defragmentation issues in XP

Alister

That utility can be helpful. The problem in Robert's situation is that
the disk is so full that other files have taken up the space the
pagefile normally occupies. If the pagefile reoccupies the middle of the
disk it can be fixed in that position. This brings long term benefits in
that the pagefile ceases to contribute to fragmentation of free disk
space.



--



Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alister wrote:
On Dec 2, 11:41 pm, "Gerry" wrote:
Robert

An interesting Disk Defragmenter Report.

The problem could be the fragmented pagefile.

snip

Hi,

Could I suggest you take a look at

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/s.../bb897426.aspx

I have used this on a number of our XP clients and it does seem to
make a difference to
both pagefile and registry fragmentation.

It has a pretty GUI to set it up, but runs as a command line util on
boot up.

Alister

On Dec 3, 9:12 am, "Gerry" wrote:
Alister

That utility can be helpful. The problem in Robert's situation is that
the disk is so full that other files have taken up the space the
pagefile normally occupies. If the pagefile reoccupies the middle of the
disk it can be fixed in that position. This brings long term benefits in
that the pagefile ceases to contribute to fragmentation of free disk
space.

--

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alister wrote:
On Dec 2, 11:41 pm, "Gerry" wrote:
Robert

An interesting Disk Defragmenter Report.

The problem could be the fragmented pagefile.

snip

Hi,

Could I suggest you take a look at

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/s.../bb897426.aspx

I have used this on a number of our XP clients and it does seem to
make a difference to
both pagefile and registry fragmentation.

It has a pretty GUI to set it up, but runs as a command line util on
boot up.

Alister

Yes, sorry Gerry, I was not suggesting that Pagedefrag was the cure of
all ills :-)

However if the OP follows the instructions you gave first regarding
the removal and recreation of the pagefile he can use pagedefrag in
the future to prevent or reduce the likelihood of a recurrence of the
problem.

Cheers

Alister

Alister

The need for that would depend on the pagefile settings. If the pagefile
setting is as I suggested it will not fragmenter further.


--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alister wrote:
On Dec 3, 9:12 am, "Gerry" wrote:
Alister

That utility can be helpful. The problem in Robert's situation is
that the disk is so full that other files have taken up the space the
pagefile normally occupies. If the pagefile reoccupies the middle of
the disk it can be fixed in that position. This brings long term
benefits in that the pagefile ceases to contribute to fragmentation
of free disk space.

--

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alister wrote:
On Dec 2, 11:41 pm, "Gerry" wrote:
Robert

An interesting Disk Defragmenter Report.

The problem could be the fragmented pagefile.

snip

Hi,

Could I suggest you take a look at

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/s.../bb897426.aspx

I have used this on a number of our XP clients and it does seem to
make a difference to
both pagefile and registry fragmentation.

It has a pretty GUI to set it up, but runs as a command line util on
boot up.

Alister

Yes, sorry Gerry, I was not suggesting that Pagedefrag was the cure of
all ills :-)

However if the OP follows the instructions you gave first regarding
the removal and recreation of the pagefile he can use pagedefrag in
the future to prevent or reduce the likelihood of a recurrence of the
problem.

Cheers

Alister

Gerry wrote:
Robert

An interesting Disk Defragmenter Report.

The problem could be the fragmented pagefile. This is probably scattered
across the drive causing the free space to be equally fragmented. The
pagefile is of course an immovable file. You also only have 20% free
space. You need something approaching 60% free space to achieve a single
contiguous pagefile. It should, however, be possible to achieve a
considerable improvement.

You need to maximise the free disk space before running disk
defragmenter again.

You can generate more space in the system partition by relocation of
folders. They can be relocated back after the exercise has been
completed.

For Temporary Internet Files select Start, Control Panel, Internet
Options, Temporary Internet Files. Settings, Move Folder.

To move the Outlook Express Store Folder select in Outlook Express
Tools, Options, Maintenance, Store Folder, Change.
http://www.tomsterdam.com/insideoe/files/store.htm

My Documents is one of a number of system created Special Folders
including My Pictures and My Music. These can more easily be relocated
using Tweak Ui. Download TweakUI, one of the MS powertoys, from he
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/p.../powertoys.asp

In TweakUi select My Computer, Special Folders. You can scroll down to
see the full list of Special Folders to the left of the Change
Location button.

Next I am not clear how you are cleaning out redundant files. The most
effective way is cCleaner.

An alternative to Disk CleanUp is cCleaner (freeware) which does a more
thorough job than Disk CleanUp. Disk CleanUp has to be run for each user
profile, whereas cCleaner only needs to be run once.
http://www.ccleaner.com/ccdownload.asp
http://www.ccleaner.com/

With any cleaner you need to proceed with caution. To be safe you
should create a restore point before using cCleaner. cCleaner also
offers backup before removal.

When using cCleaner think twice before checking Autocomplete Form
History under Internet Explorer. You do get a warning but this one has
irritating consequences. You may need to restore your system's
recollection of passwords after use so keep a record off computer so
that they can easily be re-entered.

Leave the Scan for Issues option alone.

Now the two big savings to temporarily win free disk space. Turn off
monitoring by System Restore. The second is to set the pagefile to no
pagefile and reboot the computer. You should have doubled your free disk
space to 40% perhaps more. Another idea might be to temporarily
increase your C partition to 16 gb which would take your free disk space
to 50% to 60%. If you do this do it before you eliminate the pagefile.
You should then run Disk Defragmenter and as soon as it has finished set
your pagefile to a minimum and maximum of 1.4 gb and restart the
computer. You do not want Windows to manage the pagefile as using that
setting causes the pagefile file to fragment. The next step is to reset
System Restore to monitor your C partition (it should not be monitoring
other partitions). The folders you moved earlier can be moved back to C.

If you do not change the pagefile setting it will either stay as a
single contiguous file if you have been totally successful or with the
number of fragments you have achieved. As a consequence the free space
on C will less fragmented and it will be much easier to defragment files
in future.


Thanks so much. that gives me plenty to work on.
I already use CCleaner regularly
I have several key folders "off" C:\ partition and on a Data partition
already so not a lot of manouevre there
I have System Restore trimmed down, and Temp Internet files also very
low already.
I may be able to get rid of the Symantec Live Update as I don't really
need that anymore with no more Symantec programs left

I may just bite the bullet and do a bit more sliding of free space with
BootIt and then try your page file trick. I was trying to avoid it
because it is so time consuming!

Once again - thanks.

--
Rev Robert M Jones, Wimborne Baptist Church, UK
http://www.wimborne-baptist.org.uk
Free trial of Mailwasher Pro - effective email spam filter - (commission
goes to our partners in Bulgaria)
http://fta.firetrust.com/index.cgi?id=420

Robert

If you get a good result the pagefile setting can make life a lot easier
once achieved.

Another option, if you have a second drive, is to create a dedicated
pagefile partition at the start of the drive. You then reduce the
pagefile on C to a fixed 50 mb and put the main pagefile in your new
dedicated partition.


--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Robert M Jones wrote:
Gerry wrote:
Robert

An interesting Disk Defragmenter Report.

The problem could be the fragmented pagefile. This is probably
scattered across the drive causing the free space to be equally
fragmented. The pagefile is of course an immovable file. You also
only have 20% free space. You need something approaching 60% free
space to achieve a single contiguous pagefile. It should, however,
be possible to achieve a considerable improvement.

You need to maximise the free disk space before running disk
defragmenter again.

You can generate more space in the system partition by relocation of
folders. They can be relocated back after the exercise has been
completed.

For Temporary Internet Files select Start, Control Panel, Internet
Options, Temporary Internet Files. Settings, Move Folder.

To move the Outlook Express Store Folder select in Outlook Express
Tools, Options, Maintenance, Store Folder, Change.
http://www.tomsterdam.com/insideoe/files/store.htm

My Documents is one of a number of system created Special Folders
including My Pictures and My Music. These can more easily be
relocated using Tweak Ui. Download TweakUI, one of the MS powertoys,
from he
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/p.../powertoys.asp In
TweakUi select My Computer, Special Folders. You can scroll down
to see the full list of Special Folders to the left of the Change
Location button.

Next I am not clear how you are cleaning out redundant files. The
most effective way is cCleaner.

An alternative to Disk CleanUp is cCleaner (freeware) which does a
more thorough job than Disk CleanUp. Disk CleanUp has to be run for
each user profile, whereas cCleaner only needs to be run once.
http://www.ccleaner.com/ccdownload.asp
http://www.ccleaner.com/

With any cleaner you need to proceed with caution. To be safe you
should create a restore point before using cCleaner. cCleaner also
offers backup before removal.

When using cCleaner think twice before checking Autocomplete Form
History under Internet Explorer. You do get a warning but this one
has irritating consequences. You may need to restore your system's
recollection of passwords after use so keep a record off computer so
that they can easily be re-entered.

Leave the Scan for Issues option alone.

Now the two big savings to temporarily win free disk space. Turn off
monitoring by System Restore. The second is to set the pagefile to no
pagefile and reboot the computer. You should have doubled your free
disk space to 40% perhaps more. Another idea might be to temporarily
increase your C partition to 16 gb which would take your free disk
space to 50% to 60%. If you do this do it before you eliminate the
pagefile. You should then run Disk Defragmenter and as soon as it
has finished set your pagefile to a minimum and maximum of 1.4 gb
and restart the computer. You do not want Windows to manage the
pagefile as using that setting causes the pagefile file to fragment.
The next step is to reset System Restore to monitor your C partition
(it should not be monitoring other partitions). The folders you
moved earlier can be moved back to C. If you do not change the
pagefile setting it will either stay as a
single contiguous file if you have been totally successful or with
the number of fragments you have achieved. As a consequence the free
space on C will less fragmented and it will be much easier to
defragment files in future.


Thanks so much. that gives me plenty to work on.
I already use CCleaner regularly
I have several key folders "off" C:\ partition and on a Data partition
already so not a lot of manouevre there
I have System Restore trimmed down, and Temp Internet files also very
low already.
I may be able to get rid of the Symantec Live Update as I don't really
need that anymore with no more Symantec programs left

I may just bite the bullet and do a bit more sliding of free space
with BootIt and then try your page file trick. I was trying to avoid
it because it is so time consuming!

Once again - thanks.

Gerry wrote:
Robert

If you get a good result the pagefile setting can make life a lot easier
once achieved.

Another option, if you have a second drive, is to create a dedicated
pagefile partition at the start of the drive. You then reduce the
pagefile on C to a fixed 50 mb and put the main pagefile in your new
dedicated partition.



I tried your suggestions today - switching off system restore, and
setting page file to NO.
I then got free space to 24% but there was absolutely NO effect on my
defrag performance - still a load of fragmented files that could not be
fragmented - the only difference was that all the "green" (immoveable)
sectors disappeared - presumably they were the ones that were part of
the page file.

So it looks like I am going to have to do the partition sliding sometime
when I have loads of time available.

Thanks for your help - much appreciated.

--
Rev Robert M Jones, Wimborne Baptist Church, UK
http://www.wimborne-baptist.org.uk
Free trial of Mailwasher Pro - effective email spam filter - (commission
goes to our partners in Bulgaria)
http://fta.firetrust.com/index.cgi?id=420

Robert

I do not understand why no pagefile and turning off System Restore only
results in 24% free space when your last Disk Defragmenter report showed
20% free space! It should be much more. Can you please post a further
Disk Defragmenter Report.


--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Robert M Jones wrote:
Gerry wrote:
Robert

If you get a good result the pagefile setting can make life a lot
easier once achieved.

Another option, if you have a second drive, is to create a dedicated
pagefile partition at the start of the drive. You then reduce the
pagefile on C to a fixed 50 mb and put the main pagefile in your new
dedicated partition.



I tried your suggestions today - switching off system restore, and
setting page file to NO.
I then got free space to 24% but there was absolutely NO effect on my
defrag performance - still a load of fragmented files that could not
be fragmented - the only difference was that all the "green"
(immoveable) sectors disappeared - presumably they were the ones that
were part of the page file.

So it looks like I am going to have to do the partition sliding
sometime when I have loads of time available.

Thanks for your help - much appreciated.

Gerry wrote:
Robert

I do not understand why no pagefile and turning off System Restore only
results in 24% free space when your last Disk Defragmenter report showed
20% free space! It should be much more. Can you please post a further
Disk Defragmenter Report.




I did some more deleting and fiddling and got free space up to about 40%
including switching off system restore and the page file. I then tried
another defrag in my Admin account with that amount of free space,

But it made no difference to defrag - still is having virtually no
effect on the fragmentation on C:

I can see some further files that I can delete ormove (I will move that
huge pdf file), but would like guidance on others

Firstly - all those msp files:
and the 2 Skype msi files
and
\WINDOWS\Internet Logs\vsmon_on_demand_2008_11_25_00_14_18_full.dmp. zip
\Program Files\Common Files\SpeechEngines\Microsoft\SR\1033\l1033.ngr
\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_07\lib\rt.jar
\Program Files\Java\jre6\lib\rt.jar

How vital are those?
My current Java is update 11


Here's the report you asked for

Volume WindowsXP (C
Volume size = 12.50 GB
Cluster size = 4 KB
Used space = 7.42 GB
Free space = 5.08 GB
Percent free space = 40 %

Volume fragmentation
Total fragmentation = 9 %
File fragmentation = 17 %
Free space fragmentation = 1 %

File fragmentation
Total files = 43,880
Average file size = 256 KB
Total fragmented files = 63
Total excess fragments = 8,242
Average fragments per file = 1.18

Pagefile fragmentation
Pagefile size = 0 bytes
Total fragments = 0

Folder fragmentation
Total folders = 5,303
Fragmented folders = 1
Excess folder fragments = 0

Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
Total MFT size = 54 MB
MFT record count = 49,366
Percent MFT in use = 89 %
Total MFT fragments = 3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fragments File Size Files that cannot be defragmented
95 11 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\cfe9d9.msp
113 11 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\376eacd.msp
106 12 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\17104cb.msp
106 12 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\4f029c0.msp
106 12 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\242282b9.msp
343 12 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\1b5b5039.msp
132 12 MB \Documents and Settings\*****
user\Application Data\Thunderbird\Profiles\xs4rw30u.default\Mail\Lo cal
Folders\Sent
112 13 MB
\WINDOWS\ServicePackFiles\i386\lang\hwxjpn.dll
124 13 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\17104e2.msp
124 13 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\5d27f56.msp
146 14 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\17104b4.msp
147 14 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\4f029a9.msp
223 15 MB \Documents and Settings\*****
user\Application
Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\6hejn3cy.default\url classifier3.sqlite
67 16 MB \Documents and Settings\Other
users\Local Settings\Application
Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\6glr2jvm.default\Cac he\04C0FD88d01
176 16 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\122241b.msp
498 16 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\1b5b5022.msp
191 17 MB \Documents and Settings\***** user\Local
Settings\Application
Data\Skype\{5C82DAE5-6EB0-4374-9254-BE3319BA4E82}\Skype.msi
209 17 MB \Documents and Settings\Other
users\Local Settings\Application
Data\Skype\{5C82DAE5-6EB0-4374-9254-BE3319BA4E82}\Skype.msi
270 17 MB \WINDOWS\repair\RegBack\software
279 17 MB \WINDOWS\Internet
Logs\vsmon_on_demand_2008_11_25_00_14_18_full.dmp. zip
68 23 MB \Program Files\Common
Files\SpeechEngines\Microsoft\SR\1033\l1033.ngr
74 27 MB \Program
Files\MSECACHE\O2007Cnv\1033\O12Conv.cab
97 27 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\552f80.msi
100 41 MB \Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_07\lib\rt.jar
490 42 MB \Program Files\Java\jre6\lib\rt.jar
812 51 MB \Documents and Settings\***** user\Local
Settings\Application Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\ssq91pui.proxy
profile\urlclassifier3.sqlite
804 53 MB \Documents and Settings\***** user\Local
Settings\Application
Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\6hejn3cy.default\url classifier3.sqlite
762 53 MB \Documents and Settings\Other
users\Local Settings\Application
Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\6glr2jvm.default\url classifier3.sqlite
59 59 MB \Documents and Settings\Other users\My
Documents\Railway Timetables\CompleteTimetable.pdf
143 114 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\cafb1d.msp

Once again - many thanks for the help.

--
Rev Robert M Jones, Wimborne Baptist Church, UK
http://www.wimborne-baptist.org.uk
Free trial of Mailwasher Pro - effective email spam filter - (commission
goes to our partners in Bulgaria)
http://fta.firetrust.com/index.cgi?id=420

Robert

I did some further research on your problem. It still has me puzzled
which is why I have not responded earlier.

msp files are patchs.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...78(VS.85).aspx

My feeling is that you should not remove them. In Google I found one
report suggesting that Disk Defragmenter cannot defragment an msp file
because it is in use. However I have a number of msp files on my
computer which are not fragmented and this leads me to doubt whether
the" in use" suggestion is credible.

I would try running Disk Defragmenter in Safe Mode

Please let me know if this suggestion make any difference.


--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Robert M Jones wrote:
Gerry wrote:
Robert

I do not understand why no pagefile and turning off System Restore
only results in 24% free space when your last Disk Defragmenter
report showed 20% free space! It should be much more. Can you please
post a further Disk Defragmenter Report.




I did some more deleting and fiddling and got free space up to about
40% including switching off system restore and the page file. I then
tried another defrag in my Admin account with that amount of free
space,
But it made no difference to defrag - still is having virtually no
effect on the fragmentation on C:

I can see some further files that I can delete ormove (I will move
that huge pdf file), but would like guidance on others

Firstly - all those msp files:
and the 2 Skype msi files
and
\WINDOWS\Internet
Logs\vsmon_on_demand_2008_11_25_00_14_18_full.dmp. zip \Program
Files\Common Files\SpeechEngines\Microsoft\SR\1033\l1033.ngr \Program
Files\Java\jre1.6.0_07\lib\rt.jar \Program Files\Java\jre6\lib\rt.jar

How vital are those?
My current Java is update 11


Here's the report you asked for

Volume WindowsXP (C
Volume size = 12.50 GB
Cluster size = 4 KB
Used space = 7.42 GB
Free space = 5.08 GB
Percent free space = 40 %

Volume fragmentation
Total fragmentation = 9 %
File fragmentation = 17 %
Free space fragmentation = 1 %

File fragmentation
Total files = 43,880
Average file size = 256 KB
Total fragmented files = 63
Total excess fragments = 8,242
Average fragments per file = 1.18

Pagefile fragmentation
Pagefile size = 0 bytes
Total fragments = 0

Folder fragmentation
Total folders = 5,303
Fragmented folders = 1
Excess folder fragments = 0

Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
Total MFT size = 54 MB
MFT record count = 49,366
Percent MFT in use = 89 %
Total MFT fragments = 3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fragments File Size Files that cannot be defragmented
95 11 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\cfe9d9.msp
113 11 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\376eacd.msp
106 12 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\17104cb.msp
106 12 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\4f029c0.msp
106 12 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\242282b9.msp
343 12 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\1b5b5039.msp
132 12 MB \Documents and Settings\*****
user\Application Data\Thunderbird\Profiles\xs4rw30u.default\Mail\Lo cal
Folders\Sent
112 13 MB
\WINDOWS\ServicePackFiles\i386\lang\hwxjpn.dll
124 13 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\17104e2.msp
124 13 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\5d27f56.msp
146 14 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\17104b4.msp
147 14 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\4f029a9.msp
223 15 MB \Documents and Settings\*****
user\Application
Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\6hejn3cy.default\url classifier3.sqlite
67 16 MB \Documents and Settings\Other
users\Local Settings\Application
Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\6glr2jvm.default\Cac he\04C0FD88d01
176 16 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\122241b.msp
498 16 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\1b5b5022.msp
191 17 MB \Documents and Settings\*****
user\Local Settings\Application
Data\Skype\{5C82DAE5-6EB0-4374-9254-BE3319BA4E82}\Skype.msi
209 17 MB \Documents and Settings\Other
users\Local Settings\Application
Data\Skype\{5C82DAE5-6EB0-4374-9254-BE3319BA4E82}\Skype.msi
270 17 MB \WINDOWS\repair\RegBack\software
279 17 MB \WINDOWS\Internet
Logs\vsmon_on_demand_2008_11_25_00_14_18_full.dmp. zip
68 23 MB \Program Files\Common
Files\SpeechEngines\Microsoft\SR\1033\l1033.ngr
74 27 MB \Program
Files\MSECACHE\O2007Cnv\1033\O12Conv.cab
97 27 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\552f80.msi
100 41 MB \Program
Files\Java\jre1.6.0_07\lib\rt.jar 490 42 MB
\Program Files\Java\jre6\lib\rt.jar 812 51 MB
\Documents and Settings\***** user\Local Settings\Application
Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\ssq91pui.proxy
profile\urlclassifier3.sqlite 804 53 MB
\Documents and Settings\***** user\Local Settings\Application
Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\6hejn3cy.default\url classifier3.sqlite
762 53 MB \Documents and Settings\Other
users\Local Settings\Application
Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\6glr2jvm.default\url classifier3.sqlite
59 59 MB \Documents and Settings\Other users\My
Documents\Railway Timetables\CompleteTimetable.pdf
143 114 MB \WINDOWS\Installer\cafb1d.msp

Once again - many thanks for the help.

Gerry wrote:
Robert

I did some further research on your problem. It still has me puzzled
which is why I have not responded earlier.

msp files are patchs.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...78(VS.85).aspx

My feeling is that you should not remove them. In Google I found one
report suggesting that Disk Defragmenter cannot defragment an msp file
because it is in use. However I have a number of msp files on my
computer which are not fragmented and this leads me to doubt whether
the" in use" suggestion is credible.

I would try running Disk Defragmenter in Safe Mode

Please let me know if this suggestion make any difference.



Okay I've tried this - I went into Safe Mode, and chose the Default
Admin account rather than my "created" adminstrator account, and then
switched off system restore and switched off page filing and restarted
in safe mode again, in the Default Admin account - this left C:\
partition at 12.5GB with 5.33GB free space, 42% free space.

I ran defrag on C:\ again and got exactly the same results - the same
list of files that could not be defragmented. After analysis there were
NO unmoveable files, but the defrag is still not touching those files -
the list seems to be the same - mostly msp files and a few others.

Any further advice (or places to go next) greatly appreciated. With the
partition in the state that it is, my page file when created is
obviously fragmented at the point of re-creation. - while most of the
files don't seem to be files that Windows would be analysing, obviously
the page file is.

--
Rev Robert M Jones, Wimborne Baptist Church, UK
http://www.wimborne-baptist.org.uk
Free trial of Mailwasher Pro - effective email spam filter - (commission
goes to our partners in Bulgaria)
http://fta.firetrust.com/index.cgi?id=420

Robert M Jones wrote:
Gerry wrote:
Robert

I did some further research on your problem. It still has me puzzled
which is why I have not responded earlier.

msp files are patchs.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...78(VS.85).aspx

My feeling is that you should not remove them. In Google I found one
report suggesting that Disk Defragmenter cannot defragment an msp file
because it is in use. However I have a number of msp files on my
computer which are not fragmented and this leads me to doubt whether
the" in use" suggestion is credible.

I would try running Disk Defragmenter in Safe Mode

Please let me know if this suggestion make any difference.



Okay I've tried this - I went into Safe Mode, and chose the Default
Admin account rather than my "created" adminstrator account, and then
switched off system restore and switched off page filing and restarted
in safe mode again, in the Default Admin account - this left C:\
partition at 12.5GB with 5.33GB free space, 42% free space.

I ran defrag on C:\ again and got exactly the same results - the same
list of files that could not be defragmented. After analysis there were
NO unmoveable files, but the defrag is still not touching those files -
the list seems to be the same - mostly msp files and a few others.

Any further advice (or places to go next) greatly appreciated. With the
partition in the state that it is, my page file when created is
obviously fragmented at the point of re-creation. - while most of the
files don't seem to be files that Windows would be analysing, obviously
the page file is.


Just to say that I downloaded Defraggler.exe and it has done a fair bit
to solve my problem, although I still have been unable to obtain a large
enough block of free space at the end of my drive to insert a congiguous
1437MB fixed pagefile.sys

Seems many others on the defraggler forums have the same issue - the
defrag free space option doesn't completely defrag free space.

But at least now the pagefile.sys is the ONLY fragmented file and it is
in three sections only.

Never did work out why I couldn't defrag all those msi and msp files
using the XP defrag utility. Tried everything suggested and thanks to
those who made suggestions. I finally got down to about 45% free space
and the XP defrag still couldn't do the job with or without pagefile.sys
or System Restore.

--
Rev Robert M Jones, Wimborne Baptist Church, UK
http://www.wimborne-baptist.org.uk
Free trial of Mailwasher Pro - effective email spam filter - (commission
goes to our partners in Bulgaria)
http://fta.firetrust.com/index.cgi?id=420

Robert

Your problem defeated me. I do not understand why your msp files were so
fragmented. The only explanation remaining that I can think is that the
patchs were installed when the system was significantly fragmented.

I did not realise defraggler was freeware. I just downloaded and tested.
An interesting tool.

--
Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Robert M Jones wrote:
Robert M Jones wrote:
Gerry wrote:
Robert

I did some further research on your problem. It still has me puzzled
which is why I have not responded earlier.

msp files are patchs.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...78(VS.85).aspx

My feeling is that you should not remove them. In Google I found one
report suggesting that Disk Defragmenter cannot defragment an msp
file because it is in use. However I have a number of msp files on
my computer which are not fragmented and this leads me to doubt
whether the" in use" suggestion is credible.

I would try running Disk Defragmenter in Safe Mode

Please let me know if this suggestion make any difference.



Okay I've tried this - I went into Safe Mode, and chose the Default
Admin account rather than my "created" adminstrator account, and then
switched off system restore and switched off page filing and
restarted in safe mode again, in the Default Admin account - this
left C:\ partition at 12.5GB with 5.33GB free space, 42% free space.

I ran defrag on C:\ again and got exactly the same results - the same
list of files that could not be defragmented. After analysis there
were NO unmoveable files, but the defrag is still not touching those
files - the list seems to be the same - mostly msp files and a few
others. Any further advice (or places to go next) greatly
appreciated. With
the partition in the state that it is, my page file when created is
obviously fragmented at the point of re-creation. - while most of the
files don't seem to be files that Windows would be analysing,
obviously the page file is.


Just to say that I downloaded Defraggler.exe and it has done a fair
bit to solve my problem, although I still have been unable to obtain
a large enough block of free space at the end of my drive to insert a
congiguous 1437MB fixed pagefile.sys

Seems many others on the defraggler forums have the same issue - the
defrag free space option doesn't completely defrag free space.

But at least now the pagefile.sys is the ONLY fragmented file and it
is in three sections only.

Never did work out why I couldn't defrag all those msi and msp files
using the XP defrag utility. Tried everything suggested and thanks to
those who made suggestions. I finally got down to about 45% free space
and the XP defrag still couldn't do the job with or without
pagefile.sys or System Restore.

Gerry wrote:
Robert

Your problem defeated me. I do not understand why your msp files were so
fragmented. The only explanation remaining that I can think is that the
patchs were installed when the system was significantly fragmented.

I did not realise defraggler was freeware. I just downloaded and tested.
An interesting tool.


Thanks for trying Gerry. I did eventually move all the installer files
that were fragmented to another partition temporarily, but that didn't
make much difference to what the XP defrag utility could do. Even with
about 46% free space and no system restore files and no page file, it
still seemed unable to defrag the drive properly.

Defraggler seems to do a much better job although others on forums seem
also to have difficulty getting it to defrag the last two or three files
and having fragmented free space seems very difficult to avoid - hence
the difficulty of getting that unfragmented page file.

As I have bought myself an external hard drive for Christmas, I may get
more adventurous as I can now easily image the C:\ partition to the
external drive with BootIt (TM) before any experiments.

Once again thanks. See you back on BT group!

--
Rev Robert M Jones, Wimborne Baptist Church, UK
http://www.wimborne-baptist.org.uk
Free trial of Mailwasher Pro - effective email spam filter - (commission
goes to our partners in Bulgaria)
http://fta.firetrust.com/index.cgi?id=420

Robert

I have been playing with Defraggler. It is quick. Although it gives a
lot of information it does not report on the pagefile or the MFT. I have
also noticed that it reports the volume as defragmented and if you then
analyse the drive using Disk Defragmenter you get a report saying there
are fragments.

One defragmenter which consolidates free space is Perfect Disk. This has
long had a good name but you pay $40 for the privilege.
http://www.raxco.com/home_office/hom...ofessional.cfm


--
Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Robert M Jones wrote:
Gerry wrote:
Robert

Your problem defeated me. I do not understand why your msp files
were so fragmented. The only explanation remaining that I can think
is that the patchs were installed when the system was significantly
fragmented. I did not realise defraggler was freeware. I just
downloaded and
tested. An interesting tool.


Thanks for trying Gerry. I did eventually move all the installer files
that were fragmented to another partition temporarily, but that didn't
make much difference to what the XP defrag utility could do. Even with
about 46% free space and no system restore files and no page file, it
still seemed unable to defrag the drive properly.

Defraggler seems to do a much better job although others on forums
seem also to have difficulty getting it to defrag the last two or
three files and having fragmented free space seems very difficult to
avoid - hence the difficulty of getting that unfragmented page file.

As I have bought myself an external hard drive for Christmas, I may
get more adventurous as I can now easily image the C:\ partition to
the external drive with BootIt (TM) before any experiments.

Once again thanks. See you back on BT group!