Computer needs warming up.

Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 25/08/2020 05.50, Paul wrote:
Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Peter Jason wrote:
A friend has a computer that needs to be warmed up in cold weather
before it will start.

How cold are we talking about here?

He blows hot air into it from a small electric floor-heater.

Then it starts OK.

What part in the computer needs fixing?


Bad caps? Cheap PS?


There have been reports of this kind of fallout before.

The motherboards are probably never verified in
a temperature chamber.

I have a computer that needs warming up to boot, and it is not broken.


The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the head
on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off compared to
when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to boot, till a few
minutes later when the hard disk warms up.

:-DDD

It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D


Here's a drive from the era. 650 tracks per inch. It would be interesting
to see, if it was reformatted at a median temperature (between coldest and
hottest), whether it would remain properly accessible all the time. Probably
not all that easy to set up.

https://blog.stuffedcow.net/2019/09/...obenchmarking/

RPM sect s/t trks surf skew seek t to t Layout
Seagate ST-157A 44.7 MB 3602 512 26 3,360 6 0 63ms 40um F or A
3.5″, stepper

As for the information on that page, no wonder modern drives have
so much ripple in the transfer curve. There's more to it than
just zone bit recording (which is what causes the stairsteps in
the curve in HDTune).

Paul

On 26/08/2020 11.13, Paul wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 25/08/2020 05.50, Paul wrote:
Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Peter Jason wrote:

....

I have a computer that needs warming up to boot, and it is not broken.


The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the
head on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off compared
to when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to boot, till a
few minutes later when the hard disk warms up.

:-DDD

It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D


Here's a drive from the era. 650 tracks per inch. It would be interesting
to see, if it was reformatted at a median temperature (between coldest and
hottest), whether it would remain properly accessible all the time.
Probably not all that easy to set up.

I thought of that at the time, but I decided against. The computer
should work best at working temps :-)


It was not feasible, anyway. The low format phase took a longish time,
so even if I booted and started fast enough, the disk would warm up
midways. Some tracks would produce error during boot, and others
afterwards...



https://blog.stuffedcow.net/2019/09/...obenchmarking/

That's one long technical article :-)


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â* RPMÂ*Â*Â* sect s/t trksÂ*Â* surfÂ* skewÂ* seekÂ*Â* t to tÂ* Layout
Seagate ST-157AÂ* 44.7 MBÂ*Â* 3602Â*Â* 512Â* 26Â* 3,360Â* 6Â*Â*Â*Â* 0Â*Â*Â*Â* 63msÂ*Â* 40umÂ*Â*Â* F or A
3.5″, stepper

63 ms seek time... I remember that figure. I think 80 was an earlier one.


As for the information on that page, no wonder modern drives have
so much ripple in the transfer curve. There's more to it than
just zone bit recording (which is what causes the stairsteps in
the curve in HDTune).

mmm.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 26 Aug 2020 at 09:05:15 BST, "Peter Jason" wrote:

On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:20:51 +0100, ? Good Guy ?
wrote:


You need something that can read hypertext in my posts!! Clearly you won't
know this so simply move on and do something else.


With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

I've never heard of "hypertext"; what is it and why do I need it?

It's like in France they have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. So it's
text that's super and why wouldn't you want that?

Peter Jason wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:20:51 +0100, ? Good Guy ?
wrote:

You need something that can read hypertext in my posts!! Clearly you won't know this so simply move on and do something else.


With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

I've never heard of "hypertext"; what is it and why do I need it?

Hypertext is a disease that involves a lot of crossposting.

Paul

On 26.08.20 10:05, Peter Jason wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:20:51 +0100, ? Good Guy ?
wrote:


You need something that can read hypertext in my posts!! Clearly you won't know this so simply move on and do something else.


With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

I've never heard of "hypertext"; what is it and why do I need it?

So he can troll you in html.

Sjouke Burry wrote:
On 26.08.20 10:05, Peter Jason wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:20:51 +0100, ? Good Guy ?
wrote:


You need something that can read hypertext in my posts!!Â* Clearly you
won't know this so simply move on and do something else.


With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

I've never heard of "hypertext"; what is it and why do I need it?

So he can troll you in html.


HTTD: Hyper Text Trolling Disorder.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

On 8/26/2020 4:09 AM, Chris wrote:
On 26 Aug 2020 at 09:05:15 BST, "Peter Jason" wrote:

On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:20:51 +0100, ? Good Guy ?
wrote:


You need something that can read hypertext in my posts!! Clearly you won't
know this so simply move on and do something else.


With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

I've never heard of "hypertext"; what is it and why do I need it?

It's like in France they have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. So it's
text that's super and why wouldn't you want that?


First, note that France is not the only country with hypermarkets.

Second, they don't have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. A
hypermarket is different from a supermarket and both can exist in the
same country. You might want to do a web search on "hypermarket
supermarket." You'll find several web sites that explain the difference
between them.


--
Ken

On 8/25/2020 7:16 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 25/08/2020 05.50, Paul wrote:
Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Peter Jason wrote:
A friend has a computer that needs to be warmed up in cold weather
before it will start.

How cold are we talking about here?

He blows hot air into it from a small electric floor-heater.

Then it starts OK.

What part in the computer needs fixing?


Bad caps? Cheap PS?


There have been reports of this kind of fallout before.

The motherboards are probably never verified in
a temperature chamber.

I have a computer that needs warming up to boot, and it is not broken.


The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the head
on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off compared to
when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to boot, till a few
minutes later when the hard disk warms up.

:-DDD

It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D


30MB? 8086? It's obviously not running Windows 10.

Why are you still running such an ancient computer?


--
Ken

On 8/25/20 9:16 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

[snip]

The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the head
on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off compared to
when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to boot, till a few
minutes later when the hard disk warms up.

:-DDD

It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D

Called "turbo", rather than the normal 4.77MHz.

On 2020-08-26 5:59 a.m., Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 26/08/2020 11.13, Paul wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 25/08/2020 05.50, Paul wrote:
Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Peter Jason wrote:

...

I have a computer that needs warming up to boot, and it is not broken.


The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the
head on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off
compared to when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to
boot, till a few minutes later when the hard disk warms up.

:-DDD

It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D


Here's a drive from the era. 650 tracks per inch. It would be interesting
to see, if it was reformatted at a median temperature (between coldest
and
hottest), whether it would remain properly accessible all the time.
Probably not all that easy to set up.

I thought of that at the time, but I decided against. The computer
should work best at working temps :-)


It was not feasible, anyway. The low format phase took a longish time,
so even if I booted and started fast enough, the disk would warm up
midways. Some tracks would produce error during boot, and others
afterwards...



https://blog.stuffedcow.net/2019/09/...obenchmarking/

That's one long technical article :-)


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â* RPMÂ*Â*Â* sect s/t trksÂ*Â* surfÂ* skewÂ* seek
tÂ* to tÂ* Layout
Seagate ST-157AÂ* 44.7 MBÂ*Â* 3602Â*Â* 512Â* 26Â* 3,360Â* 6Â*Â*Â*Â* 0Â*Â*Â*Â* 63ms
40umÂ*Â*Â* F or A
3.5″, stepper

63 ms seek time... I remember that figure. I think 80 was an earlier one.


As for the information on that page, no wonder modern drives have
so much ripple in the transfer curve. There's more to it than
just zone bit recording (which is what causes the stairsteps in
the curve in HDTune).

mmm.



Back in the early 1990s The organization where I was Building
maintenance and security manager, We had installed a new security system
which Included a PDP11/23 Vixen computer purchased and installed by a
Houston Texas company and myself.
It was equipped with an, ST506 MFM drive which was formatted and loaded
with the security software I Texas where the temps were about 105 deg F.

It ran fine for about 2 years or so Being a security system it was never
shut down
The Manitoba Hydro decid to switch us to a new 25,000 volt power line
from 13,600 which necessitated a new main yard transformer also.

This was set for a Sunday so I was in at 6:00 am and shut down all the
building environmental and security systems and they worked till about
7:00 PM and power my main stems up so I started some equipment then
punched in the Hex boot code to restart
the security system but got ERROR, so I left it and went and did other
startup jobs, about a half hour later Tried again an it fired up, In the
next week I experimented and found that the system had to run for at
least a half hour to warm up to about 100 deg. F for it to boot.

So to be safe I ordered a whole new computer from Houston and instructed
them to format and install the software at a room temperature of 70 deg.
F , I kept the original as a backup.

Rene

On 26 Aug 2020 at 15:56:41 BST, "Ken Blake" wrote:

On 8/26/2020 4:09 AM, Chris wrote:
On 26 Aug 2020 at 09:05:15 BST, "Peter Jason" wrote:

On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:20:51 +0100, ? Good Guy ?
wrote:


You need something that can read hypertext in my posts!! Clearly you won't
know this so simply move on and do something else.


With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

I've never heard of "hypertext"; what is it and why do I need it?

It's like in France they have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. So it's
text that's super and why wouldn't you want that?


First, note that France is not the only country with hypermarkets.

Second, they don't have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. A
hypermarket is different from a supermarket and both can exist in the
same country. You might want to do a web search on "hypermarket
supermarket." You'll find several web sites that explain the difference
between them.

Whooosh. It was a joke!

On 8/26/2020 8:56 AM, Chris wrote:
On 26 Aug 2020 at 15:56:41 BST, "Ken Blake" wrote:

On 8/26/2020 4:09 AM, Chris wrote:
On 26 Aug 2020 at 09:05:15 BST, "Peter Jason" wrote:

On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:20:51 +0100, ? Good Guy ?
wrote:


You need something that can read hypertext in my posts!! Clearly you won't
know this so simply move on and do something else.


With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

I've never heard of "hypertext"; what is it and why do I need it?

It's like in France they have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. So it's
text that's super and why wouldn't you want that?


First, note that France is not the only country with hypermarkets.

Second, they don't have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. A
hypermarket is different from a supermarket and both can exist in the
same country. You might want to do a web search on "hypermarket
supermarket." You'll find several web sites that explain the difference
between them.

Whooosh. It was a joke!


Yes, I understood that your second sentence was a joke. But I took your
first sentence as something you believed, something to help you
introduce your joke.


--
Ken

On 26 Aug 2020 at 17:06:36 BST, "Ken Blake" wrote:

On 8/26/2020 8:56 AM, Chris wrote:
On 26 Aug 2020 at 15:56:41 BST, "Ken Blake" wrote:

On 8/26/2020 4:09 AM, Chris wrote:
On 26 Aug 2020 at 09:05:15 BST, "Peter Jason" wrote:

On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:20:51 +0100, ? Good Guy ?
wrote:


You need something that can read hypertext in my posts!! Clearly you won't
know this so simply move on and do something else.


With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

I've never heard of "hypertext"; what is it and why do I need it?

It's like in France they have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. So it's
text that's super and why wouldn't you want that?


First, note that France is not the only country with hypermarkets.

Second, they don't have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. A
hypermarket is different from a supermarket and both can exist in the
same country. You might want to do a web search on "hypermarket
supermarket." You'll find several web sites that explain the difference
between them.

Whooosh. It was a joke!


Yes, I understood that your second sentence was a joke. But I took your
first sentence as something you believed, something to help you
introduce your joke.

It didn't need to be 100% accurate.

On 8/26/2020 9:32 AM, Chris wrote:
On 26 Aug 2020 at 17:06:36 BST, "Ken Blake" wrote:

On 8/26/2020 8:56 AM, Chris wrote:
On 26 Aug 2020 at 15:56:41 BST, "Ken Blake" wrote:

On 8/26/2020 4:09 AM, Chris wrote:
On 26 Aug 2020 at 09:05:15 BST, "Peter Jason" wrote:

On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:20:51 +0100, ? Good Guy ?
wrote:


You need something that can read hypertext in my posts!! Clearly you won't
know this so simply move on and do something else.


With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

I've never heard of "hypertext"; what is it and why do I need it?

It's like in France they have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. So it's
text that's super and why wouldn't you want that?


First, note that France is not the only country with hypermarkets.

Second, they don't have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. A
hypermarket is different from a supermarket and both can exist in the
same country. You might want to do a web search on "hypermarket
supermarket." You'll find several web sites that explain the difference
between them.

Whooosh. It was a joke!


Yes, I understood that your second sentence was a joke. But I took your
first sentence as something you believed, something to help you
introduce your joke.

It didn't need to be 100% accurate.


OK.



--
Ken

On 8/25/2020 10:20 PM, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:

Electric Blanket

snip
* CUT YOUR HEATING BILLS: The Dreamcatcher electric throw allows you
to save on your heating bills by turning on your heated blanket and
setting your thermostat down on your heating by 10-15 percent. With
a fast heat up time and 9 comfort settings for greater control this
fantastic blanket only costs an amazingly low 2p an hour to run. The
fluffy blanket is just big enough to fit as a overblanket for a
double bed.
snip

Since 0 degrees in any temperature scale, other than absolute, is simply
a fixed but arbitrary level what on earth does 10-15 percent even mean?
It sounds like a Good Guy and/or M$ boast: it might be interesting but
on further thought, useless.
--
Jeff Barnett