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#16
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Buying a new PC
On 6/19/20 9:19 AM, this is what Char Jackson wrote:
I'm not saying you need 64GB, of course. I only have that much because I need to run multiple VMs simultaneously. okay, I run VM's but only have 8 cores. So I give 4 to host and 4 to guest. If you run multiple VM's how do you allocate the cores? Yes, I have 8G of memory and I want 16 so each host/guest gets 8G It's a bit thin running a VM with 4G some days. |
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#17
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Buying a new PC
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 11:04:21 -0400
Big Al wrote: On 6/19/20 8:53 AM, this is what Johnny wrote: I recommend this one: https://www.newegg.com/hp-prodesk-60...scrollFullInfo It just doesn't say what USB type they are. 2/3/3.1/3c ?? Nor is there a SD card reader. I have that same computer. All it says is the USB slots are 3.0. Four on the back and two on the front. There are also two USB 2.0 on the front, and two on the back. |
#18
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Buying a new PC
On 6/19/20 11:13 AM, this is what Johnny wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 11:04:21 -0400 Big Al wrote: On 6/19/20 8:53 AM, this is what Johnny wrote: I recommend this one: https://www.newegg.com/hp-prodesk-60...scrollFullInfo It just doesn't say what USB type they are. 2/3/3.1/3c ?? Nor is there a SD card reader. I have that same computer. All it says is the USB slots are 3.0. Four on the back and two on the front. There are also two USB 2.0 on the front, and two on the back. That's cool. Card readers I think are kinda dead. I rarely use my DSLR anymore since I have a new better phone. Still, a cheap card reader would suffice. Al |
#19
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Buying a new PC
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 08:49:14 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote: On 2020-06-19 7:53 a.m., Johnny wrote: On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 06:44:47 -0400 micky wrote: Well, the computer has continued to crash, mostly with the same 4 problems. Other times, it's frozen. So I need a new one. I haven't had a new one since the PCJr. 1) This time I want 16 gigs of RAM, or do I want even more????? The reason for more than 8 gigs is that I tend to open way too many FF tabs and the computer slows and eventually FF stops. Won't more RAM make that take a lot longer to happen? 2) And maybe I should get a SSD for the PC??? One page said that READing the drive over and over won't wear it out, only writing to it. Right? So if I had another harddrive for data, that would solve the wearing out, except I've separated the email data and the Usenet data from the programs, but isn't it much harder to separate the Firefox data? And that gets rewritten all the time. 3) Brand. I suppose if I get a name brand, I'll get the latest technology on the SSD, but a) aren't lesser brands a lot cheaper. b) don't they use the older technology where there is a difference, because once better is invented, the name brands like Dell generally don't use it anymore. In practice does this make a difference for me? Is the previous design of SSDs so much not as good as the latest design? I have to post this before the computer freezes. I have an XP laptop and a win7 laptop. I'll unbury one of them if need be. I recommend this one: https://www.newegg.com/hp-prodesk-60...scrollFullInfo I have never understood why someone would open so many tabs that it would cause Firefox to stop. Use bookmarks, open everything in a new window. I don't think I have ever had more than three tabs open. Having dozens and hundreds of tabs open will only lead to big trouble, And it proves that in Micky's case. Big trouble might be overstating things. At worst, Firefox gets sluggish and/or parts of the 'chrome' (the browser window dressing) may turn black, but killing the task and restarting it clears things up without causing any damage. All open tabs restored upon restart, of course. Adding RAM prevents it from happening, or at least forestalls it. I routinely have about 250-350 tabs open in Firefox, arranged into windows by customer and project, and I haven't seen any slowdowns or UI issues since I bumped the RAM to 64GB. Even when the number of open tabs climbs above 400, the most RAM Firefox has used is about 14-16GB. That's heavily site dependent, of course. |
#20
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Buying a new PC
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 08:17:45 -0500, Johnny wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 08:10:12 -0500 Char Jackson wrote: On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 07:53:06 -0500, Johnny wrote: I have never understood why someone would open so many tabs that it would cause Firefox to stop. Use bookmarks, open everything in a new window. I don't think I have ever had more than three tabs open. To me, it makes much more sense to open related sites as tabs within the same window rather than have a ton of windows open. It's nice that we have the flexibility to do it either way. I don't have a ton of windows open. All my bookmarks are on my desktop as icons. I click on one, when finished, I close it,and open another one. Only one window open at a time. If I click on a link in the open window it opens in a new tab. I stopped single-tasking when I left the Commodore64 and moved to the Commodore Amiga back in the mid 80's. I'm not about to go back to it now. I had an older friend, now deceased, who used his computer like you do. One task at a time, no exceptions. He'd frequently invite me over to help him with computer questions, and it was maddening for me to see him work, but that was the way he liked it, so who am I to say it's wrong. |
#21
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Buying a new PC
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#22
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Buying a new PC
On 2020-06-19 10:32 a.m., Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 08:49:14 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 2020-06-19 7:53 a.m., Johnny wrote: On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 06:44:47 -0400 micky wrote: Well, the computer has continued to crash, mostly with the same 4 problems. Other times, it's frozen. So I need a new one. I haven't had a new one since the PCJr. 1) This time I want 16 gigs of RAM, or do I want even more????? The reason for more than 8 gigs is that I tend to open way too many FF tabs and the computer slows and eventually FF stops. Won't more RAM make that take a lot longer to happen? 2) And maybe I should get a SSD for the PC??? One page said that READing the drive over and over won't wear it out, only writing to it. Right? So if I had another harddrive for data, that would solve the wearing out, except I've separated the email data and the Usenet data from the programs, but isn't it much harder to separate the Firefox data? And that gets rewritten all the time. 3) Brand. I suppose if I get a name brand, I'll get the latest technology on the SSD, but a) aren't lesser brands a lot cheaper. b) don't they use the older technology where there is a difference, because once better is invented, the name brands like Dell generally don't use it anymore. In practice does this make a difference for me? Is the previous design of SSDs so much not as good as the latest design? I have to post this before the computer freezes. I have an XP laptop and a win7 laptop. I'll unbury one of them if need be. I recommend this one: https://www.newegg.com/hp-prodesk-60...scrollFullInfo I have never understood why someone would open so many tabs that it would cause Firefox to stop. Use bookmarks, open everything in a new window. I don't think I have ever had more than three tabs open. Having dozens and hundreds of tabs open will only lead to big trouble, And it proves that in Micky's case. Big trouble might be overstating things. At worst, Firefox gets sluggish and/or parts of the 'chrome' (the browser window dressing) may turn black, but killing the task and restarting it clears things up without causing any damage. All open tabs restored upon restart, of course. Adding RAM prevents it from happening, or at least forestalls it. I routinely have about 250-350 tabs open in Firefox, arranged into windows by customer and project, and I haven't seen any slowdowns or UI issues since I bumped the RAM to 64GB. Even when the number of open tabs climbs above 400, the most RAM Firefox has used is about 14-16GB. That's heavily site dependent, of course. I guess having sufficient memory as in your case really makes more tabs viable, But with only 4 or 8 GB it would be best to hold the number of open tabs to a reasonable level. My needs are very small so my set usually has about 6 or 7 open and I have an i7 8700 and 16 GB of ram so everything runs really good, Rene |
#23
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Buying a new PC
micky wrote:
Well, the computer has continued to crash, mostly with the same 4 problems. Other times, it's frozen. So I need a new one. I haven't had a new one since the PCJr. 1) This time I want 16 gigs of RAM, or do I want even more????? The reason for more than 8 gigs is that I tend to open way too many FF tabs and the computer slows and eventually FF stops. Won't more RAM make that take a lot longer to happen? 2) And maybe I should get a SSD for the PC??? One page said that READing the drive over and over won't wear it out, only writing to it. Right? So if I had another harddrive for data, that would solve the wearing out, except I've separated the email data and the Usenet data from the programs, but isn't it much harder to separate the Firefox data? And that gets rewritten all the time. 3) Brand. I suppose if I get a name brand, I'll get the latest technology on the SSD, but a) aren't lesser brands a lot cheaper. b) don't they use the older technology where there is a difference, because once better is invented, the name brands like Dell generally don't use it anymore. In practice does this make a difference for me? Is the previous design of SSDs so much not as good as the latest design? I have to post this before the computer freezes. I have an XP laptop and a win7 laptop. I'll unbury one of them if need be. https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html https://www.cpuid.com/downloads/cpu-z/cpu-z_1.92-en.zip Unpack the ZIP and run it. It gives a summary of some parts of your PC. In this example, I posted an image so you can see my machine details. (Use "Download Image" to see details...) https://i.postimg.cc/NG6s4MDn/CPUZ.gif This kind of picture, if you make one, will give some idea what you're currently driving, and we can compare when selecting a desktop. ******** If this was a memory problem, we can try some stuff. Maybe this is how the DIMMs are currently set up. Dual channel, one stick per channel, some slots left blank. These options are *only* worth considering if your desktop has four DIMM slots. If your machine has two DIMM slots, well, you can pretty well stop here. Channel 0 Channel 1 | | 2GB#1 2GB#2 | | X X If you're on a dessert island (ice cream!), and can't get replacement DIMMs, you can *reconfigure* the memory, with all power removed from the machine. Using antistatic precautions and with the *power cord pulled*, these are alternate configs. (You don't want power in the slots, when inserting or removing RAM.) Channel 0 Channel 1 Single channel mode "bad memory down low" | | 2GB#1 X | | 2GB#2 X Or like this. Channel 0 Channel 1 Single channel mode "bad memory up high" | | 2GB#2 X | | 2GB#1 X The reason for continuing to use *two* sticks in this case, is so you can move the bad memory locations so they don't bonk the OS on the head. One of the two configs will be more stable than the other. ******* On a machine with only two DIMM slots, if you had two DIMMs installed, run with just one of the DIMMs inserted and retest. Channel 0 Channel 1 Single channel mode | | 2GB#1 X Then try the other stick, if necessary (if previous config crashes). Channel 0 Channel 1 Single channel mode | | 2GB#2 X Those are some things to try (for some value of "fun"). HTH, Paul |
#24
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Buying a new PC
Johnny wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 11:04:21 -0400 Big Al wrote: On 6/19/20 8:53 AM, this is what Johnny wrote: I recommend this one: https://www.newegg.com/hp-prodesk-60...scrollFullInfo It just doesn't say what USB type they are. 2/3/3.1/3c ?? Nor is there a SD card reader. I have that same computer. All it says is the USB slots are 3.0. Four on the back and two on the front. There are also two USB 2.0 on the front, and two on the back. The two blue on the back are USB3. The four black on the back are USB2. https://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggIm...97-746-V03.jpg Sometimes they adhere to color standards, but not always. Those colors are pretty consistently used here (for mobos and addin cards). Paul |
#25
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Buying a new PC
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 11:11:09 -0400, Big Al wrote:
On 6/19/20 9:19 AM, this is what Char Jackson wrote: I'm not saying you need 64GB, of course. I only have that much because I need to run multiple VMs simultaneously. okay, I run VM's but only have 8 cores. So I give 4 to host and 4 to guest. If you run multiple VM's how do you allocate the cores? Extreme oversubscription. My CPU is an i7-8700, so 6 cores and 12 logical processors. The Linux VMs each get 2 cores, except for some of the specialty stuff like virtual routers (dd-wrt) and firewalls (pfsense) that need only a single core. The Windows VMs each get all 6 cores, except for the older stuff: XP gets 2, 2000 and 98 get 1 each. I also heavily oversubscribe the RAM and just let VMware figure it out. It's the lazy way to do it but it works very well. Yes, I have 8G of memory and I want 16 so each host/guest gets 8G It's a bit thin running a VM with 4G some days. Agreed, but it depends on what it is and what you're doing with it. My VMs don't do any heavy lifting, but I frequently need to have 12-20 running at the same time to model a customer's network so I can demo a solution to whatever they hired me to do. I sling some traffic around within my virtual lab to show proof of concept, but that's about it. |
#26
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Buying a new PC
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 11:23:24 -0400, Big Al wrote:
On 6/19/20 11:13 AM, this is what Johnny wrote: On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 11:04:21 -0400 Big Al wrote: On 6/19/20 8:53 AM, this is what Johnny wrote: I recommend this one: https://www.newegg.com/hp-prodesk-60...scrollFullInfo It just doesn't say what USB type they are. 2/3/3.1/3c ?? Nor is there a SD card reader. I have that same computer. All it says is the USB slots are 3.0. Four on the back and two on the front. There are also two USB 2.0 on the front, and two on the back. That's cool. Card readers I think are kinda dead. I rarely use my DSLR anymore since I have a new better phone. Still, a cheap card reader would suffice. My laptops have SD card readers. One was most recently used about 5-6 years ago and the other has never been used. I thought I might use them when I added microSD cards to my phones, but nope. |
#27
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Buying a new PC
"Char Jackson" wrote
| Only one window open at a time. If I click on a link in the open | window it opens in a new tab. | | I stopped single-tasking when I left the Commodore64 and moved to the | Commodore Amiga back in the mid 80's. I'm not about to go back to it now. | But you said you have to have 64 GB of RAM because not only are you not bothering to close unused windows. You're also running multiple OSs in VMs. There's no such thing as multi-tasking. There's only serial tasking. If you switch between programs a lot then it makes sense to leave windows open. If you use your computer for testing software across OSs and not for actual work, then it makes sense to have VMs. Otherwise, you're just wasting money on top-level gamer machines to support your bad habits. I'm using Firefox and New Moon on Win32, where I'm limited to 3 GB RAM. I also sometimes run Visual Studio 6 at the same time. Maybe Paint Shop Pro. Probably several instances of Notepad. Outlook Express. I don't get anywhere near hitting the RAM limit, and I won't, unless I editing very large images. What do I have open now? OE. Because I'm reading newsgroups. Why be a slob and leave this morning's browser windows sitting there? I suspect that throwing RAM at the problem is probably also a limited solution. Browsers seem to gauge their usage. I suspect a dozen instances of FF on my box will probably use a lot less RAM than the same thing on your box, simply because the system is not going to give it that much. And maybe Mozilla have programmed in some intelligence about resource hogging. That... and I don't normally enable javascript or forced refreshing or embedded videos. That alone could save a lot of load just on a single page. So there's no reason you can't be a slob, if that's the way you want to work, but that's hardly "modern" computer use. It's just being a slob. And it costs you because you need jacked up hardware to pull it off. |
#28
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Buying a new PC
"Rene Lamontagne" wrote
| I routinely have about 250-350 tabs open in Firefox, arranged into windows | by customer and project, and I haven't seen any slowdowns or UI issues | since I bumped the RAM to 64GB. Even when the number of open tabs climbs | above 400, the most RAM Firefox has used is about 14-16GB. That's heavily | site dependent, of course. | | | I guess having sufficient memory as in your case really makes more tabs | viable, But with only 4 or 8 GB it would be best to hold the number of | open tabs to a reasonable level. | I think the trick is just not to live with someone like that. They're the people who leave the sink full of dishes, the driveway full of wrenches, coffee cups in their car back seat, and a dried paintbrush on the kitchen table from that little odd job they did last month. |
#29
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Buying a new PC
I should have said that I was talking about a desktop. But whatever was said about laptops was useful too, because I was thinking about getting another one. I'll start a new thread about in a few months. Last time I looked about six months ago I saw probably 8 Gig, probably no SSD, maybe refurbished for 300, 400 at most, at Microcenter. This time when I search for 16 or 32 gig, I still get mostly 8gig. I have to search some more, and the newegg ones you suggested. . In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Fri, 19 Jun 2020 06:44:47 -0400, micky wrote: Well, the computer has continued to crash, mostly with the same 4 problems. Other times, it's frozen. So I need a new one. I haven't had a new one since the PCJr. 1) This time I want 16 gigs of RAM, or do I want even more????? The reason for more than 8 gigs is that I tend to open way too many FF tabs and the computer slows and eventually FF stops. Won't more RAM make that take a lot longer to happen? 2) And maybe I should get a SSD for the PC??? One page said that READing the drive over and over won't wear it out, only writing to it. Right? So if I had another harddrive for data, that would solve the wearing out, except I've separated the email data and the Usenet data from the programs, but isn't it much harder to separate the Firefox data? And that gets rewritten all the time. 3) Brand. I suppose if I get a name brand, I'll get the latest technology on the SSD, but a) aren't lesser brands a lot cheaper. b) don't they use the older technology where there is a difference, because once better is invented, the name brands like Dell generally don't use it anymore. In practice does this make a difference for me? Is the previous design of SSDs so much not as good as the latest design? I have to post this before the computer freezes. I have an XP laptop and a win7 laptop. I'll unbury one of them if need be. |
#30
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Buying a new PC
On 19/06/2020 13:16, Big Al wrote:
And lastly you could build your own if you can.Â* But that's takes a level of expertise to do. And you thought that somebody who is struggling to buy a new computer will have this expertise to build one for himself!! The only expertise required is to be able to handle nutters and idiots on these newsgroups and you lack that expertise and unlikely to gain that in your old age. -- With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. |
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