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#31
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Email Info BackUp ?!
In message , Mayayana
writes: [] I half expect that it won't be long before I'm stopped on the street for not having a computer phone. Soon it will be (-: )-: [] It's quickly getting to a place where privacy will be cause for suspicion. That's another one for my quotes file. (Except I think you're a bit late - it already is in many people's mind. [I was going to say minds, but they all share the one.]) (As Eric Schmidt of Google said: If you need privacy then maybe you're doing something you shouldn't be. He should know. Schmidt famously got a condo with no doorman to make sure no one would be around to gossip about his promiscuous sex life.) (-: [] There's no entity that stands to benefit from common decency except you. Today I saw an encouraging thing, though: Tim Berner's-Lee is proposing a "magna carta of the Internet", to officially establish a right to privacy and access for everyone in the world. That sounds nice. Go Tim. If we don't do something it will all be commercially owned very soon. Yes, lethargy will indeed cause that. (Commercially and government, that is.) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf "He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; he who dares not is a slave." - Sir William Drummond Above all things, use your mind. Don't be that bigot, fool, or slave. |
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#32
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Email Info BackUp ?!
Bill in Co wrote:
Roger Blake wrote: On 2018-11-05, Bill in Co wrote: I think there might be another reason. If you want easy accessibility of all your local email from any of your computers, no matter where you are - and especially if you are mobile, how are you going to readily do it without using webmail? I've been doing that for decades, since well before "thuh web" even existed, by connecting a terminal session to a Unix host. Email is then accessed via a text-based program run from the shell. Still do it that way. No webmail required. (In the old days it would be via dialup modem. Today ssh is the ticket.) Well, I did say "readily". :-) I'm figuring the typical user doesn't have access to that. So, just thinking about someone who owns a couple of Windows computers,cell phones, and Android tablets, and perhaps travels a bit, IF one doesn't use webmail, it sure seems to me it would be a bit limiting for them. Well, I did say "readily". :-) I'm figuring the typical user doesn't have access to that. Webmail (client) or no webmail (client) isn't the issue. The issue is whether the mail is stored on the user's computer or on some mail server(s). I.e. if these Windows computers, cell phones and Android tablets all use IMAP for any and all accounts, the mail can be accessed by all these devices without the need for 'webmail'. When Mayayana used the term 'webmail' he actually meant - see his later correction - 'sleazy mail provider'. I.e. your - completely legit - ISP/MSP might be offering a 'webmail' *client*, but that's not what Mayayana is concerned about. Mayayana is concerned about the 'sleazy mail provider's, such as Gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail, whatever. Even if you do not use a webmail *client* with these providers, but use a local POP or IMAP client, they're still 'sleazy'. So that leaves the issue of whether or not to leave your email on the servers of 'sleazy mail provider's. If you use POP, you don't leave it on their servers (but *they* might still keep it), but you don't have access to your mail from your other computers/devices (unless you set up some not-so-straightforward POP configurations). If you don't leave it on their servers - i.e. you use POP -, but still want access to your mail from all your computers/devices, then things become more complex. Roger mentioned a solution. If one of your computers is always/mostly up, another solution is to store all your mail on a local server which aggregates all your mail accounts. One such server is Hamster. I use Hamster to aggregate articles from my News providers, but it can do the same for email. The 'trick' is that to your mail servers Hamster looks like a (POP/IMAP) client and to your email clients, Hamster looks lik a (POP/IMAP) server. Also some NAS (Network Attached Storage) devices can have a mail server and can be accessed via the Internet. If you use such a setup, only the NAS has to be up all/most of the time. Etc., etc. So there are many solutions Some simpler than others. And of course each with its advantages and disadvantages. |
#33
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Email Info BackUp ?!
"Ken Blake" wrote
| Having said that I don't particularly like Thunderbird, I'll add that | I don't hate it; in my view, it's considerably better than any | web-based e-mail. Perhaps you should qualify that: Your choice is $30. For *free* email/newsgroups the only reasonable choices I've ever found are OE and TB. Windows Mail may be OK. I haven't tried it. I set up TB for friends. It's hard to argue with free for that. It does everything anyone is likely to want. The GUI and general design are clunky, but it works fine once it's set up. |
#34
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Email Info BackUp ?!
On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 15:59:55 -0700, "Bill in Co"
wrote: Mayayana wrote: "mechanic" wrote ... And of course I'd also agree with everyone else: Never, under any circumstances, use webmail. That seems a bit harsh. Email service providers can include secure storage and communication in their package, and whether the messages are accessed by IMAP or webmail makes no difference to that. Note the smiley. It was a joke because he got several responses telling him he should get off the webmail. Nevertheless, personally I wouldn't use webmail and do think the only reason to use it is inability or unwilling laziness about setting up a client(s). That's largely right, but there's one other reason that applies to some people--not realizing they have the choice of using an e-mail program. I think there might be another reason. If you want easy accessibility of all your local email from any of your computers, no matter where you are - and especially if you are mobile, how are you going to readily do it without using webmail? It's easy. I do it all the time when I travel. You can (but don't have to) use IMAP, and install an e-mail program on all your devices. As I think I said in another message in this thread, before wi-fi was readily available in most hotels, I used to use web-based e-mail on public computers that I rented by the hour. Now I do e-mail with an e-mail program on my smart phone in my hotel room. And I don't even use IMAP. I just set my phone's e-mail program (Bluemail) not to delete messages when I read them. I want them to still be there when I return home. I guess the only way is if you have everything somehow perfectly networked together, no matter where you are, but I can see some potential limitations even in this approach. Not at all necessary. That said, I don't know anything about IMAP, and maybe that gets around some of those limitations. Yes. Gets around *all* of them. (I'm just using OE locally here, with a POP3, ISP account, so I just don't know). Outlook Express? On Windows 7? It's not available, but OE Classic, a third-party clone of it, is. |
#35
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Email Info BackUp ?!
On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 16:40:41 -0700, "Bill in Co"
wrote: Roger Blake wrote: On 2018-11-05, Bill in Co wrote: I think there might be another reason. If you want easy accessibility of all your local email from any of your computers, no matter where you are - and especially if you are mobile, how are you going to readily do it without using webmail? I've been doing that for decades, since well before "thuh web" even existed, by connecting a terminal session to a Unix host. Email is then accessed via a text-based program run from the shell. Still do it that way. No webmail required. (In the old days it would be via dialup modem. Today ssh is the ticket.) Well, I did say "readily". :-) I'm figuring the typical user doesn't have access to that. So, just thinking about someone who owns a couple of Windows computers,cell phones, and Android tablets, and perhaps travels a bit, IF one doesn't use webmail, it sure seems to me it would be a bit limiting for them. As I just said in another message in this thread, not, it's not at all limiting. It's easy. I do it all the time. |
#36
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Email Info BackUp ?!
In message , Ken Blake
writes: On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 20:10:10 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote: I'd agree with the others who say do try a real email client. (And for long enough to see the difference - two or three weeks at least, I'd say.) Yes, two or three weeks, at least. I'd like to stress that again. It's far too often that someone tries a piece of software for just a few minutes, decides he doesn't like it, and switches away from it. It takes some time to get to know a piece of software, learn how to use it, and find and set all its options the way you like it. Very true. Thunderbird is IMO a good compromise between best and well-supported - a lot of ISPs, for example, have instructions specific to setting it up with them, probably including yours. I've tried Thunderbird, and don't particularly like it. We're all different and have different ways of working and different likes and dislikes. That's why it's best to try, not just one, but a few e-mail programs. Although our reluctant victim is unlikely to be willing to spend the requisite two or three weeks trying each of several email prog.s, given he hasn't as yet agreed with us that webmail leaves something to be desired. Having said that I don't particularly like Thunderbird, I'll add that I don't hate it; in my view, it's considerably better than any web-based e-mail. (In reply to Mayayana's followup that "Your choice is $30" - I don't see in Ken's post what his choice is; but you may have seen his choice expressed in other posts. Perhaps I should have said for a _free_ email/news client, I think TB is a good compromise between good and widely-supported.) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Religion is a name for opinion that cannot be argued about. [Heard on Radio 4, 2010-10-18, 9:xx.] |
#37
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Email Info BackUp ?!
On 11/5/2018 10:58 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11/5/18 6:20 AM, wrote: Why not backup your entire system?Â* See my http://www.rossde.com/computer/computer_backup.html. Indeed a possibility, but I just didn't want all the trouble. I do keep regular backups of critical stuff ( docs, spreadsheats, passwords, music mp3s, developed softeare programs, other special programs, etc. ). I have found system backups useful several times, when the system became unbootable. Maybe I needed a new hard disk With all of the replies here it is obvious that there are many different requirements depending on individual circumstances. Primary: There is NO BACKUP unless there are at lest TWO independent copies of the info. I am also an Optimum user and I travel. Win 7 Desktop at home and iPad and iPhone while away. I use Gmail web-mail because IMO it has the best spam filters and message filters which Optimum does not offer. My contact list is on my D/T AND iDevices. While home my d/t is backed up nightly to NAS and includes contacts. While traveling, if needed, I can access NAS over the net. Primary email access is thru FireFox. Secondary on D/T is Thunderbird IMAP. iCloud can be configured to copy contacts if you want a suspender to go with your belt but there is NO back up without at least two copies. -- Zaidy036 |
#38
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Email Info BackUp ?!
On 11/5/18 10:43 AM, Wolf K wrote:
[snip] You can even copy to another OS. At least I've copied between Windows and Linux. Er, I think that's what's implied in "... copy to ... any new device." It will work for the same same device (backup or dual boot system) too. But thanks for making it explicit. Only caveat: profiles.ini, which points to the current profile on Windows, is done differently on other OSs. [...] Best, Path names are in a different format. For one thing, drive letters are Windows-specific. I don't copy profiles.ini I copy the contents of the selected profile directory. -- 49 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "My best advice to anyone who wants to raise a happy, mentally healthy child is: KEEP HIM OR HER AS FAR AWAY FROM A CHURCH AS YOU CAN." [Frank Zappa] |
#39
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Email Info BackUp ?!
On 11/5/18 11:05 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
[snip] Webmail can be convenient when you have to use a different computer (or let someone else use yours to check mail), although IMAP with a mail program is better (including getting to make your own backups). Back in the days before wi-fi access in hotels was common, when I traveled I used to use public computers for e-mail. So I would use webmail then. But those days are long gone: it's been years since I needed to do that. You would if you didn't have your own device with you, and that CAN happen. -- 49 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "My best advice to anyone who wants to raise a happy, mentally healthy child is: KEEP HIM OR HER AS FAR AWAY FROM A CHURCH AS YOU CAN." [Frank Zappa] |
#40
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Email Info BackUp ?!
On 11/5/18 11:43 AM, Mayayana wrote:
[snip] I once tried to figure out how to just get the server name, port and TLS status for a given email server programmatically. (An MSA. The server that client email programs talk to.) I finally had to give up. There's no standardized, dependable way to call xyz.com and ask how to send an email through them, much less how to retrieve email from them. Once when I helped someone set up an internet connection, the ISP insisted she use webmail (likely because of the ads, and they inserted spam into every outgoing message). I figured out how to use POP (IIRC, prepend 'mail.' to the domain name, and use the normal ports). [snip] -- 49 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "My best advice to anyone who wants to raise a happy, mentally healthy child is: KEEP HIM OR HER AS FAR AWAY FROM A CHURCH AS YOU CAN." [Frank Zappa] |
#41
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Email Info BackUp ?!
On 11/5/18 2:10 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
[snip] I'd agree with the others who say do try a real email client. (And for long enough to see the difference - two or three weeks at least, I'd say.) Thunderbird is IMO a good compromise between best and well-supported - a lot of ISPs, for example, have instructions specific to setting it up with them, probably including yours. I wish they'd include a simple listing of the relevant settings, as well as the overcomplicated program-specific ones. -- 49 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "My best advice to anyone who wants to raise a happy, mentally healthy child is: KEEP HIM OR HER AS FAR AWAY FROM A CHURCH AS YOU CAN." [Frank Zappa] |
#42
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Email Info BackUp ?!
On 11/5/18 2:14 PM, mechanic wrote:
On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 11:44:23 -0500, Mayayana wrote: ... And of course I'd also agree with everyone else: Never, under any circumstances, use webmail. That seems a bit harsh. Email service providers can include secure storage and communication in their package, and whether the messages are accessed by IMAP or webmail makes no difference to that. Webmail does provide the ISP an opportunity to make you see more ads, I wouldn't say never use it, but a real email program is much better. -- 49 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "My best advice to anyone who wants to raise a happy, mentally healthy child is: KEEP HIM OR HER AS FAR AWAY FROM A CHURCH AS YOU CAN." [Frank Zappa] |
#43
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Email Info BackUp ?!
On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 11:03:45 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote: On 11/5/18 11:05 AM, Ken Blake wrote: [snip] Webmail can be convenient when you have to use a different computer (or let someone else use yours to check mail), although IMAP with a mail program is better (including getting to make your own backups). Back in the days before wi-fi access in hotels was common, when I traveled I used to use public computers for e-mail. So I would use webmail then. But those days are long gone: it's been years since I needed to do that. You would if you didn't have your own device with you, and that CAN happen. Can? Yes. Likely? No, not all? The device I use for e-mail when I travel is my smart phone, and I always have it with me. |
#44
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Email Info BackUp ?!
On 11/6/18 10:37 AM, Zaidy036 wrote:
[snip] Primary: There is NO BACKUP unless there are at lest TWO independent copies of the info. True. Better with at least one offline at all times (can be accomplished with two sets of media, used alternately). [snip] -- 49 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "My best advice to anyone who wants to raise a happy, mentally healthy child is: KEEP HIM OR HER AS FAR AWAY FROM A CHURCH AS YOU CAN." [Frank Zappa] |
#45
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Email Info BackUp ?!
On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 16:03:42 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote: In message , Ken Blake writes: On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 20:10:10 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote: I'd agree with the others who say do try a real email client. (And for long enough to see the difference - two or three weeks at least, I'd say.) Yes, two or three weeks, at least. I'd like to stress that again. It's far too often that someone tries a piece of software for just a few minutes, decides he doesn't like it, and switches away from it. It takes some time to get to know a piece of software, learn how to use it, and find and set all its options the way you like it. Very true. Thunderbird is IMO a good compromise between best and well-supported - a lot of ISPs, for example, have instructions specific to setting it up with them, probably including yours. I've tried Thunderbird, and don't particularly like it. We're all different and have different ways of working and different likes and dislikes. That's why it's best to try, not just one, but a few e-mail programs. Although our reluctant victim is unlikely to be willing to spend the requisite two or three weeks trying each of several email prog.s, given he hasn't as yet agreed with us that webmail leaves something to be desired. His choice entirely. Having said that I don't particularly like Thunderbird, I'll add that I don't hate it; in my view, it's considerably better than any web-based e-mail. (In reply to Mayayana's followup that "Your choice is $30" - I don't see There are several good free e-mail programs available. Here's on listing of a few https://www.lifewire.com/top-free-wi...ograms-1174215 and a Google search will find more. Also I think Windows Live Mail isn't too bad. in Ken's post what his choice is; but you may have seen his choice I use Outlook 2016, although it's not free. expressed in other posts. Perhaps I should have said for a _free_ email/news client, I think TB is a good compromise between good and widely-supported.) |
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