metro App screen in the Metro Start screen and pin my frequently used programs to the desktop taskbar. With the Jumplist active (Properties Jumplist) I see each file I have recently opened by right clicking on the program icon in the taskbar. That does not take a Ph.D. to do. |
#37
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Window 8.1 tablets
On 10/18/2014 10:03 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
(snip) You can *make* 8.1 default to the desktop, but as installed it defaults to Metro. Perhaps you have a touch screen? I don't, and it defaulted to the desktop, just as it was supposed to. Very annoying, IMO. If I wanted it to default to the desktop, I would have configured it that way in the first place. -- best regards, Neil |
#38
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Window 8.1 tablets
On 10/18/2014 10:53 AM, philo wrote:
On 10/18/2014 09:03 AM, Bob Henson wrote: That's correct and exactly the reason I think Microsoft got it wrong. Too many people just knows computers by rote and to even figure out how to switch from Metro to Classic is beyond their capability. I upgraded to 8.1 from 8.0, and it defaulted to the desktop, not Metro. I think I read somewhere that 8.1 checks to see if you have a touch screen. If so, it defaults to Metro. If not, it defaults to the desktop. You can *make* 8.1 default to the desktop, but as installed it defaults to Metro. True, but what I found annoying is that if one hits the wrong key somewhere, it pops back over to Metro. Installing a 3rd party program such as Classic Shell fixes that. You do not need a 3rd party program to make these fixes. Most can be done from the Properties Navigation tab on the Desktop. The rest can be changed by right clicking on the MS Icon on the Desktop Toolbar, and selecting Control Panel. Many are in the Appearance and Personalization section. |
#39
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Window 8.1 tablets
On 10/18/2014 03:57 PM, Neil wrote:
On 10/18/2014 10:02 AM, Bob Henson wrote: On 18/10/2014 2:46 PM, Wolf K wrote: On 2014-10-18 5:07 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote: [...] If Windows 10 kills anything it will be my interest in using any Microsoft products at all. They*still* don't seem to have realised that whatever may or may not work with fat fingers on a tablet, millions of desktop users don't want a screenful of those tiles. [...] a) you don't have to use Metro if you don't want to; b) sales figures show that most of those desktop users are buying laptops as replacements. a) You *do* have to use Metro, unless you do a lot of modifying to make the desktop usable. There is no menu "out of the box" to use the desktop versions of programs, only the cut-down rubbish in Metro. A non-technical user would never find anything but the Metro apps. There are so many options to address this without "a lot of modifiying" that by now every Win8 user should know them, whether or not they are, like myself, completely uninterested in going that route. b) The same applies to laptops as desktops - they need the same extra programs like Classic Shell to make them usable. Metro only has any real value on a tablet computer or a phone. For those who want to use the same apps on their desktop, with data in sync via a cloud server, that notion is completely useless. So, you're betting on the Luddites, and I'm betting on the rest of the world. ;-) You can have your data synced in the cloud with real programs not just apps. The younger generations that only want to use their phones or maybe tablets don't do any real work on them. -- Caver1 |
#40
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Window 8.1 tablets
Roderick Stewart formulated on Saturday :
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 07:37:04 -0500, Ed Propes wrote: Absolutely. Windows 10 is not a shred better than 8.1 - except, when you find it, it has a "shutdown" button. That being said, with Classic Shell added it can be turned into a usable system, and it works fine once you have spent quite some time doing that. Agreed, but it shouldn't need anything extra to turn it into a usable system. If I've paid my money for something I expect it to be usable as it is. Like the previous version, and the one before that, so we know they can do it... Rod. A lot of discussion when a lot can change before RTM. A lot about Windows 8 Preview could have changed before RTM. But it didn't. We've still got those wretched tiles. It's possible to avoid them unless you accidentally select something wrong, then you stumble back into a screenful of them. And they're still there in Windows 10, in the Start menu. Microsoft seem determined at all costs to get us using tiles whether we want them or not. What's wrong with a list? Rod. Not that I enjoy them any more than you do but they are not hard to deal with. It took me 2 clicks to unpin them from the start menu. I could probably uninstall them completely with a couple more clicks. As it is I see none of them when I boot. -- Ed Propes |
#41
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Window 8.1 tablets
On 10/18/2014 05:06 PM, Ed Propes wrote:
Roderick Stewart formulated on Saturday : On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 07:37:04 -0500, Ed Propes wrote: Absolutely. Windows 10 is not a shred better than 8.1 - except, when you find it, it has a "shutdown" button. That being said, with Classic Shell added it can be turned into a usable system, and it works fine once you have spent quite some time doing that. Agreed, but it shouldn't need anything extra to turn it into a usable system. If I've paid my money for something I expect it to be usable as it is. Like the previous version, and the one before that, so we know they can do it... Rod. A lot of discussion when a lot can change before RTM. A lot about Windows 8 Preview could have changed before RTM. But it didn't. We've still got those wretched tiles. It's possible to avoid them unless you accidentally select something wrong, then you stumble back into a screenful of them. And they're still there in Windows 10, in the Start menu. Microsoft seem determined at all costs to get us using tiles whether we want them or not. What's wrong with a list? Rod. Not that I enjoy them any more than you do but they are not hard to deal with. It took me 2 clicks to unpin them from the start menu. I could probably uninstall them completely with a couple more clicks. As it is I see none of them when I boot. You can uninstall most of them them on the start page by right clicking them and chose uninstall. There are a couple that you can only unpin from the start page. -- Caver1 |
#42
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Window 8.1 tablets
On 10/18/2014 03:14 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 10/18/2014 10:53 AM, philo wrote: On 10/18/2014 09:03 AM, Bob Henson wrote: snip ion tab on the Desktop. The rest can be changed by right clicking on the MS Icon on the Desktop Toolbar, and selecting Control Panel. Many are in the Appearance and Personalization section. Unfortunately, if you left click on the MS Icon, it goes right back to tiles...a minor annoyance for me but a complete nightmare for those who have learned by rote. |
#43
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Window 8.1 tablets
On 10/18/2014 7:01 PM, philo wrote:
On 10/18/2014 03:14 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote: On 10/18/2014 10:53 AM, philo wrote: On 10/18/2014 09:03 AM, Bob Henson wrote: snip ion tab on the Desktop. The rest can be changed by right clicking on the MS Icon on the Desktop Toolbar, and selecting Control Panel. Many are in the Appearance and Personalization section. Unfortunately, if you left click on the MS Icon, it goes right back to tiles...a minor annoyance for me but a complete nightmare for those who have learned by rote. In Windows XP if I right click on an desktop Icon I get a menu, If I left click on it it opens the folder or program. Same difference |
#44
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Window 8.1 tablets
On 10/18/2014 08:21 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
Unfortunately, if you left click on the MS Icon, it goes right back to tiles...a minor annoyance for me but a complete nightmare for those who have learned by rote. In Windows XP if I right click on an desktop Icon I get a menu, If I left click on it it opens the folder or program. Same difference But in XP there is /no/ way to get to "tiles" I don't want to see them at all , no matter what... |
#45
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Window 8.1 tablets
On 18/10/2014 8:57 PM, Neil wrote:
On 10/18/2014 10:02 AM, Bob Henson wrote: On 18/10/2014 2:46 PM, Wolf K wrote: On 2014-10-18 5:07 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote: [...] If Windows 10 kills anything it will be my interest in using any Microsoft products at all. They*still* don't seem to have realised that whatever may or may not work with fat fingers on a tablet, millions of desktop users don't want a screenful of those tiles. [...] a) you don't have to use Metro if you don't want to; b) sales figures show that most of those desktop users are buying laptops as replacements. a) You *do* have to use Metro, unless you do a lot of modifying to make the desktop usable. There is no menu "out of the box" to use the desktop versions of programs, only the cut-down rubbish in Metro. A non-technical user would never find anything but the Metro apps. There are so many options to address this without "a lot of modifiying" that by now every Win8 user should know them, whether or not they are, like myself, completely uninterested in going that route. b) The same applies to laptops as desktops - they need the same extra programs like Classic Shell to make them usable. Metro only has any real value on a tablet computer or a phone. For those who want to use the same apps on their desktop, with data in sync via a cloud server, that notion is completely useless. So, you're betting on the Luddites, and I'm betting on the rest of the world. ;-) No, you're betting on what you would like to see - but it's not actually like that. -- Bob Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK Keyboard - standard device for generating computer errors. |
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