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#16
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Operating system not found, or was it?
micky wrote:
I dont' delete email from any of the servers, so I can dl it all when I get home, and I send myself a copy of any email I send, so that will be there too (although I plan to merge the laptop outbox with the desktop outbox. The copies sent to myself are a backup if the laptop is lost, stolen, or irrparably broken.) I take it that you are still using POP instead of discovering how IMAP syncs across all your e-mail client while also providing a backup on the server (likely the service's backup schedule is far more often than yours). |
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#17
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Operating system not found, or was it?
In alt.windows7.general, on Tue, 26 Feb 2019 10:54:02 -0600, VanguardLH
wrote: micky wrote: I dont' delete email from any of the servers, so I can dl it all when I get home, and I send myself a copy of any email I send, so that will be there too (although I plan to merge the laptop outbox with the desktop outbox. The copies sent to myself are a backup if the laptop is lost, stolen, or irrparably broken.) I take it that you are still using POP instead of discovering how IMAP syncs across all your e-mail client while also providing a backup on the server (likely the service's backup schedule is far more often than yours). Yes, I've thought about IMAP but with my schedule, I'm satisfied with POP. |
#18
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Operating system not found, or was it?
In alt.windows7.general, on Sun, 24 Feb 2019 19:44:12 +0200, micky
wrote: Running win7, fully updated afaik, on a Dell laptop, model available on request. :-) Thing has been working fine. Hibernate before I left this morning. Turn it on tonight, "No operating system" or "Operating system not found" or words to that effect. 3 times in a row. Next time, F12, choose method of booting (or words to that effect). I choose the hard drive. Immediately it says Resuming Windows, and shows the moving image that win7 shows when it's coming out of hibernation. Computer starts in a typical length of time. What is the problem and what should I do about it? I'm out of town and only have my laptop, a mouse, and a keyboard. The next time I hibernated, it said "Operating system not found" the first time I tried to restart, but the second time it worked fine. Should I be running CHKDSK?? |
#19
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Operating system not found, or was it?
micky wrote:
In alt.windows7.general, on Sun, 24 Feb 2019 19:44:12 +0200, micky wrote: Running win7, fully updated afaik, on a Dell laptop, model available on request. :-) Thing has been working fine. Hibernate before I left this morning. Turn it on tonight, "No operating system" or "Operating system not found" or words to that effect. 3 times in a row. Next time, F12, choose method of booting (or words to that effect). I choose the hard drive. Immediately it says Resuming Windows, and shows the moving image that win7 shows when it's coming out of hibernation. Computer starts in a typical length of time. What is the problem and what should I do about it? I'm out of town and only have my laptop, a mouse, and a keyboard. The next time I hibernated, it said "Operating system not found" the first time I tried to restart, but the second time it worked fine. Should I be running CHKDSK?? Does your boot menu have two OS entries ? https://www.groovypost.com/wp-conten...CD-623x480.png What would happen if the disk with one of those OS entries was missing ? Have you, by any chance, cloned the first OS onto a second disk, then updated the BCD with bootrec or something similar ? Maybe the OS did it under some failure condition, and included a disk in the boot menu that you never intended for it to "see" ? The next time it starts, it's probably going to attempt to enumerate all the disks in the BCD menu. These are all purely guesses as to where such a message could be coming from. Paul |
#20
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Operating system not found, or was it?
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 10:04:57 +0200, micky
wrote: In alt.windows7.general, on Tue, 26 Feb 2019 10:54:02 -0600, VanguardLH wrote: micky wrote: I dont' delete email from any of the servers, so I can dl it all when I get home, and I send myself a copy of any email I send, so that will be there too (although I plan to merge the laptop outbox with the desktop outbox. The copies sent to myself are a backup if the laptop is lost, stolen, or irrparably broken.) I take it that you are still using POP instead of discovering how IMAP syncs across all your e-mail client while also providing a backup on the server (likely the service's backup schedule is far more often than yours). Yes, I've thought about IMAP but with my schedule, I'm satisfied with POP. It's still early, but so far this gets my vote for mysterious response of the day. One wonders what a schedule has to do with it. Clearly, IMAP rather than POP would significantly lessen your workload, given your convoluted description above. *shrug* -- Char Jackson |
#21
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Operating system not found, or was it?
Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 10:04:57 +0200, micky wrote: In alt.windows7.general, on Tue, 26 Feb 2019 10:54:02 -0600, VanguardLH wrote: micky wrote: I dont' delete email from any of the servers, so I can dl it all when I get home, and I send myself a copy of any email I send, so that will be there too (although I plan to merge the laptop outbox with the desktop outbox. The copies sent to myself are a backup if the laptop is lost, stolen, or irrparably broken.) I take it that you are still using POP instead of discovering how IMAP syncs across all your e-mail client while also providing a backup on the server (likely the service's backup schedule is far more often than yours). Yes, I've thought about IMAP but with my schedule, I'm satisfied with POP. It's still early, but so far this gets my vote for mysterious response of the day. One wonders what a schedule has to do with it. Clearly, IMAP rather than POP would significantly lessen your workload, given your convoluted description above. *shrug* To what did "schedule" refer? To backups. The OP mentioned using copies "sent to himself" to provide backups. The OP should already be performing regular scheduled backups of his data files and perhaps an image backup of his OS and data drives (if different). What's the OP going to do when his "copies" used as backups are on a failed drive? Yep, he loses those "backups". He doesn't have them in his own backups because he's not really doing backups. If he just can't stand to setup a regular schedule of backups to run on his hosts, he can rely on the e-mail provider's backups. If their IMAP account data requires it, they can back it up. With IMAP, the server is the backup (and likely the only one the OP would have). With POP, and the OP using copies of his e-mails, he has no data recovery when there is a hardware failure. |
#22
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Operating system not found, or was it?
In message , VanguardLH
writes: [] To what did "schedule" refer? To backups. The OP mentioned using copies "sent to himself" to provide backups. The OP should already be performing regular scheduled backups of his data files and perhaps an image backup of his OS and data drives (if different). What's the OP going to do when his "copies" used as backups are on a failed drive? Yep, he loses those "backups". He doesn't have them in his own backups because he's not really doing backups. If he just can't stand to setup a regular schedule of backups to run on his hosts, he can rely on the e-mail provider's backups. If their IMAP account data requires it, they can back it up. With IMAP, the server is the backup (and likely the only one the OP would have). With POP, and the OP using copies of his e-mails, he has no data recovery when there is a hardware failure. I think you set yourself going without registering everything he has said (and once a VLH is going, it's hard to stop!). I think he's said he backs up his home system; however, he's temporarily travelling, having nothing but one laptop (presumably no external drive). _While he's travelling_, he's sending himself copies of emails he sends - and, he's using POP set to not delete from the server. Thus, when he gets home, he'll have copies of all his sent and received emails, which his home system (which he does I think back up) will retrieve (and presumably delete) from the server. Some of us like the simplicity of POP. Since you _can_ set it to not-delete. Each to his own. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf To keep leaf vegetables clean and crisp, cook lightly, then plunge into iced water (the vegetables, that is). - manual for a Russell Hobbs electric steamer |
#23
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Operating system not found, or was it?
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , VanguardLH writes: [] To what did "schedule" refer? To backups. The OP mentioned using copies "sent to himself" to provide backups. The OP should already be performing regular scheduled backups of his data files and perhaps an image backup of his OS and data drives (if different). What's the OP going to do when his "copies" used as backups are on a failed drive? Yep, he loses those "backups". He doesn't have them in his own backups because he's not really doing backups. If he just can't stand to setup a regular schedule of backups to run on his hosts, he can rely on the e-mail provider's backups. If their IMAP account data requires it, they can back it up. With IMAP, the server is the backup (and likely the only one the OP would have). With POP, and the OP using copies of his e-mails, he has no data recovery when there is a hardware failure. I think you set yourself going without registering everything he has said (and once a VLH is going, it's hard to stop!). I think he's said he backs up his home system; however, he's temporarily travelling, having nothing but one laptop (presumably no external drive). _While he's travelling_, he's sending himself copies of emails he sends - and, he's using POP set to not delete from the server. Thus, when he gets home, he'll have copies of all his sent and received emails, which his home system (which he does I think back up) will retrieve (and presumably delete) from the server. Some of us like the simplicity of POP. Since you _can_ set it to not-delete. Each to his own. With IMAP, you don't need to send yourself any copies to another computer. When you install a new OS and a new e-mail client, you delete an e-mail client and start using a different one, you have multiple hosts with e-mail clients connecting to the same e-mail account, IMAP keeps them all synchronized. None of having to keep copies of e-mail separate of the e-mail server to have backups. Yes, you can configure the POP client to not delete retrieved new e-mails, and then you won't see them in any other POP client until those other clients poll. IMAP keeps all clients in sync. With POP, the user has to do that. Yes, you can configure all the POP clients to not delete newly retrieved messages, but that won't help with sent messages from each client. Only the client that sent the message will have a copy -- and that's why the OP is sending himself duplicates of his sent messages which is completely unnecessary when using IMAP. But wait, even if you set your local e-mail client to not delete new e-mails (so you can poll with another POP client to get those same e-mails), that may not be honored. For example, Gmail doesn't do POP despite their claim. They do gPOP: their version of POP. One difference is that you must configure a *server-side* setting in your account as to what happens when your local e-mail client retrieve via POP. Despite your local client configured to not delete retrieved new e-mails, Gmail will still delete it on the server, so they won't be available to other POP e-mail client. You have to configure Gmail away from its default, so it (not your client) will not delete touched e-mails when using POP. I don't remember the other e-mail provider but do remember seeing another that you had to configure a server-side account setting as to what happens with a new e-mail after a POP client retrieves it. With IMAP, you can even create folders, like Archive or Craigslist or Work or Friends or whatever organization you like, to move Inbox e-mails into other folders, so your Inbox doesn't become unmanageable. I've seen users with over 3000 e-mails in their Inbox because that's where they archive all their old e-mails, and then spend time trying to figure out the correct search terms to find an old e-mail. With IMAP, you can manipulate all folders, not just the Inbox folder. POP has no concept of folders. In fact, there is no Inbox folder in POP. That's your e-mail client's representation of the *mailbox* to which it connected. Letting you have your own folders gives your the ability to organize, just like how folders in a file system lets you organize instead of dumping every file into the root folder. If you have folders (other than Inbox which is really just the mailbox the POP commands can access), they are local-only folders within that instance of the POP client. Sent e-mails go into the Sent Items folder of *just* the POP client you used to send the e-mail hence why the OP is having to send himself a copy of his sent e-mails to get them into the Inbox aka mailbox of his other POP clients. With IMAP, every IMAP client will see the same Sent Items folder on the server with a local copy transferred to the client. All clients stay in sync. You don't have to come up with a Rube Goldberg setup to emulate in POP what is available with IMAP. You could use one IMAP account into which get redirected e-mails from other accounts. You could have "Inbox (Gmail)", "Inbox (Hotmail)", "Inbox (Work)", and so one instead of pushing all e-mails from your multiple accounts into a single Inbox folder using POP where then you have to figure out what all got piled into a single Inbox folder. Instead of having to duplicate your sent e-mails (to send yourself a copy), the Sent Items folder in IMAP is, well, an actual folder and IMAP does folders. No matter which IMAP client you use to connect to your account, ALL of them will see your Sent Items folder. The biggest advantage to IMAP is that multiple e-mail clientss, even freshly installed ones or even if you delete the account and re-add it, will all see the same message store. POP is always a poll protocol. IMAP can be polled, like POP, but IMAP can also push, so your local e-mail client gets a new incoming e-mail when it arrives on the server, not whenever the local e-mail client gets around to the next poll interval. IMAP is more widely available. POP is on the decline. Has been for awhile. Less e-mail providers are allowing POP access, just IMAP. With IMAP, you can configure the local client to download headers only. You can decide to download the new e-mails but without their attachments. POP only knows about a mailbox and a message. It cannot parse the message to determine what parts of it to download. With IMAP, you can selectively decide which MIME parts (attachments) you download. That means you can decide, especially with huge e-mails, if you want to download the entire message to have a local copy, or just the headers, or later retrieve the attachments. With POP, yes, you can set a threshold of how big is a message that doesn't get retrieved, but you cannot see the headers to determine from whom is that message. With POP, you get the entire message or nothing. With POP, you either download the message or not. With IMAP, you can do the same or you can just retrieve headers. In fact, if you configure the IMAP client to just retrieve headers, you don't even have to download the entire message to then delete it (by first retrieving it and then having the client issue a DEL command). What is so hard about configuring a local e-mail account to do IMAP? Claiming POP is simpler is untrue. It is definitely more basic. POP gives you a screwdriver to manager your e-mails. IMAP gives you a toolbox. There is lots POP cannot do that IMAP does. There is nothing that POP does that IMAP cannot do. IMAP can do POP, and lots more; for example, not having to send himself copies of his sent e-mails. The OP could have his travelling laptop stolen or lost AND his home PC with its e-mail client destroyed in a house fire and yet all his messages will still be available and organized in an IMAP account ready for whenever and wherever he sets up another IMAP client. A problem can arise with an overly short polling interval with POP. Say someone sends you a huge e-mail, like one with a video of their precious new baby or kittens. With POP, it will doe a RETR[ieve] command to download the message. Oops, the next polling interval comes along. What happens to the current message download? Does it continue? Nope, it gets aborted to restart download the same message all over again. Some users have very short poll times. 1 minute is abusive to the e-mail provider and may violated the usage rules. 5 minutes can be too short since e-mail servers throttle their connections so each gets some response. You don't get their full upstream bandwidth limited by your downstream bandwidth to download the message at highest speed. Your POP client keeps re-downloading the same huge message because the POP client's poll interval is too short. You could make it a lot longer but that means taking longer to get replies from other senders. You don't need polling with IMAP, so a current download doesn't get interrupted. Of course, e-mail was never designed to be a file transfer protocol and e-mail servers are not setup to be file servers yet users abuse e-mail all the time to transfer huge files. Yeah, there are the rare horror stories that users lost all their e-mail up on the server but that doesn't impugn POP or IMAP. These users want local copies of their e-mails, especially when they do not have an Internet connection. So what? An IMAP client can store local copies, too, for offline access. The Internet isn't everywhere. You aren't using a web browser to access your e-mail account. You're using a local IMAP client that stores its own local copies of your messages that it synchronized to those on the server and in all folders (not just one pseudo-Inbox aka mailbox). You can still read your e-mails while offline whether using POP or IMAP, and you can still include your e-mail client's message store files in your local backups. If disk space is tight, as is often the case with laptops and netbooks, and you're willing to forego offline access to your e-mails, IMAP will save on disk space for its message store. By default, IMAP downloads only descriptive info about your messages which helps when the user has a slow connection. When moving about, high-speed cable or fiber isn't available everywhere there is an Internet connection. Some resort's wifi speed is horrendously slow, even after you pay more for more speed. Arguing POP is better is like saying you want a radio that gets only one station. Who buys a radio that gets only one station? Would you want to decipher which files are for what if they all got piled into a single root folder? Why define rules to send duplicates of your sent messages when IMAP does that without using rules? |
#24
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Operating system not found, or was it?
In alt.windows7.general, on Thu, 28 Feb 2019 18:57:47 -0600, VanguardLH
wrote: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message , VanguardLH writes: [] To what did "schedule" refer? To backups. No. The OP mentioned using copies "sent to himself" to provide backups. The OP should already be performing regular scheduled backups of his data files and perhaps an image backup of his OS and data drives (if different). What's the OP going to do when his "copies" used as backups are on a failed drive? Yep, he loses those "backups". He doesn't have them in his own backups because he's not really doing backups. If he just can't stand to setup a regular schedule of backups to run on his hosts, he can rely on the e-mail provider's backups. If their IMAP account data requires it, they can back it up. With IMAP, the server is the backup (and likely the only one the OP would have). With POP, and the OP using copies of his e-mails, he has no data recovery when there is a hardware failure. I think you set yourself going without registering everything he has said (and once a VLH is going, it's hard to stop!). I think he's said he backs up his home system; however, he's temporarily travelling, having nothing but one laptop (presumably no external drive). _While he's travelling_, he's sending himself copies of emails he sends - and, he's using POP set to not delete from the server. Thus, when he gets home, he'll have copies of all his sent and received emails, which his home system (which he does I think back up) will retrieve (and presumably delete) from the server. Yes, all that you said. Including backing up my email. I keep about 4 days worth of email on the server. The meaning of "schedule" was that I take about 1 trip a year. Some of us like the simplicity of POP. Since you _can_ set it to not-delete. Each to his own. With IMAP, you don't need to send yourself any copies to another computer. It's computerized. I set up my stationery on my laptop over 2 years ago, with a bcc to me, and there is nothing more I have had to do or will have to do. When you install a new OS and a new e-mail client, you delete I rarely install a new OS and I never install from scratch a mail client. I copy all the files over from the previous OS, and I only install the client so it will be in the list of allowable default mail clients. So I can make it the default, which only matters when clicking on a an email address. or mailto: link. an e-mail client and start using a different one, you have multiple hosts with e-mail clients connecting to the same e-mail account, IMAP keeps them all synchronized. None of having to keep copies of e-mail separate of the e-mail server to have backups. Yes, you can configure the POP client to not delete retrieved new e-mails, and then you won't see them in any other POP client until those other clients poll. And I don't want to see them until then. IMAP keeps all clients in sync. In sync with what? Each other? I don't want all my email on, or even visible with my laptop. Only that which came in the last few days, and the outbox. With POP, the user has to do that. Yes, you can configure all the POP clients to not delete newly retrieved messages, but that won't help with sent messages from each client. Only the client that sent the message will have a copy -- and that's why the OP is sending himself duplicates of his sent messages which is completely unnecessary when using IMAP. But wait, even if you set your local e-mail client to not delete new e-mails (so you can poll with another POP client to get those same e-mails), that may not be honored. For example, Gmail doesn't do POP despite their claim. They do gPOP: their version of POP. One difference is that you must configure a *server-side* setting in your account as to what happens when your local e-mail client retrieve via POP. Despite your local client configured to not delete retrieved new e-mails, Gmail will still delete it on the server, so they won't be available to other POP e-mail client. I don't know about that. I don't get anything important with gmail, I only set it up because Android insisted on it, but somehow the gmail app on the phone runs whether I want it to or not, and sometimes there is gmail to receive. Whatever I get on the phone, I also get on the PC. I can't compare the desktop to the laptop until I get home, but I've not noticed a discrepancy. There is a setting to get gmail on more t han once computer. Perhaps you don't know about it. IIRC, it requires prepending Recent: to one's full email address and using that for Username. A one-time thing. You have to configure Gmail away from its default, so it (not your client) will not delete touched e-mails when using POP. That's a one-time thing. I don't remember the other e-mail provider but do remember seeing another that you had to configure a server-side account setting as to what happens with a new e-mail after a POP client retrieves it. With IMAP, you can even create folders, like Archive or Craigslist or Work or Friends or whatever organization you like, to move Inbox e-mails into other folders, so your Inbox doesn't become unmanageable. I've And what makes you think you can't do all this with POP? seen users with over 3000 e-mails in their Inbox because that's where they archive all their old e-mails, That has nothing to do with me. and then spend time trying to figure out the correct search terms to find an old e-mail. With IMAP, you can manipulate all folders, not just the Inbox folder. And also with POP. POP has no concept of folders. Who says? Perhaps with some clients folders are not possible, but it's not because POP is used. In fact, there is no Inbox folder in POP. That's your e-mail client's representation of the *mailbox* to which it connected. Letting you have your own folders gives your the ability to organize, just like how folders in a file system lets you organize instead of dumping every file into the root folder. If you have folders (other than Inbox which is really just the mailbox the POP commands can access), they are local-only folders within that instance of the POP client. Sent e-mails go into the Sent Items folder of *just* the POP client you used to send the e-mail hence why the OP is having to send himself a copy of his sent e-mails to get them into the Inbox aka mailbox of his other POP clients. With IMAP, every IMAP client will see the same Sent Items folder on the server with a local copy transferred to the client. I don't want to see all my email when I'm away from home. All clients stay in sync. You don't have to come up with a Rube Goldberg setup to emulate in POP what is available with IMAP. You could use one IMAP account into which get redirected e-mails from other accounts. You can do that with POP also. You could have "Inbox (Gmail)", "Inbox (Hotmail)", "Inbox (Work)", I mix all my incoming mail together before I send it to other mailboxes, so that everything which doesn't have a special mailbox is mixed together. But that is not required. I coudl certainly do what you suggest just above. I decided not to. Except for gmail which gets its own mailbox because it's sort the stepchild of my email life. I use it for airbnb, quora, and google comments, and I haven't done any airbnb for over a year. I get one or two gmails a month. and so one instead of pushing all e-mails from your multiple accounts into a single Inbox folder using POP where then you have to figure out what all got piled into a single Inbox folder. Instead of having to duplicate your sent e-mails (to send yourself a copy), the Sent Items folder in IMAP is, well, an actual folder and IMAP does folders. No matter which IMAP client you use to connect to your account, ALL of them will see your Sent Items folder. The biggest advantage to IMAP is that multiple e-mail clientss, even freshly installed ones or even if you delete the account and re-add it, will all see the same message store. POP is always a poll protocol. You mean you have to ask for your mail. That's fine with me. IMAP can be polled, like POP, but IMAP can also push, so your local e-mail client gets a new incoming e-mail when it arrives on the server, not whenever the local e-mail client gets around to the next poll interval. I ask for my mail every 10 minutes or so. If I"m in a hurry, I might ask more quickly. Like when a code is coming to let me log in. It's never been a problem. IMAP is more widely available. What difference does widely available make if POP is available to me? All 4 of my mail providers have POP. I've never come across one that doesn't. POP is on the decline. Has been for awhile. Assuming that is true, what difference does that make to me? Less e-mail providers are allowing POP access, just IMAP. Again, what difference does that make to me? With IMAP, you can configure the local client to download headers only. You can do that with POP also. You can decide to download the new e-mails but without their attachments. POP only knows about a mailbox and a message. It cannot I can't remember when I didnt' want an attachment that was sent with mail, except when they used to send viruses as attachments. I avoided them by, on first pass, not retrieving emails bigger than 50K. If one of those was from a friend, I would have done a second pass, but I don't think that ever happened parse the message to determine what parts of it to download. With IMAP, So what? you can selectively decide which MIME parts (attachments) you download. That means you can decide, especially with huge e-mails, if you want to I don't get huge emails. download the entire message to have a local copy, or just the headers, or later retrieve the attachments. With POP, yes, you can set a threshold of how big is a message that doesn't get retrieved, but you cannot see the headers to determine from whom is that message. With POP, you get the entire message or nothing. With POP, you either download the message or not. With IMAP, you can do the same or you can just retrieve headers. In fact, if you configure the IMAP client to just retrieve headers, you don't even have to download the entire message to then delete it (by first retrieving it and then having the client issue a DEL command). What is so hard about configuring a local e-mail account to do IMAP? What is so hard about staying with POP? Claiming POP is simpler is untrue. It is definitely more basic. POP gives you a screwdriver to manager your e-mails. IMAP gives you a toolbox. There is lots POP cannot do that IMAP does. There is nothing that POP does that IMAP cannot do. There is nothing IMAP does that I want to do that POP does not do. IMAP can do POP, and lots more; for example, not having to send himself copies of his sent e-mails. The OP But you pay a price for that, and I don't want to pay it. could have his travelling laptop stolen or lost AND his home PC with its e-mail client destroyed in a house fire At the same time! There's no way my house will burn down when I'm not there to set it afire. and yet all his messages will still be available and organized in an IMAP account ready for whenever and wherever he sets up another IMAP client. A problem can arise with an overly short polling interval with POP. Say someone sends you a huge e-mail, like one with a video of their precious new baby or kittens. With POP, it will doe a RETR[ieve] command to download the message. Oops, the next polling interval comes along. What happens to the current message download? Does it continue? Nope, it gets aborted I don't think so. I've fetched mail on all my acccounts while downloading on one of them was still in progress. That account continues to download. This really is a long email. I see t hat I'm near the end but I have to do something else right now. Let me end by saying I hope this post wasn't directed at me. Surely you didn't think you would change my mind. I've had POP for 25 years and I've known about IMAP for 10 or 15. Because of some of the differences I don't want IMAP. But I'm glad you like it. Okay, I continued reading after all. to restart download the same message all over again. Some users have very short poll times. 1 minute is abusive to the e-mail provider and may violated the usage rules. 5 minutes can be too short since e-mail servers throttle their connections so each gets some response. You don't get their full upstream bandwidth limited by your downstream bandwidth to download the message at highest speed. Your POP client keeps re-downloading the same huge message because the POP client's poll interval is too short. You could make it a lot longer but that means taking longer to get replies from other senders. You don't need polling with IMAP, so a current download doesn't get interrupted. Of course, e-mail was never designed to be a file transfer protocol and e-mail servers are not setup to be file servers yet users abuse e-mail all the time to transfer huge files. Yeah, there are the rare horror stories that users lost all their e-mail Did you hear about VFE? Everyone lost everything. up on the server but that doesn't impugn POP or IMAP. These users want local copies of their e-mails, Of course they do. especially when they do not have an Internet connection. So what? An IMAP client can store local copies, too, for offline access. The Internet isn't everywhere. You aren't using a web browser to access your e-mail account. You're using a local IMAP client that stores its own local copies of your messages that it synchronized to those on the server and in all folders (not just one pseudo-Inbox aka mailbox). You can still read your e-mails while offline whether using POP or IMAP, and you can still include your e-mail client's message store files in your local backups. If disk space is tight, as is often the case with laptops and netbooks, and you're Not for me. willing to forego offline access to your e-mails, IMAP will save on disk space for its message store. By default, IMAP downloads only descriptive info about your messages That's a complication. J.P. said POP was simple and here -- and I glean that there are other places, -- you have to set something to get IMAP to vary from its default. "That's easy", you say? Well the things I do are easy too. which helps when the user has a slow connection. When moving about, high-speed cable or fiber isn't available everywhere there is an Internet connection. Some resort's wifi speed is horrendously slow, even after you pay more for more speed. Arguing POP is better is like saying you want a radio that gets only one I never said POP was better. I said I like it and I don't want IMAP. You OTOH sure seem to be saying that IMAP is better and that puts you on a limb readty to be sawed off. Not by me, however. "To each his own." station. Who buys a radio that gets only one station? That's a nonsense analogy/metaphor. The two things are not analogous. Would you want to decipher which files are for what if they all got piled into a single root folder? Now you are arguing again on the basis of something that I pointed out earlier is not so. Somewhere along the line you got misinformed about POP. Why define rules to send duplicates of your sent messages when IMAP does that without using rules? Because you pay a price for having them do that automatically. For one thing, I only want it done when I'm out of town, not all the time. Which is is usually about 3 weeks out of 52. |
#25
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Operating system not found, or was it?
In alt.windows7.general, on Thu, 28 Feb 2019 03:19:02 -0500, Paul
wrote: micky wrote: In alt.windows7.general, on Sun, 24 Feb 2019 19:44:12 +0200, micky wrote: Running win7, fully updated afaik, on a Dell laptop, model available on request. :-) Thing has been working fine. Hibernate before I left this morning. Turn it on tonight, "No operating system" or "Operating system not found" or words to that effect. 3 times in a row. Next time, F12, choose method of booting (or words to that effect). I choose the hard drive. Immediately it says Resuming Windows, and shows the moving image that win7 shows when it's coming out of hibernation. Computer starts in a typical length of time. What is the problem and what should I do about it? I'm out of town and only have my laptop, a mouse, and a keyboard. The next time I hibernated, it said "Operating system not found" the first time I tried to restart, but the second time it worked fine. Should I be running CHKDSK?? Does your boot menu have two OS entries ? No. https://www.groovypost.com/wp-conten...CD-623x480.png What would happen if the disk with one of those OS entries was missing ? There is only one. Have you, by any chance, cloned the first OS onto a second disk, then updated the BCD with bootrec or something similar ? Maybe the OS did it under No. some failure condition, and included a disk in the boot menu that you never intended for it to "see" ? The next time it starts, it's probably going to attempt to enumerate all the disks in the BCD menu. These are all purely guesses as to where such a message could be coming from. Paul Tonight it gave me the "OS not found" message 4 times, and then I did F12 to get a choice of start-up media. I chose the harddrive and it started right up (The first time. Came out of hibernation.) After it started, it's been running for 3 hours with no trouble. Should I A) be running CHKDSK?? B) be creating a bood CD that just boots and relies on the HDD for all the other files. Booting from the CD was one of the 4 options. I' |
#26
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Operating system not found, or was it?
micky wrote:
In alt.windows7.general, on Thu, 28 Feb 2019 03:19:02 -0500, Paul wrote: micky wrote: In alt.windows7.general, on Sun, 24 Feb 2019 19:44:12 +0200, micky wrote: Running win7, fully updated afaik, on a Dell laptop, model available on request. :-) Thing has been working fine. Hibernate before I left this morning. Turn it on tonight, "No operating system" or "Operating system not found" or words to that effect. 3 times in a row. Next time, F12, choose method of booting (or words to that effect). I choose the hard drive. Immediately it says Resuming Windows, and shows the moving image that win7 shows when it's coming out of hibernation. Computer starts in a typical length of time. What is the problem and what should I do about it? I'm out of town and only have my laptop, a mouse, and a keyboard. The next time I hibernated, it said "Operating system not found" the first time I tried to restart, but the second time it worked fine. Should I be running CHKDSK?? Does your boot menu have two OS entries ? No. https://www.groovypost.com/wp-conten...CD-623x480.png What would happen if the disk with one of those OS entries was missing ? There is only one. Have you, by any chance, cloned the first OS onto a second disk, then updated the BCD with bootrec or something similar ? Maybe the OS did it under No. some failure condition, and included a disk in the boot menu that you never intended for it to "see" ? The next time it starts, it's probably going to attempt to enumerate all the disks in the BCD menu. These are all purely guesses as to where such a message could be coming from. Paul Tonight it gave me the "OS not found" message 4 times, and then I did F12 to get a choice of start-up media. I chose the harddrive and it started right up (The first time. Came out of hibernation.) After it started, it's been running for 3 hours with no trouble. Should I A) be running CHKDSK?? B) be creating a bood CD that just boots and relies on the HDD for all the other files. Booting from the CD was one of the 4 options. I' It could be an issue with the MBR sector or an issue with the System Reserved partition, as much as C: itself. And the System Reserved partition isn't normally visible, which makes running CHKDSK on it a bit tougher. (We're looking for whatever "thing" has the boot flag...) CHKDSK will run on a GUID as an identifier, instead of a drive letter. Try typing bcdedit and it should display the settings. And some of the identifiers in there could be GUIDs. You could also review bcdedit output, and see if any entries are missing their drive letter identifier. Paul |
#27
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Operating system not found, or was it?
micky wrote:
VanguardLH wrote: With IMAP, you can even create folders, like Archive or Craigslist or Work or Friends or whatever organization you like, to move Inbox e-mails into other folders, so your Inbox doesn't become unmanageable. I've And what makes you think you can't do all this with POP? As explained, the folders are synchronized between ALL your clients, or even if you later add or reinstall a client. Yes, as mentioned, you can create folders in the POP *client* but those folders are only known in the message store for THAT client. No other e-mail client will see or can access those folders. Your POP clients will not be synchronized. With IMAP, you can manipulate all folders, not just the Inbox folder. And also with POP. Nope. You can manage ONLY the folders in *that* POP client. Those folders are not synchronized to your online account. Those folders are not synchronized across POP clients. POP has no concept of folders. There are *no* commands in the POP protocol to create, delete, or manage folders. All POP knows about is the mailbox (which your client happens to call the Inbox folder). POP has no concept of folders. Who says? The RFCs that define the e-mail protocols say so. POP has no commands for folders. It only has commands to communicate with a mailbox. Folders you create in your POP client are only defined within its message store and in is presentation of its message store. Those folders are unknown to your online account and cannot by synchronized from your POP client to your online account or to other POP clients. POP is always a poll protocol. You mean you have to ask for your mail. That's fine with me. And why many users are abusive to their e-mail provider by using overly short poll intervals trying to make POP emulate the immediate push available in IMAP. I ask for my mail every 10 minutes or so. If I"m in a hurry, I might ask more quickly. Like when a code is coming to let me log in. It's never been a problem. So you end up issuing manual polls without knowing if there really are any new incoming e-mails to get. You have to instigate the manual poll. IMAP is more widely available. What difference does widely available make if POP is available to me? All 4 of my mail providers have POP. I've never come across one that doesn't. Feel very lucky that you've never had to switch to a different e-mail provider, or use multiples of them. POP is on the decline. Has been for awhile. Assuming that is true, what difference does that make to me? You'll notice I was responding to *Gilliver's* post, not to your starter post or to any of your replies. You don't get to own or dictate any [sub]threads in Usenet. you can selectively decide which MIME parts (attachments) you download. That means you can decide, especially with huge e-mails, if you want to I don't get huge emails. Again, feel lucky your senders are polite in not trying to use e-mail as an FTP protocol. You don't get to dictate what senders send you. What is so hard about configuring a local e-mail account to do IMAP? What is so hard about staying with POP? Again, I was addressing Gilliver's claim that IMAP is harder to setup (by him claiming POP is simpler to setup). IMAP can do POP, and lots more; for example, not having to send himself copies of his sent e-mails. The OP But you pay a price for that, and I don't want to pay it. Um, what price? IMAP client automatically synchronize to the server and to each other. could have his travelling laptop stolen or lost AND his home PC with its e-mail client destroyed in a house fire At the same time! There's no way my house will burn down when I'm not there to set it afire. Who says you have to be on the premises for a fire to start? If you're not there, you can't put out the fire. Never heard of arson? Never had a neighbor's house catch fire? Never been burglarized? Wow, again, you're relying on luck. A problem can arise with an overly short polling interval with POP. Say someone sends you a huge e-mail, like one with a video of their precious new baby or kittens. With POP, it will doe a RETR[ieve] command to download the message. Oops, the next polling interval comes along. What happens to the current message download? Does it continue? Nope, it gets aborted I don't think so. I've fetched mail on all my acccounts while downloading on one of them was still in progress. That account continues to download. Setup a huge e-mail sent to your e-mail account (something that will take several minutes to download). Open the progress dialog in Outlook. Start a poll. While the download is in progress, hit F9 to start another poll. The first one gets aborted and a new one starts. This really is a long email. I see t hat I'm near the end but I have to do something else right now. Let me end by saying I hope this post wasn't directed at me. Surely you didn't think you would change my mind. I've had POP for 25 years and I've known about IMAP for 10 or 15. Because of some of the differences I don't want IMAP. IMAP has more. If you are happy less then stay with less. I had a car that was 24 years old. Didn't need to buy a new car to get new features because I could forego them or adapt the old car to get some of the new features. I only got rid of the old car when it cost far too much in some major repairs. I still have another car that is 17 years old. I added a new car because I did want some of its new features that would've been too expensive to add or unavailable to the old car. As you notice from the name of this newsgroup, I'm also still using Windows 7. Yeah, there are the rare horror stories that users lost all their e-mail Did you hear about VFE? Everyone lost everything. And why some users configure their IMAP accounts to save a local cache of their e-mails instead of having them just online. They sacrifice disk space to provide yet another backup. If VFEmail.net users lost all their e-mail then VFE wasn't doing backups which is inexcusable. Not only should VFE have been saving backups of all accounts but also had redundant backups both on-site and off-site along with redundant data centers. Even the freebie e-mail providers do that. Also, what you describe while alluring that their backups were insufficient was not about having backups but that they got hacked. Well, you're the one saying nothing could happen at your house when you're not there. VFE got hacked. There's no way offline or off-site backups could have been hacked, so VFE has an incomplete backup strategy. Geez, even small software development companies that I've worked on have off-site backup copies sitting at an environmentally protected vault service. Oh, so VFE got hacked. How does that have anything to do with how YOU are "backing up"? So far, you've not mentioned you do any backups. Nobody has to hack your backups to eliminate them. Nature diaster, burglary, malware, and other local causes will get rid of all your emails. Would you want to decipher which files are for what if they all got piled into a single root folder? Now you are arguing again on the basis of something that I pointed out earlier is not so. Earlier in your reply is irrevelant. When composing a post, I cannot foretell what you will say in your reply and in which order you address various points. Somewhere along the line you got misinformed about POP. Have you EVER bothered to actually read the RFCs that define POP and IMAP? Why define rules to send duplicates of your sent messages when IMAP does that without using rules? Because you pay a price for having them do that automatically. For one thing, I only want it done when I'm out of town, not all the time. Which is is usually about 3 weeks out of 52. Oh, more criteria that was not divulged BEFORE my reply (which was to Gilliver, not you). |
#28
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Operating system not found, or was it?
I'm starting to wonder if micky scanned the POST screen to see if his
drive was not recognized (not listed) when he got "OS not found". If the BIOS doesn't find the device on boot, it won't find the boot sector on the device to load the OS boot loader. I've had drives where the bearings went bad. As long as the device was warm, like for a reboot or soon after using it previously, the drive would spin up. When cold, the bearing friction was more than the motor could handle to spin up the platters. I could tell if the suspect HDD spun up or not by listening for the turbine noise as the platters began spinning. However, the fans are often pretty loud and washed out the spin up or turbine noise heard from the HDD, so I had to remove the side panel to have my ear next to the suspect drive. Not hearing its turbine noise on power up along with not listed in the POST screen was when I'd get the OS not found error (because the BIOS couldn't detect and then find the bad HDD). Rapping it when cold with my knuckles wasn't sufficient: the vibration was too dull to break the siezed spindle. I had to use a small ball peen hammer to lightly tap the HDD from the side. The sharper vibration was enough to get the drive to spin up. After running for awhile, I noticed the HDD was hot (back then I just used my hand since I didn't have software monitoring the drive's temperature). Almost burned my fingers on the HDD when I touched it. Could've fried eggs on it. Yep, I found the problem for them. I immediately cloned the drive after getting it spinning. Had to wait awhile for the bad HDD to cool down, so we could swap it out. If the problem occurs again, micky might want to watch the POST screen on a subsequent reboot attempt to make sure his HDD is listed as detected in the POST screen. In the meantime, perhaps he should load a drive monitor to watch its temperature. Note that SMART will not directly tell you a spindle is siezing or a bearing is too worn. It will report the drive's temperature, though. Smart does have the following 2 attributes which might indicate spindle or bearing problems: Spin Up Time (SMART attribute 3) Time needed to spin-up to full RPM. Indicate problem with motor or bearings. Spin Retry Count (SMART attribute 5) Retry count of spin start attempts. Indicate problem with a motor, bearings, or power supply. Had an flaky HDD where HD Sentinel caught a spin-up retry count error. Power options would spin down the HDD when it was idle for over an hour, but then the system was unusable on a later resume. What was in memory worked but anything that accessed the HDD, even the OS, would cause a catastrophic halt since the cold HDD wouldn't spin up or took too long. Since HD Sentinel is a process in memory, it reported when it saw the spin up failure. This time, didn't know if it was a worn bearing, unbalanced spindle, or the motor. I didn't wait but instead did an immediate image backup and replace the HDD afterwhich the flakiness disappeared and my PC has been stable ever since. |
#29
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Operating system not found, or was it?
In alt.windows7.general, on Sat, 02 Mar 2019 18:17:15 -0500, Paul
wrote: micky wrote: In alt.windows7.general, on Thu, 28 Feb 2019 03:19:02 -0500, Paul wrote: micky wrote: In alt.windows7.general, on Sun, 24 Feb 2019 19:44:12 +0200, micky wrote: Running win7, fully updated afaik, on a Dell laptop, model available on request. :-) Thing has been working fine. Hibernate before I left this morning. Turn it on tonight, "No operating system" or "Operating system not found" or words to that effect. 3 times in a row. Next time, F12, choose method of booting (or words to that effect). I choose the hard drive. Immediately it says Resuming Windows, and shows the moving image that win7 shows when it's coming out of hibernation. Computer starts in a typical length of time. What is the problem and what should I do about it? I'm out of town and only have my laptop, a mouse, and a keyboard. The next time I hibernated, it said "Operating system not found" the first time I tried to restart, but the second time it worked fine. Should I be running CHKDSK?? Does your boot menu have two OS entries ? No. https://www.groovypost.com/wp-conten...CD-623x480.png What would happen if the disk with one of those OS entries was missing ? There is only one. Have you, by any chance, cloned the first OS onto a second disk, then updated the BCD with bootrec or something similar ? Maybe the OS did it under No. some failure condition, and included a disk in the boot menu that you never intended for it to "see" ? The next time it starts, it's probably going to attempt to enumerate all the disks in the BCD menu. These are all purely guesses as to where such a message could be coming from. Paul Tonight it gave me the "OS not found" message 4 times, and then I did F12 to get a choice of start-up media. I chose the harddrive and it started right up (The first time. Came out of hibernation.) After it started, it's been running for 3 hours with no trouble. Should I A) be running CHKDSK?? B) be creating a bood CD that just boots and relies on the HDD for all the other files. Booting from the CD was one of the 4 options. It could be an issue with the MBR sector or an issue with the System Reserved partition, as much as C: itself. And the System Reserved partition isn't normally visible, Can't I assign it a partition letter and make it visible? which makes running CHKDSK on it a bit tougher. (We're looking for whatever "thing" has the boot flag...) CHKDSK will run on a GUID as an identifier, instead of a drive letter. Try typing bcdedit Boot configuration data store could not be opened. Access is denied. and it should display the settings. And some of the identifiers in there could be GUIDs. You could also review bcdedit output, and see if any entries are missing their drive letter identifier. Paul |
#30
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Operating system not found, or was it?
micky wrote:
Boot configuration data store could not be opened. Access is denied. Since bcdedit.exe is a console-mode program, did you load the command shell (cmd.exe) with elevated (admin) privileges? You may have to log into an adminstrator-level account in Windows to elevate the command shell. Even then, if UAC is enabled then you have to OK the prompt to allow access. |
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