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#16
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Lengthen the life of Windows 7 using the legal system
Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:07:23 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote: In message 20190117090848.50d76286@milospc, Johnny writes: On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 22:37:21 +0800 "Mr. Man-wai Chang" wrote: Can a class-action suit be filed to US Court to force Micro$oft to extend its support for Windows 7? I doubt it; I can't see how any company can be obliged to continue supporting an obsolete product, unless they were foolish enough to ever promise to do so. I would say it's like expecting Ford to continue to support the Model T, but I have a feeling they do. snip One might wonder what's obsolete about Windows 7, and who gets to make the determination in the first place? It certainly doesn't seem obsolete to me. In fact, it seems to be much more functional and stable than 10, although that opinion isn't universal. I don't even think it needs to be compared to Windows 10. As Windows 10 is just full of circus tricks. If you need basic functionality supporting modern APIs, Windows 7 has most everything you might profit from. Paul |
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#17
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Lengthen the life of Windows 7 using the legal system
On 2019-01-18 01:46, Paul wrote:
Char Jackson wrote: On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:07:23 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote: In message 20190117090848.50d76286@milospc, Johnny writes: On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 22:37:21 +0800 "Mr. Man-wai Chang" wrote: Can a class-action suit be filed to US Court to force Micro$oft to extend its support for Windows 7? I doubt it; I can't see how any company can be obliged to continue supporting an obsolete product, unless they were foolish enough to ever promise to do so. I would say it's like expecting Ford to continue to support the Model T, but I have a feeling they do. snip One might wonder what's obsolete about Windows 7, and who gets to make the determination in the first place? It certainly doesn't seem obsolete to me. In fact, it seems to be much more functional and stable than 10, although that opinion isn't universal. I don't even think it needs to be compared to Windows 10. As Windows 10 is just full of circus tricks. If you need basic functionality supporting modern APIs, Windows 7 has most everything you might profit from. Paul Personally I think Windows 8.1 is the best option out there for people who do not want to use Windows 10 (me). Windows 7 boots slower than 8.1 + start menu is not really necessary for me. |
#18
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Lengthen the life of Windows 7 using the legal system
On 2019-01-17 09:37, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
Can a class-action suit be filed to US Court to force Micro$oft to extend its support for Windows 7? Not a chance. I do NOT think Windows 10 is ready for the prime time, it's update is absolutely as horrifying as a data doomsday. No-one is forcing you to use it. I know people who are still using XP; the fact that Microsoft has stopped supporting XP makes no difference to them. You can simply keep on using Win 7, support or no support. You can install one of the many Linux distros. You can get a Mac. There are many other possible choices. |
#19
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Lengthen the life of Windows 7 using the legal system
In message , Paul
writes: Char Jackson wrote: On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:07:23 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote: In message 20190117090848.50d76286@milospc, Johnny writes: On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 22:37:21 +0800 "Mr. Man-wai Chang" wrote: Can a class-action suit be filed to US Court to force Micro$oft to extend its support for Windows 7? I doubt it; I can't see how any company can be obliged to continue supporting an obsolete product, unless they were foolish enough to ever promise to do so. I would say it's like expecting Ford to continue to support the Model T, but I have a feeling they do. snip One might wonder what's obsolete about Windows 7, and who gets to make the determination in the first place? It certainly doesn't seem obsolete to me. In fact, it seems to be much more functional and stable than 10, although that opinion isn't universal. Obsolete was the wrong word. I meant the company that makes it is no longer selling it. Microsoft have always behaved as if their latest was best - would be a massive loss of face for them to backtrack. The only way out when they _have_ nailed their colours to a dud, in the past, has been to bring out the next one. But with their statement that 10 will be/is the last Windows, combined with their new (for 10) upgrade policy, they can't do that now. I don't even think it needs to be compared to Windows 10. As Windows 10 is just full of circus tricks. If you need basic functionality supporting modern APIs, Windows 7 has most everything you might profit from. Indeed. Paul -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Abandon hope, all ye who ENTER here. |
#20
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Lengthen the life of Windows 7 using the legal system
On 1/17/2019 7:01 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:07:23 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote: In message 20190117090848.50d76286@milospc, Johnny writes: On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 22:37:21 +0800 "Mr. Man-wai Chang" wrote: Can a class-action suit be filed to US Court to force Micro$oft to extend its support for Windows 7? I doubt it; I can't see how any company can be obliged to continue supporting an obsolete product, unless they were foolish enough to ever promise to do so. I would say it's like expecting Ford to continue to support the Model T, but I have a feeling they do. snip One might wonder what's obsolete about Windows 7, and who gets to make the determination in the first place? It certainly doesn't seem obsolete to me. In fact, it seems to be much more functional and stable than 10, although that opinion isn't universal. The same people who said the Model T was obsolete and built the Model A Ford -- 2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre |
#21
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Lengthen the life of Windows 7 using the legal system
"Keith Nuttle" wrote in message ... The same people who said the Model T was obsolete and built the Model A Ford No, its more like the same people who complained about Windows 7 that were holding the opinion XP was better. The cycle repeats with the same peoples' complaints. -- ....w¡ñ§±¤ñ ms mvp windows 2007-2016, insider mvp 2016-2018 |
#22
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Lengthen the life of Windows 7 using the legal system
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:24:53 -0500, ...w
wrote: "Keith Nuttle" wrote in message ... The same people who said the Model T was obsolete and built the Model A Ford No, its more like the same people who complained about Windows 7 that were holding the opinion XP was better. The cycle repeats with the same peoples' complaints. In many ways, XP was better than 7, 7 was better than 8, and 8 was better than 10 (in any of its forms). So yes, the cycle repeats, but only MS can break out of the rut. They'd have to produce an OS that people generally regard as better than what came before it, which is much easier said than done. |
#23
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Lengthen the life of Windows 7 using the legal system
Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:24:53 -0500, ...w wrote: "Keith Nuttle" wrote in message ... The same people who said the Model T was obsolete and built the Model A Ford No, its more like the same people who complained about Windows 7 that were holding the opinion XP was better. The cycle repeats with the same peoples' complaints. In many ways, XP was better than 7, 7 was better than 8, and 8 was better than 10 (in any of its forms). So yes, the cycle repeats, but only MS can break out of the rut. They'd have to produce an OS that people generally regard as better than what came before it, which is much easier said than done. Well, they did so at least in the following transitions: Win 3.1 to Win 95 to Win 98SE to Win XP. Each one was better, IMHO. Then I think things went South, since Windows 7 (at least to me) seems much more restrictive in what I can and cannot do(is too nanny-state-ish). Like with all the Ownership and Permissions stuff. And the confusing Junction Points. More obfuscations. And almost needing Classic Shell, for a more sensibly intuitive and logical interface. And I am guessing Windows 10 retains all of that - and more. |
#24
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Lengthen the life of Windows 7 using the legal system
Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
Lengthen the life of Windows 7 using the legal system Can a class-action suit be filed to US Court to force Micro$oft to extend its support for Windows 7? You might as well try engthen the life of democracy in Hong Kong using the legal system. [followups set] -- 民主好! 民主好! 民主好! |
#25
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Lengthen the life of Windows 7 using the legal system
On 1/18/2019 5:13 PM, Aslan Bashiyev wrote:
You might as well try engthen the life of democracy in Hong Kong using the legal system. Off-topic! Do that if you got military strength! Anyway, the life and death of Hong Kong doesn't bother anyone nor matter. -- @~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you! ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3 ¤£*ɶU! ¤£¶BÄF! ¤£½ä¿ú! ¤£´©¥æ! ¤£¥´¥æ! ¤£¥´§T! ¤£¦Û±þ! ¤£¨D¯«! ½Ð¦Ò¼{ºî´© (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa |
#26
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Lengthen the life of Windows 7 using the legal system
On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 03:45:39 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Obsolete was the wrong word. I meant the company that makes it is no longer selling it. That's really a choice for MSFT. When/if they no longer support a version - usually after a couple of newer versions have been released - they are perfectly entitled to label the old version 'obsolete'. Fans of such versions of course may crowd together and share hints and tips, just like fans of old cars do even after the original makers went out of business. At the present time we know MSFT have released win10 versions 1511, 1607, 1703,1709, 1803, 1809 in a semi-annual pattern of feature updates. Hard to keep up for large user organisations no doubt, but easy enough for individual home/pro users, just like a stream of service packs. The only hard choice recently is the move from support for 32 bit machines to a 64 bit focus. That is a hard one when there are significant numbers still with 32 bit machines. Fair enough for the Win7 crowd to get together and share their nostalgia for the old days, but no need to pollute the Windows10 newsgroup with such sentimentality. |
#27
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Lengthen the life of Windows 7 using the legal system
Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:24:53 -0500, ...w wrote: "Keith Nuttle" wrote in message ... The same people who said the Model T was obsolete and built the Model A Ford No, its more like the same people who complained about Windows 7 that were holding the opinion XP was better. The cycle repeats with the same peoples' complaints. In many ways, XP was better than 7, 7 was better than 8, and 8 was better than 10 (in any of its forms). So yes, the cycle repeats, but only MS can break out of the rut. They'd have to produce an OS that people generally regard as better than what came before it, which is much easier said than done. Well, they *did* break the pattern going from Vista (which you left out) to 7! Or are you implying that Vista was better than 7!? :-) [Well, unless you were an early adopter, Vista wasn't all that bad. The Security/Permissions model was quite *different*, but - at least IMO - not bad/worse_than_XP. Vista served me well for nearly eight years. YMMV/YMWV.] |
#28
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Lengthen the life of Windows 7 using the legal system
On 18/01/2019 05:52, Bill in Co wrote:
Char Jackson wrote: In many ways, XP was better than 7, 7 was better than 8, and 8 was better than 10 (in any of its forms). So yes, the cycle repeats, but only MS can break out of the rut. They'd have to produce an OS that people generally regard as better than what came before it, which is much easier said than done. Well, they did so at least in the following transitions: Win 3.1 to Win 95 to Win 98SE Alright so far, but what about NT? to Win XP. Each one was better, IMHO. Not IME, 2000 was way better than XP. It could still be argued that NT & 2000 have been the only truly *Professional* releases - in other words comparatively free from bloat, eye candy clutter, and useless gizmos, with GUIs that could, admittedly with some trouble, be made to 'just work' in a way that has become increasingly more difficult with every new version since, and is now almost impossible. Then I think things went South, since Windows 7 (at least to me) seems much more restrictive in what I can and cannot do(is too nanny-state-ish). Like with all the Ownership and Permissions stuff. And the confusing Junction Points. More obfuscations. And almost needing Classic Shell, for a more sensibly intuitive and logical interface. And I am guessing Windows 10 retains all of that - and more. Yes, the cluttered child's toy GUIs increasingly took over, in a way that fills me with visceral disgust whenever I encounter a new installation and am filled with the depressing and long-winded task of removing all the crap clutter to make it look even tolerably professional. |
#29
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Lengthen the life of Windows 7 using the legal system
On 1/18/2019 10:19 AM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2019-01-18 00:52, Bill in Co wrote: Char Jackson wrote: [...] In many ways, XP was better than 7, 7 was better than 8, and 8 was better than 10 (in any of its forms). So yes, the cycle repeats, but only MS can break out of the rut. They'd have to produce an OS that people generally regard as better than what came before it, which is much easier said than done. Well, they did so at least in the following transitions: Win 3.1 to Win 95 to Win 98SE to Win XP.* Each one was better, IMHO. Then I think things went South, since Windows 7 (at least to me) seems much more restrictive in what I can and cannot do(is too nanny-state-ish). Like with all the Ownership and Permissions stuff. That's security stuff. If you don't have different levels of permission, anyone can do anything. They don;t even have to sit at your keyboard: Weaknesses in the ownership/permissions stuff is one of the opportunities for malware to do its evil stuff. And the confusing Junction Points.* More obfuscations. That's part of "Libraries", which are intended to make it easier to find stuff on large disks. Most users have great trouble organising stuff to make it easier to find. (There's a reason an old fiction stereotype was the secretary who dreamed of the perfect filing system.) IMO, MS could have done a better job of it, though. And almost needing Classic Shell, for a more sensibly intuitive and logical interface. And I am guessing Windows 10 retains all of that - and more. Best, With Windows 10 1809 it is much easier to set up permission. ie it has become less restrictive. When MS put in the Homegroup it really messed things up. Now that it is gone permissions and sharing are about the same and as easy as Windows 7. -- 2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre |
#30
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Lengthen the life of Windows 7 using the legal system
Wolf K wrote:
On 2019-01-18 00:52, Bill in Co wrote: Well, they did so at least in the following transitions: Win 3.1 to Win 95 to Win 98SE to Win XP. Each one was better, IMHO. Then I think things went South, since Windows 7 (at least to me) seems much more restrictive in what I can and cannot do(is too nanny-state-ish). Like with all the Ownership and Permissions stuff. That's security stuff. If you don't have different levels of permission, anyone can do anything. They don;t even have to sit at your keyboard: Weaknesses in the ownership/permissions stuff is one of the opportunities for malware to do its evil stuff. The so-called "security" is the two-step. If you knew how to do it, you could likely remove or fix just about any permission. It just takes time. It would really help if there were better tools for it, like an "expert advisor" to tell you why you're blocked, and what steps are needed to unblock. Some permission issues are caused by using "inherit", which means a property applied in a folder above where I'm working, might be responsible. When this has happened, I've *never* been able to figure out what's doing it :-( Not ever. The administrator has the "impersonate" privilege, and that, plus software, should be enough to solve a lot of "permission" problems. And that applies to non-Domain type issues. If you're at work on a machine, the extent to which you can adjust things is going to be more limited. For a home user, things should be much better. It's never going to be Win98, so get that out of your head right away. If someone made a decent tool, at least you could know where something comes from, and why that policy exists. Even the Sysinternals tools for this, only scratch the surface on what would be useful for end users. Paul |
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