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  #106  
Old March 21st 19, 10:39 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Commander Kinsey
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Posts: 491
Default Virus on page?

On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 00:30:49 -0000, Paul wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 23:18:32 -0000, Carlos E.R.


When it fails to display, the error is before video testing :-)


Which means the video card's ****ed.


The beep error codes, include a RAM error beep code.

This allows telling you the system RAM is bad, without
requiring anything other than that motherboard piezo.

The beep pattern is "coded", so more than one error
indication can be delivered to the user.


Yes I've used that a long time ago, but not found the need recently. Parts are more reliable than they used to be. Also if you have spare bits lying around, swapping things finds the fault.
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  #107  
Old March 21st 19, 07:05 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Chris
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Posts: 407
Default Virus on page?

Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19.56, Chris wrote:
Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 11:23:13 -0000, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 19/03/2019 00.16, Commander Kinsey wrote:.

You'd be hard pressed to develop anything worse than Adobe's Acrobat
Reader. Just try printing something from it, you won't get anything
remotely like what's on the screen. I often have to screengrab it and
print it from Paintshop Pro.

Huh? I never had any such problem printing from adobe reader reliably.

I have, I never get the size I expect. Easier to put it into a photo
editor with a screengrab, then you can fit to page etc.


Pdfs are vector formats and by definition can be scaled to any size without
losing resolution*. A pdf print dialogue box always has a "shrink to fit"
and/or "scale to page" option.

By taking a screenshot your rasterising the page and losing the benefit of
the pdf.

* Unless it had been saved as raster format. But that's dumb so not common
these days.


Wait, there are many scanners or scanner applications that save directly
as PDF. And in that case, they use bitmaps.


That's true. I was meaning pdfs you generally get online.


  #108  
Old March 21st 19, 07:17 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 407
Default Virus on page?

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 18:56:24 -0000, Chris wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 11:23:13 -0000, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 19/03/2019 00.16, Commander Kinsey wrote:.

You'd be hard pressed to develop anything worse than Adobe's Acrobat
Reader. Just try printing something from it, you won't get anything
remotely like what's on the screen. I often have to screengrab it and
print it from Paintshop Pro.

Huh? I never had any such problem printing from adobe reader reliably.

I have, I never get the size I expect. Easier to put it into a photo
editor with a screengrab, then you can fit to page etc.


Pdfs are vector formats and by definition can be scaled to any size without
losing resolution*. A pdf print dialogue box always has a "shrink to fit"
and/or "scale to page" option.

By taking a screenshot your rasterising the page and losing the benefit of
the pdf.

* Unless it had been saved as raster format. But that's dumb so not common
these days.


I think the last thing I tried to print was a calendar - I'd found a
website that generates calendars for any month and year in pdf format. I
wanted to print most of the page, cutting off the borders, but acrobat
reader was unable to, so I just screengrabbed. I got the resolution of
the monitor, which is fine.

Anything should be able to print properly. PDF doesn't help here.


Actually it does. That's the whole point of the format. It is completely
device agnostic so it doesn't matter what you're viewing it on or printing
it with it should print as the author designed it. You often see forms as
word files and they never print or render properly.


But what about how I want it?


That's not the main use case for pdfs. It's mainly a read-only format -
forms excepted.

However, you can edit them in libreoffice draw or Adobe Illustrator plus
others. Word allegedly reads them, but always makes a pig's ear of them.

  #109  
Old March 21st 19, 08:23 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Commander Kinsey
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Posts: 491
Default Virus on page?

On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 19:17:19 -0000, Chris wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 18:56:24 -0000, Chris wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 11:23:13 -0000, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 19/03/2019 00.16, Commander Kinsey wrote:.

You'd be hard pressed to develop anything worse than Adobe's Acrobat
Reader. Just try printing something from it, you won't get anything
remotely like what's on the screen. I often have to screengrab it and
print it from Paintshop Pro.

Huh? I never had any such problem printing from adobe reader reliably.

I have, I never get the size I expect. Easier to put it into a photo
editor with a screengrab, then you can fit to page etc.

Pdfs are vector formats and by definition can be scaled to any size without
losing resolution*. A pdf print dialogue box always has a "shrink to fit"
and/or "scale to page" option.

By taking a screenshot your rasterising the page and losing the benefit of
the pdf.

* Unless it had been saved as raster format. But that's dumb so not common
these days.


I think the last thing I tried to print was a calendar - I'd found a
website that generates calendars for any month and year in pdf format. I
wanted to print most of the page, cutting off the borders, but acrobat
reader was unable to, so I just screengrabbed. I got the resolution of
the monitor, which is fine.

Anything should be able to print properly. PDF doesn't help here.

Actually it does. That's the whole point of the format. It is completely
device agnostic so it doesn't matter what you're viewing it on or printing
it with it should print as the author designed it. You often see forms as
word files and they never print or render properly.


But what about how I want it?


That's not the main use case for pdfs. It's mainly a read-only format -
forms excepted.

However, you can edit them in libreoffice draw or Adobe Illustrator plus
others. Word allegedly reads them, but always makes a pig's ear of them.


Why the hell would I want something I can't adjust before printing? I might want only the top half, enlarged to fit the page, etc.
  #110  
Old March 22nd 19, 12:20 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 641
Default Virus on page?

On 21/03/2019 21.23, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 19:17:19 -0000, Chris wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 18:56:24 -0000, Chris wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 11:23:13 -0000, Carlos E.R.
wrote:

On 19/03/2019 00.16, Commander Kinsey wrote:.

You'd be hard pressed to develop anything worse than Adobe's Acrobat
Reader.* Just try printing something from it, you won't get anything
remotely like what's on the screen.* I often have to screengrab
it and
print it from Paintshop Pro.

Huh? I never had any such problem printing from adobe reader
reliably.

I have, I never get the size I expect.* Easier to put it into a photo
editor with a screengrab, then you can fit to page etc.

Pdfs are vector formats and by definition can be scaled to any size
without
losing resolution*. A pdf print dialogue box always has a "shrink to
fit"
and/or "scale to page" option.

By taking a screenshot your rasterising the page and losing the
benefit of
the pdf.

* Unless it had been saved as raster format. But that's dumb so not
common
these days.

I think the last thing I tried to print was a calendar - I'd found a
website that generates calendars for any month and year in pdf
format.* I
wanted to print most of the page, cutting off the borders, but acrobat
reader was unable to, so I just screengrabbed.* I got the resolution of
the monitor, which is fine.

Anything should be able to print properly.* PDF doesn't help here.

Actually it does. That's the whole point of the format. It is
completely
device agnostic so it doesn't matter what you're viewing it on or
printing
it with it should print as the author designed it. You often see
forms as
word files and they never print or render properly.

But what about how I want it?


That's not the main use case for pdfs. It's mainly a read-only format -
forms excepted.

However, you can edit them in libreoffice draw or Adobe Illustrator plus
others. Word allegedly reads them, but always makes a pig's ear of them.


Why the hell would I want something I can't adjust before printing?* I
might want only the top half, enlarged to fit the page, etc.


But PDFs are not designed for you to alter at will. They are designed to
be printed as is, just expanded or shrinked to page.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #111  
Old March 22nd 19, 12:28 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 641
Default Virus on page?

On 21/03/2019 20.05, Chris wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19.56, Chris wrote:
Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 11:23:13 -0000, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 19/03/2019 00.16, Commander Kinsey wrote:.

You'd be hard pressed to develop anything worse than Adobe's Acrobat
Reader. Just try printing something from it, you won't get anything
remotely like what's on the screen. I often have to screengrab it and
print it from Paintshop Pro.

Huh? I never had any such problem printing from adobe reader reliably.

I have, I never get the size I expect. Easier to put it into a photo
editor with a screengrab, then you can fit to page etc.

Pdfs are vector formats and by definition can be scaled to any size without
losing resolution*. A pdf print dialogue box always has a "shrink to fit"
and/or "scale to page" option.

By taking a screenshot your rasterising the page and losing the benefit of
the pdf.

* Unless it had been saved as raster format. But that's dumb so not common
these days.


Wait, there are many scanners or scanner applications that save directly
as PDF. And in that case, they use bitmaps.


That's true. I was meaning pdfs you generally get online.


Well...

I'm in Electronics. Long time ago, we had to purchase electronic
component (like chips) catalogue books, printed in thin paper. Difficult
to find and expensive, at least in my part of the world.

Then came Internet.

Suddenly we had free access to those catalogs, in PDF form, made from
scanning the paper books, in relatively low resolution (some times
almost unreadable), raster format. Horrible things, difficult to scan
(visually) to search for something.

The PDFs were not generated from source, they were scanned material. It
took years till we got real electronic format catalogs, PDFs or html,
that we could run a text search to find what we needed.


Just mentioning online PDFs with bitmap content... :-D


--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #112  
Old March 22nd 19, 01:34 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,319
Default Virus on page?

In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote:

That's not the main use case for pdfs. It's mainly a read-only format -
forms excepted.

However, you can edit them in libreoffice draw or Adobe Illustrator plus
others. Word allegedly reads them, but always makes a pig's ear of them.


Why the hell would I want something I can't adjust before printing?* I
might want only the top half, enlarged to fit the page, etc.


But PDFs are not designed for you to alter at will. They are designed to
be printed as is, just expanded or shrinked to page.


that depends on the pdf. some can be read-only, some can be editable,
some editable only in designated places (i.e., forms), some cannot be
printed and/or exported and some can have a password.
  #113  
Old March 22nd 19, 01:47 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,553
Default Virus on page?

"Commander Kinsey" wrote

| Why the hell would I want something I can't adjust before printing? I
might want only the top half, enlarged to fit the page, etc.
|

I think it's worth remembering that PDF is basically
a commercial format. It has two main purposes.

1) To print accurately.

2) To provide a relatively immutable document vehicle
for business/commercial/government.

In other words, it's not supposed to let you adjust
it. That's the whole point. That's also why it's such a
horrendous format for actually reading content or
doing much of anything other than printing.

But for official people who want to exchange official
documents, PDF allows them at least a functional
level of immutability. HTML, by contrast, is a sort of
peoples' format. It's fairly easy to learn. There are
free editors. And it's very easy to edit. But if someone
wants to send you a contract or other legal paper,
HTML feels wishy washy. PDF feels like a lockbox with
a piece of paper inside.

Personally, if I want to save something that's mainly
text I save DOC, DOCX, HTML and PDF as TXT. There's
nothing easier to read on a computer screen. Sometimes
with a complex file sporting headers, sections, etc I'll
save it as simplified HTML.

I have Paint Shop Pro 5, which has a decent help file
in HLP format. When I bought PSP 16 the help system was
broken. I had to set it up myself. (Corel wanted me to go
online for help!) I ended up with 2 kinds of help. One is
a PDF. The other is an installable mess that's supposed to
open in a browser. It's a massive hierarchy of folders with
webpages. Worse, the links are messed up, so it doesn't
open from inside the program. One of these days I'll make
a CHM out of it all, but I don't understand why Corel didn't
provide a CHM in the first place and link it from the menu.
CHM is basically an HTML book with index, search and
contents. It's far superior to PDF and it's the standard
Windows help format.

There seem to be two reasons for Corel making such a
mess of things. One is that they want me going to their
website to see ads for new stuff. But the other seems to
be a close-minded overvaluation of PDF that's developed
among people who sit at desks all day.


  #114  
Old March 22nd 19, 02:14 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,319
Default Virus on page?

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

I think it's worth remembering that PDF is basically
a commercial format. It has two main purposes.

1) To print accurately.

2) To provide a relatively immutable document vehicle
for business/commercial/government.


it's much more than just that.

In other words, it's not supposed to let you adjust
it. That's the whole point. That's also why it's such a
horrendous format for actually reading content or
doing much of anything other than printing.


nonsense. pdf is ideal for reading content, which is why many, many
ebooks are distributed in pdf (as well as epub), without the need to
print anything.

But for official people who want to exchange official
documents, PDF allows them at least a functional
level of immutability. HTML, by contrast, is a sort of
peoples' format. It's fairly easy to learn. There are
free editors. And it's very easy to edit. But if someone
wants to send you a contract or other legal paper,
HTML feels wishy washy. PDF feels like a lockbox with
a piece of paper inside.


a contract by its very nature *must* be read-only. being able to edit
it after the fact would be bad.

and as i said, there's much more to pdf than just that.
  #115  
Old March 22nd 19, 04:51 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Commander Kinsey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 491
Default Virus on page?

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 13:47:16 -0000, Mayayana wrote:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote

| Why the hell would I want something I can't adjust before printing? I
might want only the top half, enlarged to fit the page, etc.
|

I think it's worth remembering that PDF is basically
a commercial format. It has two main purposes.

1) To print accurately.

2) To provide a relatively immutable document vehicle
for business/commercial/government.

In other words, it's not supposed to let you adjust
it. That's the whole point. That's also why it's such a
horrendous format for actually reading content or
doing much of anything other than printing.


So damn useless then. The number of times I was asked (when working as IT support) for a way to simply edit a PDF slightly. Somebody wanted to change a few words, omit a section etc. Also my neighbour recently (as a landlord) wanted to edit a Council made document to make it suitable for renting a flat. Almost bloody impossible. That was the whole point of the document, to use as a template!

But for official people who want to exchange official
documents, PDF allows them at least a functional
level of immutability. HTML, by contrast, is a sort of
peoples' format. It's fairly easy to learn. There are
free editors. And it's very easy to edit. But if someone
wants to send you a contract or other legal paper,
HTML feels wishy washy. PDF feels like a lockbox with
a piece of paper inside.

Personally, if I want to save something that's mainly
text I save DOC, DOCX, HTML and PDF as TXT. There's
nothing easier to read on a computer screen. Sometimes
with a complex file sporting headers, sections, etc I'll
save it as simplified HTML.

I have Paint Shop Pro 5, which has a decent help file
in HLP format. When I bought PSP 16 the help system was
broken. I had to set it up myself. (Corel wanted me to go
online for help!) I ended up with 2 kinds of help. One is
a PDF. The other is an installable mess that's supposed to
open in a browser. It's a massive hierarchy of folders with
webpages. Worse, the links are messed up, so it doesn't
open from inside the program. One of these days I'll make
a CHM out of it all, but I don't understand why Corel didn't
provide a CHM in the first place and link it from the menu.
CHM is basically an HTML book with index, search and
contents. It's far superior to PDF and it's the standard
Windows help format.


I never use the help system in programs, I just Google. I've used Paintshop Pro 7 since about 1998, I declined to upgrade to 8 because it was far too complicated to use. I recently lost the program and had to download (er buy?) another one. I happened to find version 2018, which works fine.

There seem to be two reasons for Corel making such a
mess of things. One is that they want me going to their
website to see ads for new stuff. But the other seems to
be a close-minded overvaluation of PDF that's developed
among people who sit at desks all day.

  #116  
Old March 22nd 19, 04:52 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Commander Kinsey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 491
Default Virus on page?

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 12:20:49 -0000, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 21/03/2019 21.23, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 19:17:19 -0000, Chris wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 18:56:24 -0000, Chris wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 11:23:13 -0000, Carlos E.R.
wrote:

On 19/03/2019 00.16, Commander Kinsey wrote:.

You'd be hard pressed to develop anything worse than Adobe's Acrobat
Reader. Just try printing something from it, you won't get anything
remotely like what's on the screen. I often have to screengrab
it and
print it from Paintshop Pro.

Huh? I never had any such problem printing from adobe reader
reliably.

I have, I never get the size I expect. Easier to put it into a photo
editor with a screengrab, then you can fit to page etc.

Pdfs are vector formats and by definition can be scaled to any size
without
losing resolution*. A pdf print dialogue box always has a "shrink to
fit"
and/or "scale to page" option.

By taking a screenshot your rasterising the page and losing the
benefit of
the pdf.

* Unless it had been saved as raster format. But that's dumb so not
common
these days.

I think the last thing I tried to print was a calendar - I'd found a
website that generates calendars for any month and year in pdf
format. I
wanted to print most of the page, cutting off the borders, but acrobat
reader was unable to, so I just screengrabbed. I got the resolution of
the monitor, which is fine.

Anything should be able to print properly. PDF doesn't help here.

Actually it does. That's the whole point of the format. It is
completely
device agnostic so it doesn't matter what you're viewing it on or
printing
it with it should print as the author designed it. You often see
forms as
word files and they never print or render properly.

But what about how I want it?

That's not the main use case for pdfs. It's mainly a read-only format -
forms excepted.

However, you can edit them in libreoffice draw or Adobe Illustrator plus
others. Word allegedly reads them, but always makes a pig's ear of them.


Why the hell would I want something I can't adjust before printing? I
might want only the top half, enlarged to fit the page, etc.


But PDFs are not designed for you to alter at will. They are designed to
be printed as is, just expanded or shrinked to page.


Why design something you can't use properly? Not everyone wants things exactly the same.
  #117  
Old March 22nd 19, 04:54 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Commander Kinsey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 491
Default Virus on page?

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 12:28:56 -0000, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 21/03/2019 20.05, Chris wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19.56, Chris wrote:
Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 11:23:13 -0000, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 19/03/2019 00.16, Commander Kinsey wrote:.

You'd be hard pressed to develop anything worse than Adobe's Acrobat
Reader. Just try printing something from it, you won't get anything
remotely like what's on the screen. I often have to screengrab it and
print it from Paintshop Pro.

Huh? I never had any such problem printing from adobe reader reliably.

I have, I never get the size I expect. Easier to put it into a photo
editor with a screengrab, then you can fit to page etc.

Pdfs are vector formats and by definition can be scaled to any size without
losing resolution*. A pdf print dialogue box always has a "shrink to fit"
and/or "scale to page" option.

By taking a screenshot your rasterising the page and losing the benefit of
the pdf.

* Unless it had been saved as raster format. But that's dumb so not common
these days.

Wait, there are many scanners or scanner applications that save directly
as PDF. And in that case, they use bitmaps.


That's true. I was meaning pdfs you generally get online.


Well...

I'm in Electronics. Long time ago, we had to purchase electronic
component (like chips) catalogue books, printed in thin paper. Difficult
to find and expensive, at least in my part of the world.


What part of the world? In the UK we used things like RS components. Huge catalogues with everything in them. They were free if you bought from them regularly. Mind you I often went to a cheaper supplier unless it was something very rare.

Then came Internet.

Suddenly we had free access to those catalogs, in PDF form, made from
scanning the paper books, in relatively low resolution (some times
almost unreadable), raster format. Horrible things, difficult to scan
(visually) to search for something.

The PDFs were not generated from source, they were scanned material. It
took years till we got real electronic format catalogs, PDFs or html,
that we could run a text search to find what we needed.


Just mentioning online PDFs with bitmap content... :-D

  #118  
Old March 22nd 19, 05:19 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
David in Devon
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Posts: 76
Default Virus on page?

On 22/03/2019 16:54, Commander Kinsey wrote:
What part of the world?


..es, the top-level Internet domain for Spain

HTH :-)

--
David B.
Devon, UK
  #119  
Old March 22nd 19, 05:24 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,553
Default Virus on page?

"Commander Kinsey" wrote

| So damn useless then. The number of times I was asked (when working as IT
support) for a way to simply edit a PDF slightly. Somebody wanted to change
a few words, omit a section etc. Also my neighbour recently (as a landlord)
wanted to edit a Council made document to make it suitable for renting a
flat. Almost bloody impossible. That was the whole point of the document,
to use as a template!
|

Certainly not a good template format. I use PDFs for
business estimates and receipts, but I always write it in
Libre Office as a doc. The PDF is only for sending to
the customer.


  #120  
Old March 22nd 19, 05:34 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Commander Kinsey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 491
Default Virus on page?

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 17:19:22 -0000, David in Devon wrote:

On 22/03/2019 16:54, Commander Kinsey wrote:
What part of the world?


.es, the top-level Internet domain for Spain

HTH :-)


Well mine says I'm in Japan.
 




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