Questions about the "end of Windows 7"

Char Jackson on Thu, 28 Feb 2019 15:54:02 -0600
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 12:33:29 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Which brings me to the Eternal Issue: where can I find an
"affordable" XP box which is also not on its last legs? Good Will /
Value Village both have "good" prices but caveat emptor.

Does it have to be physical hardware? I'd recommend going virtual, if
possible. Install your choice of hypervisor, then create an XP VM (or
three). I think you'll find it to be a much better choice than running
discrete hardware for each OS.

Yes and no. Separate machines help me track "where am I and what
am I doing?" Much as I have a separate log in and face book account
for the organization I'm now "responsible" in.

And if I crash the alternate machine, I still have the main
machine (or verse vica).
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

"Char Jackson" wrote

|
| Does it have to be physical hardware? I'd recommend going virtual, if
| possible. Install your choice of hypervisor, then create an XP VM (or
| three). I think you'll find it to be a much better choice than running
| discrete hardware for each OS.
|

There are a number of disadvantages to that method.
Expense, complications, and reduced resources, to
begin with. Then there are security issues. For instance,
if you don't want to run Win10 because of the spyware it's
not going to help to run XP in Win10.

It's a great idea for someone like a commercial programmer
who needs to test software on multiple systems. But for
someone who just wants a computer it's ridiculously wasteful.

Mayayana wrote:
"Art Todesco" wrote

When Windows 7 support ends, what are you all going to do? Pay for
additional support? Or what?


There is no paid support. Nothing has changed
from past versions. If you're a corporate customer
with "enterprise" licensing, you can pay through
the nose for security updates. In other words,
if you're the British navy or General Motors, you
m,ight consider it cheaper to pay Microsoft extortion
rates to get patches rather than scrap thousands
of computers. For SOHo people there's no option.

If you pretend to be running a kiosk system you
*might* be able to get updates. That works in XP
by adding a Registry setting, but may not necessarily
work in 7.

There's also the possibility that MS will extend the
support of Win7, as they did with XP. That all depends
on how much pressure there is from corporate customers.
If most are still running 7, which seems to be the case
currently, MS may not want to risk the animosity of
dumping them. On the other hand, they've pushed 10
very hard. So I don't expect that even MS execs know
what will happen at this point. They're probably waiting
to see whether the threat makes companies switch to 10.

Someone mistakenly posted an article recently
about paid support, but they had misread the source
article. Or maybe they didn't. It was posted by one
of the local MS shills, so it may have been meant to
just be more propaganda trying to sell 10. There has
never been optional paid support beyond the final
support date for SOHo customers. Their intention is
to push old product off the cliff as quickly as is
feasible. Irraitional fear of security issues is one of
the few carrots Microsoft have to get people to buy
new computers.

Personally, I'm going to keep using XP as long
as I can and use 7 for testing software or going
to risky websites that require script. 7 is my
sacrificial lamb system. XP is what I use to get
things done.

Same here. I find the incessant permission and ownership and Big Brother in
my face annoyances of Win 7 aggravating.

On 2/28/19 6:13 AM, Art Todesco wrote:
CanÂ*weÂ*stillÂ*goÂ*toÂ*WindowsÂ*10Â*free?

Probably not. And "free" it was not. If yo made ANY hardware
change, you lost your upgrade license and are required to buy
a new 10 license. It is unethical as all hell. New licenses
don't have this issue.

T wrote:
On 2/28/19 6:13 AM, Art Todesco wrote:
Can we still go to Windows 10 free?

Probably not. And "free" it was not. If yo made ANY hardware
change, you lost your upgrade license and are required to buy
a new 10 license. It is unethical as all hell. New licenses
don't have this issue.


Pointing out to the good folks, that you're referring
to your attempts to install licensed Win10 in a VM container.

Which is an entirely different animal than physical machines.

Paul

On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:12:29 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 09:13:01 -0500, Art Todesco
wrote:
When Windows 7 support ends, what are you all going to do? Pay for
additional support? Or what?

Nothing. Windows 7 will continue to work better than 10, just as it does
now.

+1 -- well said!

And Windows "support" is a bad joke anyway -- one buggy update after
another, even if you overlook the bloat and spyware.

I would like to have access to the Windows 10 bash shell, but (a) I
can download the gnu version for Windows, or run Linux in a VM, and
(b) I suspect, based on their track record, that Microsoft managed to
bollix up the Windows 10 bash shell.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...

Art Todesco wrote:
Hi All,
When Windows 7 support ends, what are you all going to do? Pay for
additional support? Or what?

Can we still go to Windows 10 free?

Also, what's the best way to make Windows 10 better? I have a laptop
that came with 10. I've added several "improvements" like Classic
Shell, but it still isn't always good. Is there anything better?

Sorry for all the questions.

I have not installed any w7 upgrades in 2-3 years and don't intend to,
so it makes no difference to me whether support ends or not.
I'll probably buy w10 around the year 2028 or so and keep it for 20 years.

"Mayayana" on Thu, 28 Feb 2019 17:18:54
-0500 typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
"Char Jackson" wrote

|
| Does it have to be physical hardware? I'd recommend going virtual, if
| possible. Install your choice of hypervisor, then create an XP VM (or
| three). I think you'll find it to be a much better choice than running
| discrete hardware for each OS.
|

There are a number of disadvantages to that method.
Expense, complications, and reduced resources, to
begin with. Then there are security issues. For instance,
if you don't want to run Win10 because of the spyware it's
not going to help to run XP in Win10.

It's a great idea for someone like a commercial programmer
who needs to test software on multiple systems. But for
someone who just wants a computer it's ridiculously wasteful.

"Here I am with hardware and software, which has been obsolete
for at least a week, and they want me to waste my money on fripperies
like food, rent, tuition and textbooks!" Me, standing in the computer
lab, looking at the announcement of the release of Turbo Pascal 5.0 (I
think)

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

"Paul in Houston TX" wrote

| I have not installed any w7 upgrades in 2-3 years and don't intend to,
| so it makes no difference to me whether support ends or not.
| I'll probably buy w10 around the year 2028 or so and keep it for 20 years.
|

I, also, have only installed SP1, with one exception that
might interest some people:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&gbv=1&ct=clnk

This is an update to allow more advanced encryption. I
needed to deal with it because I was using the winhttp
library in software. It's a commonly used library because
it's by far the easiest way to programmatically get files
online, such as webpages. The other options are basically
to do it with winsock and an encryption library, the hard
way, or to use the IE libraries, which is a hokey way that's
really just an IE wrapper.

Long story short, this is an easy update to install and
will give you the most advanced encryption for software
that uses winhttp. For win7:

Download page:
http://www.catalog.update.microsoft....px?q=kb3140245

Direct links:

Win7-64-bit:

http://www.download.windowsupdate.co...8e52a0dec0.msu

Win7-32-bit:

http://www.download.windowsupdate.co...74a0654f18.msu

Then add these Rgistry entries:


[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\SecurityProviders\SCHANNEL\Protocols\TLS
1.1\Client]
"DisabledByDefault"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\SecurityProviders\SCHANNEL\Protocols\TLS
1.1\Server]
"DisabledByDefault"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\SecurityProviders\SCHANNEL\Protocols\TLS
1.2\Client]
"DisabledByDefault"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\SecurityProviders\SCHANNEL\Protocols\TLS
1.2\Server]
"DisabledByDefault"=dword:00000000

I've installed the update myself, for my own software,
and can confirm that it works.

Stan Brown wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:12:29 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 09:13:01 -0500, Art Todesco
wrote:
When Windows 7 support ends, what are you all going to do? Pay for
additional support? Or what?
Nothing. Windows 7 will continue to work better than 10, just as it does
now.

+1 -- well said!

And Windows "support" is a bad joke anyway -- one buggy update after
another, even if you overlook the bloat and spyware.

I would like to have access to the Windows 10 bash shell, but (a) I
can download the gnu version for Windows, or run Linux in a VM, and
(b) I suspect, based on their track record, that Microsoft managed to
bollix up the Windows 10 bash shell.


As long as you know what you're getting, it's not a problem.

Bash shell:

1) No GUI because no Xorg. To run Linux Firefox, you need
something like XMing.exe (a Windows X server, third party).

2) GAWK 4.0 uses Linux line endings. Using Windows text files
as source, means adding a "stanza" to your BEGIN clause, to
fix the line ending problem. In other words, the fit and
finish are worse than GNUWIN32 ports.

3) No physical layer access. No /dev/sda. Just the file system
level is there. /mnt/c/users/UserName/Downloads .

Requires turning on a function in Programs and Features : Windows Features.
Bash shell downloads from the Windows Store, may need to flip the
machine into Developer Mode to support the package. So a few details
are needed to get the job done. I don't think the process is any
simpler than it was on Day 1.

No account is needed at the Windows Store to do this...

Paul

Art Todesco wrote:
Hi All,
When Windows 7 support ends, what are you all going to do? Pay for
additional support? Or what?

What support? (If you're a home user, I mean). In which case, it's a moot
point. So I expect some of us will stick with Windows 7, or even Windows
XP, at least for those few of us that like to work on their PC without all
those extra encumberances getting in the way.

"Bill in Co" [email protected] wrote

| What support?

Exactly. Some of us have tried to point out that fallacy
for two long threads, after "Mr. Man-wai Chang" posted
misinformation. Winston even posted the technical details.
But somehow a lot of people believe they'll be able to buy
Win7 extended support.... Maybe there's a business idea there....

Step right up, folks!
I'm offering extended Win7 support for only $199.99 a
month. Just send your credit card number and if
anything goes wrong during your coverage, I'll be
supportive!

On 2019-03-01, Bill in Co [email protected] wrote:
What support? (If you're a home user, I mean). In which case, it's a moot
point. So I expect some of us will stick with Windows 7, or even Windows
XP, at least for those few of us that like to work on their PC without all
those extra encumberances getting in the way.

I would say that as long as you can run an up-to-date antivirus program
and web browser then you're golden with Windows 7.

--
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On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 16:30:44 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote:

"pyotr filipivich" wrote

| Which brings me to the Eternal Issue: where can I find an
| "affordable" XP box which is also not on its last legs? Good Will /
| Value Village both have "good" prices but caveat emptor.
|

If you have a full license you can built it, but I'm
not sure if hardware is still available. At one point
I tried to buy a backup for my AMD FX-8300. (I have
a backup motherboard.) The price had gone way up.
Now I think they may be off the market. I haven't
really been keeping up with developments, but my
sense is that no cPUs now being sold will work
with XP.

Same processor I use.

I bought a ASUS M5A78L-M PLUS/USB3.
Dual boot Win XP/Linux.

Has the perks of USB3 transfer speeds, and the onboard video
is adequate (I don't do games).
Costs around $70 in the US.
Lightning fast. And since it is perfectly adequate with the
latest Linux, it probably works well for Win 7 too.

Whatever it costs, it's better than losing thousands due to
Win 10 bugs.
Space for Win 10 idjits to comment:



.................................................. ...................
[]'s

If you buy used, I'd replace the hard disk. Most other
parts will last for years. On the other hand, Vista came
out in 2007, so any existing machine woul be 12-18
years old. Not encouraging. But I know of at least
3 people still using XP machines I fixed up for them.
For a long time I was taking any computer someone
wanted to get rid of, fixing it, and giving it to someone
else. (People tend to throw them away at the first
sign of trouble, but the problem is usually minor.)
That's how I got my Win7 box.

--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
Nineteen Eighty-Four was a work of FICTION !!!! - Orwell

"Shadow" wrote

| Same processor I use.
|
| I bought a ASUS M5A78L-M PLUS/USB3.

Me, too.

There do seem to be some FX-8300s around from
resellers. Microcenter seems to have dropped all
of the older lines. And the current price is a lot more
than the $65 I paid. $107-145. I might pay that for
insurance if I could buy it right now in a store. I
like to avoid giving any business to resellers like
Amazon or New Egg.