internet exporer pullled by Microsoft?

On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 16:59:34 +0100, mechanic wrote:

That's as maybe, but on the other hand explain how a single strand
RNA molecule virus with thousands of base pairs evolved a protected
protein sheath with actual hooks on it to catch pipes in our
respiratory system? Every sign of an engineered product.

Hi mechanic,

While you describe this particular virus incorrectly, I realized you likely
meant that the trimeric spike proteins that hook into our cells (after
activation by furin and ACE2) are on the viral envelope, not the protein
sheath inside which is surrounding the rather large coiled up RNA strand,
where that viral envelope derives from our own cells, so it's antigenically
innocuous except for those key components of the spike protein itself.

Assuming you had meant an accurate characterization of this particular
virus, do you realize that there are six other almost exact similar
coronaviruses, four of which cause from one tenth to about one third of all
cases of the common cold?

Also assuming you had meant an accurate characterization of this virus,
where we'll all admit the RNA is huge in terms of most RNA (or DNA)
viruses, do you realize that almost all human respiratory viruses fit some,
most, or almost all of your characterizations?

My point is that for you to make an extraordinary claim about the bio
weapon aspect, you're gonna need extraordinary evidence - where your only
evidence to date is that this virus is just like many respiratory viruses
(which is to be expected).

BTW, there ARE differences in this virus, which I've covered in other
threads, but you didn't mention them.

See also:
o *Does a single person espousing the privacy sink covid trackers even know what a cytokine storm is?*
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/sAcXqAUyZ_U
--
There are all types of people on Usenet... some of whom are well educated.

On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 16:55:15 -0700, T wrote:

I believe mechanic was speaking of the bio-weapons
lab that this escaped from. Employees were known to
have sold test animals to the wet markets rather
than disposing of them properly.

Maybe the lab got the initial virus from bat?

This is old stuff - Ebola periodically escapes into the human
population from time to time, apparently from host bats (the ones
living in caves in Africa).

What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I
said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments.

"mechanic" wrote

|
That's as maybe, but on the other hand explain how a single strand
RNA molecule virus with thousands of base pairs evolved a protected
protein sheath with actual hooks on it to catch pipes in our
respiratory system? Every sign of an engineered product.
|

| What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I
| said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments.

If you read the article you didn't link, you'll see that
your alleged evil doctors would have got the idea from
an existing virus, which of course develpoed via "impossible"
genetic mutation:

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

In other words, it had already evolved and could have
spread from bats or something else. Scientists who made
a similar bug were basing it on the existing one.

I'm not saying it's
impossible that the bug escaped from Chinese labs. The
US is also doing dangerous experiments. Scientists are
often narrow-minded people without a lot of common
sense. But there's a difference between saying it's possible
and saying it must have happened, based on flimsy,
distorted bits of scientific data. Then you jump from
there and impute motive: They weren't dumb, arrogant
medical researchers. They must have been trying to make
a bio-weapon. So you've gone from no evidence to
certainty that the Chinese hatched an evil, world-threatening
plot worthy of a James Bond movie.

Once you go there you're getting into T's evangelical-
inspired imitating of science to justify absolute nonsense.
He just throws around quasi-scientific terminology to
make his hysteria sound reasoned. Once you do that
you're only fooling yourself, pulling the wool over your
own eyes out of fear.

If you said God did this to punish us for sex outside
of marriage I'd say, "Well, I guess that's one theory".
But when you try to use cartoon science to justify
wild ideas, well that's just plum silly.

In article , mechanic
wrote:

On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 16:55:15 -0700, T wrote:
I believe mechanic was speaking of the bio-weapons
lab that this escaped from. Employees were known to
have sold test animals to the wet markets rather
than disposing of them properly.

Maybe the lab got the initial virus from bat?

This is old stuff - Ebola periodically escapes into the human
population from time to time, apparently from host bats (the ones
living in caves in Africa).

What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I
said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments.

what's interesting is the bizarre conspiracy theories people come up
with.

sars-cov-2 originated in bats, going back many years. end of story.

Mayayana wrote:

I'm not saying it's impossible that the bug escaped from Chinese
labs. The US is also doing dangerous experiments.

They must have been trying to make a bio-weapon.

Too late. Your plot has already been used in the Stephen King novel The
Stand. That escaped military bug killed 98% of the population (in gory
King fashion of course). Good read if you have some time because the
uncut version is near 1200 pages long...

Mayayana posted:

"mechanic" wrote

|
That's as maybe, but on the other hand explain how a single strand
RNA molecule virus with thousands of base pairs evolved a protected
protein sheath with actual hooks on it to catch pipes in our
respiratory system? Every sign of an engineered product.
|

| What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I
| said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments.

If you read the article you didn't link, you'll see that
your alleged evil doctors would have got the idea from
an existing virus, which of course develpoed via "impossible"
genetic mutation:

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

In other words, it had already evolved and could have
spread from bats or something else. Scientists who made
a similar bug were basing it on the existing one.

I'm not saying it's
impossible that the bug escaped from Chinese labs. The
US is also doing dangerous experiments. Scientists are
often narrow-minded people without a lot of common
sense. But there's a difference between saying it's possible
and saying it must have happened, based on flimsy,
distorted bits of scientific data. Then you jump from
there and impute motive: They weren't dumb, arrogant
medical researchers. They must have been trying to make
a bio-weapon. So you've gone from no evidence to
certainty that the Chinese hatched an evil, world-threatening
plot worthy of a James Bond movie.

Once you go there you're getting into T's evangelical-
inspired imitating of science to justify absolute nonsense.
He just throws around quasi-scientific terminology to
make his hysteria sound reasoned. Once you do that
you're only fooling yourself, pulling the wool over your
own eyes out of fear.

If you said God did this to punish us for sex outside
of marriage I'd say, "Well, I guess that's one theory".
But when you try to use cartoon science to justify
wild ideas, well that's just plum silly.


Here are the FACTS which cannot be denied:

Upon reports and verifications that the novel virus existed in Wuhan,
China, the Chinese Communist Party restristed domestic travel to and from
Wuhan. The CCP even arrested and relocated several scientists and/or
doctors who were publicly sounding the alarm...

Quickly, during and thereafter, came the Chinese Lunar New Year Holiday, a
nationally-celebrated yearly event of about 15-days where all routine
government and business activity are shut-down while a great majority of
Chinese citizens travel... This year it was January 24 through March 7.

The CCP maintained the domestic restrictions on travel to and from Wuhan,
but they allowed - even encouraged - international travel, including to and
from Wuhan, concomitant with the Lunar New Year Holiday.

Whether or not this is an "engineered virus", as it's geograpical location
and type of mutation indicates, the Chinese government's reckless response
to the outbreak was malicious by defintion and disregarded all medical
science globally in place to contain and control disease outbreaks... Like
those that were applied for MERS, SARS, and the latest Ebola outbreaks.

Of course, the most radical and virulent aspect of this outbreak, which
started in Wuhan, China and has now become a global pandemic, is the
characteristic of being contagious while its - human and other living
things - hosts are asymptomatic for around 14-days...

Then factor in the UN's World Health Organization January 14, 2020 official
release that "Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese
authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of
the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan #China [CN flag]."
(sic)

https://twitter.com/who/status/1217043229427761152?lang=en

This was in clear light of the FACT that the virus was spreading from human
to human in the Wuhan area of China...

It would have been a good time to quarantine the area, isloate the
infected, and begin contact-tracing to confine the pathogen... BUT that
would have required global cooperation which the Chinese government had
summarily denied.

This is CLEARLY China's doing! Not God's, not Karma's, not Fate's...

The looming question is "What benefit will China gain before our USA
government - packed with Democrats and RINOs who are tempted and corrupted
by visions of Chinese commerce and steeped in Chinese government lobbyist
money - figure out and mount an effacious defense of this Chinese attack on
our national security and sovereignty?"

--

I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^;

Resolve conflicts the American way :

Rock - Paper - Scissors - VOTE OUT ALL DEMOCRATS TO SAVE THE USA

.... and I approve this message!

"123456789" wrote

| They must have been trying to make a bio-weapon.
|
| Too late. Your plot has already been used in the Stephen King novel The
| Stand. That escaped military bug killed 98% of the population (in gory
| King fashion of course). Good read if you have some time because the
| uncut version is near 1200 pages long...

I imagine that's probably almost a template plot. Years
ago there was a Frank Herbert novel. I think it was the
White Plague. A man's wife and child are killed by an IRA
bomb. He creates a virus and seeds it on dollar bills. The
virus makes men express sexual desire as violence. So if
they like a woman they kill her. Most women are killed. The
rest sneak around wearing potato sacks to avoid looking
attractive. The scientist gets his revenge by having all
wives pointlessly killed. A bit thin, but Frank Herbert was
great with presenting the inner world of characters.

On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 09:10:48 -0400, nospam wrote:

What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I
said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments.

what's interesting is the bizarre conspiracy theories people come up
with.

sars-cov-2 originated in bats, going back many years. end of story.

Yes, good example of the hand-waving argument, no science or data
behind it.

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 10:58:40 +0100, mechanic
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 09:10:48 -0400, nospam wrote:

What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I
said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments.

what's interesting is the bizarre conspiracy theories people come up
with.

sars-cov-2 originated in bats, going back many years. end of story.

Yes, good example of the hand-waving argument, no science or data
behind it.

Do you want a table of references?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

mechanic wrote:
On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 09:10:48 -0400, nospam wrote:

What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I
said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments.
what's interesting is the bizarre conspiracy theories people come up
with.

sars-cov-2 originated in bats, going back many years. end of story.

Yes, good example of the hand-waving argument, no science or data
behind it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-env...edium=facebook

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...418-9/fulltext

Scientists from multiple countries have published and analysed
genomes of the causative agent, severe acute respiratory syndrome
coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2),1 and they overwhelmingly conclude
that this coronavirus originated in wildlife,2
, 3
, 4
, 5
, 6
, 7
, 8
, 9
, 10
as have so many other emerging pathogens

No, I'm not going to read all ten for you.

Paul

In article , mechanic
wrote:


What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I
said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments.

what's interesting is the bizarre conspiracy theories people come up
with.

sars-cov-2 originated in bats, going back many years. end of story.

Yes, good example of the hand-waving argument, no science or data
behind it.

there's substantial science and data that shows sars-cov-2 originated
in bats. end of story.

there is *zero* evidence that it was manmade and is just another one of
many ridiculous conspiracy theories.

Paul posted:
mechanic wrote:
On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 09:10:48 -0400, nospam wrote:

What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I
said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments.
what's interesting is the bizarre conspiracy theories people come up
with.

sars-cov-2 originated in bats, going back many years. end of story.

Yes, good example of the hand-waving argument, no science or data
behind it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-env...ource=dlvr.it&
utm_medium=facebook

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...140-6736%2820%
2930418-9/fulltext

Scientists from multiple countries have published and analysed
genomes of the causative agent, severe acute respiratory
syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2),1 and they overwhelmingly
conclude that this coronavirus originated in wildlife


FYI: That link very much appears to be Chinese propaganda! We already know
mainstream media is in the pocket of Chinese lobbyists and Globalist
business interests...

Do they explain the advanced laboratory in Wuhan as simply a coincidence?

The assertion that the virus originated in bats does NOT obviate the
plausibility that the virus was genetically altered - especially with
regards to its human-transmission while its host is asymptomatic.

There is no concrete evidence that the Chinese government unleashed the
virus deliberately. There is a mountain of evidence that the Chinese
government sought to and are seeking to advantage themselves using COVID-19
as leverage...

There is also a failure to adequately explain WHY proximate Chinese experts
were imprisoned and censured when they tried to timely report the novel
outbreak...

There is also a failure to adequately explain WHY Chinese health experts
failed to exercise reasonable diligence with containing the outbreak to
Wuhan until the pathogen could be identified and mapped...

There is also a failure to adequately explain WHY China launched on a
propaganda campaign - even claiming the USA military had planted the
virus...

Also, for those of you who either remember or can read a history book or
know how to bang Google until you get uncensored information, reflect on
the numbers of "medical experts" who testifified before Congress, to the
media, and published numerous white papers and/or studies purporting and
claiming that there was NO CONNECTION between cigarette smoking and
cancer...

"Conspiracy theory/theorists" is NOT a viable or relevant argument!

Failure to make a reasonable connection between two or more connected facts
is a mental disorder... It's called "detached from reality". Or "retarded".

It really is not up to "us" to "prove" a connection. The burden is on the
opposition to "prove" there is NO connection to the virus, its spread, and
China's complicity thereto! For WHATEVER reason[s]...

There are only three (3) types of [valid] arguments: "ethos", "pathos",
and "logos".

"Ethos is advanced by asserting that [some authority] states [a given
position]. "Ex cathedra" is advanced by [some authority] stating [a given
position][over which subject matter they claim dominion].

"Pathos" is advanced by appealing to emotion rather than reason.

"Logos" is advanced by citing logic, reason, and rationality.

None of the three are absolutely "bad" or "good". Any of the three could
be valid, considering the circumstances. Usually, those who would deceive
you - or those who are deceived - deploy ethos and/or pathos arguments
because logos would reveal the error of their position[s]. Make no
mistake, logos arguments can be deceitful or deceiving if the facts cited
are incorrect or distorted by context or anchronism. "Post hoc" logic
["post hoc ergo proctor hoc"; two things happened one after the other ergo
the first thing caused the second thing] is an example of a logos argument
which might be proved or disproved by gathering all the relevant facts or
applying simple common sense reasoning. Sometimes, it is a good call.
Many times, it is not.

Most Americans, especially those who graduated high school after 1971 [when
Brown vs. Board of Education started to show its toll on America's public
school systems] and were never exposed to a common curriculum formal course
called 'Critical Thinking' [which can now only be accessed in certain Ivy
League Universities and some advanced military training], emote a
"decision" then sytematically gather selective "facts" to support that
"decision". They believe they are "thinking" because they suspect they are
using the material in their brain holes to come to these "conclusions"...
But they are NOT exercising any discipline or methodology to filter
information and assimilate it correctly before analyzing it and narrowing
down the options to consider as viable conclusions.

"Thinking" is NOT an inate human process! It must be taught, learned,
developed, practiced, refined... It is a skill and a journey...

Coincidence? The COVID-19 virus has ALL the characteristics of an
engineered virus AND began in a geographical area where the Chinese have an
advanced laboratory which experiments with viruses THEN the Chinese
government went to extreme efforts to conceal its existence THEN the
Chinese government went to extreme efforts to deflect responsibility onto
the USA government THEN the Chinese government went to extreme efforts to
allow the virus to spread globally and NOW the Chinese government is going
to extreme efforts through a massive propaganda campaign to explain away
the virus asserting that it is a naturally occurring event... BECAUSE they
purport that the original virus originated in bats...

It's a little bit late to be conjuring-up some set of ex cathedra and/or
ethos assertions that would contradict all existing factual and anecdotal
evidence to the contrary. ADDITIONALLY, the pattern of MALIGN BEHAVIOR by
the Chinese government tends to abundantly show "mens rea" [a guilty mind].

WHERE is the PROOF that the virus - IN ITS PRESENT STATE [human to human
transmission while asymptomatic] - existed PRIOR to the Wuhan, China
outbreak and subsequent global pandemic?

, 2
, 3
, 4
, 5
, 6
, 7
, 8
, 9
, 10
as have so many other emerging pathogens

Name ONE (1) "emerging pathogen" that has had any government conspire to
deny, conceal, obfuscate, misdirect blame, defy international procedure[s],
mount an extensive and expensive propaganda campaign, and otherwise
facilitate the spread thereof...


No, I'm not going to read all ten for you.

Paul

The rhetorical question for discerning readers is "What type of argument is
'conspiracy theory/theorists'?"

HINT: It is a combination of ethos and pathos with a dash of inductive and
abductive reasoning which absolutely ignores the fact-set while relying
upon a shallow attempt at 'peer pressure persuasion'.

Hope this helps.

--

I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^;

Resolve conflicts the American way :

Rock-Paper-Scissors - Snacking on Tide Pods Destroys Democrats' Brains

.... and I approve this message!

On Mon, 03 Aug 2020 06:41:35 -0400, Paul wrote:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...418-9/fulltext

Scientists from multiple countries have published and analysed
genomes of the causative agent, severe acute respiratory syndrome
coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2),1 and they overwhelmingly conclude
that this coronavirus originated in wildlife,2

[snip]

But who trusts the Lancet theses days (after the MMR fiasco)?

Any cites from Nature?

I'm afraid the ravings of the UseNet community don't really cut it.
To be fair even UseNet sometimes gets it right.

On Mon, 03 Aug 2020 07:31:02 -0400, nospam wrote:

there's substantial science and data that shows sars-cov-2 originated
in bats. end of story.

there is *zero* evidence that it was manmade and is just another one of
many ridiculous conspiracy theories.

They forgot to stamp the branding on it! Next time they will get it
right.

Paul wrote:
mechanic wrote:
On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 09:10:48 -0400, nospam wrote:

What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I
said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments.
what's interesting is the bizarre conspiracy theories people come up
with.

sars-cov-2 originated in bats, going back many years. end of story.

Yes, good example of the hand-waving argument, no science or data
behind it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-env...edium=facebook


Â*Â*
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...418-9/fulltext


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Scientists from multiple countries have published and analysed
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* genomes of the causative agent, severe acute respiratory syndrome
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2),1Â* and they overwhelmingly conclude
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* that this coronavirus originated in wildlife,2
,Â* 3
,Â* 4
,Â* 5
,Â* 6
,Â* 7
,Â* 8
,Â* 9
,Â* 10
as have so many other emerging pathogens

No, I'm not going to read all ten for you.


Just face it, you are not going to convince these idiots to do the
simple "tried and true" things. Wear face masks, social distance, extra
care hygiene, to control spread of a *communicable* disease

a) in order NOT to overwhelm the healthcare system

b) get REAL testing and tracing in place to KNOW who has it and who doesn't

c) buy time for vaccine and/or cure

Because of a stubborn minority we are doomed to take the stupid route
where we can be the country that kills the most people and does extra
damage to our economy as a bonus. If only if the dumb ones would get
infected...

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com