Questions about the "end of Windows 7"

Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-03-01, Bill in Co surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote:
What support? (If you're a home user, I mean). In which case, it's a
moot point. So I expect some of us will stick with Windows 7, or even
Windows XP, at least for those few of us that like to work on their PC
without all those extra encumberances getting in the way.

I would say that as long as you can run an up-to-date antivirus program
and web browser then you're golden with Windows 7.

I hate to say it, but I'm taking a few chances by NOT using the latest
antivirus programs, because I just can't handle all the bloat and slower
performance of the newer versions. That said, I try to play it safe with my
online browsing and emails. :-).

I'm guessing the day will come when I will have no choice but to go to
Windows 7, if for no other reason, due to the browsers not working anymore
on most sites. So I've got a Windows 7 laptop next to me for that, which I
occasionally boot up, just to check for and presence of rust. :-) But the
aggravation of using it, with Win 7 and all its ownership and permissions
baggage getting in my way, especially when using Windows Explorer for any
file operations, is just too much for me. I'm too old for this nonsense.
:-)

"Bill in Co" surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote

| I'm too old for this nonsense.

I'm beginning to realize that may be the best thing
about getting old. You get to say, "I'm too old for
this nonsense" at your discretion. I find myself saying
it more and more.

On 2/28/19 3:37 PM, Paul wrote:
T wrote:
On 2/28/19 6:13 AM, Art Todesco wrote:
Can we still go to Windows 10 free?

Probably not.Â* And "free" it was not.Â* If yo made ANY hardware
change, you lost your upgrade license and are required to buy
a new 10 license.Â* It is unethical as all hell.Â* New licenses
don't have this issue.


Pointing out to the good folks, that you're referring
to your attempts to install licensed Win10 in a VM container.

Which is an entirely different animal than physical machines.

Â*Â* Paul

Oh ya, a breath of air or a barking dog is seen as
a hardware change on a VM. Mounting a USB drive
in the config does it too.

On 3/1/2019 12:39 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-03-01, Bill in Co surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote:
What support? (If you're a home user, I mean). In which case, it's a
moot point. So I expect some of us will stick with Windows 7, or even
Windows XP, at least for those few of us that like to work on their PC
without all those extra encumberances getting in the way.

I would say that as long as you can run an up-to-date antivirus program
and web browser then you're golden with Windows 7.

I hate to say it, but I'm taking a few chances by NOT using the latest
antivirus programs, because I just can't handle all the bloat and slower
performance of the newer versions. That said, I try to play it safe with my
online browsing and emails. :-).

I'm guessing the day will come when I will have no choice but to go to
Windows 7, if for no other reason, due to the browsers not working anymore
on most sites. So I've got a Windows 7 laptop next to me for that, which I
occasionally boot up, just to check for and presence of rust. :-) But the
aggravation of using it, with Win 7 and all its ownership and permissions
baggage getting in my way, especially when using Windows Explorer for any
file operations, is just too much for me. I'm too old for this nonsense.
:-)


Turn off UAC.
Don't try to put stuff in protected directories.
Don't use Windows Explorer.
I prefer Totalcommander, but there are several that claim to be
as good.
You can easily take ownership of anything you want.
You can take ownership of the whole drive.
But I have had issues with circular references in the user's
directories after doing so. But there's a tool to fix that.

People get very excited about tiny changes in the UI.
Put links to everything you use frequently in one directory
and load that page. Or link stuff to the toolbar of startmenu.

If your computer has enough horsepower and available drivers
for your hardware, win7 is a slam dunk.

You can say the same thing for win10 once you get the updates under
control and delete anything that's deletable, especially active
icons on the start page.

Mike wrote:
On 3/1/2019 12:39 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-03-01, Bill in Co surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote:
What support? (If you're a home user, I mean). In which case, it's a
moot point. So I expect some of us will stick with Windows 7, or even
Windows XP, at least for those few of us that like to work on their PC
without all those extra encumberances getting in the way.

I would say that as long as you can run an up-to-date antivirus program
and web browser then you're golden with Windows 7.

I hate to say it, but I'm taking a few chances by NOT using the latest
antivirus programs, because I just can't handle all the bloat and slower
performance of the newer versions. That said, I try to play it safe
with my online browsing and emails. :-).

I'm guessing the day will come when I will have no choice but to go to
Windows 7, if for no other reason, due to the browsers not working
anymore on most sites. So I've got a Windows 7 laptop next to me for
that, which I occasionally boot up, just to check for and presence of
rust. :-) But the aggravation of using it, with Win 7 and all its
ownership and permissions baggage getting in my way, especially when
using Windows Explorer for any file operations, is just too much for me.
I'm too old for this nonsense. :-)


Turn off UAC.
Don't try to put stuff in protected directories.
Don't use Windows Explorer.
I prefer Totalcommander, but there are several that claim to be
as good.
You can easily take ownership of anything you want.
You can take ownership of the whole drive.
But I have had issues with circular references in the user's
directories after doing so. But there's a tool to fix that.

People get very excited about tiny changes in the UI.
Put links to everything you use frequently in one directory
and load that page. Or link stuff to the toolbar of startmenu.

If your computer has enough horsepower and available drivers
for your hardware, win7 is a slam dunk.

You can say the same thing for win10 once you get the updates under
control and delete anything that's deletable, especially active
icons on the start page.

I've done some of those things, but it's still a bit of a PIA. And don't
get me started on the circular references and junction points crapola!

As I've said, life is too short for this obfuscation (at least for me).
OTOH, if you're just using it for work programs and higher level stuff,
maybe it's not such a problem. The problem is when you get down to the file
administration level and it gets in your face. Well, that, and the pathetic
GUI that needs Classic Menu to be even halfway usable. And that it takes
twice as long to boot up in the first place (might as well get a cup of
coffee while its booting up).

Windows XP (and Windows 98SE and Windows 2000) were simply lean and mean,
with nothing ever getting in your way. If you wanted to do something at the
file level, nothing was stopping you. That said, I wouldn't want to go back
to Windows 3.1. :-)

Mayayana wrote:
"Bill in Co" surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote

| I'm too old for this nonsense.

I'm beginning to realize that may be the best thing
about getting old. You get to say, "I'm too old for
this nonsense" at your discretion. I find myself saying
it more and more.

Me too since I'm over 40. I am getting sick of the new stuff these days
that are annoying, buggy, limited, etc. Get off my lawn! :P

--
Quote of the Week: "There's an ant crawling up your back in the nighttime." --They Might Be Giants' Ant Song
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org /
/ /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Bill in Co surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote:
....
Windows XP (and Windows 98SE and Windows 2000) were simply lean and mean,
with nothing ever getting in your way. If you wanted to do something at the
file level, nothing was stopping you. That said, I wouldn't want to go back
to Windows 3.1. :-)

What about DOS? :-P 3.x and 9x were annoying, and easy to crash. NT4 and
up were much better. Even Vista was OK! 10 was OK if it wasn't so dang
annoying.

--
Quote of the Week: "There's an ant crawling up your back in the nighttime." --They Might Be Giants' Ant Song
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org /
/ /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Ant wrote:
Bill in Co surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote:
...
Windows XP (and Windows 98SE and Windows 2000) were simply lean and mean,
with nothing ever getting in your way. If you wanted to do something at
the file level, nothing was stopping you. That said, I wouldn't want to
go back to Windows 3.1. :-)

What about DOS? :-P 3.x and 9x were annoying, and easy to crash. NT4 and
up were much better. Even Vista was OK! 10 was OK if it wasn't so dang
annoying.

Yup, I still have a special place in my heart for DOS. So yeah, I miss DOS
a bit. And Windows 98SE was the last version that had a true DOS fallback
built in. Some days I just like looking at that simple black text screen.
It can be refreshing. Especially in this "climate", but I'll just leave it
at that. :-)

On 3/1/2019 7:30 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Mike wrote:
On 3/1/2019 12:39 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-03-01, Bill in Co surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote:
What support? (If you're a home user, I mean). In which case, it's a
moot point. So I expect some of us will stick with Windows 7, or even
Windows XP, at least for those few of us that like to work on their PC
without all those extra encumberances getting in the way.

I would say that as long as you can run an up-to-date antivirus program
and web browser then you're golden with Windows 7.

I hate to say it, but I'm taking a few chances by NOT using the latest
antivirus programs, because I just can't handle all the bloat and slower
performance of the newer versions. That said, I try to play it safe
with my online browsing and emails. :-).

I'm guessing the day will come when I will have no choice but to go to
Windows 7, if for no other reason, due to the browsers not working
anymore on most sites. So I've got a Windows 7 laptop next to me for
that, which I occasionally boot up, just to check for and presence of
rust. :-) But the aggravation of using it, with Win 7 and all its
ownership and permissions baggage getting in my way, especially when
using Windows Explorer for any file operations, is just too much for me.
I'm too old for this nonsense. :-)


Turn off UAC.
Don't try to put stuff in protected directories.
Don't use Windows Explorer.
I prefer Totalcommander, but there are several that claim to be
as good.
You can easily take ownership of anything you want.
You can take ownership of the whole drive.
But I have had issues with circular references in the user's
directories after doing so. But there's a tool to fix that.

People get very excited about tiny changes in the UI.
Put links to everything you use frequently in one directory
and load that page. Or link stuff to the toolbar of startmenu.

If your computer has enough horsepower and available drivers
for your hardware, win7 is a slam dunk.

You can say the same thing for win10 once you get the updates under
control and delete anything that's deletable, especially active
icons on the start page.

I've done some of those things, but it's still a bit of a PIA. And don't
get me started on the circular references and junction points crapola!

As I've said, life is too short for this obfuscation (at least for me).
OTOH, if you're just using it for work programs and higher level stuff,
maybe it's not such a problem. The problem is when you get down to the file
administration level and it gets in your face. Well, that, and the pathetic
GUI that needs Classic Menu to be even halfway usable. And that it takes
twice as long to boot up in the first place (might as well get a cup of
coffee while its booting up).
Classic menu is an excuse for people who want something to bitch about.
If you sleep your computer, it takes almost no tome to boot. I reboot my
system every few weeks just in case. There are enough memory leaks in the
gazillion apps to make it crash eventually. That's not new with win10.

Windows XP (and Windows 98SE and Windows 2000) were simply lean and mean,
with nothing ever getting in your way. If you wanted to do something at the
file level, nothing was stopping you. That said, I wouldn't want to go back
to Windows 3.1. :-)
A horse drawn buggy was lean and mean. I wouldn't go back there either.
Time marches on. Try to keep up ;-)

Windows 2000 was my favorite OS. I put off XP until I just couldn't do what
I wanted anymore in 2000.
Same for 7 and 10. Average delay was 3 years after introduction.

My 10 start page looks almost the same as my directory/window of program
launchers in 7 and xp and 2000 and 98... I find myself using the window
of program launchers in 10 most of the time anyway.
I haven't used windows
explorer much since MS started messing with it at every turn.
If you haven't tried totalcommander, give the demo a try.
There are several freewares that are similar.
If I didn't already have a license, I'd probably start with one of
the free ones.

Windows 10 as an OS isn't any more difficult than previous versions.
What's different is the MS philosophy of monetizing your computer use
by any means possible. Blocking updates at inopportune times seems to
have been fixed. I've had months where I had 50GB of internet download
that was mostly updates for several computers. Pity the people on
metered internet. but I digress...

So, I have to keep removing junk they download
and block access wherever possible. But I'm old...what else am I gonna
do? Take another nap...yep, that's it another nap...

It would be interesting to see what kind of file administration is causing
you consternation.
Copy, delete, move, open, save. What am I missing?

Mike wrote:
On 3/1/2019 7:30 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Mike wrote:
On 3/1/2019 12:39 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-03-01, Bill in Co surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote:
What support? (If you're a home user, I mean). In which case, it's
a moot point. So I expect some of us will stick with Windows 7, or
even Windows XP, at least for those few of us that like to work on
their PC without all those extra encumberances getting in the way.

I would say that as long as you can run an up-to-date antivirus
program and web browser then you're golden with Windows 7.

I hate to say it, but I'm taking a few chances by NOT using the latest
antivirus programs, because I just can't handle all the bloat and
slower performance of the newer versions. That said, I try to play it
safe with my online browsing and emails. :-).

I'm guessing the day will come when I will have no choice but to go to
Windows 7, if for no other reason, due to the browsers not working
anymore on most sites. So I've got a Windows 7 laptop next to me for
that, which I occasionally boot up, just to check for and presence of
rust. :-) But the aggravation of using it, with Win 7 and all its
ownership and permissions baggage getting in my way, especially when
using Windows Explorer for any file operations, is just too much for
me. I'm too old for this nonsense. :-)


Turn off UAC.
Don't try to put stuff in protected directories.
Don't use Windows Explorer.
I prefer Totalcommander, but there are several that claim to be
as good.
You can easily take ownership of anything you want.
You can take ownership of the whole drive.
But I have had issues with circular references in the user's
directories after doing so. But there's a tool to fix that.

I've already done much of that. It's still an unnecessary nuisance.

People get very excited about tiny changes in the UI.
Put links to everything you use frequently in one directory
and load that page. Or link stuff to the toolbar of startmenu.

If your computer has enough horsepower and available drivers
for your hardware, win7 is a slam dunk.

It's not for me, until necessity prevails. :-)

You can say the same thing for win10 once you get the updates under
control and delete anything that's deletable, especially active
icons on the start page.

I've done some of those things, but it's still a bit of a PIA. And don't
get me started on the circular references and junction points crapola!

As I've said, life is too short for this obfuscation (at least for me).
OTOH, if you're just using it for work programs and higher level stuff,
maybe it's not such a problem. The problem is when you get down to the
file administration level and it gets in your face. Well, that, and the
pathetic GUI that needs Classic Menu to be even halfway usable. And
that it takes twice as long to boot up in the first place (might as well
get a cup of coffee while its booting up).

Classic menu is an excuse for people who want something to bitch about.

No, Classic Menu is there to make it easy to find something, instead of
going on some fishing expedition.

If you sleep your computer, it takes almost no tome to boot. I reboot my
system every few weeks just in case. There are enough memory leaks in the
gazillion apps to make it crash eventually. That's not new with win10.

This Win 7 laptop takes about 4 minutes to fully boot up (the other same
model Win XP laptop takes about 2 minutes). I prefer shutting ALL systems
down at bedtime, for what I consider to be self evident reasons.

Windows XP (and Windows 98SE and Windows 2000) were simply lean and mean,
with nothing ever getting in your way. If you wanted to do something at
the file level, nothing was stopping you. That said, I wouldn't want to
go back to Windows 3.1. :-)

A horse drawn buggy was lean and mean. I wouldn't go back there either.
Time marches on. Try to keep up ;-)

No thank you. (contary to public opinion, newer is not always better).
Want another sterling example? Office 365, and all the subscription
nonsense. No thanks.

Windows 2000 was my favorite OS. I put off XP until I just couldn't do
what I wanted anymore in 2000.
Same for 7 and 10. Average delay was 3 years after introduction.

My 10 start page looks almost the same as my directory/window of program
launchers in 7 and xp and 2000 and 98... I find myself using the window
of program launchers in 10 most of the time anyway.
I haven't used windows
explorer much since MS started messing with it at every turn.
If you haven't tried totalcommander, give the demo a try.
There are several freewares that are similar.
If I didn't already have a license, I'd probably start with one of
the free ones.

I've got several Windows Explorer clones over here, but I generally prefer
jjust using Windows Explorer. I'm, not looking for lots of of bells and
whistles. (Less can be More, sometimes. :-)

Windows 10 as an OS isn't any more difficult than previous versions.
What's different is the MS philosophy of monetizing your computer use
by any means possible. Blocking updates at inopportune times seems to
have been fixed. I've had months where I had 50GB of internet download
that was mostly updates for several computers. Pity the people on
metered internet. but I digress...

But I seem to recall that there are some programs out there that can prevent
those incessant, automatic windows updates. And kudos for that.

So, I have to keep removing junk they download
and block access wherever possible. But I'm old...what else am I gonna
do? Take another nap...yep, that's it another nap...

It would be interesting to see what kind of file administration is causing
you consternation.
Copy, delete, move, open, save. What am I missing?

ALL of that, with access sometimes being denied (and the incessant
permissions and ownership BS), OR even just having to see if what is there,
is really there, or is just an illusion, with all the stupid circular
references and junction points, and some smoke and mirrors. No thanks.
It's not worth the aggravation to me, and is completely avoided by simply
using XP. I'm sure Mayayana can fill ya in. :-)

On Sat, 2 Mar 2019 01:04:39 -0700, "Bill in Co"
surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote:

Mike wrote:
On 3/1/2019 7:30 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Mike wrote:
On 3/1/2019 12:39 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-03-01, Bill in Co surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote:
What support? (If you're a home user, I mean). In which case, it's
a moot point. So I expect some of us will stick with Windows 7, or
even Windows XP, at least for those few of us that like to work on
their PC without all those extra encumberances getting in the way.

I would say that as long as you can run an up-to-date antivirus
program and web browser then you're golden with Windows 7.

I hate to say it, but I'm taking a few chances by NOT using the latest
antivirus programs, because I just can't handle all the bloat and
slower performance of the newer versions. That said, I try to play it
safe with my online browsing and emails. :-).

I'm guessing the day will come when I will have no choice but to go to
Windows 7, if for no other reason, due to the browsers not working
anymore on most sites. So I've got a Windows 7 laptop next to me for
that, which I occasionally boot up, just to check for and presence of
rust. :-) But the aggravation of using it, with Win 7 and all its
ownership and permissions baggage getting in my way, especially when
using Windows Explorer for any file operations, is just too much for
me. I'm too old for this nonsense. :-)


Turn off UAC.
Don't try to put stuff in protected directories.
Don't use Windows Explorer.
I prefer Totalcommander, but there are several that claim to be
as good.
You can easily take ownership of anything you want.
You can take ownership of the whole drive.
But I have had issues with circular references in the user's
directories after doing so. But there's a tool to fix that.

I've already done much of that. It's still an unnecessary nuisance.

People get very excited about tiny changes in the UI.
Put links to everything you use frequently in one directory
and load that page. Or link stuff to the toolbar of startmenu.

If your computer has enough horsepower and available drivers
for your hardware, win7 is a slam dunk.

It's not for me, until necessity prevails. :-)

You can say the same thing for win10 once you get the updates under
control and delete anything that's deletable, especially active
icons on the start page.

I've done some of those things, but it's still a bit of a PIA. And don't
get me started on the circular references and junction points crapola!

As I've said, life is too short for this obfuscation (at least for me).
OTOH, if you're just using it for work programs and higher level stuff,
maybe it's not such a problem. The problem is when you get down to the
file administration level and it gets in your face. Well, that, and the
pathetic GUI that needs Classic Menu to be even halfway usable. And
that it takes twice as long to boot up in the first place (might as well
get a cup of coffee while its booting up).

Classic menu is an excuse for people who want something to bitch about.

No, Classic Menu is there to make it easy to find something, instead of
going on some fishing expedition.

If you sleep your computer, it takes almost no tome to boot. I reboot my
system every few weeks just in case. There are enough memory leaks in the
gazillion apps to make it crash eventually. That's not new with win10.

This Win 7 laptop takes about 4 minutes to fully boot up (the other same
model Win XP laptop takes about 2 minutes). I prefer shutting ALL systems
down at bedtime, for what I consider to be self evident reasons.

For me, my tablets and the Chromebook spend most of their time shut
down, while all PCs remain running 24/7 for obvious reasons.

As for Windows boot time, it stops being an issue if you stop shutting
down so often. I've found that restarting every 3-4 months is fine for
anything up to 8.1. With Win 10, I've never gotten nearly that far.
After a few days, it manages to tell me that it's sick and needs to
rest.

Windows XP (and Windows 98SE and Windows 2000) were simply lean and mean,
with nothing ever getting in your way. If you wanted to do something at
the file level, nothing was stopping you. That said, I wouldn't want to
go back to Windows 3.1. :-)

A horse drawn buggy was lean and mean. I wouldn't go back there either.
Time marches on. Try to keep up ;-)

No thank you. (contary to public opinion, newer is not always better).
Want another sterling example? Office 365, and all the subscription
nonsense. No thanks.

Windows 2000 was my favorite OS. I put off XP until I just couldn't do
what I wanted anymore in 2000.
Same for 7 and 10. Average delay was 3 years after introduction.

My 10 start page looks almost the same as my directory/window of program
launchers in 7 and xp and 2000 and 98... I find myself using the window
of program launchers in 10 most of the time anyway.
I haven't used windows
explorer much since MS started messing with it at every turn.
If you haven't tried totalcommander, give the demo a try.
There are several freewares that are similar.
If I didn't already have a license, I'd probably start with one of
the free ones.

I've got several Windows Explorer clones over here, but I generally prefer
jjust using Windows Explorer. I'm, not looking for lots of of bells and
whistles. (Less can be More, sometimes. :-)

Windows 10 as an OS isn't any more difficult than previous versions.
What's different is the MS philosophy of monetizing your computer use
by any means possible. Blocking updates at inopportune times seems to
have been fixed. I've had months where I had 50GB of internet download
that was mostly updates for several computers. Pity the people on
metered internet. but I digress...

But I seem to recall that there are some programs out there that can prevent
those incessant, automatic windows updates. And kudos for that.

So, I have to keep removing junk they download
and block access wherever possible. But I'm old...what else am I gonna
do? Take another nap...yep, that's it another nap...

It would be interesting to see what kind of file administration is causing
you consternation.
Copy, delete, move, open, save. What am I missing?

ALL of that, with access sometimes being denied (and the incessant
permissions and ownership BS), OR even just having to see if what is there,
is really there, or is just an illusion, with all the stupid circular
references and junction points, and some smoke and mirrors. No thanks.
It's not worth the aggravation to me, and is completely avoided by simply
using XP. I'm sure Mayayana can fill ya in. :-)

You guys recently tried to fill me in, but were unsuccessful. ;-)
You have to really go out of your way to have those kinds of issues.

--

Char Jackson

On 3/1/2019 10:30 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Mike wrote:
On 3/1/2019 12:39 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-03-01, Bill in Co surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote:
What support? (If you're a home user, I mean). In which case, it's a
moot point. So I expect some of us will stick with Windows 7, or even
Windows XP, at least for those few of us that like to work on their PC
without all those extra encumberances getting in the way.

I would say that as long as you can run an up-to-date antivirus program
and web browser then you're golden with Windows 7.

I hate to say it, but I'm taking a few chances by NOT using the latest
antivirus programs, because I just can't handle all the bloat and slower
performance of the newer versions. That said, I try to play it safe
with my online browsing and emails. :-).

I'm guessing the day will come when I will have no choice but to go to
Windows 7, if for no other reason, due to the browsers not working
anymore on most sites. So I've got a Windows 7 laptop next to me for
that, which I occasionally boot up, just to check for and presence of
rust. :-) But the aggravation of using it, with Win 7 and all its
ownership and permissions baggage getting in my way, especially when
using Windows Explorer for any file operations, is just too much for me.
I'm too old for this nonsense. :-)


Turn off UAC.
Don't try to put stuff in protected directories.
Don't use Windows Explorer.
I prefer Totalcommander, but there are several that claim to be
as good.
You can easily take ownership of anything you want.
You can take ownership of the whole drive.
But I have had issues with circular references in the user's
directories after doing so. But there's a tool to fix that.

People get very excited about tiny changes in the UI.
Put links to everything you use frequently in one directory
and load that page. Or link stuff to the toolbar of startmenu.

If your computer has enough horsepower and available drivers
for your hardware, win7 is a slam dunk.

You can say the same thing for win10 once you get the updates under
control and delete anything that's deletable, especially active
icons on the start page.

I've done some of those things, but it's still a bit of a PIA. And don't
get me started on the circular references and junction points crapola!

As I've said, life is too short for this obfuscation (at least for me).
OTOH, if you're just using it for work programs and higher level stuff,
maybe it's not such a problem. The problem is when you get down to the file
administration level and it gets in your face. Well, that, and the pathetic
GUI that needs Classic Menu to be even halfway usable. And that it takes
twice as long to boot up in the first place (might as well get a cup of
coffee while its booting up).

Windows XP (and Windows 98SE and Windows 2000) were simply lean and mean,
with nothing ever getting in your way. If you wanted to do something at the
file level, nothing was stopping you. That said, I wouldn't want to go back
to Windows 3.1. :-)


Having grown up in the Unix world, sometimes I think I would like to go
to Linux. The last Unix system I worked with was on a Sun Workstation.
It has a partial GUI interface (2001 ish). I'm just a little afraid
that some of the programs, drivers, etc. just won't work, so I avoided
the change. Plus my wife probably wouldn't like it. So our main
computer is W7 and the latest laptop is W10. I've tried to make the W10
laptop work better, but I still don't like it.

In message , Bill in Co
writes:
Mike wrote:
On 3/1/2019 12:39 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
[]
I'm guessing the day will come when I will have no choice but to go to
Windows 7, if for no other reason, due to the browsers not working

Same here, though it'll be 10 (or its successor - though maybe that'll
still be called 10). I'm on 7.

anymore on most sites. So I've got a Windows 7 laptop next to me for
that, which I occasionally boot up, just to check for and presence of
rust. :-) But the aggravation of using it, with Win 7 and all its
ownership and permissions baggage getting in my way, especially when
using Windows Explorer for any file operations, is just too much for me.
I'm too old for this nonsense. :-)

Me too, so I ignore it, and just work with the D: partition (more
below).

Turn off UAC.

That really doesn't bother me much - though I'd like the ability to be
able to turn it off for specific prog.s. (Maybe you can, by giving the
shortcuts admin. privileges or something like that - but since most of
the prog.s I use I open and then leave running, one extra click isn't
_that_ much of a pain.)

Don't try to put stuff in protected directories.

I hardly ever do - see below.

Don't use Windows Explorer.
I prefer Totalcommander, but there are several that claim to be
as good.

Like another poster here, I do like to just use Explorer. (But I have
installed Classic Shell, so I suppose you could say I'm not using
Explorer as provided.)

You can easily take ownership of anything you want.

I do.

You can take ownership of the whole drive.

(I haven't gone that far.)

But I have had issues with circular references in the user's
directories after doing so. But there's a tool to fix that.

I don't user the "user's" directories much.

People get very excited about tiny changes in the UI.

Especially when they see no benefit to them. I _sometimes_ give the
benefit of the doubt - saying the changes were made with good
intentions, rather than just for change's sake - but often I conclude
that the situations where the changes actually fix or improve on
something, don't apply in my case.

Put links to everything you use frequently in one directory
and load that page. Or link stuff to the toolbar of startmenu.

I have "pinned": Chrome, Firefox, Brother's Keeper (genealogy),
Everything, Command Prompt, Computer (i. e. Explorer opening at
show-drives level), and Notepad+. I don't seem to have a Quick-start
area on here (but I do on my near-untouched other 7 machine) - not sure
if Classic Shell may be stopping it; I don't miss it, finding the pins
serve the same purpose.

If your computer has enough horsepower and available drivers
for your hardware, win7 is a slam dunk.

I'd agree. Though if my XP machine hadn't died, I'd probably still be
using that. The increased power is nice, though (and yes, I know that's
not a 7-vs-XP thing).

You can say the same thing for win10 once you get the updates under
control and delete anything that's deletable, especially active
icons on the start page.

(No comment - I've not had it on one of my own machines. I don't like
the _idea_ of the updates though.)

I've done some of those things, but it's still a bit of a PIA. And don't
get me started on the circular references and junction points crapola!

I decided long ago, certainly in XP, to use a D: partition for all of my
data, organised completely how _I_ wanted, and to let the OS and
softwares have C: (kept small) for them to play with. I image C:
[Macrium] from time to time against disaster (either software or
hardware), but otherwise rarely look at C: in explorer. (Yes, I do back
up D: [synctoy] too.)

As I've said, life is too short for this obfuscation (at least for me).
OTOH, if you're just using it for work programs and higher level stuff,
maybe it's not such a problem. The problem is when you get down to the file
administration level and it gets in your face. Well, that, and the pathetic

I've not had any problems administering files and directories on D:.

GUI that needs Classic Menu to be even halfway usable. And that it takes

I did find the 7 GUI a bit hard to get on with at first, but soon got
over most of the differences (probably mitigated by having to have used
it at work for some years). I only installed Classic Shell one day
because of one particular thing that I couldn't _easily_ make do what I
wanted; of course, since I haven't _uninstalled_ it, I can't comment
further. I can't remember what the thing was.

twice as long to boot up in the first place (might as well get a cup of
coffee while its booting up).

Yes, it does seem slow. In my case, however, the XP machine tended to
lose wifi connectivity about once a day (don't know if it was a hardware
problem; reboot usually brought it back) and this 7 one doesn't, so I
tend not to reboot it: I think I may have had it up for weeks, though
not _usually_ that long.

Windows XP (and Windows 98SE and Windows 2000) were simply lean and mean,
with nothing ever getting in your way. If you wanted to do something at the
file level, nothing was stopping you. That said, I wouldn't want to go back
to Windows 3.1. :-)

I remember finding XP irritating after 98SElite too, though eventually
came to like it a lot. I think I'm with 7 where I was with XP. 10 (let
alone 8) seems to be a quantum change, but I don't know how much of that
is me getting older.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni, Vidi, Vomit (I came, I saw, I was ill) - , 1998

On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 18:08:45 -0800, Mike wrote:


Don't use Windows Explorer.
I prefer Totalcommander, but there are several that claim to be
as good.



Try Directory Opus. I think it's better than Total Commander.

"Bill in Co" surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote

| ALL of that, with access sometimes being denied (and the incessant
| permissions and ownership BS), OR even just having to see if what is
there,
| is really there, or is just an illusion, with all the stupid circular
| references and junction points, and some smoke and mirrors. No thanks.
| It's not worth the aggravation to me, and is completely avoided by simply
| using XP. I'm sure Mayayana can fill ya in. :-)
|

I seem to have a reputation. Or maybe I'm
just the only person who might back you up. I
think your point about detail level hits the nail on
the head. Most people don't do a lot of things.
Most people use MS Word and a browser. Most
people started using computers at work and
think its normal to be told they have no right to
access their files.

I spent a lot of time fixing Win7. It's still tedious.
It starts out with being slow to boot to it's
grotesquely bloated system and ends up with that
tricky menu option to Shut Down. I have to remember
not to click that if I want it to go on standby. In
between it's death by a thousand ninnies:
"Do you want to scan that USB stick?"

"Do you want to format that USB stick?"

"Warning. Parental controls are disabled."

"Oh, you didn't want running program icons all piled
into a single flyout menu? We thought they looked
cleaner that way. Usability? Usability, shusability.
If you don't like it, Grumpy, then go to Control Panel....
OK, Control Panel here. What, you wanted to see all
the Control Panel items? Whatever for? We think it
looks cleaner this way."

I'm still trying to find a logical interpretation for
Mike's comment about a horse and buggy being
lean and mean, as a comparison to XP. A horse
and buggy is not lean and mean. It's clunky, slow
and expensive. To me a better comparison would
be that XP is a car made before all the bells and
warnings. My latest pickup won't let me switch
gears without the truck running. (Hopefully
I'll never need to push if off the road. I won't be
able to get into Neutral.) And it has a tantrum
if I leave the headlights on. Not unusable, but
certainly overproduced. My last 2004 pickup lasted
11 years. Almost every repair was to a sensor that
didn't exist in my earlier '86 pickup. And I actually
have a "lean and mean" pickup now. I was able
to get it with no electric windows or ignition. No
dashboard computer screen.

We're getting very close to, "I'm sorry, Dave. I
can't start until you attach your three seat belts
and check your helmet strap."

I think Mike's comment is an indicator of the
typical logic that people adopt without realizing it:
Newer is better. Older is outdated. Microsoft depend
on that assumption for their marketing. By that logic,
anyone who doesn't keep their wallet open is a
cranky "holdout".

But I can't stick around talking about this. I need
to go buy some measuring cups. My ladyfriend
decided to throw out my old, "gross" ones and
bought me two new ones. But to save money, the
new ones are made of something like murky
polyethylene instead of clear, hard plastic. They
have no painted markings. And the faint grooved
markings are made to be fashionably inclusive.
Of 4 marking systems only one is ounces, and that's
only on one side. (Since when do Americans care
how many ml are in a recipe?) So now I have to
go find some measuring cups that are actually
usable.