High case temperatures

My computer was doing an image save of my hard drive to a second hard drive. (Gparted)

I have done that many times.

But I heard some unusual sounds coming from my computer case.

So I took off one of the side panels and could feel some heat that seemed uncharacteristically high.

I put a thermometer in and it read around 100 degrees F.

After the process, the temp went to around 80 degrees.

Do I need to be concerned?

Thanks,
Andy

https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/

AK wrote:
My computer was doing an image save of my hard drive to a second hard drive. (Gparted)

I have done that many times.

But I heard some unusual sounds coming from my computer case.

So I took off one of the side panels and could feel some heat that seemed uncharacteristically high.

I put a thermometer in and it read around 100 degrees F.

After the process, the temp went to around 80 degrees.

Do I need to be concerned?

Thanks,
Andy

https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/

Find the fan that isn't spinning ?

Does your power supply provide the only exhaust on
the back of the PC ? Is there a separate fan for venting
hot air ? Is there an intake vent near the front of the PC ?

Paul

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 21:02:31 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:

My computer was doing an image save of my hard drive to a second hard drive. (Gparted)

I have done that many times.

But I heard some unusual sounds coming from my computer case.

So I took off one of the side panels and could feel some heat that seemed uncharacteristically high.

I put a thermometer in and it read around 100 degrees F.

After the process, the temp went to around 80 degrees.

Do I need to be concerned?

Thanks,
Andy

https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/

I used to build all of my computers and one of those cheap
indoor/outdoor thermometers was a great tool (the one with a probe on
a 3 foot wire)
You could put the probe in various places in the case, close it up and
run some hard hitting software to see where the hot spots were. Then a
little ducting and maybe some extra fans would bring the interior
temps down. I used to shoot for max 10-15 degrees above ambient on the
main unit that was out on the bench. Usually that was right over the
display processor chip. After seeing some commercial high performance
machines, I tried to get the air coming off the CPU out by the
shortest route.
I also found the power supply fan stopped being enough about the time
the first Pentium came out.

AK wrote:
My computer was doing an image save of my hard drive to a second hard drive. (Gparted)

I have done that many times.

But I heard some unusual sounds coming from my computer case.

So I took off one of the side panels and could feel some heat that seemed uncharacteristically high.

I put a thermometer in and it read around 100 degrees F.

After the process, the temp went to around 80 degrees.

Do I need to be concerned?

Thanks,
Andy

https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/

IMO, 100F / ~38C is ok.
50C is not ok.
I never put the side of the case on mine.
Everything has it's own fan.
Seven finger slicers in all
Plus liquid cooling for the CPU.

"AK" wrote

|
| I put a thermometer in and it read around 100 degrees F.
|
Try this:

https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

Unless your system is very old it should work. I'm
not sure offhand, but I think something like 140 is
not unusual for CPU. 100 for hard disks. If you're
worried, look up specs for the actual product. But
sticking a thermometer into the case doesn't tell
you anything. Especially since we don't know whether
the room was 65F or 95F.

If you don't have an extra case fan, that's a good
idea. They're cheap. Most cases will have brackets for
a fan. If not you can just bolt it to the back grid with
the holes. Point it blowing out, so it wll pull air past the
hard disks. Some cases also provide a "chimney" on the
side panel, so you can draw air directly from the board.

When buying a fan there are two basic options. One
is a 3-pin connector that goes directly to the board.
That's good, but you need to make sure you have a
plug for it. (Typically near the CPU.) The other kind uses
the standard 4-pin power connnector coming from the power
supply. That's also fine, but in some cases it might result
in the fan running when the computer is set to sleep.

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 00:27:18, Paul wrote:
AK wrote:
My computer was doing an image save of my hard drive to a second hard
drive. (Gparted)
I have done that many times.
But I heard some unusual sounds coming from my computer case.
So I took off one of the side panels and could feel some heat that
seemed uncharacteristically high.
I put a thermometer in and it read around 100 degrees F.
After the process, the temp went to around 80 degrees.

80-100 *F* I don't think would worry me that much.

Do I need to be concerned?

Worth looking into the "unusual sounds".

Thanks,
Andy
https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/

Find the fan that isn't spinning ?

And/or the vent/filter/whatever that's even partially blocked.

Does your power supply provide the only exhaust on
the back of the PC ? Is there a separate fan for venting
hot air ? Is there an intake vent near the front of the PC ?

Especially if it's low down, so likely to pick up more carpet fluff.

Paul
John
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. And I'm not getting out
of the kitchen for a long time yet. - Petula Clark (at 83), RT 2016/10/22-28

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 00:27:18, Paul wrote:
AK wrote:
My computer was doing an image save of my hard drive to a second hard
drive. (Gparted)
I have done that many times.
But I heard some unusual sounds coming from my computer case.
So I took off one of the side panels and could feel some heat that
seemed uncharacteristically high.
I put a thermometer in and it read around 100 degrees F.
After the process, the temp went to around 80 degrees.

80-100 *F* I don't think would worry me that much.

Do I need to be concerned?

Worth looking into the "unusual sounds".

Thanks,
Andy
https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/

Find the fan that isn't spinning ?

And/or the vent/filter/whatever that's even partially blocked.

Does your power supply provide the only exhaust on
the back of the PC ? Is there a separate fan for venting
hot air ? Is there an intake vent near the front of the PC ?

Especially if it's low down, so likely to pick up more carpet fluff.

Paul
John

"So I took off one of the side panels and could feel
some heat that seemed uncharacteristically high."

When someone mentions a "hot cloud" effect, regardless of
temperature, that tells me there's no airflow in the computer
case. Take the side off and look. How is the ventilation
supposed to work ? What is missing from the setup ? Does
the setup make sense ? Is there a predominant front to back
cooling path, versus a confused mess with 7 fans pointing
in all directions ? While a BTX casing might have the
directions modified for front exhaust, you can still see
the "plan" on OEM machines, what the cooling is supposed to do.
There should be a predominant direction, not fans fighting
with one another for supremacy.

I have a CPU with a 156W heat output at max. Is there
a hot cloud behavior in the case ? Not that I can detect.
I have had cases with a hot cloud, even though the CPU
drew less power (95W max) and back in those days, the CPU power
used came in at the rated TDP or lower. On really modern
equipment, you'd be better off monitoring with a Kill-O-Watt,
to understand just how much the power consumption shoots up
under load. (The Kill-O-Watt won't lie.)

The hot air from the ATX PSU exhaust has largely disappeared,
with the advent of 80+ ATX power supplies (more efficient,
less waste heat in the PSU itself). The idle power on computers
has dropped a bit. An 8800GTX from idle to gaming, had only
a ratio of 2:1 on power (it didn't save a lot of power when
it dropped back to idle). Modern video cards can have a
ratio of 10:1 to 15:1 or so, with the clock dropping to 100MHz
if nothing is going on. And this behavior helps manage the heat
better. Less chance of contributing to a heat cloud.
But not zero chance.

It's a job for a calibrated eyeball. Can you justify the behavior ?
Is something amiss in there ? On some video cards, it can be
pretty hard to get a mirror in there so you can visually verify
the video card fan is still working. Some of the others are
easier to check.

If the case has filters (one of my cases has a "window screen"
in the front), make sure the filter isn't blocked with dust.

The worst plugging of a computer I've ever seen, involved several pounds
of human hair. (The machine operator had long hair, and seemed to
shed like a puppy :-) It's an unbelievable amount of hair for
a human to lose and not be bald.) I checked that computer even
though it "wasn't mine" and a funny noise was coming from it.
"Strangely muffled" fan noise was the giveaway. The computer
was fine, because it had a bipolar (ECL!) CPU and could take the heat.
Could run at 150C without losing its mind. The heatsink on it was
a rather large milled aluminum assembly with three fans for cooling.

If something you see doesn't add up, check.

You can use the case cooling equation, to estimate the CFM rating
of the exhaust fan needed. A 7C (10F) delta T is a good target
for a well cooled computer. Some computers have close to zero
air circulation near the hard drive, and that's something I would
try to improve if possible. One of the drive positions in my
other computer is in an airflow shadow and the drive ends up
warmer than the other drives.

But without a hand calculator, just your calibrated eyeball can
spot a problem where the behavior can be improved.

And don't be over-aggressive cleaning fan blades... You can
easily damage some brands of cooling fans, just by handling
them (bearing damage on spring-loaded style setups).

Paul

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 13:15:14, Paul wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 00:27:18, Paul wrote:
AK wrote:
My computer was doing an image save of my hard drive to a second
hard drive. (Gparted)
I have done that many times.
But I heard some unusual sounds coming from my computer case.
So I took off one of the side panels and could feel some heat that
seemed uncharacteristically high.
I put a thermometer in and it read around 100 degrees F.
After the process, the temp went to around 80 degrees.
80-100 *F* I don't think would worry me that much.

Do I need to be concerned?

The _impression_ given was that it was different from what AK had been
used to, though he didn't actually say that for sure.
[]
As such, I'd suspect - rather than a design fault - that something has
changed. I'd say most likely a filter, vent, or fan itself being
partially clogged; next probability an actually failing fan (possibly
caused by overloading due to partial blockage); then (and a long way
down), a failure in fan _controlling_ hardware/software.

It'd be good to look at the temperature sensors (with speedfan or
similar), at idle and while doing various things; however, unless what
these have been saying for some time is known, it'll be less useful -
and most people _don't_ think to look at these (or lots of other
parameters!) when things aren't going wrong.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush.
It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.
-Robert Maynard Hutchins, educator (1899-1977)

On Monday, July 6, 2020 at 12:15:17 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 00:27:18, Paul wrote:
AK wrote:
My computer was doing an image save of my hard drive to a second hard
drive. (Gparted)
I have done that many times.
But I heard some unusual sounds coming from my computer case.
So I took off one of the side panels and could feel some heat that
seemed uncharacteristically high.
I put a thermometer in and it read around 100 degrees F.
After the process, the temp went to around 80 degrees.

80-100 *F* I don't think would worry me that much.

Do I need to be concerned?

Worth looking into the "unusual sounds".

Thanks,
Andy
https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/

Find the fan that isn't spinning ?

And/or the vent/filter/whatever that's even partially blocked.

Does your power supply provide the only exhaust on
the back of the PC ? Is there a separate fan for venting
hot air ? Is there an intake vent near the front of the PC ?

Especially if it's low down, so likely to pick up more carpet fluff.

Paul
John

"So I took off one of the side panels and could feel
some heat that seemed uncharacteristically high."

When someone mentions a "hot cloud" effect, regardless of
temperature, that tells me there's no airflow in the computer
case. Take the side off and look. How is the ventilation
supposed to work ? What is missing from the setup ? Does
the setup make sense ? Is there a predominant front to back
cooling path, versus a confused mess with 7 fans pointing
in all directions ? While a BTX casing might have the
directions modified for front exhaust, you can still see
the "plan" on OEM machines, what the cooling is supposed to do.
There should be a predominant direction, not fans fighting
with one another for supremacy.

I have a CPU with a 156W heat output at max. Is there
a hot cloud behavior in the case ? Not that I can detect.
I have had cases with a hot cloud, even though the CPU
drew less power (95W max) and back in those days, the CPU power
used came in at the rated TDP or lower. On really modern
equipment, you'd be better off monitoring with a Kill-O-Watt,
to understand just how much the power consumption shoots up
under load. (The Kill-O-Watt won't lie.)

The hot air from the ATX PSU exhaust has largely disappeared,
with the advent of 80+ ATX power supplies (more efficient,
less waste heat in the PSU itself). The idle power on computers
has dropped a bit. An 8800GTX from idle to gaming, had only
a ratio of 2:1 on power (it didn't save a lot of power when
it dropped back to idle). Modern video cards can have a
ratio of 10:1 to 15:1 or so, with the clock dropping to 100MHz
if nothing is going on. And this behavior helps manage the heat
better. Less chance of contributing to a heat cloud.
But not zero chance.

It's a job for a calibrated eyeball. Can you justify the behavior ?
Is something amiss in there ? On some video cards, it can be
pretty hard to get a mirror in there so you can visually verify
the video card fan is still working. Some of the others are
easier to check.

If the case has filters (one of my cases has a "window screen"
in the front), make sure the filter isn't blocked with dust.

The worst plugging of a computer I've ever seen, involved several pounds
of human hair. (The machine operator had long hair, and seemed to
shed like a puppy :-) It's an unbelievable amount of hair for
a human to lose and not be bald.) I checked that computer even
though it "wasn't mine" and a funny noise was coming from it.
"Strangely muffled" fan noise was the giveaway. The computer
was fine, because it had a bipolar (ECL!) CPU and could take the heat.
Could run at 150C without losing its mind. The heatsink on it was
a rather large milled aluminum assembly with three fans for cooling.

If something you see doesn't add up, check.

You can use the case cooling equation, to estimate the CFM rating
of the exhaust fan needed. A 7C (10F) delta T is a good target
for a well cooled computer. Some computers have close to zero
air circulation near the hard drive, and that's something I would
try to improve if possible. One of the drive positions in my
other computer is in an airflow shadow and the drive ends up
warmer than the other drives.

But without a hand calculator, just your calibrated eyeball can
spot a problem where the behavior can be improved.

And don't be over-aggressive cleaning fan blades... You can
easily damage some brands of cooling fans, just by handling
them (bearing damage on spring-loaded style setups).

Paul

Dear Paul,

You must be a detail oriented person like me. :-)

That is a compliment.

I previously placed a filter over the intake to minimize the dust buildup on the motherboard etc.

But I removed it thinking it impeded air flow.

Andy

AK wrote:


Dear Paul,

You must be a detail oriented person like me. :-)

That is a compliment.

I previously placed a filter over the intake to minimize the dust buildup on the motherboard etc.

But I removed it thinking it impeded air flow.

Andy

Using a filter is something you have to check
frequently, to keep it from clogging up.

You must have some sort of idea as to how the
air flows through your PC. And which fan(s) you're
relying on.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/a...-17-png.71169/

Paul

"AK" wrote

| I previously placed a filter over the intake to minimize the dust buildup
on the motherboard etc.
|
| But I removed it thinking it impeded air flow.
|

I use filters. I've got the power supply fan plus
a larger one (4"?) at the back of the case. On the
front and side, behind the grilles, I put a low
resistance furnace filter. It's a large green pad
with carbon backing and a plastic grille. Both the
pad and grille are easy to cut to size. I attach them
with plastic ties. Typically they can be cleaned by just
running a vacuum cleaner over the outside of the box.

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On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 2:07:31 AM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
AK wrote:


Dear Paul,

You must be a detail oriented person like me. :-)

That is a compliment.

I previously placed a filter over the intake to minimize the dust buildup on the motherboard etc.

But I removed it thinking it impeded air flow.

Andy

Using a filter is something you have to check
frequently, to keep it from clogging up.

You must have some sort of idea as to how the
air flows through your PC. And which fan(s) you're
relying on.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/a...-17-png.71169/

Paul

I have 2 fans, one for the case and one for the CPU.

Andy