Computer Freeze!

I am, and have been for some time, running XP SP3. Have had no
trouble until now. It is on a M3A78_CM mobo with a AMD Phenom 9950
Quad cpu and 4GB DDR2.

I find that it freezes up after being on sometimes an hour, sometimes
longer, requiring re-powering up. I have tried the RAM one at a time,
and I have changed hard drives. Same result.

So I figure it is the CPU or MOBO.

Anyone have a thought on this?

Thanks

Duke

Could be.......

However, the most common cause of Window's PC "freezing up", by far and
away, is a software conflict....

Hardware conflicts usually result in the PC freezing very soon after start
or being unable to start at all!!

Check any recently installed software.

Pay particular attention to exactly WHAT was going on / you were doing,
when the "freeze" occurred.

On reboot, take a look in the Event Log for any additional clues.

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)




wrote in message
...
I am, and have been for some time, running XP SP3. Have had no
trouble until now. It is on a M3A78_CM mobo with a AMD Phenom 9950
Quad cpu and 4GB DDR2.

I find that it freezes up after being on sometimes an hour, sometimes
longer, requiring re-powering up. I have tried the RAM one at a time,
and I have changed hard drives. Same result.

So I figure it is the CPU or MOBO.

Anyone have a thought on this?

Thanks

Duke

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 04:07:23 -0000, "Tim Meddick"
wrote:

Could be.......

However, the most common cause of Window's PC "freezing up", by far and
away, is a software conflict....

Hardware conflicts usually result in the PC freezing very soon after start
or being unable to start at all!!

Check any recently installed software.

Pay particular attention to exactly WHAT was going on / you were doing,
when the "freeze" occurred.

On reboot, take a look in the Event Log for any additional clues.

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)


Thanks Tim

I thought that too. But I have dual bootable hard drives and it
happened with either drive booted. As a further test, I have
disconnected one of them and am running solely from the other.
So far no freeze. This AM though when I powered up I heard a slight,
unusual, sound coming from the CPU fan. I wonder if the fan is
binding up and CPU heat is the culprit. I need to watch that, and I
can since the tower is running with the cover off.

Duke

On Nov 16, 4:44*pm, wrote:
I am, and have been for some time, running XP SP3. *Have had no
trouble until now. * It is on a M3A78_CM mobo with a AMD Phenom 9950
Quad cpu and 4GB DDR2.

I find that it freezes up after being on sometimes an hour, sometimes
longer, requiring re-powering up. *I have tried the RAM one at a time,
and I have changed hard drives. *Same result.

So I figure it is the CPU or MOBO.

Anyone have a thought on this?

Thanks

Duke

First you say you have XP SP3, then you say you have dual bootable...
is that XP and Linux?

This is what I do when I see XP hang and need to figure out the
problem (if it is software).

If your system stops responding, hangs or freezes and you can't figure
out why, you can force a Blue Screen of Death (BSOD) which will create
a crash dump file that you can analyze and see what is running at the
point of the freeze and get some ideas that do not involve guesswork.

While it may seem odd to think about purposefully causing a Blue
Screen Of Death (BSOD), Microsoft includes such a provision in Windows
XP. The feature is built in to XP specifically to diagnose the problem
when a system stops responding.

This will eliminate trying things or guessing about what might have
happened maybe.

Sometimes there will not even be a clue about the problem in the Event
Log.

Here's how to force your system to create a BSOD:

First make sure your system is not set to automatically restart on a
system failure.

Right click My Computer, Properties, Advanced, Startup and Recovery,
Settings.

In the System failure section:

Put a check mark in the "Write an event to the system log" box
Put a check mark in the "Send an administrative alert" box
Uncheck the "Automatically restart" box

In the Write debugging information section, choose:

Small memory dump (64 KB)

Set the Small dump directory to:

%SystemRoot%\Minidump

Click OK twice to save the settings.

Now enable the XP feature to generate a crash dump on demand.

Before making registry changes, backup your registry with this popular
free and easy to use tool:

http://www.snapfiles.com/get/erunt.html

For PS/2 keyboards, launch the Registry Editor (Start, Run,
regedit.exe) and navigate to:

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\Pa rameters

For USB keyboards, launch the registry editor (Start, Run,
regedit.exe) and navigate to:

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\kbdhid\Para meters

Click Edit, select New DWORD Value and name the new value:

CrashOnCtrlScroll

Double-click the CrashOnCtrlScroll DWORD Value, type 1 in the Value
Data text box to enable the feature, and click OK.

Close the Registry Editor and restart Windows XP for the changes to
take effect.

When you want to cause a BSOD (when your system has stopped
responding), press and hold down the [Ctrl] key on the right side of
your keyboard, and then tap the [ScrollLock] key twice. Now you should
see the BSOD and you will have a crash dump file to analyze.

You may not see the information about your problem on the BSOD screen,
but you will find the answer in the crash dump file. You may need
help interpreting your crash dump file if you have never seen one
before.

You can read about the feature he

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff545499.aspx

There is no harm in leaving the feature enabled (mine is always on),
but if you are compelled to remove it, just undo the change you made
in the registry.

Launch the Registry Editor (Start, Run, regedit.exe) and navigate to:

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\Pa rameters

or

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\kbdhid\Para meters

Select the CrashOnCtrlScroll value, click the Edit menu, and select
the Delete command.

Close the Registry Editor and restart Windows XP.

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 03:32:34 -0800 (PST), Jose
wrote:


First you say you have XP SP3, then you say you have dual bootable...
is that XP and Linux?


XP and W7 - both hang, but not since yesterday AM, despite CPU fan
noise this AM when I powered up, which stopped making noise. I have
physically removed the W7 drive from the machine. Now just XP on C
drive.



This is what I do when I see XP hang and need to figure out the
problem (if it is software).

If your system stops responding, hangs or freezes and you can't figure
out why, you can force a Blue Screen of Death (BSOD) which will create
a crash dump file that you can analyze and see what is running at the
point of the freeze and get some ideas that do not involve guesswork.



While it may seem odd to think about purposefully causing a Blue
Screen Of Death (BSOD), Microsoft includes such a provision in Windows
XP. The feature is built in to XP specifically to diagnose the problem
when a system stops responding.

This will eliminate trying things or guessing about what might have
happened maybe.

Sometimes there will not even be a clue about the problem in the Event
Log.

Here's how to force your system to create a BSOD:

First make sure your system is not set to automatically restart on a
system failure.

Right click My Computer, Properties, Advanced, Startup and Recovery,
Settings.

In the System failure section:

Put a check mark in the "Write an event to the system log" box
Put a check mark in the "Send an administrative alert" box
Uncheck the "Automatically restart" box

In the Write debugging information section, choose:

Small memory dump (64 KB)

Set the Small dump directory to:

%SystemRoot%\Minidump


I did it

Click OK twice to save the settings.

Now enable the XP feature to generate a crash dump on demand.

Before making registry changes, backup your registry with this popular
free and easy to use tool:

http://www.snapfiles.com/get/erunt.html

For PS/2 keyboards, launch the Registry Editor (Start, Run,
regedit.exe) and navigate to:

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\P arameters

For USB keyboards, launch the registry editor (Start, Run,
regedit.exe) and navigate to:

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\kbdhid\Par ameters

Click Edit, select New DWORD Value and name the new value:

CrashOnCtrlScroll

Double-click the CrashOnCtrlScroll DWORD Value, type 1 in the Value
Data text box to enable the feature, and click OK.

Close the Registry Editor and restart Windows XP for the changes to
take effect.

I did it.

When you want to cause a BSOD (when your system has stopped
responding), press and hold down the [Ctrl] key on the right side of
your keyboard, and then tap the [ScrollLock] key twice. Now you should
see the BSOD and you will have a crash dump file to analyze.

You may not see the information about your problem on the BSOD screen,
but you will find the answer in the crash dump file. You may need
help interpreting your crash dump file if you have never seen one
before.

You can read about the feature he

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff545499.aspx

There is no harm in leaving the feature enabled (mine is always on),

This should prove educational. Thanks.
but if you are compelled to remove it, just undo the change you made
in the registry.

Launch the Registry Editor (Start, Run, regedit.exe) and navigate to:

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\P arameters

or

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\kbdhid\Par ameters

Select the CrashOnCtrlScroll value, click the Edit menu, and select
the Delete command.

Close the Registry Editor and restart Windows XP.

This could be a symptom of whatever bootmanager you are using is not doing
it's job properly.

If you are using the Window's XP bootloader (i.e. the OS options list comes
up as laid out in your "boot.ini" file in the root of the XP partition)
then it may be another type of HD data corruption that's a possible cause.

Have you tried something as simple as booting from the XP setup disk and
selecting the "press R to repair using Recovery Console" option. Then
running CHKDSK C: /P from the RC prompt?

You could also try booting into one or other OS in "safe-mode" and
consulting the Event Log (NT, XP, Vista, Win7).

Just don't be so eager to jump to the conclusion that it's got to be a
hardware conflict....

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)




wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 04:07:23 -0000, "Tim Meddick"
wrote:

Could be.......

However, the most common cause of Window's PC "freezing up", by far and
away, is a software conflict....

Hardware conflicts usually result in the PC freezing very soon after
start
or being unable to start at all!!

Check any recently installed software.

Pay particular attention to exactly WHAT was going on / you were doing,
when the "freeze" occurred.

On reboot, take a look in the Event Log for any additional clues.

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)


Thanks Tim

I thought that too. But I have dual bootable hard drives and it
happened with either drive booted. As a further test, I have
disconnected one of them and am running solely from the other.
So far no freeze. This AM though when I powered up I heard a slight,
unusual, sound coming from the CPU fan. I wonder if the fan is
binding up and CPU heat is the culprit. I need to watch that, and I
can since the tower is running with the cover off.

Duke

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 23:46:52 -0000, "Tim Meddick"
wrote:

This could be a symptom of whatever bootmanager you are using is not doing
it's job properly.

If you are using the Window's XP bootloader (i.e. the OS options list comes
up as laid out in your "boot.ini" file in the root of the XP partition)
then it may be another type of HD data corruption that's a possible cause.

Have you tried something as simple as booting from the XP setup disk and
selecting the "press R to repair using Recovery Console" option. Then
running CHKDSK C: /P from the RC prompt?

You could also try booting into one or other OS in "safe-mode" and
consulting the Event Log (NT, XP, Vista, Win7).

Just don't be so eager to jump to the conclusion that it's got to be a
hardware conflict....

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)



Okay, I won't. The machine is still on and will stay on overnight.
It has not froze yet. The key change was removing the second (W7)
boot drive. At least it seems that way.

Thanks again

Duke


wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 04:07:23 -0000, "Tim Meddick"
wrote:

Could be.......

However, the most common cause of Window's PC "freezing up", by far and
away, is a software conflict....

Hardware conflicts usually result in the PC freezing very soon after
start
or being unable to start at all!!

Check any recently installed software.

Pay particular attention to exactly WHAT was going on / you were doing,
when the "freeze" occurred.

On reboot, take a look in the Event Log for any additional clues.

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)


Thanks Tim

I thought that too. But I have dual bootable hard drives and it
happened with either drive booted. As a further test, I have
disconnected one of them and am running solely from the other.
So far no freeze. This AM though when I powered up I heard a slight,
unusual, sound coming from the CPU fan. I wonder if the fan is
binding up and CPU heat is the culprit. I need to watch that, and I
can since the tower is running with the cover off.

Duke

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 23:46:52 -0000, "Tim Meddick"
wrote:

This could be a symptom of whatever bootmanager you are using is not doing
it's job properly.

If you are using the Window's XP bootloader (i.e. the OS options list comes
up as laid out in your "boot.ini" file in the root of the XP partition)
then it may be another type of HD data corruption that's a possible cause.

I have used the boot.ini method on another setup, and am familiar with
that. On this machine, I found that the BIOS allows F8 to give full
selection of bootable drives, and so it is quite simple to select the
drive I wanted. Also, I though I mentioned this earlier, but I did do
a full restore from a two-week old backup just to see if data
corruption was involved. In any case, it is now another morning, and
the machine with just the one XP drive has not froze, despite that I
have left it on.

Have you tried something as simple as booting from the XP setup disk and
selecting the "press R to repair using Recovery Console" option. Then
running CHKDSK C: /P from the RC prompt?

I have run CHKDSK /F on both drives.


You could also try booting into one or other OS in "safe-mode" and
consulting the Event Log (NT, XP, Vista, Win7).

Have not done this.

Thanks for all your suggestions.

Duke

Just don't be so eager to jump to the conclusion that it's got to be a
hardware conflict....

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)




wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 04:07:23 -0000, "Tim Meddick"
wrote:

Could be.......

However, the most common cause of Window's PC "freezing up", by far and
away, is a software conflict....

Hardware conflicts usually result in the PC freezing very soon after
start
or being unable to start at all!!

Check any recently installed software.

Pay particular attention to exactly WHAT was going on / you were doing,
when the "freeze" occurred.

On reboot, take a look in the Event Log for any additional clues.

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)


Thanks Tim

I thought that too. But I have dual bootable hard drives and it
happened with either drive booted. As a further test, I have
disconnected one of them and am running solely from the other.
So far no freeze. This AM though when I powered up I heard a slight,
unusual, sound coming from the CPU fan. I wonder if the fan is
binding up and CPU heat is the culprit. I need to watch that, and I
can since the tower is running with the cover off.

Duke

This was my original post in m.p.w.b. Since I now think my problem is
hardware, namely my PSU, I am continuing my thread here.

I am, and have been for some time, running XP SP3. Have had no
trouble until now. It is on a M3A78_CM mobo with a AMD Phenom 9950
Quad cpu and 4GB DDR2.

I find that it freezes up after being on sometimes an hour, sometimes
longer, requiring re-powering up. I have tried the RAM one at a time,
and I have changed hard drives. Same result.

So I figure it is the CPU or MOBO.


The machine now sits dead - with only a C hard drive. Its mobo has
special power connections, which I cannot match with the few PSUs I
have in the closet. The connections are the normal power plug plus
two square connectors one that is beside the main power connector. the
other a connector elsewhere on the mobo. I have a PSU that has the
normal connector plus one square. I find that it fires up the cpu fan
fine (progress!) but I get no video and no beep or beeps whatsoever,

So, my question is - should I buy a replacement PSU with the correct
connectors?

Thanks


Duke

wrote:
This was my original post in m.p.w.b. Since I now think my problem is
hardware, namely my PSU, I am continuing my thread here.

I am, and have been for some time, running XP SP3. Have had no
trouble until now. It is on a M3A78_CM mobo with a AMD Phenom 9950
Quad cpu and 4GB DDR2.

I find that it freezes up after being on sometimes an hour, sometimes
longer, requiring re-powering up. I have tried the RAM one at a time,
and I have changed hard drives. Same result.

So I figure it is the CPU or MOBO.


The machine now sits dead - with only a C hard drive. Its mobo has
special power connections, which I cannot match with the few PSUs I
have in the closet. The connections are the normal power plug plus
two square connectors one that is beside the main power connector. the
other a connector elsewhere on the mobo. I have a PSU that has the
normal connector plus one square. I find that it fires up the cpu fan
fine (progress!) but I get no video and no beep or beeps whatsoever,

So, my question is - should I buy a replacement PSU with the correct
connectors?

Thanks

Duke

It's got an ATX12V 2x2 connector (two yellow wires, two black wires).
That connector powers the processor alone. It doesn't power the fan.
On a dual rail supply, that's called "12V2".

The main 24 pin connector, powers the fan headers, and the motherboard
logic. The 12V yellow wire(s) on that connector, run from "12V1". The
hard drives run from 12V1 as well.

(ATX12V can be seen here, in the lower left hand corner of this photo.
The main 24 pin connector is on the upper left. Something must be plugged
into both of those. Make sure the 2x2 connector has two yellow wires,
two black wires, and the plastic latches line up.)

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-131-330-S03?$S640W$

You can plug in, and use, a 20 pin ATX power supply, into the 24 pin
connector. Pictures of doing so, are shown on this page.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucon...onnectors.html

(Using a 20 pin, on a 24 pin motherboard is shown here.
Align the latches. The only time this solution is not advisable,
is if two 6600 type video cards are plugged into the motherboard.
If you have only one video card, then this solution is definitely
OK to use. The two 6600 video card case, causes an 8 amp load on the
main power connector, which is too much for a 20 pin connector.
Even monster video cards don't draw that kind of current any more,
from the slot - they draw more current from the video card separate
connectors. And that's why this option is safe, with only a few
exceptions, and those exceptions involve at least two video cards.)

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/20in24.jpg

Some 24 pin connectors, split in two pieces. This is termed a
20+4 connector. Be careful with this. The 4 pin section has
four *different* color wires, and should not be confused with
the ATX12V 2x2 which has two yellow wires and two black wires.
Only the connector with two yellow wires and two black wires,
goes into the 2x2 motherboard connector. You can do all sorts
of damage, by plugging the other one with the four different
color wires, into that one.

The 20+4 has a "rib" that helps the two sections stay together
when they're plugged into a 24 pin connector. If you wanted,
you can even split a 20+4, and only plug the 20 pin part,
into the 24 pin motherboard. But doing that is pointless. If
you have a 20+4, might as well use all the pins. The four
pin section with the four different color wires, isn't good
for anything else.

If you know, for a fact, your spare power supplies are
good, then you might conclude the motherboard or processor
are bad. But be careful with that assumption. I've got a
couple "ripe Antec supplies" here, with bad capacitors inside.
They'll fail, even if you store the supply in a closet and
don't stress it. The Antecs made by Channelwell, are failing
even when you don't use them. So beware if you're using one
of those. The second one of mine, when I tested it the other
day, was making "a smell", and I can tell it won't be long
before it's gone completely.

One test you can try, is pull all memory DIMMs. Make sure the
computer case speaker, is connected to the PANEL header. If
the computer beeps a repetitive beep pattern at power up,
that means the processor is reading BIOS code. If the
motherboard never, ever makes a beep, then that means
the processor is not currently reading BIOS code. Even
a corrupted BIOS could do that, but in your description,
you don't mention any recent attempts to flash update the
BIOS.

Paul

the mobo uses ATX power specs
1-24 pin for the main power...sometimes broken up into 20+4 pin
1-4 pin for the CPU

http://www.corsair.com/products/hx450/default.aspx

and depending what you have connected the manual
states 300wattt...........minimum!!!!!!!!!!
which is about 450 in real life with HD,etc connected.

peter



If you find a posting or message from me offensive,inappropriate
or disruptive,please ignore it.
If you dont know how to ignore a posting complain
to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate :-)
wrote in message ...

This was my original post in m.p.w.b. Since I now think my problem is
hardware, namely my PSU, I am continuing my thread here.

I am, and have been for some time, running XP SP3. Have had no
trouble until now. It is on a M3A78_CM mobo with a AMD Phenom 9950
Quad cpu and 4GB DDR2.

I find that it freezes up after being on sometimes an hour, sometimes
longer, requiring re-powering up. I have tried the RAM one at a time,
and I have changed hard drives. Same result.

So I figure it is the CPU or MOBO.


The machine now sits dead - with only a C hard drive. Its mobo has
special power connections, which I cannot match with the few PSUs I
have in the closet. The connections are the normal power plug plus
two square connectors one that is beside the main power connector. the
other a connector elsewhere on the mobo. I have a PSU that has the
normal connector plus one square. I find that it fires up the cpu fan
fine (progress!) but I get no video and no beep or beeps whatsoever,

So, my question is - should I buy a replacement PSU with the correct
connectors?

Thanks


Duke

wrote:
On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 17:25:21 -0500, wrote:

This was my original post in m.p.w.b. Since I now think my problem is
hardware, namely my PSU, I am continuing my thread here.

I am, and have been for some time, running XP SP3. Have had no
trouble until now. It is on a M3A78_CM mobo with a AMD Phenom 9950
Quad cpu and 4GB DDR2.

I find that it freezes up after being on sometimes an hour, sometimes
longer, requiring re-powering up. I have tried the RAM one at a time,
and I have changed hard drives. Same result.

So I figure it is the CPU or MOBO.

The machine now sits dead - with only a C hard drive. Its mobo has
special power connections, which I cannot match with the few PSUs I
have in the closet. The connections are the normal power plug plus
two square connectors one that is beside the main power connector. the
other a connector elsewhere on the mobo. I have a PSU that has the
normal connector plus one square. I find that it fires up the cpu fan
fine (progress!) but I get no video and no beep or beeps whatsoever,

So, my question is - should I buy a replacement PSU with the correct
connectors?
\

Well, here I am back again, dealing with all this. I am sorry I did
not get back sooner, but my wife needs a lot of my care these days
and that keeps me busy.

Where I left it was - I changed to a closet-psu I had and the mobo
still did not fire up - no cpu fan - no video - no beeps. I worried
that this second psu did not have a second 2x2. You suggested I try
booting up without DDRs in place, so I thought I would try that.
I was flabbergasted and embarrassed to discover that one DDR was
dislodged because my removal of the psu cause me to do that.
Naturally, when I re-seated that DDR, the machine booted up fine -
with video.

Again, I am embarrassed. Anyway, I guess this proves that the problem
is the original psu. I am now running with one 2x2 short. What is
that costing me? Should I just go with that, or should I buy the
right psu that fits the mobo?

Thanks again

Duke


What counts in debugging hardware, is whether you fixed it or not.

You succeeded.

*******

With regard to the PSU in your closet, it would depend on whether
you think the electrical load of the computer, can be met by the
power supply. The power supply has a label on the side. Every parameter
oh there means something. Each voltage at current level is specified.
Combined loads are specified (like no more than 100W on 3.3V and 5V).
All the info is useful.

(I'd want all these numbers.)
http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-182-006-S04?$S640W$

Then, you have to look at the hardware. If you provide a complete
hardware inventory, I can give you some idea what it needs.

I allocate 50W, to cover chipset and DIMMs, and that usually covers
what's on the motherboard. it's pretty hard to be more precise than
that with the motherboard, because the parts don't all have datasheets
for download (they're covered by NDA).

The Phenom 9950 comes in 125W and 140W editions. Considering the nature
of the power connector you're using, I'll assume you actually have
the 125W processor. That is about 12V @ 11.5 amps (at 90% Vcore
efficiency). On a dual rail supply, that would be coming from V2.

Your 12V1 load, would depend on the video card. If you're using
integrated video (780V, video connector on the I/O connector
area), then your 12V1 is HDD+ODD+fans or 0.6A+1.5A+0.5A or 2.6A
total. Your total 12V is then 11.5+2.6=14.1 amps. A 12V @ 15A
single rail older supply, covers that on paper, but could use a
bit more margin.

If you have a midrange video card, that might be 12V @ 4A for example,
of extra loading. That brings 12V2 up to 6.6 A.

There were some pretty strong, single rail 12V supplies in the past,
so your older PSU might in fact meet loads like that. If it is a
300W supply from some lightweight computer, then it really is
going to depend on the video card you're using, as to whether
it is enough.

So, a picture or link to the power supply label, plus a list of
the hardware that draws the power, and I can give some answers.

There are also power supply calculator web sites, that will give you
an answer. The worst of those sites, will give a number which is
double the correct answer.

Paul

The computer problems always drive me crazy, i have the same problems with you, several days ago my friend recommended me a software tuneup360, now I'm waiting for the result.

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