Esata - Sata query

I have a couple pcs here have a dedicated Esata port on motherboard. I
also have a number of Sata hard disks just sitting unsued on a shelf.

I'm wondering if it's ok to run a standard usb cable from the Esata
connector out the back of a pc and connect it to a regular Sata drive.
I'd of course give it it's own power supply using a "special" cable I
already have.

pjp wrote:
I have a couple pcs here have a dedicated Esata port on motherboard. I
also have a number of Sata hard disks just sitting unsued on a shelf.

I'm wondering if it's ok to run a standard usb cable from the Esata
connector out the back of a pc and connect it to a regular Sata drive.
I'd of course give it it's own power supply using a "special" cable I
already have.

Aren't the SATA/eSATA cables completely different than the USB cables? The
ones I have most certainly are, just looking at the connectors.

pjp wrote:
I have a couple pcs here have a dedicated Esata port on motherboard. I
also have a number of Sata hard disks just sitting unsued on a shelf.

I'm wondering if it's ok to run a standard usb cable from the Esata
connector out the back of a pc and connect it to a regular Sata drive.
I'd of course give it it's own power supply using a "special" cable I
already have.


ESATA is the ******* child of standards.

People have been screwing around with it to such
a point, I couldn't tell you what additional interfaces
they've added to the connector.

You see, they *do* put USB pins on at least one flavor.
Just for the confusion it will cause.

https://sites.google.com/site/displa...esata_pins.jpg

"EUHP pinout"

USB ESATA EARS-for-power

P1 +5V P5 GND P12 VBUS (may be +12V or +5V!)
P2 D- P6 TX+ P13 GND
P3 D+ P7 TX-
P4 GND P8 GND
P9 RX+
P10 RX-
P11 GND

original
pins as
subset

There might be *at least* four or five connector
types for these. Plus, you'll need your voltmeter
to check what is on P12 and whether it's the
right thing for your adapter. (I wouldn't use it
without checking first what is on P12.)

Look in the barrel with a strong light, to
start your journey of discovery.

While the Wikipedia article on ESATA is better than
nothing, I don't think it has seriously addressed
all the variants. I kept seeing little blurbs where
small companies seemed to be messing around, and the
SATAIO page made no mention of the options at all.

P5-P11 Original pinout
P5-P11 + P12-P13 Ears +5V for 2.5 drives
P5-P11 + P12-P13 Ears +12V for 3.5 drives
P5-P11 + P12-P13 Ears + USB2 etc
P5-P11 + P12-P13 Ears + USB2 etc

You won't catch me using one of those ports!
Not interested.

If you use a seven pin ESATA to SATA cable (if you
can find one), then that solves the "what if P12
shorts to something" problem.

Paul

On 3/7/19 11:27 AM, pjp wrote:
I have a couple pcs here have a dedicated Esata port on motherboard. I
also have a number of Sata hard disks just sitting unsued on a shelf.

Just run a esata to sata cable to your drive. Star Tech has them
You will need a separate power cable. I do this all the time to
transfer data from old drives to new drives.

I'm wondering if it's ok to run a standard usb cable from the Esata
connector out the back of a pc and connect it to a regular Sata drive.
I'd of course give it it's own power supply using a "special" cable I
already have.

square peg, round hole.

You could always put your drive in an external carrier
with an USB interface, then run a USB cable to a usb port
on your computer

The only external carrier I like is the Rosewill RX304-APU3-35B.
Comes with a esata cable and usb 3 cable. Has a temperature
controlled fan too

For temporary transfers, I use an adapter from Star Tech.
Comes with a power supply too. Does sata, ide, usb(3)

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
You see, they *do* put USB pins on at least one flavor.
Just for the confusion it will cause.
[]
One of the three rectangular connectors on this laptop does indeed look
as if it's both USB and ESATA. (The other two are just USB.)

I've used it _as_ USB, and it seems to work fine - the only difference
from other USB connections being that it feels slightly different on
insertion. I haven't tried it as ESATA as I don't have any (E)SATA
peripherals. (I have the odd SATA drive, but I've always felt ESATA
isn't the same as SATA.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I hate people who quote Shakespeare at you but are proud that they can't add
up. Stupid People. - Carol Vorderman (Radio Times, 1-7 March 2003)

In article , says...

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
You see, they *do* put USB pins on at least one flavor.
Just for the confusion it will cause.
[]
One of the three rectangular connectors on this laptop does indeed look
as if it's both USB and ESATA. (The other two are just USB.)

Yes, two in particular are Dell pc's and what's labelled eSata looks
identical to a Sata port. They're almost beside each other. I know
difference for USB btw.

I've used it _as_ USB, and it seems to work fine - the only difference
from other USB connections being that it feels slightly different on
insertion. I haven't tried it as ESATA as I don't have any (E)SATA
peripherals. (I have the odd SATA drive, but I've always felt ESATA
isn't the same as SATA.)

In article , lid says...

On 3/7/19 11:27 AM, pjp wrote:
I have a couple pcs here have a dedicated Esata port on motherboard. I
also have a number of Sata hard disks just sitting unsued on a shelf.

Just run a esata to sata cable to your drive. Star Tech has them
You will need a separate power cable. I do this all the time to
transfer data from old drives to new drives.

I'm wondering if it's ok to run a standard usb cable from the Esata
connector out the back of a pc and connect it to a regular Sata drive.
I'd of course give it it's own power supply using a "special" cable I
already have.

square peg, round hole.

You could always put your drive in an external carrier
with an USB interface, then run a USB cable to a usb port
on your computer

The only external carrier I like is the Rosewill RX304-APU3-35B.
Comes with a esata cable and usb 3 cable. Has a temperature
controlled fan too

For temporary transfers, I use an adapter from Star Tech.
Comes with a power supply too. Does sata, ide, usb(3)

I have 6 or so externals and portables. I also have a cable accepts old
ide and Sata drives (and I have a stack of bare bones drives to use with
it). That cable and the spare drives is what got me thinking about the
unused port on the motherboard so I asked

In message , pjp
writes:
In article , says...

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
You see, they *do* put USB pins on at least one flavor.
Just for the confusion it will cause.
[]
One of the three rectangular connectors on this laptop does indeed look
as if it's both USB and ESATA. (The other two are just USB.)

Yes, two in particular are Dell pc's and what's labelled eSata looks
identical to a Sata port. They're almost beside each other. I know
difference for USB btw.

So do I. This connector on my (Toshiba Portégé) laptop appears to be
_both_ - presumably to just save space. I presume it has both lots of
connections, and whatever you plug into it - either a USB type A plug,
or an ESATA cable - only makes contact with one of them.

I've used it _as_ USB, and it seems to work fine - the only difference
from other USB connections being that it feels slightly different on
insertion. I haven't tried it as ESATA as I don't have any (E)SATA
peripherals. (I have the odd SATA drive, but I've always felt ESATA
isn't the same as SATA.)


--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

it is easy to make up a lie, but it can take much more time and effort to
convincingly refute it. - Patrick Cockburn, i, 2016-9-24

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , pjp
writes:
In article , says...

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
You see, they *do* put USB pins on at least one flavor.
Just for the confusion it will cause.
[]
One of the three rectangular connectors on this laptop does indeed look
as if it's both USB and ESATA. (The other two are just USB.)

Yes, two in particular are Dell pc's and what's labelled eSata looks
identical to a Sata port. They're almost beside each other. I know
difference for USB btw.

So do I. This connector on my (Toshiba Portégé) laptop appears to be
_both_ - presumably to just save space. I presume it has both lots of
connections, and whatever you plug into it - either a USB type A plug,
or an ESATA cable - only makes contact with one of them.

Can someone show me a picture of an eSATA - USB connector? Is there even a
unique standard for such a thing? Just curious.

In article ,
[email protected] says...

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , pjp
writes:
In article , says...

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
You see, they *do* put USB pins on at least one flavor.
Just for the confusion it will cause.
[]
One of the three rectangular connectors on this laptop does indeed look
as if it's both USB and ESATA. (The other two are just USB.)

Yes, two in particular are Dell pc's and what's labelled eSata looks
identical to a Sata port. They're almost beside each other. I know
difference for USB btw.

So do I. This connector on my (Toshiba Portégé) laptop appears to be
_both_ - presumably to just save space. I presume it has both lots of
connections, and whatever you plug into it - either a USB type A plug,
or an ESATA cable - only makes contact with one of them.

Can someone show me a picture of an eSATA - USB connector? Is there even a
unique standard for such a thing? Just curious.

Yea, I'd think they'd be available somewhere. Otherwise only four wires
so shouldn't be any problem to "roll your own".

Bill in Co wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , pjp
writes:
In article , says...
In message , Paul
writes:
[]
You see, they *do* put USB pins on at least one flavor.
Just for the confusion it will cause.
[]
One of the three rectangular connectors on this laptop does indeed look
as if it's both USB and ESATA. (The other two are just USB.)

Yes, two in particular are Dell pc's and what's labelled eSata looks
identical to a Sata port. They're almost beside each other. I know
difference for USB btw.
So do I. This connector on my (Toshiba Portégé) laptop appears to be
_both_ - presumably to just save space. I presume it has both lots of
connections, and whatever you plug into it - either a USB type A plug,
or an ESATA cable - only makes contact with one of them.

Can someone show me a picture of an eSATA - USB connector? Is there even a
unique standard for such a thing? Just curious.

I can't get a picture of all of them in one place.

https://www.addonics.com/technologies/euhp.php

The hybrid port is taller than the plain ESATA.
Presumably the hybrid port, the ESATA cable plugs
into the top, while the USB plugs into the bottom,
in a sense.

Addonics might have been one of the web sites pushing this.

Paul

Paul wrote:
Bill in Co wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , pjp
writes:
In article , says...
In message , Paul
writes:
[]
You see, they *do* put USB pins on at least one flavor.
Just for the confusion it will cause.
[]
One of the three rectangular connectors on this laptop does indeed
look as if it's both USB and ESATA. (The other two are just USB.)

Yes, two in particular are Dell pc's and what's labelled eSata looks
identical to a Sata port. They're almost beside each other. I know
difference for USB btw.
So do I. This connector on my (Toshiba Portégé) laptop appears to be
_both_ - presumably to just save space. I presume it has both lots of
connections, and whatever you plug into it - either a USB type A plug,
or an ESATA cable - only makes contact with one of them.

Can someone show me a picture of an eSATA - USB connector? Is there
even a unique standard for such a thing? Just curious.

I can't get a picture of all of them in one place.

https://www.addonics.com/technologies/euhp.php

The hybrid port is taller than the plain ESATA.
Presumably the hybrid port, the ESATA cable plugs
into the top, while the USB plugs into the bottom,
in a sense.

Addonics might have been one of the web sites pushing this.

Paul

That is one weird looking connector. It will be interesting to see if this
ever becomes mainstream. I think I'd prefer separate connectors, but maybe
I'm being conservative and old fashioned. I think the eSata ones were a bit
(slightly) flimsy at it is, however.

Bill in Co wrote:

That is one weird looking connector. It will be interesting to see if this
ever becomes mainstream. I think I'd prefer separate connectors, but maybe
I'm being conservative and old fashioned. I think the eSata ones were a bit
(slightly) flimsy at it is, however.

The original ESATA intention was metal to metal contact
and a 5000 cycle rating. The same rating as USB metal connectors.

The internal SATA connector system, is plastic and
the rating is 50 cycles. Although my tests in the
Test machine (swapping drives all the time), is now
many times over that figure. Those connector ratings
are probably a "guaranteed minimum", but I don't know
what "mis-mated" conditions they apply to test that
out.

The usage of metal barrels or surfaces for capture,
makes a big difference to the spec number.

Paul

On 3/7/2019 8:28 PM, Paul wrote:
Bill in Co wrote:

That is one weird looking connector.Â* It will be interesting to see if
this ever becomes mainstream.Â* I think I'd prefer separate connectors,
but maybe I'm being conservative and old fashioned.Â* I think the eSata
ones were a bit (slightly) flimsy at it is, however.

The original ESATA intention was metal to metal contact
and a 5000 cycle rating. The same rating as USB metal connectors.

The internal SATA connector system, is plastic and
the rating is 50 cycles. Although my tests in the
Test machine (swapping drives all the time), is now
many times over that figure. Those connector ratings
are probably a "guaranteed minimum", but I don't know
what "mis-mated" conditions they apply to test that
out.

The usage of metal barrels or surfaces for capture,
makes a big difference to the spec number.

Â*Â* Paul

Reliability is an issue, but I think the driving force was
EMC compatibility. The ESATA contact arrangement is the
same as SATA, but the shape of the plastic prevents plugging it in.
The ESATA cable has better shielding and is approved for use outside
the case.

The electrical characteristics of the internal SATA cable may differ
from the external ESATA.
ON this Optiplex 780, I can read/write a drive via the ESATA port,
but I have not been able to boot windows from it.

It is possible to snake a SATA cable outside the box and use it with
an external power supply. I'd caution against doing that. It violates
EMC regulations, but more importantly, it is vulnerable to static zap.

I haven't found ESATA to be particularly fast compared to USB3, but
that may be because of old motherboard and hard drives.
ESATA is a pain to disconnect. USB just requires clicking on 'eject'.

A complete packaged external solution that stays connected works OK.

Paul wrote:
Bill in Co wrote:

That is one weird looking connector. It will be interesting to see if
this ever becomes mainstream. I think I'd prefer separate connectors,
but maybe I'm being conservative and old fashioned. I think the eSata
ones were a bit (slightly) flimsy at it is, however.

The original ESATA intention was metal to metal contact
and a 5000 cycle rating. The same rating as USB metal connectors.

The internal SATA connector system, is plastic and
the rating is 50 cycles. Although my tests in the
Test machine (swapping drives all the time), is now
many times over that figure. Those connector ratings
are probably a "guaranteed minimum", but I don't know
what "mis-mated" conditions they apply to test that
out.

The usage of metal barrels or surfaces for capture,
makes a big difference to the spec number.

Paul

In retrospect, I misspoke, and was thinking of the SATA connector found on
the internal SATA drive, which I thought was a bit flimsy. The eSATA
connector on the end of the cable I've got looks rugged enough. Sorry!