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#16
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Regarding Free Windows 10 for 12 Months
On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:11:54 -0400, Paul wrote:
How is activation managed ? Your Win7SP1 qualifying key, plus a hardware hash (effectively your NIC MAC address) are uploaded to Microsoft. In return, Microsoft sends an activation record of some sort, back to the PC doing the upgrade. Now, it's activated. That entry on the Microsoft server, is your "key". Any time a machine with your exact hardware hash calls on the Microsoft server, that activation record will be consulted. Wouldn't it be funny if they used *only* the NIC MAC address, since that piece of information is trivially easy to change/copy/clone/whatever. That wasn't the case in the past though, and isn't likely to be the case now. They'll use multiple pieces of information, probably with weighting factors, so that minor changes can be accomplished without invalidating the license. |
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#17
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Regarding Free Windows 10 for 12 Months
Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:11:54 -0400, Paul wrote: How is activation managed ? Your Win7SP1 qualifying key, plus a hardware hash (effectively your NIC MAC address) are uploaded to Microsoft. In return, Microsoft sends an activation record of some sort, back to the PC doing the upgrade. Now, it's activated. That entry on the Microsoft server, is your "key". Any time a machine with your exact hardware hash calls on the Microsoft server, that activation record will be consulted. Wouldn't it be funny if they used *only* the NIC MAC address, since that piece of information is trivially easy to change/copy/clone/whatever. That wasn't the case in the past though, and isn't likely to be the case now. They'll use multiple pieces of information, probably with weighting factors, so that minor changes can be accomplished without invalidating the license. We might discover more as time goes by, if say a user changes out a video card, or changes RAM amount, and something happens to their "free" Win10. Maybe Microsoft's phone support for these kinds of issues will be flawless. They could feel the same degree of obligation as they would feel if dealing with an activation issue for the qualifying OS, so concerns about hardware configuration over time aren't a big deal. Paul |
#18
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Regarding Free Windows 10 for 12 Months
On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 12:23:57 -0400, Paul wrote:
Char Jackson wrote: On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:11:54 -0400, Paul wrote: How is activation managed ? Your Win7SP1 qualifying key, plus a hardware hash (effectively your NIC MAC address) are uploaded to Microsoft. In return, Microsoft sends an activation record of some sort, back to the PC doing the upgrade. Now, it's activated. That entry on the Microsoft server, is your "key". Any time a machine with your exact hardware hash calls on the Microsoft server, that activation record will be consulted. Wouldn't it be funny if they used *only* the NIC MAC address, since that piece of information is trivially easy to change/copy/clone/whatever. That wasn't the case in the past though, and isn't likely to be the case now. They'll use multiple pieces of information, probably with weighting factors, so that minor changes can be accomplished without invalidating the license. We might discover more as time goes by, if say a user changes out a video card, or changes RAM amount, and something happens to their "free" Win10. Maybe Microsoft's phone support for these kinds of issues will be flawless. They could feel the same degree of obligation as they would feel if dealing with an activation issue for the qualifying OS, so concerns about hardware configuration over time aren't a big deal. That's pretty optimistic. :-) |
#19
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Regarding Free Windows 10 for 12 Months
On 8/9/2015 6:56 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 04:14:19 -0400, ". . .winston" wrote: SC Tom wrote on 08/08/2015 6:36 PM: ". . .winston" wrote in message ... Ed Cryer wrote on 08/08/2015 1:45 PM: Keith wrote: The Windows 10 icon on my task bar has gone through "Reserve" to, just now "Get W10" and I get a report saying, basically,my laptop is "Good to go" and there is no Guest account in W10 (I don't use it so it's irrelevant. But, another nugget appeared: "Why did I see a notification that I won't be able to restore factory settings? You'll see this message if the manufacturer set up your PC to run from a compressed Windows image file and included an option to restore factory settings. After the upgrade, you won’t be able to restore factory settings, but other recovery options will be available." I'm running on a small Sony Vaio, no DVD and I expect that (I've had to use it once) "restore factory settings" runs from a compressed image file. Are the "other recovery options will be available." available? I do use Macrium Reflect (free) to write image files to my NAS - will they be usable after 'upgrading' to W10? I had the same when I put Win10 on my tablet. The thing that you'll appreciate is that it offers me a return to Win8.1. The removal of "factory settings" is occasioned by space limitations on the HD. It's rather like on Android phones where "factory settings" doesn't mean what it says on the can (space limitations prevents them including an image of the original set-up). After installing Win10 you have a month to restore. And the Macrium Reflect images will be utilisable. Make sure you have a Macrium restore disc. Ed After installing Win10 you have a month to restore **using the 'Go Back' Win10 included feature. After a month the 'Go Back' option will not be available since Win10 will automatically purge the files it retained for performing the 'Go Back' The inability to use the 'Go Back' feature does not preempt the ability to use other restore type methods (Recovery disks provided by the OEM or created by the user to return the device to factory condition, 3rd party imaging tool that created a backup image to external media or different drive prior to the upgrade, Windows 8.1 included Backup/Restore System Image created on external media/different drive prior to the upgrade, etc.) I think the question on that would be, if you restore from image after 30 days, will your newly restored old OS be able to be activated now that Microsoft already has that system as being upgraded to Win10? Since it hasn't been 30 days since it was released, the jury seems to still be out on that verdict :-) The sheer presence of the GoBack feature and the ability to return to the prior and activated o/s used to upgrade to 10 is the reassurance that the reverting to the prior o/s will yield an activated prior o/s....i.e. if it didn't then GoBack would not be included (Think about it g) - it's really easy to deduce. *During the 30 day period*, yes, it's really easy to deduce. ;-) But the question was, what happens after that? What happens to the qualifying license after windows.old is gone, using windows.old as the marker for the end of the 30 day period. The answer to that question isn't as easy to deduce, which is why the jury is out. We need to see the 30 day period elapse to see what happens, since Microsoft hasn't said anything meaningful on the topic. The ability to revert to a prior o/s with an activated license is statistically independent of the Win10 upgrade and the license and device footprint retained in the MSFT Store. Exactly, and since MS hasn't provided concrete guidance, we're in a wait and see mode. Correct me if I'm wrong... I have win7 installed by the vendor of the PC. I have a license key that's the generic "activation not required" key shared by a zillion other devices from that vendor. I upgraded to win 10. If I go back to win7 by restoring a win7 image, how can they invalidate my key? I don't think my system would even ask??? Yes? No? |
#20
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Regarding Free Windows 10 for 12 Months
SC Tom wrote on 08/09/2015 8:09 AM:
". . .winston" wrote in message The sheer presence of the GoBack feature and the ability to return to the prior and activated o/s used to upgrade to 10 is the reassurance that the reverting to the prior o/s will yield an activated prior o/s....i.e. if it didn't then GoBack would not be included (Think about it g) - it's really easy to deduce. But you're still talking about being within the 30-day limit. Both apply...before and after. MSFT isn't always clear, but 'that is the meaning' The 30 day limit and purging the files is central to a system status changing over time..thus as time moves forward, the benefit to 'Go Back' to o/s condition at the time of upgrade becomes less meaningful. OK, now you're at day35 (hypothetically), and the GoBack feature is disabled, and the old OS files have been purged, so now there is no going back using the Win10 feature. What happens if NOW you decide you don't like Win10, and wipe the HDD with an image you made of your drive with the old OS? Are you going to have an activated version of Win8.1 (assuming that's where I started), or am I going to have to pay for it again? Win 8.1 will remain activated. It's statistically independent (think orthoganally). Upgrading does not preempt the existance of the qualifying prior o/s license for use if 10 is removed. Remove 10....you're good to go on 8.1 Since I couldn't go back using the Win10 feature, AFA Microsoft knows, the Win10 upgrade is still active from the upgrade from Win8.1, and now they're both supposedly installed/active. Will Microsoft's license servers be able to eventually tell that, or am I going to be stuck with an "illegal" copy of Win8.1? Since I upgraded from Win8.1 to Win10, wouldn't that invalidate/de-activate my Win8.1 license? Your license for 8.1 is valid (see above, remove 10, you're good to go on 8.1) -- ...winston msft mvp windows experience |
#21
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Regarding Free Windows 10 for 12 Months
Char Jackson wrote on 08/09/2015 9:56 AM:
On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 04:14:19 -0400, ". . .winston" wrote: SC Tom wrote on 08/08/2015 6:36 PM: ". . .winston" wrote in message ... Ed Cryer wrote on 08/08/2015 1:45 PM: Keith wrote: The Windows 10 icon on my task bar has gone through "Reserve" to, just now "Get W10" and I get a report saying, basically,my laptop is "Good to go" and there is no Guest account in W10 (I don't use it so it's irrelevant. But, another nugget appeared: "Why did I see a notification that I won't be able to restore factory settings? You'll see this message if the manufacturer set up your PC to run from a compressed Windows image file and included an option to restore factory settings. After the upgrade, you won’t be able to restore factory settings, but other recovery options will be available." I'm running on a small Sony Vaio, no DVD and I expect that (I've had to use it once) "restore factory settings" runs from a compressed image file. Are the "other recovery options will be available." available? I do use Macrium Reflect (free) to write image files to my NAS - will they be usable after 'upgrading' to W10? I had the same when I put Win10 on my tablet. The thing that you'll appreciate is that it offers me a return to Win8.1. The removal of "factory settings" is occasioned by space limitations on the HD. It's rather like on Android phones where "factory settings" doesn't mean what it says on the can (space limitations prevents them including an image of the original set-up). After installing Win10 you have a month to restore. And the Macrium Reflect images will be utilisable. Make sure you have a Macrium restore disc. Ed After installing Win10 you have a month to restore **using the 'Go Back' Win10 included feature. After a month the 'Go Back' option will not be available since Win10 will automatically purge the files it retained for performing the 'Go Back' The inability to use the 'Go Back' feature does not preempt the ability to use other restore type methods (Recovery disks provided by the OEM or created by the user to return the device to factory condition, 3rd party imaging tool that created a backup image to external media or different drive prior to the upgrade, Windows 8.1 included Backup/Restore System Image created on external media/different drive prior to the upgrade, etc.) I think the question on that would be, if you restore from image after 30 days, will your newly restored old OS be able to be activated now that Microsoft already has that system as being upgraded to Win10? Since it hasn't been 30 days since it was released, the jury seems to still be out on that verdict :-) The sheer presence of the GoBack feature and the ability to return to the prior and activated o/s used to upgrade to 10 is the reassurance that the reverting to the prior o/s will yield an activated prior o/s....i.e. if it didn't then GoBack would not be included (Think about it g) - it's really easy to deduce. *During the 30 day period*, yes, it's really easy to deduce. ;-) But the question was, what happens after that? What happens to the qualifying license after windows.old is gone, using windows.old as the marker for the end of the 30 day period. The answer to that question isn't as easy to deduce, which is why the jury is out. We need to see the 30 day period elapse to see what happens, since Microsoft hasn't said anything meaningful on the topic. The ability to revert to a prior o/s with an activated license is statistically independent of the Win10 upgrade and the license and device footprint retained in the MSFT Store. Exactly, and since MS hasn't provided concrete guidance, we're in a wait and see mode. No jury, no wait and see mode. The 30 day only applies to the availability of the Go Back feature in Win10. After 30 days, the feature won't even be present (its also missing in a clean install) - Returning to the prior o/s with or without the Go Back feature is the same (within or after the 30 days). Go Back just provides another route due to the files saved (but later purged) on the upgraded device. -- ...winston msft mvp windows experience |
#22
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Regarding Free Windows 10 for 12 Months
Char Jackson posted this via
: *During the 30 day period*, yes, it's really easy to deduce. ;-) But the question was, what happens after that? What happens to the qualifying license after windows.old is gone, using windows.old as the marker for the end of the 30 day period. The answer to that question isn't as easy to deduce, which is why the jury is out. We need to see the 30 day period elapse to see what happens, since Microsoft hasn't said anything meaningful on the topic. The ability to revert to a prior o/s with an activated license is statistically independent of the Win10 upgrade and the license and device footprint retained in the MSFT Store. Exactly, and since MS hasn't provided concrete guidance, we're in a wait and see mode. Your Windows 8.1 was previously activated on Microsoft's servers. You upgraded to Windows 10, which was subsequently, routinely and/or ritually activated on Microsoft's servers. Now, if you imaged backupped your 8.1 first, and then you upgraded to 10, the upgrade maintained your backup imaging software (it did with mine; using AOMEI) and at some point you went ahead and imaged backupped your 10 because for right now - because you decided 10 was too cumbersome, and restored the 8.1, the 8.1 would still be "activated" - or maintain its activation credentials - so, you could catch up on any updates you've missed, etc., and get some projects done with 8.1... Now, you like 8.1 OK, but you want to keep up with Windows 10 developments, so you backup image the most recent usage of 8.1 and then restore the Win 10 image - which would remain "activated" or maintain its activation credentials, so you might catch up on 10's updates and mess with it some more... then you're still not completely content with it, so you backup image the latest 10 and restore the most recent 8.1, and catch up on its updates... On the "roll back" feature... The Windows 10 upgrade stores ~2.75GB (in my case) in a folder on your C: drive... I guess there's a built-in timer involved in this option, probably stored on your HDD. I use a backup image system which takes about 11-minutes to backup and about 17-minutes to restore. I have already used my Control Panel Administrative Tools Disk Cleanup Clean up system files (I disdain the way it has to analyze again when you push that button... in Win8/8.1/and 10) tic the Previous Windows installation(s) box and regain almost 3GB of HDD space... You'd need to keep those if you plan on using the "roll back" method... and then you'd be confined to the 30-day period... but only somewhat - because you can still upgrade for free to Win10 for the better part of the coming year using the media creation tool, and either the DVD or USB media... It's just way more cumbersome than using a a backup image method... IMO. The 30-day period is not a try-it-or-lose-it situation... It's just Microsoft's way of giving you some options should you not like Windows 10 and restoring the used HDD space back to usage... Say, they gave you 90- days... well, for 90-days they'd be occupying nearly 3GB of your HDD with roll-back files... Apparently, once the 30-days [or so] expires, your system will automatically delete those files - which I have already done manually because it seems to work for me. Berry berry gud to me. There's no cross-reference between Microsoft's Windows 8.1 activation servers and Windows 10 activation servers. As far as I can contemplate, there is no potential for abuse because if someone tried to use any of these backed up systems on another device, the Microsoft activation servers would catch them and there'd be the published consequences to pay... Unless you're Catholic... then you just goto Confession, do your assigned penance (if you bribe the priest, you can probably get by with saying a couple of Hail Marys) and it's like it never even happened and you still go to Heaven -- but, of course, you'd have to die first. HTH. -- I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; and, It's like Yogi Berra always used to say: "The future ain't what it used to be!" http://tinyurl.com/ocnqvgq |
#23
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Regarding Free Windows 10 for 12 Months
.. . .winston posted
this via : Win 8.1 will remain activated. It's statistically independent (think orthoganally) NO! YOU ARE TYPICALLY SO WRONG! The word is "orthogonally"... except in YOUR case, it's probably "orthogasmiclly" because your brain spasms are NOT the same as a sentient being's "thinking." But keep on taking your geriatric meds because if nothing else, you are supercedingly entertainful. -- I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; and, It's like Yogi Berra always used to say: "The future ain't what it used to be!" http://tinyurl.com/ocnqvgq |
#24
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Regarding Free Windows 10 for 12 Months
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 04:53:10 -0400, ". . .winston"
wrote: Char Jackson wrote on 08/09/2015 9:56 AM: Exactly, and since MS hasn't provided concrete guidance, we're in a wait and see mode. No jury, no wait and see mode. The 30 day only applies to the availability of the Go Back feature in Win10. After 30 days, the feature won't even be present (its also missing in a clean install) - Returning to the prior o/s with or without the Go Back feature is the same (within or after the 30 days). Go Back just provides another route due to the files saved (but later purged) on the upgraded device. Thanks for providing that info, but we're still in a wait and see mode to see if it works the way you described. |
#25
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Regarding Free Windows 10 for 12 Months
On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 22:52:50 -0700, mike wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong... I have win7 installed by the vendor of the PC. I have a license key that's the generic "activation not required" key shared by a zillion other devices from that vendor. I upgraded to win 10. If I go back to win7 by restoring a win7 image, how can they invalidate my key? I don't think my system would even ask??? Yes? No? ....winston says you're fine. Me? I have no idea, which is why I say wait and see what happens when others try similar things after the 30 day period ends. |
#26
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Regarding Free Windows 10 for 12 Months
Bucky Breeder wrote on 08/10/2015 11:28 AM:
. . .winston posted this via : Win 8.1 will remain activated. It's statistically independent (think orthoganally) NO! YOU ARE TYPICALLY SO WRONG! The word is "orthogonally"... except in YOUR case, it's probably "orthogasmiclly" because your brain spasms are NOT the same as a sentient being's "thinking." But keep on taking your geriatric meds because if nothing else, you are supercedingly entertainful. It's really too bad you don't have access to the Windows 10 Team to prove yourself wrong on most of the drivel you provide. -- ...winston msft mvp windows experience |
#27
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Regarding Free Windows 10 for 12 Months
FredW posted this via
: On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 17:07:55 -0400, ". . .winston" wrote: Bucky Breeder wrote on 08/10/2015 11:28 AM: . . .winston posted this via : It's statistically independent (think orthoganally) NO! YOU ARE TYPICALLY SO WRONG! The word is "orthogonally"... except in YOUR case, it's probably "orthogasmiclly" because your brain spasms are NOT the same as a sentient being's "thinking." But keep on taking your geriatric meds because if nothing else, you are supercedingly entertainful. It's really too bad you don't have access to the Windows 10 Team to prove yourself wrong on most of the drivel you provide. Talking to a troll does not help. (Bucky Breeder (in)famous from other newsgroups) ;-) Typical nym-morphing sock-puppet troll conga-line and lamer sycophants up to their same-old--lame-old geriatric stalking snip-and-snipe tricks. The reason "...winston" incorrectly used "orthoganally" for "orthogonally" is because that's a word which illustrates how *s/he* thinks; to-wit, like s/he's got a stick up h/er/is ass! BWHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! ("whines, snibbles and drools ... too bad you're not in my leetle private exclusive imaginary girl's club..." -- The Buffoon known as "...winston") Whadda maroon! Whadda stack of maroons! HTH. -- I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; and, It's like Yogi Berra always used to say: "The future ain't what it used to be!" http://tinyurl.com/odlbe3r |
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