Microsoft end of support dates

On 11/07/2020 05:42, Snit wrote:
On 7/10/20 8:29 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 07:29:07 -0400, Wolffan
wrote:

On 10 Jul 2020, Apd wrote
(in article ):

"Commander Kinsey" wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 01:30:22 +0100, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 09 Jul 2020 23:51:43 +0100, "Commander Kinsey" wrote:

Just found this beauty: Windows 1.0 ran from 1985 until 2001!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1.0

"Windows 1.0 was released on November 20, 1985"

"On December 31, 2001, Windows 1.0 was declared obsolete and
Microsoft stopped providing support and updates for the system."

Those who used it regarded Windows 1.0 as obsolete almost from the
beginning.

I never even heard of it and wondered why Windows 2 was the first
one. When I looked up that query, I found there was a windows 1.

But it's very odd they supported it until 2001, by which times we'd
had Windows 2, 3, 95, 98, NT 4 (and 1, 2, 3?) 2000.

That 2001 date was also the time they stopped supporting MSDOS 6 as
well as Win 2 &Â* 3 which depended on it or lower versions. Win95&Â* 98
ran on MSDOS 7+.

95/98/98SE/ME were actual OSes. Win 1/2/3.x were applications running
on DOS.

And Windows 2000 was actually NT5. It was where Windows started to
properly grow up.


Windows naming was weird back then.

For the home it went from 3.1 to 95 to 98 to ME

And for the pros it went from NT to 2000

Why have the numbers and two-letter combos switch?

There is comprehensive data listed he-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ndows_versions

I went from 3.1 to 95 to 98 to XP to 7 and now 10

10 years ago I bought my first Apple iMac - I love it!

I've used various flavours of Linux from time to time too!

On 7/10/20 10:06 PM, David_B wrote:
On 11/07/2020 05:42, Snit wrote:
On 7/10/20 8:29 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 07:29:07 -0400, Wolffan
wrote:

On 10 Jul 2020, Apd wrote
(in article ):

"Commander Kinsey" wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 01:30:22 +0100, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 09 Jul 2020 23:51:43 +0100, "Commander Kinsey" wrote:

Just found this beauty: Windows 1.0 ran from 1985 until 2001!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1.0

"Windows 1.0 was released on November 20, 1985"

"On December 31, 2001, Windows 1.0 was declared obsolete and
Microsoft stopped providing support and updates for the system."

Those who used it regarded Windows 1.0 as obsolete almost from the
beginning.

I never even heard of it and wondered why Windows 2 was the first
one. When I looked up that query, I found there was a windows 1.

But it's very odd they supported it until 2001, by which times we'd
had Windows 2, 3, 95, 98, NT 4 (and 1, 2, 3?) 2000.

That 2001 date was also the time they stopped supporting MSDOS 6 as
well as Win 2 &Â* 3 which depended on it or lower versions. Win95&Â* 98
ran on MSDOS 7+.

95/98/98SE/ME were actual OSes. Win 1/2/3.x were applications
running on DOS.

And Windows 2000 was actually NT5. It was where Windows started to
properly grow up.


Windows naming was weird back then.

For the home it went from 3.1 to 95 to 98 to ME

And for the pros it went from NT to 2000

Why have the numbers and two-letter combos switch?

There is comprehensive data listed he-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ndows_versions

I went from 3.1 to 95 to 98 to XP to 7 and now 10

Yes. I stopped before 7 and 10... though I suppose that just means they
went back to numbers.

10 years ago I bought my first Apple iMac - I love it!

I've used various flavours of Linux from time to time too!

Which do you prefer. My current favorite is Mint, though I admit I use
it less and less. Really nothing I do these days cannot be done as well
on a Mac. For me. That does not mean other choices are not great for
other people and yada yada yada all the common disclaimers.


--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 11/07/2020 06:18, Snit wrote:
On 7/10/20 10:06 PM, David_B wrote:
On 11/07/2020 05:42, Snit wrote:
On 7/10/20 8:29 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 07:29:07 -0400, Wolffan
wrote:

On 10 Jul 2020, Apd wrote
(in article ):

"Commander Kinsey" wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 01:30:22 +0100, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 09 Jul 2020 23:51:43 +0100, "Commander Kinsey" wrote:

Just found this beauty: Windows 1.0 ran from 1985 until 2001!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1.0

"Windows 1.0 was released on November 20, 1985"

"On December 31, 2001, Windows 1.0 was declared obsolete and
Microsoft stopped providing support and updates for the system."

Those who used it regarded Windows 1.0 as obsolete almost from the
beginning.

I never even heard of it and wondered why Windows 2 was the first
one. When I looked up that query, I found there was a windows 1.

But it's very odd they supported it until 2001, by which times we'd
had Windows 2, 3, 95, 98, NT 4 (and 1, 2, 3?) 2000.

That 2001 date was also the time they stopped supporting MSDOS 6 as
well as Win 2 &Â* 3 which depended on it or lower versions. Win95&Â* 98
ran on MSDOS 7+.

95/98/98SE/ME were actual OSes. Win 1/2/3.x were applications
running on DOS.

And Windows 2000 was actually NT5. It was where Windows started to
properly grow up.


Windows naming was weird back then.

For the home it went from 3.1 to 95 to 98 to ME

And for the pros it went from NT to 2000

Why have the numbers and two-letter combos switch?

There is comprehensive data listed he-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ndows_versions

I went from 3.1 to 95 to 98 to XP to 7 and now 10

Yes. I stopped before 7 and 10... though I suppose that just means they
went back to numbers.

I've kept abreast of Windows so that I can help my friends and
neighbours when they have problems with their machines. I don't use it
in anger, so to speak.

10 years ago I bought my first Apple iMac - I love it!

I've used various flavours of Linux from time to time too!

Which do you prefer. My current favorite is Mint, though I admit I use
it less and less. Really nothing I do these days cannot be done as well
on a Mac. For me. That does not mean other choices are not great for
other people and yada yada yada all the common disclaimers.

I've found the up-to-date Ubuntu totally satisfactory and now very much
like macOS. However, I'd rather use my iMac for just about everything.
Photographic images are just superb when viewed on the 27 inch Retina
screen!

Have you shown your girls THIS image?
https://artsology.com/images/animal-face-illusion.jpg

Fascinating! :-)

On 7/10/20 10:33 PM, David_B wrote:
....

That 2001 date was also the time they stopped supporting
MSDOS 6 as well as Win 2 & 3 which depended on it or
lower versions. Win95& 98 ran on MSDOS 7+.

95/98/98SE/ME were actual OSes. Win 1/2/3.x were
applications running on DOS.

And Windows 2000 was actually NT5. It was where Windows
started to properly grow up.


Windows naming was weird back then.

For the home it went from 3.1 to 95 to 98 to ME

And for the pros it went from NT to 2000

Why have the numbers and two-letter combos switch?

There is comprehensive data listed he-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ndows_versions

I went from 3.1 to 95 to 98 to XP to 7 and now 10

Yes. I stopped before 7 and 10... though I suppose that just means
they went back to numbers.

I've kept abreast of Windows so that I can help my friends and
neighbours when they have problems with their machines. I don't use it
in anger, so to speak.

I am still the online tech support for a number of folks I know -- and
with modern social distancing it has increased, or at least I have a
couple more one-offs who I help. So far nothing really noteworthy...
just basic computing stuff. I have done some basic maintenance for a few
folks as well.

10 years ago I bought my first Apple iMac - I love it!

I've used various flavours of Linux from time to time too!

Which do you prefer. My current favorite is Mint, though I admit I use
it less and less. Really nothing I do these days cannot be done as
well on a Mac. For me. That does not mean other choices are not great
for other people and yada yada yada all the common disclaimers.

I've found the up-to-date Ubuntu totally satisfactory and now very much
like macOS.

Last I tried it I had issues with it in Parallels. Might try it again --
maybe even on a real machine and not a virtual one.

However, I'd rather use my iMac for just about everything.
Photographic images are just superb when viewed on the 27 inch Retina
screen!

Absolutely. And Apple does a lot to improve usability -- little touches
many do not even really know are helping them. Lots of system services.

Have you shown your girls THIS image?
https://artsology.com/images/animal-face-illusion.jpg

Fascinating! :-)

Yes. When they were younger and we were doing pure home schooling we
covered art, including looking at this site:

https://www.giuseppe-arcimboldo.org

Both of my kids are very much into art now... and both are very
talented. Before COVID one worked at an art camp as the "high school"
assistant since she was in 7th grade (high school is 9th grade). Now at
15 she does a lot with resin art and has her own business.


--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 11/07/2020 06:53, Snit wrote:
On 7/10/20 10:33 PM, David_B wrote:
...

That 2001 date was also the time they stopped supporting
MSDOS 6 as well as Win 2 &Â* 3 which depended on it or
lower versions. Win95&Â* 98 ran on MSDOS 7+.

95/98/98SE/ME were actual OSes. Win 1/2/3.x were
applications running on DOS.

And Windows 2000 was actually NT5. It was where Windows
started to properly grow up.


Windows naming was weird back then.

For the home it went from 3.1 to 95 to 98 to ME

And for the pros it went from NT to 2000

Why have the numbers and two-letter combos switch?

There is comprehensive data listed he-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ndows_versions

I went from 3.1 to 95 to 98 to XP to 7 and now 10

Yes. I stopped before 7 and 10... though I suppose that just means
Â*they went back to numbers.

I've kept abreast of Windows so that I can help my friends and
neighbours when they have problems with their machines. I don't use it
in anger, so to speak.

I am still the online tech support for a number of folks I know -- and
with modern social distancing it has increased, or at least I have a
couple more one-offs who I help. So far nothing really noteworthy...
just basic computing stuff. I have done some basic maintenance for a few
folks as well.

10 years ago I bought my first Apple iMac - I love it!

I've used various flavours of Linux from time to time too!

Which do you prefer. My current favorite is Mint, though I admit I
use it less and less. Really nothing I do these days cannot be done
as well on a Mac. For me. That does not mean other choices are not
great for other people and yada yada yada all the common disclaimers.

I've found the up-to-date Ubuntu totally satisfactory and now very
much like macOS.

Last I tried it I had issues with it in Parallels. Might try it again --
maybe even on a real machine and not a virtual one.

I've not tried it on my Mac. Maybe I have a try, later!

However, I'd rather use my iMac for just about everything.
Photographic images are just superb when viewed on the 27 inch Retina
screen!

Absolutely. And Apple does a lot to improve usability -- little touches
many do not even really know are helping them. Lots of system services.

Even after 10 years, I still find new things on pretty much a daily basis!

Have you shown your girls THIS image?
https://artsology.com/images/animal-face-illusion.jpg

Fascinating! :-)

Yes. When they were younger and we were doing pure home schooling we
covered art, including looking at this site:

https://www.giuseppe-arcimboldo.org

Hey! That's a keeper. Thank you. I'll send it to my sister and see if
she'd like to paint something similar!

Both of my kids are very much into art now... and both are very
talented. Before COVID one worked at an art camp as the "high school"
assistant since she was in 7th grade (high school is 9th grade). Now at
15 she does a lot with resin art and has her own business.

That's great to hear! Well done, Dad! :-D

On 11/07/2020 00.41, Snit wrote:
On 7/10/20 3:32 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

....

As for Linux, I used it once a few weeks ago.* I was told that a
certain scientific program would run 3 times faster on Linux due to
"better memory management".* I think it was more that the program had
been compiled better for Linux.* I run several scientific programs,
and tested them all on the same machine (well two identical ones), one
under Linux and one under Windows.* One of the programs out of 7 was
much faster, 2 were slightly slower, and the other 4 were identical.
But what made me stick with windows was the first hurdle - installing
the program.* So I download the program, but Linux opens it in a text
editor (or tries to, it was too big) when I double click it.* After
googling the problem, I find I have to go to the properties of the
file and allow it run as a program.* Now I have to right click and
select "run as a program", which isn't in my menu.* So I tried running
it from a command prompt.* Despite being in the directory I had placed
it, it couldn't see it!* Apparently I have to prefix it with ./ to
indicate it should look in front of it's nose and not in the system
folder.* Anyway I gave up and used some installer program that comes
with the OS, similar to the Android Google Play thingy.

Linux is good as long as you know it well before you use it.

Certainly :-)

Things like that impede users from shooting their own foot when getting
attachments in email. They can't run them :-D

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Snit wrote:

As for Windows Me, the idea was to redesign the 9x line to be more
like 2000, for example it included the new TCP/IP in 2000 (and in 95,
98, 98 SE and NT 4, it had been abysmal, so that was one thing in Me's
favor). The problem was that for many if not most computers, Me was
far less stable than 98 SE. There were exceptions to that, but it was
released with a lot of flaws.

Worked with someone who had an ME machine that came with a printer. The
printer was not compatible with ME. From what I saw Windows ME was a
disaster.


That really is bizarre, they bundled an incompatible printer? Jeez.

--
Joel Crump

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 22:53:02 -0700, Snit wrote:

On 7/10/20 10:33 PM, David_B wrote:



I am still the online tech support for a number of folks I know -- and
with modern social distancing it has increased, or at least I have a
couple more one-offs who I help. So far nothing really noteworthy...
just basic computing stuff. I have done some basic maintenance for a few
folks as well.

Stop lying snit.
All you do is troll.
All day.
All night.
Weekends.
Holidays.
etc.

Besides, only a complete idiot would trust you to log into their computer
and besides your technical skills aren't good enough to perform anything
but basic troubleshooting.



I've found the up-to-date Ubuntu totally satisfactory and now very much
like macOS.

Last I tried it I had issues with it in Parallels. Might try it again --
maybe even on a real machine and not a virtual one.

Multiple machines?
Public assistance must be paying well these days snit.


However, I'd rather use my iMac for just about everything. Photographic
images are just superb when viewed on the 27 inch Retina screen!

Absolutely. And Apple does a lot to improve usability -- little touches
many do not even really know are helping them. Lots of system services.

Linux is much better for trolling, as you well know.


Have you shown your girls THIS image?
https://artsology.com/images/animal-face-illusion.jpg

Fascinating! :-)

Yes. When they were younger and we were doing pure home schooling we
covered art, including looking at this site:

You home schooled your kids, snit?
Your kids are scarred for life.
What a shame.


https://www.giuseppe-arcimboldo.org

Both of my kids are very much into art now...

Translation: They will starve and end up on public assistance just like
you are snit.


and both are very
talented.

Do your daughters know about your trolling snit Michael Glasser?
I'm sure they know how to use Google and you can't censor their Internet
activities forever like you tried to do with your wife.


Before COVID one worked at an art camp as the "high school"
assistant since she was in 7th grade (high school is 9th grade). Now at
15 she does a lot with resin art and has her own business.

Well somebody has to support the family, put food on the table, pay the
mortgage on your trailer and so forth because it certainly isn't you snit.

So how much of a percentage are you skimming from her profits snit?

She must have learned her work ethic from her mom.
Maybe there is some hope for her.

On 7/10/2020 9:42 PM, Snit wrote:
On 7/10/20 8:29 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 07:29:07 -0400, Wolffan
wrote:

On 10 Jul 2020, Apd wrote
(in article ):

"Commander Kinsey" wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 01:30:22 +0100, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 09 Jul 2020 23:51:43 +0100, "Commander Kinsey" wrote:

Just found this beauty: Windows 1.0 ran from 1985 until 2001!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1.0

"Windows 1.0 was released on November 20, 1985"

"On December 31, 2001, Windows 1.0 was declared obsolete and
Microsoft stopped providing support and updates for the system."

Those who used it regarded Windows 1.0 as obsolete almost from the
beginning.

I never even heard of it and wondered why Windows 2 was the first
one. When I looked up that query, I found there was a windows 1.

But it's very odd they supported it until 2001, by which times we'd
had Windows 2, 3, 95, 98, NT 4 (and 1, 2, 3?) 2000.

That 2001 date was also the time they stopped supporting MSDOS 6 as
well as Win 2 & 3 which depended on it or lower versions. Win95& 98
ran on MSDOS 7+.

95/98/98SE/ME were actual OSes. Win 1/2/3.x were applications running on DOS.

And Windows 2000 was actually NT5. It was where Windows started to
properly grow up.


Windows naming was weird back then.


As opposed to now? It last went from 8.1 to 10.



For the home it went from 3.1 to 95 to 98...


A very minor point, but actually it went from *3.11* to 95.


... to ME


Another very minor point. It was Me, not ME.


And for the pros it went from NT to 2000

Why have the numbers and two-letter combos switch?


Because Microsoft marketing thought it would sell better.


--
Ken

"Snit" wrote:
On 7/10/20 8:29 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
And Windows 2000 was actually NT5. It was where Windows started to
properly grow up.

Windows naming was weird back then.

For the home it went from 3.1 to 95 to 98 to ME

Aside from 3.11, it went to 4.0 (95), 4.1 (98) and 4.9 (Me).

And for the pros it went from NT to 2000

This, a completely different OS from the earlier Wins, went from
NT 4.0 to NT 5.0 (2000).

Why have the numbers and two-letter combos switch?

As someone else said, marketing.

On 11/07/2020 13.48, Joel wrote:
Snit wrote:

As for Windows Me, the idea was to redesign the 9x line to be more
like 2000, for example it included the new TCP/IP in 2000 (and in 95,
98, 98 SE and NT 4, it had been abysmal, so that was one thing in Me's
favor). The problem was that for many if not most computers, Me was
far less stable than 98 SE. There were exceptions to that, but it was
released with a lot of flaws.

Worked with someone who had an ME machine that came with a printer. The
printer was not compatible with ME. From what I saw Windows ME was a
disaster.


That really is bizarre, they bundled an incompatible printer? Jeez.

Obviously the fault was of the vendor, not of M$.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

"Apd" wrote:
"Snit" wrote:

And for the pros it went from NT to 2000

This, a completely different OS from the earlier Wins, went from
NT 4.0 to NT 5.0 (2000).


2000 and XP, and Server 2003, were built on the NT 4 code, but they
intended 2000 to be the first unified version for business and home
use, and even when it wasn't, it would be supported long after 9x/Me,
and with service packs was more or less equivalent to XP, so it made
sense to name it 2000.

--
Joel Crump

"Carlos E.R." wrote:
On 11/07/2020 13.48, Joel wrote:
Snit wrote:

Worked with someone who had an ME machine that came with a printer. The
printer was not compatible with ME. From what I saw Windows ME was a
disaster.

That really is bizarre, they bundled an incompatible printer? Jeez.

Obviously the fault was of the vendor, not of M$.


That's true, but you'd think *someone* would've tested the
compatibility first. If the manufacturer of the printer didn't
provide updated drivers, how did that not get noticed?

--
Joel Crump

On 7/10/20 11:31 PM, David_B wrote:
....
10 years ago I bought my first Apple iMac - I love it!

I've used various flavours of Linux from time to time too!

Which do you prefer. My current favorite is Mint, though I admit I
use it less and less. Really nothing I do these days cannot be done
as well on a Mac. For me. That does not mean other choices are not
great for other people and yada yada yada all the common
disclaimers.

I've found the up-to-date Ubuntu totally satisfactory and now very
much like macOS.

Last I tried it I had issues with it in Parallels. Might try it again
-- maybe even on a real machine and not a virtual one.

I've not tried it on my Mac. Maybe I have a try, later!

Parallels used to work for me very well. For Mint it still does -- for
Windows not so much. I guess with that it is not as much of an issue for
Apple to be leaving Intel behind.

However, I'd rather use my iMac for just about everything.
Photographic images are just superb when viewed on the 27 inch Retina
screen!

Absolutely. And Apple does a lot to improve usability -- little
touches many do not even really know are helping them. Lots of system
services.

Even after 10 years, I still find new things on pretty much a daily basis!

There is a LOT Apple has as "added" over the lowest common denominator.
Here are just some (I created this list for conversations about such
things):

* Proxy icons
* A Media Browser
* Full screen programs integrating with virtual desktops
* PDF Services
* A system wide color selector which allows for add-ons
* A system wide font manager where you can define sets and more
* Application services
* Renaming and moving and duplicating from within programs
* QuickLook (and its integration with so many programs)
* Saved status indicators
* A visual versioning system - which allows easy copying and pasting
from earlier versions
* Consistent print dialogs
* Consistent save and open dialogs
* Consistent common dialog names and placements and hot keys
* Path from title bar
* Recent items list that work with moved / renamed files
* Integrated dictation services
* Integrated text-to-voice services

These things are available in most programs, and developers get them for
"free" -- no need to re-invent the wheel.

And of course there are things like Apple Events (tied to AppleScript
and Automator) and the like which allow non-programmers to do things
they otherwise would never be able to.

Have you shown your girls THIS image?
https://artsology.com/images/animal-face-illusion.jpg

Fascinating! :-)

Yes. When they were younger and we were doing pure home schooling we
covered art, including looking at this site:

https://www.giuseppe-arcimboldo.org

Hey! That's a keeper. Thank you. I'll send it to my sister and see if
she'd like to paint something similar!

Both of my kids are very much into art now... and both are very
talented. Before COVID one worked at an art camp as the "high school"
assistant since she was in 7th grade (high school is 9th grade). Now
at 15 she does a lot with resin art and has her own business.

That's great to hear! Well done, Dad! :-D

What I am happy to see is my kids being inspired by and learning from my
wife and I, but going their own direction and doing their own things.
They are not just copying us, nor each other, but are moving in
directions that they want. And both know so much more of where they want
to go than I did at that age. Of course they might change as the grow...
that is fine, but they just continue to impress me.


--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 7/11/20 4:25 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 11/07/2020 00.41, Snit wrote:
On 7/10/20 3:32 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

...

As for Linux, I used it once a few weeks ago.* I was told that a
certain scientific program would run 3 times faster on Linux due to
"better memory management".* I think it was more that the program had
been compiled better for Linux.* I run several scientific programs,
and tested them all on the same machine (well two identical ones),
one under Linux and one under Windows.* One of the programs out of 7
was much faster, 2 were slightly slower, and the other 4 were
identical. But what made me stick with windows was the first hurdle -
installing the program.* So I download the program, but Linux opens
it in a text editor (or tries to, it was too big) when I double click
it.* After googling the problem, I find I have to go to the
properties of the file and allow it run as a program.* Now I have to
right click and select "run as a program", which isn't in my menu.
So I tried running it from a command prompt.* Despite being in the
directory I had placed it, it couldn't see it!* Apparently I have to
prefix it with ./ to indicate it should look in front of it's nose
and not in the system folder.* Anyway I gave up and used some
installer program that comes with the OS, similar to the Android
Google Play thingy.

Linux is good as long as you know it well before you use it.

Certainly :-)

Things like that impede users from shooting their own foot when getting
attachments in email. They can't run them :-D


One can having warnings or the like. But that is not really what I am
thinking in terms of.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.