keyboard funny - loss of ")" character

This minor manifestation of my keyboard problems is particularly
puzzling. Whether it's connected with the other funnies, I don't know:
it doesn't seem to be correlated!

This one manifests as an inability to type the character ) [close round
bracket]. On my keyboard layout, it is the shifted 0 (zero) character.
[UK layout - though I think that's where it is on lots of others, such
as the default (US) one.] It is not a hardware fault: I can type a zero,
and I can use the shift keys with any other key where doing so produces
a different character (I think that's all keys).

I don't know what (if anything specific) starts it (the fault is always
absent after a reboot); I also don't know what stops it - after a while,
though it _may_ well be something I do rather than just random, I find I
can type ) again. I can paste a ) no problem [my signature contains at
least one, so finding one to copy's no problem), but obviously that's
tedious.

Has anyone else experienced this weird one? (Does anyone know what its
cause is?)

JPG
---


Fair petitions? See 255soft.uk; #fairpetitions @jpeg_G6;
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--
4-way STV referendum: no deal, Barnier deal (NI stays), May deal, or remain?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Astaire was, of course, peerless, but it's worth remembering that Rogers does
everything he does, only backwards and in high heels. - Barry Norman in Radio
Times 5-11 January 2013

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

|
| Has anyone else experienced this weird one? (Does anyone know what its
| cause is?)
|

What happened with checking for faulty hooks? You
ruled that out? If it really works as you say then it
would seem that would have to be a Windows problem.

But you also didn't mention what software you've
tested. If it's not the keyboard then it could be the
program. Any program you type into has access to the
Windows keyboard messages and its own GUI. So, for
instance, a program can do things like auto-capitalize
as you type. It would do that by checking the keycode
and shift status. It sounds like you haven't considered
the software used.

If it's not those things then there aren't many options
left. Maybe, possibly, a corrupted codepage? I don't know
if that is actually possible or how to check for it.

I'm still not convinced it's not some kind of hook,
possibly malware. That seems to be the only possibility
that fits with the fact that a reboot fixes the problem.
And didn't you say before that you were using at least
two specialty programs that hook the keyboard? I don't
remember you ever reporting any systematic test of
all those factors -- the specialty programs and the window
you're typing into -- to see whether the problem is
independent of all software.

In message , Mayayana
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

|
| Has anyone else experienced this weird one? (Does anyone know what its
| cause is?)
|

What happened with checking for faulty hooks? You
ruled that out? If it really works as you say then it
would seem that would have to be a Windows problem.

I'm afraid I must admit I felt that was beyond me.

But you also didn't mention what software you've
tested. If it's not the keyboard then it could be the
program. Any program you type into has access to the
Windows keyboard messages and its own GUI. So, for
instance, a program can do things like auto-capitalize
as you type. It would do that by checking the keycode
and shift status. It sounds like you haven't considered
the software used.

The loss of the ability to type a ")" * applies in all software I'm
using: my email/news client, Notepad+, or my browsers.

*: it just came back there! I went to type that ")", using shift-zero as
my muscle memory does, then I realised it had worked!

If it's not those things then there aren't many options
left. Maybe, possibly, a corrupted codepage? I don't know
if that is actually possible or how to check for it.

I can't see how that would come and go, though.

I'm still not convinced it's not some kind of hook,
possibly malware. That seems to be the only possibility
that fits with the fact that a reboot fixes the problem.
And didn't you say before that you were using at least
two specialty programs that hook the keyboard? I don't
remember you ever reporting any systematic test of
all those factors -- the specialty programs and the window
you're typing into -- to see whether the problem is
independent of all software.

AllChars seems the most obvious candidate, but when my keyboard funnies
- either the inability to type ")", or the more serious apparent stuck
shift key - I have tried stopping AllChars (it's tray icon has Exit in
its menu), and the fault doesn't go away. Equally, I have AllChars set
to run from start (at boot), but the funnies do not appear from boot
(though AllChars is working). The only other intercepting s/w I can
think of is Leeos's noisy keyboard - same lack of correlation with the
errors.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Grief generates a huge energy in you and it's better for everybody if you
harness it to do something. - Judi Dench, RT 2015/2/28-3/6

On 13/03/2019 15:42, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Mayayana
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

|
| Has anyone else experienced this weird one? (Does anyone know what its
| cause is?)
|

Â*What happened with checking for faulty hooks? You
ruled that out? If it really works as you say then it
would seem that would have to be a Windows problem.

I'm afraid I must admit I felt that was beyond me.

Â* But you also didn't mention what software you've
tested. If it's not the keyboard then it could be the
program. Any program you type into has access to the
Windows keyboard messages and its own GUI. So, for
instance, a program can do things like auto-capitalize
as you type. It would do that by checking the keycode
and shift status. It sounds like you haven't considered
the software used.

The loss of the ability to type a ")" * applies in all software I'm
using: my email/news client, Notepad+, or my browsers.

*: it just came back there! I went to type that ")", using shift-zero as
my muscle memory does, then I realised it had worked!

Â* If it's not those things then there aren't many options
left. Maybe, possibly, a corrupted codepage? I don't know
if that is actually possible or how to check for it.

I can't see how that would come and go, though.

Â*I'm still not convinced it's not some kind of hook,
possibly malware. That seems to be the only possibility
that fits with the fact that a reboot fixes the problem.
And didn't you say before that you were using at least
two specialty programs that hook the keyboard? I don't
remember you ever reporting any systematic test of
all those factors -- the specialty programs and the window
you're typing into -- to see whether the problem is
independent of all software.

Yes, malware had occurred to me as well.

AllChars seems the most obvious candidate, but when my keyboard funnies
- either the inability to type ")", or the more serious apparent stuck
shift key - I have tried stopping AllChars (it's tray icon has Exit in
its menu), and the fault doesn't go away. Equally, I have AllChars set
to run from start (at boot), but the funnies do not appear from boot
(though AllChars is working). The only other intercepting s/w I can
think of is Leeos's noisy keyboard - same lack of correlation with the
errors.

So what happens if you try disabling* both of those and then rebooting?

* Presumably each is launched in one of several possible ways:
Startup folder, either your own or 'All users'
Temporarily move it elsewhere.
HKCU/Software/Microsoft/Windows/Current Version/Run
HKLM/Software/Microsoft/Windows/Current Version/Run
Export the registry key into a file
Delete the registry entry
Reboot
Later you can import the registy file to reinstate it.
A service
Disable it, either in the services mmc console, or
in the boot options configuration dialog.

In message , Java Jive
writes:
On 13/03/2019 15:42, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
[]
AllChars seems the most obvious candidate, but when my keyboard
funnies - either the inability to type ")", or the more serious
apparent stuck shift key - I have tried stopping AllChars (it's tray
icon has Exit in its menu), and the fault doesn't go away. Equally, I
have AllChars set to run from start (at boot), but the funnies do not
appear from boot (though AllChars is working). The only other
intercepting s/w I can think of is Leeos's noisy keyboard - same lack
of correlation with the errors.

So what happens if you try disabling* both of those and then rebooting?
[]
Trouble is, I wouldn't know if that had cured the problem(s), as I don't
know what triggers them. I would have to run for quite a long time to be
sure (well, fairly sure) that the problems were not going to occur:
certainly many days, possibly a week or two. The faults are not common.
Also, when they do occur, terminating those two - even with extreme
prejudice (-:! - _doesn't_ cure the problems when they _do_ occur.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Dook, that was great but I think the line needs
awe. Can you do it again, giving it just a little awe?"

"Sure, George," said Wayne and looking up at the cross said:
"Aw, truly this man is the son of God."
(recounted in Radio Times, 30 March-5 April 2013.)

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

| What happened with checking for faulty hooks? You
| ruled that out? If it really works as you say then it
| would seem that would have to be a Windows problem.
|
| I'm afraid I must admit I felt that was beyond me.

I was thinking the same as Java Jive. Try disabling any
keyboard funny business from boot and see what that
does.
To check for malware you could try the usual: AV,
rootkit hunters, etc. Then maybe look at process explorer
and inspect all runing services. You could have a malware
service, or you could have a legitimate service that's
faulty.

Example: Say you have a tool that italicizes parenthetical
text as you write. That program could be written to watch
for keycode 48 + shift and do it's thing at that point. If
the code was faulty it might have a bug that could do
something like stop letting the message through by
mistake after the first catch. That's an easy bug to produce.

If it happens in all software then that indicates it's
systemwide, again pointing to some kind of keyboard hook.
And since it starts unpredictably and clears at startup,
that's another clue indicating it might be some kind of
faulty code that screws things up once it runs. To use
the example above, your tool watches for 48 + Shift but
then the programmer forgot to pass the message along
once it's been dealt with in that tool. In other words, a
bug in a keyboard hook could "eat" keyboard messages
in an unpredictable manner. It could even return the ability.

When you talked about this last time I looked up hooks
but didn't find anything that seemed to be a way to
list active hooks. Windows apparently doesn't keep a
publicly accessible listing. So you just have to narrow it
down by looking at running processes that could be
hooking the keyboard.

In message , Mayayana
writes:
[]
If it happens in all software then that indicates it's
systemwide, again pointing to some kind of keyboard hook.
And since it starts unpredictably and clears at startup,
that's another clue indicating it might be some kind of
faulty code that screws things up once it runs. To use
the example above, your tool watches for 48 + Shift but
then the programmer forgot to pass the message along
once it's been dealt with in that tool. In other words, a
bug in a keyboard hook could "eat" keyboard messages
in an unpredictable manner. It could even return the ability.

The two softwares: AllChars looks for a press and release of the Ctrl
key. But turning it off doesn't clear the fault once it has started.
Noisy Keyboard looks for _all_ keys - and continues to work when the
fault has started. (And, once again, doesn't cause the fault to stop if
I terminate it.)

When you talked about this last time I looked up hooks
but didn't find anything that seemed to be a way to
list active hooks. Windows apparently doesn't keep a
publicly accessible listing. So you just have to narrow it
down by looking at running processes that could be
hooking the keyboard.

I'll live with them for now: even if it does turn out to be those
softwares, I find their usefulness outweighs the inconvenience.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Dook, that was great but I think the line needs
awe. Can you do it again, giving it just a little awe?"

"Sure, George," said Wayne and looking up at the cross said:
"Aw, truly this man is the son of God."
(recounted in Radio Times, 30 March-5 April 2013.)

On 3/13/2019 3:02 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
This minor manifestation of my keyboard problems is particularly
puzzling. Whether it's connected with the other funnies, I don't know:
it doesn't seem to be correlated!

This one manifests as an inability to type the character ) [close round
bracket]. On my keyboard layout, it is the shifted 0 (zero) character.
[UK layout - though I think that's where it is on lots of others, such
as the default (US) one.] It is not a hardware fault: I can type a zero,
and I can use the shift keys with any other key where doing so produces
a different character (I think that's all keys).

I don't know what (if anything specific) starts it (the fault is always
absent after a reboot); I also don't know what stops it - after a while,
though it _may_ well be something I do rather than just random, I find I
can type ) again. I can paste a ) no problem [my signature contains at
least one, so finding one to copy's no problem), but obviously that's
tedious.

Has anyone else experienced this weird one? (Does anyone know what its
cause is?)

JPG
---


Fair petitions? See 255soft.uk; #fairpetitions @jpeg_G6;
https://petition.parliament.uk/petit...Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* (UK only)
--
4-way STV referendum: no deal, Barnier deal (NI stays), May deal, or
remain?
I have a similar problem with
Windows 10.
Every few days on total commander,
I can bring up a right-click context menu, but I can't select anything
with the left click. Outside the context menu, left click works fine.
Restarting total commander fixes it.
I've seen similar problems on other apps, but it's so infrequent that
I can't diagnose it.

I've had a few instances where the keyboard fails to wake from sleep.
My keyboard and mice are all logitech wireless. That may factor in.

Methinks there's something loose in the keyboard/mouse interface that
falls off occasionally.

I tried HxD hex editor and it prints the keycode for keystrokes.

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

This minor manifestation of my keyboard problems is particularly
puzzling. Whether it's connected with the other funnies, I don't know:
it doesn't seem to be correlated!

This one manifests as an inability to type the character ) [close round
bracket]. On my keyboard layout, it is the shifted 0 (zero) character.
[UK layout - though I think that's where it is on lots of others, such
as the default (US) one.] It is not a hardware fault: I can type a zero,
and I can use the shift keys with any other key where doing so produces
a different character (I think that's all keys).

I don't know what (if anything specific) starts it (the fault is always
absent after a reboot); I also don't know what stops it - after a while,
though it _may_ well be something I do rather than just random, I find I
can type ) again. I can paste a ) no problem [my signature contains at
least one, so finding one to copy's no problem), but obviously that's
tedious.

Has anyone else experienced this weird one? (Does anyone know what its
cause is?)

JPG
---

Fair petitions? See 255s*ft. uk; #fairpetitions @jpeg_G6;
https:// petiti*n. parliament. uk/ petitions/ 232770 (UK only)
(Spam URLs munged to prevent them being clickable.)

Same happen when you move the keyboard to a different computer?

BTW, dash dash dash newline is not a valid signature delimiter line
(which is dash dash space newline). Your *real* signature ("4-way ...
or remain?") has only one right parenthesis.

In message , VanguardLH
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
[]
Has anyone else experienced this weird one? (Does anyone know what its
cause is?)

JPG
---

Fair petitions? See 255s*ft. uk; #fairpetitions @jpeg_G6;
https:// petiti*n. parliament. uk/ petitions/ 232770 (UK only)
(Spam URLs munged to prevent them being clickable.)

Oops - I meant to delete that for international 'groups.

Same happen when you move the keyboard to a different computer?

Laptop.

BTW, dash dash dash newline is not a valid signature delimiter line

Yes, as I said, I usually intend to delete that for international
audiences (and for UK ones except the first post each day in each
newsgroup).

(which is dash dash space newline). Your *real* signature ("4-way ...
or remain?") has only one right parenthesis.

My _real_ .sig is the one beginning with my name; the 4-way one is
preceded by dash dash with no space.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Religion is a name for opinion that cannot be argued about. [Heard on Radio 4,
2010-10-18, 9:xx.]

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 02:45:41 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , VanguardLH
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
[]
Has anyone else experienced this weird one? (Does anyone know what its
cause is?)

JPG
---

Fair petitions? See 255s*ft. uk; #fairpetitions @jpeg_G6;
https:// petiti*n. parliament. uk/ petitions/ 232770 (UK only)
(Spam URLs munged to prevent them being clickable.)

Oops - I meant to delete that for international 'groups.

Same happen when you move the keyboard to a different computer?

Laptop.

You've probably answered this already, but does the same thing happen
when you use a different keyboard *in addition to* the laptop keyboard?

As you probably know, you can simply plug in a second keyboard in the
same way that you can plug in a second mouse. Both keyboards will be
active at the same time, so you can type on either one. When you
encounter the issue with the laptop keyboard, reach over and type on the
other keyboard. If you don't have the issue with that keyboard, it could
be your laptop keyboard that's failing.

I think you talked about the built-in On-Screen Keyboard earlier, but I
don't remember. A second external keyboard might be a better test.

Apologies if you've already been there and done that.

--

Char Jackson

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 02:45:41 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , VanguardLH
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
[]
Has anyone else experienced this weird one? (Does anyone know what its
cause is?)
[]
Same happen when you move the keyboard to a different computer?

Laptop.

You've probably answered this already, but does the same thing happen

I have, but no matter ...

when you use a different keyboard *in addition to* the laptop keyboard?

.... yes, it does. Well, the more major fault anyway - the apparent
sticking of shift, control, or other such keys; not sure about the loss
of ).
[]
I think you talked about the built-in On-Screen Keyboard earlier, but I
don't remember. A second external keyboard might be a better test.

I did, and the faults - when they've been triggered - appear even on
there too [I _think_ even including the no-) fault]. _Sometimes_, when I
unminimise the OSK, it comes up with its control keys shaded (and
clicking them on it frees things), but usually not. I keep the OSK
minimised because sometimes I _can_ clear the fault(s) using it, and
once the fault _has_ triggered, attempting to _start_ the OSK has no
effect.

Apologies if you've already been there and done that.

No problem.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Never raise your hand to your children. It leaves your mid-section unprotected

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

VanguardLH WROTE:

Same happen when you move the keyboard to a different computer?

Laptop.

Laptops don't have room for a number pad, so they overlay the numpad
keys atop the alphanumeric keys at the right end. Look at:

https://www.replacementlaptopkeys.co...yboard_key.jpg
(click to enlarge)

Notice the 0 (zero) key at the top row has 3 characters possible: 0
(zero), right parens, and / (divide). I don't remember how it is done
but there is some way to turn on the numpad characters for those keys.
However, if that were the case, I would think you would get / (slash)
for each press on Shift+0 that doesn't appear to do anything. I would
find out what toggles the numpad and toggle it a couple times and then
once more, if needed, to turn off the numpad to make sure the toggle
state didn't get confused for those keys.

Have you yet cold booted the laptop? I don't mean shutdown into
low-power or hibernate mode but completely powered off. For a cold
boot, the CPU sends a reset signal to all hardware to make sure it
starts in a known state. I've had hardware that got confused to what
state it should be, and a cold boot gave it the reset to start at a
known initial state.

Do you have Sticky Keys enabled in Windows? You may not have
deliberately enable it but did so accidentally. Pressing Shift 5 times
in rapid succession will turn on Stick Keys. I've done that a couple
time when ****ed at something and ended up hitting the Shift more than 5
times and wondering what that beep was for.

You press Shift+0 but don't get a right parenthesis character. The
question is if there is a hardware fault where the keypress is not
registered; i.e., no scan code for the keypress is sent. The other
possibility is that some software has usurped that key combo. Keyboards
generate 2 scan codes per keypress: keydown and keyup. That way,
software can see if you pressed a key or released it. It has too long
since I used a key scan code tool to remember what I've used. I
remember running it and then I'd press and hold down a key to see what
the tool said was that scan code. Then I'd release the key to see what
different scan code got generated for that action. I wasn't using it to
find missing scan codes but to define some key remapping. Keyboard
keyboard remapping software is also a possibility for the missing scan
code for downpress+0 issuing the scan code for that key combo.

I'd first boot Windows into its safe mode to see the problem still
exists. If so, I'd try a keyboard scan code reporting tool that showed
me both downpress and release of keys for their scan codes.

In message , VanguardLH
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

VanguardLH WROTE:

Same happen when you move the keyboard to a different computer?

Laptop.

Laptops don't have room for a number pad, so they overlay the numpad
keys atop the alphanumeric keys at the right end. Look at:

https://www.replacementlaptopkeys.co...s/sony_vpcx_la
ptop_keyboard_key.jpg
(click to enlarge)

Notice the 0 (zero) key at the top row has 3 characters possible: 0
(zero), right parens, and / (divide). I don't remember how it is done
but there is some way to turn on the numpad characters for those keys.

I _think_ it varies between laptops. On this one, it's Fn+F11, called
"Numeric Overlay". I _have_ very occasionally fallen foul of it (i. e.
turned it on by mistake), but (once I'd learned about it!), its symptoms
are quite obvious - more the letter keys UIOJKLM don't produce their
normal letters, than just the 0/) key. Good thinking, though!

However, if that were the case, I would think you would get / (slash)
for each press on Shift+0 that doesn't appear to do anything. I would
find out what toggles the numpad and toggle it a couple times and then
once more, if needed, to turn off the numpad to make sure the toggle
state didn't get confused for those keys.

I'm afraid that's not it.

Have you yet cold booted the laptop? I don't mean shutdown into
low-power or hibernate mode but completely powered off. For a cold
boot, the CPU sends a reset signal to all hardware to make sure it
starts in a known state. I've had hardware that got confused to what
state it should be, and a cold boot gave it the reset to start at a
known initial state.

Yes - since this started, some months ago, I've had several of all sorts
of powerdown - low-power, controlled shutdown, and uncontrolled shutdown
(running on battery and not realising). [I don't _think_ I've had a
_crash_ as such - I'm pretty sure I've never had a BSOD - though if the
fault is in one of its more aggressive modes, actually triggering a
shutdown can be hard work. But I can usually get there with the mouse
(trackpad).]

Do you have Sticky Keys enabled in Windows? You may not have
deliberately enable it but did so accidentally. Pressing Shift 5 times
in rapid succession will turn on Stick Keys. I've done that a couple
time when ****ed at something and ended up hitting the Shift more than 5
times and wondering what that beep was for.

No. Sometimes I do the same, but I have it set to pop up an ask. (I do
have the thing that beeps when I change the lock [mainly so I know if I
hit caps lock by mistake], but that doesn't change anything, it's only a
beep. [May be called "toggle keys" - it was under XP - which is a
misleading name for it.])

You press Shift+0 but don't get a right parenthesis character. The
question is if there is a hardware fault where the keypress is not
registered; i.e., no scan code for the keypress is sent. The other
possibility is that some software has usurped that key combo. Keyboards
generate 2 scan codes per keypress: keydown and keyup. That way,
software can see if you pressed a key or released it. It has too long
since I used a key scan code tool to remember what I've used. I
remember running it and then I'd press and hold down a key to see what
the tool said was that scan code. Then I'd release the key to see what
different scan code got generated for that action. I wasn't using it to
find missing scan codes but to define some key remapping. Keyboard
keyboard remapping software is also a possibility for the missing scan
code for downpress+0 issuing the scan code for that key combo.

I've just got one - when I saw there was a NirSoft one, I got that
(https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/keyboard_state_view.html) as I find his
utils excellent. (I was a little surprised to find I didn't already have
it as part of his suite; maybe it is too new.) I have looked at what it
shows when I type shift and 0 now, and will try again next time I get
_that_ fault. Thanks for the suggestion.

I'd first boot Windows into its safe mode to see the problem still
exists. If so, I'd try a keyboard scan code reporting tool that showed
me both downpress and release of keys for their scan codes.

Trouble is, I'd have to run in safe mode for a long time to see if the
problem exists, as it often doesn't show up for ages.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Never raise your hand to your children. It leaves your mid-section unprotected

You said the problem started several months ago. Did you do any cleanup
back then, like getting rid of programs for processes you thought
weren't necessary or as part of a cleanup to get rid of fluffware from
wasting memory and CPU cycles? I did that on a Dell a long time ago. I
found processes for programs that seemed superfluous. I didn't need nor
want all the fluff features that Dell shoved into their laptops, so I
either uninstall those programs or manually cleaned them out. Turned
out that what looked like a fluff featured keyboard program turned out
to also be a dynamic driver (loads on demand instead of during Windows
boot) and as a startup entry that I thought was superfluous. After
removing uninstalling the program, some features of the keyboard were no
longer available (too long for me to remember what got removed). Alas,
Dell with their provided install media required I'd install their suite
program of lots of fluffware just to get back that one keyboard program.
I managed to find the right download from their site for just that
keyboard program, installed it, and got full functionality of the
keyboard.