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MS unwanted updates tonight...



 
 
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  #31  
Old March 11th 18, 08:40 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Frank Slootweg
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Posts: 1,226
Default MS unwanted updates tonight...

Mayayana wrote:
"Frank Slootweg" wrote

| Not only clunky, but completely fsck-ed up, unless your imported input
| was a straight-and-clean *file* (not mail folder) tree structure. TB's
| tools don't have a clue how OE's/WM's mail storage is/can_be organized
| and are quite happy to fsck it up. But heh, OE/WM was only the most used
| MUA, so why would TB bother to accomodate its users!?
|

Yes. It almost seems like they intended to be gruff
with OE refugees, doesn't it? A bit of Open Source
smugness. There was no excuse for not importing
OE accounts as normal TB accounts.


Indeed, very smug and inexuseable. Not to mention you have to jump
through hoops to get a decent quoting method and even then, one
configuration does not work for both text/plain and text/html.

You might want to try undbx if you haven't already
got rid of your DBX files. I think that's what I'd do if I
switched: Just convert the email to files and import
those in a way that TB can understand.


My migration went from OE to WM to TB, so I didn't have any OE DBX
files going to TB.

But - with the ImportExportTools TB extension - the import of the
email messages was not too much of a problem (after some test imports),
but - as I mentioned - the resulting mail folder (non-)'organization'
was/in a mess.

Also, I don't know whether this might be useful:

https://www.jsware.net/jsware/scrfiles.php5#ebase

I wrote it recently for my own purposes. It's a database
program that uses Windows Installer MSI files (very
fast) to store several years worth of my old email for
easy search. It has to be set up by loading all relevant
email, but once set up it's easy to use. And there's
a script included to convert a TB email storage file to
separate .EML files.

There's a screenshot he
https://www.jsware.net/jsware/linkpics/ebase.gif


Thanks for the pointers.

AFAIK (but not tested), the ImportExportTools TB extension can export
to mbox-format mail folders and to individual .eml files (which are
essentially also mbox-format).

mbox format is a de facto (de jure?) standard format, so unless TB
stops working, I can always migrate to another MUA.
Ads
  #32  
Old March 11th 18, 08:48 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mark Lloyd[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,756
Default MS unwanted updates tonight...

On 03/11/2018 06:04 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:

[snip]

system. And we all used OE6 and WindowsMail before that.

Have you tried FireFox?
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/


Firefox is a browser.
The mail program from the same source is Thunderbird
(https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/).

It comes in two versions.Â* One installs normally, and the other installs
as a portable version which can save space on your main drive.

One advantage is you no longer are tied to MS.


Yes. Avoid MS browsers and Windows Media Player too (VLC from
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ seems to work well here).

I have been using it for years and never had a problem, it is secure and
easy to use.


I left Outlook Express when Windows 98 was the latest version. I'm not
sure what I was using for mail then, but now it's Thunderbird.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Religion stills a thinking mind."
  #33  
Old March 11th 18, 08:53 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Frank Slootweg
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Posts: 1,226
Default MS unwanted updates tonight...

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 18:55:03 -0000, Frank Slootweg wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 16:40:54 -0000, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Brick wrote:
On 11 Mar 2018 16:09:34 GMT, Frank Slootweg, thunk thusly:
HB wrote:
"wg_2002" wrote in message
news On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 04:29:14 -0400, HB wrote:

....wiped out OE6. It's still there but will not work
anymore. So now I have a laptop I can't use for email. I
don't understand why the hell MS would give a &^%$ that
someone would want to use OE.

And what really eats my lunch is these updates are FORCED
on us. Our choice was taken away.

There has to be a way to stop them, maybe in the regestry.
Someone on this group must know how to stop these updates.

It's an archaic piece of software that is best put out to
pasture just like the OS that is shipped with. If you do not
care for the update cycle of Windows10 you can always choose
another alternative.

What other alternative is there where the kids can play their
games created to run on Windows, or the wife's interior design
software created for windows, or music editing software my son
uses, the image editing software my daughter uses... all this
software would be useless on a Mac or other system. And we all
used OE6 and WindowsMail before that.

Indeed! Classic example of shooting the messenger, instead
of blaming Microsoft for not providing an alternative for
Outlook Express / Windows Mail.

I run Windows Live Mail on Windows 10, so that's an option.

If you can stand the bugs [1] in Windows Live Mail.

What, more than OE?


Yep. Hard to believe, heh!? :-) Well, to be [f]F]rank, no so much more
bugs, but different ones. Some others coming to mind are mixing up
Contacts and Address Book and (also) fsck-ing up the structure of
imported mail folders.


Isn't contacts just another name for address book?


What's up with this being sensible stuff!? We're talking about
*Microsoft*, i.e. any reson and logic is out of the window!

But seriously, the 'Address Book' was a single file in .wab (Windows
Address Book) format. It was replaced, again *without* any sensible
migration path, with 'Contacts', which is a *folder* under
\Users\user. IIRC, also 'Contacts' changed over time, but - luckily -
I can remember for sure.

To add insult to injury, Thunderbird can't be bothered to look at
either of these, let alone understand their format.

I couldn't, so I 'switched' to Thunderbird (see my horror story on
that).

[1] No, I don't remember them all. Too long ago. But - for me - there
were too many. IIRC, the final straw was WLM not removing old messages
from the (POP) server.

  #34  
Old March 11th 18, 09:04 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default MS unwanted updates tonight...

"Brick" wrote

| Yeah, but I haven't bothered
| By throw away, I usually logon, scan the senders, mark all for deletion.
| I use them for companies like Advance Auto and Lego.
|

I did that recently for a state license form. They
tell me an email address is *required* for a state
building contractor's license! Presumably they intend to
make extra money by sending me ads from cooperating
companies. I went online looking for a good throwaway
address that doesn't require me to first give them another
address. (Last I checked, Google required a real email
address to get a gmail address.) I ended up with
Yandex. Easy. No personal info required. And it works.
And how ironically suitable that I should fend off
intrusive gov't bureaucracy with a Russian email
service. It gets hard to tell who the good guys are.




  #35  
Old March 11th 18, 09:21 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default MS unwanted updates tonight...

"Wolf K" wrote

| OE has/had it limitations and glitches, which appears to be the reason
| that MS is trying to replace it with Windows Mail (or whatever it's
| called now). But Windows Mail apparently has glitches all it own.
|

More likely they just don't want to make a solid program
for free because they want to sell Outlook. And the
Mozillians can't be bothered to polish their own product
because all the geeks are using gmail on a phone.

Personally I've never understood the criticism of OE.
It's worked fine for me, for many years. I run a number
of emails addresses, use filters, and read newsgroups
with it.

I don't switch to TB because I'm used to OE and TB
is poorly designed. But I do set up others on TB because
1) I don't know of a better choice and 2) OE is old. To
use it safely requires knowing how to check out
suspicious email without opening it. Any email client is
unsafe with HTML email, but TB is at least newer and
more prepared than OE.


  #36  
Old March 11th 18, 10:08 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Blake[_5_]
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Posts: 2,221
Default MS unwanted updates tonight...

On 11 Mar 2018 19:25:36 GMT, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

Ken Blake wrote:
On 11 Mar 2018 16:09:34 GMT, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

What other alternative is there where the kids can play their games
created to run on Windows, or the wife's interior design software
created for windows, or music editing software my son uses, the
image editing software my daughter uses... all this software would
be useless on a Mac or other system. And we all used OE6 and
WindowsMail before that.

Indeed! Classic example of shooting the messenger, instead of blaming
Microsoft for not providing an alternative for Outlook Express / Windows
Mail.


I disagree that Microsoft should be blamed, for several reasons.


Ah, disagreement! What *would* NetNews be without it! :-)

So on with it, let me trash each and every one of your reasons!

But seriously, I will just give my view on and response to your
points. Happy reading!



I won't reply to each of your points individually, but I want to make
two general comments, largely applicable to all of them:


1. Your message to which I replied said "blaming Microsoft for not
providing an alternative for Outlook Express / Windows Mail."

I pointed out that Microsoft did in fact provide many alternatives.
Your new message now asserts that although there were alternatives,
they were not *good* alternatives. That's a very different assertion
from the one you made earlier, and one that I largely agree with (see
point 2 below, for an example).

2. To my statement " The web-based Outlook.com is still another
choice," you replied "Webmail!? Go wash your mouth boy!" I
*emphatically* recommend against using webmail rather than an e-mail
client, and I've said that many times, in this newsgroup, and in other
newsgroups and forums. Once again, I pointed out that it *is* an
alternative, not that it was a good alternative. Despite how I, and
apparently you, feel about it, a lot of people like that alternative
and use it.
  #37  
Old March 11th 18, 10:22 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Brick[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 46
Default MS unwanted updates tonight...

On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 16:04:34 -0400, Mayayana, thunk thusly:
"Brick" wrote

| Yeah, but I haven't bothered
| By throw away, I usually logon, scan the senders, mark all for deletion.
| I use them for companies like Advance Auto and Lego.
|

I did that recently for a state license form. They
tell me an email address is *required* for a state
building contractor's license! Presumably they intend to
make extra money by sending me ads from cooperating
companies. I went online looking for a good throwaway
address that doesn't require me to first give them another
address. (Last I checked, Google required a real email
address to get a gmail address.) I ended up with
Yandex. Easy. No personal info required. And it works.
And how ironically suitable that I should fend off
intrusive gov't bureaucracy with a Russian email
service. It gets hard to tell who the good guys are.


Thanks for the Yandex info, might look into it.

I've had hotmail since like 1999 or 2000.

The gmail is because I received a chromecast as a gift.
The gifters come over sometimes

--
Brick Mortar
  #38  
Old March 11th 18, 11:12 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default MS unwanted updates tonight...


"Brick" wrote

| Thanks for the Yandex info, might look into it.
|
| I've had hotmail since like 1999 or 2000.
|
For what it's worth, I got it he

https://www.lifewire.com/top-free-em...rvices-1171481

They change a lot. I used to have a junk account
at inbox.com, but then they stopped offering free.
Some require ID and a real email address. Some
don't offer POP. And I prefer not to do business
with the "top tier sleaze": Google, Microsoft, Apple,
Yahoo. Given those factors, I think Yandex was the
only option that looked OK.


  #39  
Old March 11th 18, 11:28 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default MS unwanted updates tonight...

"Wolf K" wrote

| There are Mac equivalents for all that software

That depends. Interior design? Maybe it's on Macs, but not
necessarily the same thing. Graphic editing? Yes, Macs
can use Adobe Creative Cloud rental software, but not
a lot else. I use Paint Shop Pro/AftershotPro. Similar to
Photoshop/Lightroom but far, far cheaper. And I don't
have to rent it. MS Office? I guess there's a Mac version,
but don't Mac users complain that it never works quite
right? Games, of course, are an issue, as you said. And
probably a lot of business software. For instance, AutoCAD?
Maybe there's a Mac version. I don't know. Ingeneral,
Mac doesn't target business. It's a consumer-oriented
product that used to be the go-to system for graphics
and still attracts a lot of those people.
Mac probably has very good music editing software, but
that doesn't necessarily mean one can easily transition
from a Windows program. All of those would need to be
specifically researched if they're important.

I find that when these discussions come up in cross-OS
groups, like the digital photo group, there seems to usually
be one specific program that's recommended on Macs in
a given category. Sometimes pay. Sometimes provided
free by Apple.


  #40  
Old March 12th 18, 03:58 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Gary Dingle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default MS unwanted updates tonight...

The penis enlarger is certainly working for Good Guy.
As each day goes by, he becomes a bigger dick! LOL

On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 17:08:36 +0000, Good Guy
wrote:



You forgot to mention mentally challenged as well.





See you should be frank about your mental stability.




P;ease start using Linux because you are wasting not only your time but
the time of your family members. They need a good husband and dad which
you are not. You are mentally challenged and needs to be in some asylum
catering for mental people like you.


/--- This email has been checked for viruses by Windows Defender
software.
//https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/comprehensive-security/


  #41  
Old March 12th 18, 07:25 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
HB[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default MS unwanted updates tonight...


"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On 03/11/2018 06:04 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:

[snip]

system. And we all used OE6 and WindowsMail before that.

Have you tried FireFox?
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/


Firefox is a browser.
The mail program from the same source is Thunderbird
(https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/).

It comes in two versions. One installs normally, and the other installs
as a portable version which can save space on your main drive.

One advantage is you no longer are tied to MS.


Yes. Avoid MS browsers and Windows Media Player too (VLC from
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ seems to work well here).

I have been using it for years and never had a problem, it is secure and
easy to use.


I left Outlook Express when Windows 98 was the latest version. I'm not
sure what I was using for mail then, but now it's Thunderbird.


I'm downloading it now. I'll give it another shot. Thanks.


--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Religion stills a thinking mind."



  #42  
Old March 12th 18, 07:35 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
HB[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default MS unwanted updates tonight...


"Paul" wrote in message
news
HB wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
news
HB wrote:
"wg_2002" wrote in message
news On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 04:29:14 -0400, HB wrote:

....wiped out OE6. It's still there but will not work anymore. So now
I
have a laptop I can't use for email. I don't understand why the hell
MS
would give a &^%$ that someone would want to use OE.

And what really eats my lunch is these updates are FORCED on us.
Our
choice was taken away.

There has to be a way to stop them, maybe in the regestry. Someone
on
this group must know how to stop these updates.
It's an archaic piece of software that is best put out to pasture just
like the OS that is shipped with.
If you do not care for the update cycle of Windows10 you can always
choose
another alternative.
What other alternative is there where the kids can play their games
created to run on Windows, or the wife's interior design software
created for windows, or music editing software my son uses, the image
editing software my daughter uses... all this software would be useless
on a Mac or other system. And we all used OE6 and WindowsMail before
that.
You can run a VM (virtual machine).

You'll need a WinXP license to use.

While Microsoft offered "XP Mode", a 500MB download
with a copy of WinXP inside, that was intended for Win7 users,
and the same methods don't work in Win10. The "Windows Virtual PC"
(related to VPC2007), a 20MB download, used to host "XP Mode".
But, Microsoft was careful to prevent "Windows Virtual PC"
from running on Win10. And the Hyper-V that does run on
Windows 10, doesn't have any special support for XP Mode.
Since Hyper-V is a bit of a pudge (needs SLAT/EPT),
we use VirtualBox instead. This is a product financed
by Oracle/Sun.

https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

If the Virtual PC method had worked, it would have been perfectly
free (in some strained sense of the word free).

To succeed at this today, you need one of:

1) A license key. A Retail license key from a PC you no longer
use, could be re-purposed for the job.

2) Use a hack to activate the WinXP virtual machine.

You'll also benefit from having a WinXP installer CD.
You use that to put a copy of Windows into the VM
environment, or use it to repair the VM if it's corrupted
or something.

WinXP then runs inside a "window" on your screen. Outlook
Express would then be a window within that "window".
Kinda like Russian dolls.

In terms of RAM usage, the reasonable bare minimum is a
machine with 2GB of RAM. That's a good start. I run VMs
on this machine, and it's got 8GB (still not a very big
machine). I've had as many as three (older) VMs running
on this machine at the same time. Win98SE would run with
256MB. WinXP would run with 512MB. The more modern OSes
will run with 1GB or more.

I even run a Win10 VM on this machine, but that really needs
more CPU cores to speed things up.

Paul


Thanks Paul. It's over my head. Setting something like that up. The
laptop in question has 8 GBs of RAM and a 1 TB HD. I have no idea where
I'd get the keys (or a hack) since those old PCs are long gone and their
info with them.


You start at the beginning.

https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

VirtualBox 5.2.8 platform packages

Windows hosts =
https://download.virtualbox.org/virt...121009-Win.exe

After that one is installed, you can download this one.
Double-clicking this one, because you accepted the file extensions
that VirtualBox likes to use, this file triggers the
starting of VirtualBox, and it adds things such as passthru USB
support (so a USB scanner can be seen from inside the Guest OS).


https://download.virtualbox.org/virt...8.vbox-extpack

Before you become a whiz kid at VMs, you can start
with an Appliance. Microsoft offers these, for free.
They have no license key. The grace period (like with
normal licensing matters) is 30 days, with up to 3
re-arms (if they haven't used up the re-arms on purpose).

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-u...vms/#downloads

Select the VM you want to play with (for the purposes of
seeing what a VM is like).

IE8 on Win7 (x86)

Select the Platform. Because you installed VirtualBox, use...

VirtualBox

The ZIP file offered, will be on the order of 4GB in size.
Don't use an OS with a FAT32 C: drive, because of the danger
the downloaded file will be too big. Your existing machine
with its NTFS C: drive, won't have a problem with it.


https://az792536.vo.msecnd.net/vms/V...VirtualBox.zip

Inside there is a .ova. If you double-click the .ova,
VirtualBox should open and agree to unpack it. If you
accept the defaults, a new entry should appear in the
left hand side of the VirtualBox setup screen.

Double-clicking that, would start the virtual machine running.
The Microsoft password is "Passw0rd!" for the IEUser account.

The window might open at 1024x768 or so. If inside the
Guest OS, you use the Display control panel, you can
request a different size, and make the "window" containing
the OS larger. Grabbing the corner of a VirtualBox window
doesn't always work the best. And asking the VM to make
its own window larger works OK.

Inside the Guest, you use the menus like you always did.

It will take a little getting used to, to occasionally
need to use a hot key for something. You need one of the
keys to make the mouse "escape" from the Guest OS window.
One of my tools uses "right-control" key, another uses
"Alt" key for this. You'll get the hang of that after
a while.

And in the usual place, you can select shutdown in the
Guest, and it will stop running.

There are lots of other details that are important
in VirtualBox, but that's a "5GB trial run" for you :-)

*******

The appliance for WinXP is not offered for download any more
on the Microsoft site. It seems to be in archive.org but
they're not giving it to me :-) :-) I find it unbelievable
that the CDN at Microsoft got archived. You'd think there
was a norobots file on it. The checksum by the way, is of
the copy I've got. I don't have a working download today
to compare it to.

IE8.XP.For.Windows.VirtualBox.zip
1,229,679,520 bytes
SHA256: 0613AD942B46DCB9C83CA44644F7D4961606389C85C149FCB3 AC59169DCFAEE5

https://web.archive.org/web/20151013...VirtualBox.zip

Paul


I'll look into this once all the other issues are handled with W-10. I'll
also try and find images of what this VM looks like when installed. If it's
easy to use and understand, intuitive,I should succeed. If technical
expertese is needed, I wont. I'm spending hours online looking for answers I
am not finding. I think most of the help with W-10 online are written by
those with the pro version.


  #43  
Old March 12th 18, 07:39 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
HB[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default MS unwanted updates tonight...


"Roger Blake" wrote in message
...
On 2018-03-11, HB wrote:
Where would I start? This looks way beyond what I can handle without
screwing up the new laptop.


First things you need are a Windows XP license key and the matching
type of XP installation CD. To stay legal you would need to use a retail
edition of XP. (However, I have seen where people have used an OEM edition
with the key salvaged from a dead XP computer and it worked and activated
OK. Of course I would never suggest that anyone actually do such a thing
since it violates Microsoft's licensing.)


wink wink, nudge nuge I have a snowball's chance in hell of finding one
of those CDs and matching key.


Then you have your choice of virtualization software. The one I'm
most familiar with is Virtualbox (virtualbox.org) which is free
for noncommercial use. You create the new virtual machine with
the desired amount of memory and storage, install XP, and then
install the Virtualbox guest software for seamless operation.

Here's a tutorial, there are plenty of others around as well:


http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-1...irtualbox.html

Needless to say you need enough memory and disk space to allocate to the
virtual machine but that's seldom a problem on modern hardware, especially
for Windows XP whose requirements are minimal by today's standards.


Where are you finding these old CDs with matching keys?


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
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  #44  
Old March 12th 18, 08:07 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
HB[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default MS unwanted updates tonight...


"Brick" wrote in message
news
- snip -


I run Windows Live Mail on Windows 10, so that's an option.

--
Brick Mortar


I downloaded it from Softonic and they're calling it "Windows Essentials."
It was installed underPrograms (x86). As I suspected, there is nothing
there but a wab.exe and a wabmig.exe file. No mail program was installed.
MS updates remove these older mail programs so tell us how you got around
that.

How did you get the updates stopped that are doing this in W-10?



  #45  
Old March 12th 18, 08:32 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
HB[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default MS unwanted updates tonight...


"Ken Blake" wrote in message
...

- snip -


I disagree that Microsoft should be blamed, for several reasons.

1.Windows 10 *does* come with an alternative to Outlook
Express/Windows Mail. The mail program that comes with Windows is
essentially an upgraded version of Outlook Express. I personally think
it's a poor choice, but it is a choice.


I disagree. It doesn't favor either of those email programs in any way. Not
even close on my W-10. It looks totally different and there is no way to
access Usent Newsgroups. It downloads email even if you don't click on
"download."


2. Many people thought Outlook Express was a poor choice. I never
thought it was a very good choice, but I didn't think it was as
terrible as many people thought. On the other hand I thought Windows
Mail was a poor choice

3. Windows Live Mail is another choice. I also think that's a poor
choice, but it too is a choice.


Except that MS has it so none of these email programs will install and run
on W-10.


4. Outlook.exe (part of Microsoft Office) is still another choice.
It's not free, but it's available, and in my view it's a decent
choice.

5. The web-based Outlook.com is still another choice


Not if you want your email saved on your own PC.


6. Although most versions of Windows have come with an e-mail program,
as far as I'm concerned, there's no particular reason why they should.
Sending and receiving e-mail is not an operating system function, and
there's no more reason for Windows to come with one than there is for
Windows to come with a spreadsheet program, database program, etc.


Right! So why is MS making sure no one can install and use the old email
programs? What's it to them? It seems to be greed. They want people to pay
for the lousy email in their office software which most people I know
uninstall. Too many free office apps out there.


7. Regardless of whether or not Microsoft provides an e-mail program
with Windows, there are lots of third-party e-mail programs available,
many of them free, and many better than what comes with Windows.


You're not taking into account that millions of us want to use what we are
used to, what we know, what's easy and without a lot of useless bells and
whistles.


 




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