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#31
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Computer needs warming up.
On 26/08/2020 16.58, Ken Blake wrote:
On 8/25/2020 7:16 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote: On 25/08/2020 05.50, Paul wrote: Jonathan N. Little wrote: Peter Jason wrote: A friend has a computer that needs to be warmed up in cold weather before it will start. How cold are we talking about here? He blows hot air into it from a small electric floor-heater. Then it starts OK. What part in the computer needs fixing? Bad caps? Cheap PS? There have been reports of this kind of fallout before. The motherboards are probably never verified in a temperature chamber. I have a computer that needs warming up to boot, and it is not broken. The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the head on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off compared to when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to boot, till a few minutes later when the hard disk warms up. :-DDD It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D 30MB? 8086? It's obviously not running Windows 10. Why are you still running such an ancient computer? My personal museum :-) -- Cheers, Carlos. |
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#32
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Computer needs warming up.
On 26/08/2020 17.43, Sam E wrote:
On 8/25/20 9:16 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote: [snip] The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the head on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off compared to when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to boot, till a few minutes later when the hard disk warms up. :-DDD It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D Called "turbo", rather than the normal 4.77MHz. No, this machine does not have a "turbo" button. Nor did it use the typical 8088. It was faster than most. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC1512 -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#33
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Computer needs warming up.
This post is for people who can read HTML in their newsreader. If you see this message then clearly you don't have the modern machine with latest software. -- With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. |
#34
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Computer needs warming up.
On 8/26/2020 2:28 PM, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
Jeff Barnett " On 26/08/2020 19:30, Jeff Barnett wrote: "Since 0 degrees in any temperature scale, other than absolute, is simply a fixed but arbitrary level what on earth does 10-15 percent even mean? It sounds like a Good Guy and/or M$ boast: it might be interesting but on further thought, useless. " The OP lives in Australia where the average temperature of 40 degrees Celsius is normal. The electric blanket is for his computer which seems to lose heat rapidly because he has fitted some extreme cooling system. The alternative is to take the computer to bed with him so that it doesn't cool down quickly. The alternative would be to answer the question: What on earth does 10-15 percent even mean in context? I think your current response shows your and your God, M$, actual ability to answer simple questions about your "products". Was my question really that hard to answer? Oh, by the way, 40 degrees C is 104 degrees F. If it were me in that temperature, I'd want ice cream, not an electric blanket. Was that a typo? -- Jeff Barnett |
#35
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Computer needs warming up.
On 26.08.20 22:46, Jeff Barnett wrote:
On 8/26/2020 2:28 PM, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote: cut I'd want ice cream, not an electric blanket. Was that a typo? Nah, that was a trollo.(on six newsgroups) |
#36
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Computer needs warming up.
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 10:53:30 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote: On 2020-08-26 5:59 a.m., Carlos E.R. wrote: On 26/08/2020 11.13, Paul wrote: Carlos E.R. wrote: On 25/08/2020 05.50, Paul wrote: Jonathan N. Little wrote: Peter Jason wrote: ... I have a computer that needs warming up to boot, and it is not broken. The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the head on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off compared to when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to boot, till a few minutes later when the hard disk warms up. :-DDD It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D Here's a drive from the era. 650 tracks per inch. It would be interesting to see, if it was reformatted at a median temperature (between coldest and hottest), whether it would remain properly accessible all the time. Probably not all that easy to set up. I thought of that at the time, but I decided against. The computer should work best at working temps :-) It was not feasible, anyway. The low format phase took a longish time, so even if I booted and started fast enough, the disk would warm up midways. Some tracks would produce error during boot, and others afterwards... https://blog.stuffedcow.net/2019/09/...obenchmarking/ That's one long technical article :-) *************************** RPM*** sect s/t trks** surf* skew* seek t* to t* Layout Seagate ST-157A* 44.7 MB** 3602** 512* 26* 3,360* 6**** 0**** 63ms 40um*** F or A 3.5?, stepper 63 ms seek time... I remember that figure. I think 80 was an earlier one. As for the information on that page, no wonder modern drives have so much ripple in the transfer curve. There's more to it than just zone bit recording (which is what causes the stairsteps in the curve in HDTune). mmm. Back in the early 1990s The organization where I was Building maintenance and security manager, We had installed a new security system which Included a PDP11/23 Vixen computer purchased and installed by a Houston Texas company and myself. It was equipped with an, ST506 MFM drive which was formatted and loaded with the security software I Texas where the temps were about 105 deg F. It ran fine for about 2 years or so Being a security system it was never shut down The Manitoba Hydro decid to switch us to a new 25,000 volt power line from 13,600 which necessitated a new main yard transformer also. This was set for a Sunday so I was in at 6:00 am and shut down all the building environmental and security systems and they worked till about 7:00 PM and power my main stems up so I started some equipment then punched in the Hex boot code to restart the security system but got ERROR, so I left it and went and did other startup jobs, about a half hour later Tried again an it fired up, In the next week I experimented and found that the system had to run for at least a half hour to warm up to about 100 deg. F for it to boot. So to be safe I ordered a whole new computer from Houston and instructed them to format and install the software at a room temperature of 70 deg. F , I kept the original as a backup. Rene The temperatures in operating theaters is kept very low because "the equipment requires it" and if one complains then they throw a warm blanket over you. |
#37
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Computer needs warming up.
On 2020-08-26 4:28 p.m., Peter Jason wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 10:53:30 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 2020-08-26 5:59 a.m., Carlos E.R. wrote: On 26/08/2020 11.13, Paul wrote: Carlos E.R. wrote: On 25/08/2020 05.50, Paul wrote: Jonathan N. Little wrote: Peter Jason wrote: ... I have a computer that needs warming up to boot, and it is not broken. The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the head on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off compared to when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to boot, till a few minutes later when the hard disk warms up. :-DDD It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D Here's a drive from the era. 650 tracks per inch. It would be interesting to see, if it was reformatted at a median temperature (between coldest and hottest), whether it would remain properly accessible all the time. Probably not all that easy to set up. I thought of that at the time, but I decided against. The computer should work best at working temps :-) It was not feasible, anyway. The low format phase took a longish time, so even if I booted and started fast enough, the disk would warm up midways. Some tracks would produce error during boot, and others afterwards... https://blog.stuffedcow.net/2019/09/...obenchmarking/ That's one long technical article :-) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â* RPMÂ*Â*Â* sect s/t trksÂ*Â* surfÂ* skewÂ* seek tÂ* to tÂ* Layout Seagate ST-157AÂ* 44.7 MBÂ*Â* 3602Â*Â* 512Â* 26Â* 3,360Â* 6Â*Â*Â*Â* 0Â*Â*Â*Â* 63ms 40umÂ*Â*Â* F or A 3.5?, stepper 63 ms seek time... I remember that figure. I think 80 was an earlier one. As for the information on that page, no wonder modern drives have so much ripple in the transfer curve. There's more to it than just zone bit recording (which is what causes the stairsteps in the curve in HDTune). mmm. Back in the early 1990s The organization where I was Building maintenance and security manager, We had installed a new security system which Included a PDP11/23 Vixen computer purchased and installed by a Houston Texas company and myself. It was equipped with an, ST506 MFM drive which was formatted and loaded with the security software I Texas where the temps were about 105 deg F. It ran fine for about 2 years or so Being a security system it was never shut down The Manitoba Hydro decid to switch us to a new 25,000 volt power line from 13,600 which necessitated a new main yard transformer also. This was set for a Sunday so I was in at 6:00 am and shut down all the building environmental and security systems and they worked till about 7:00 PM and power my main stems up so I started some equipment then punched in the Hex boot code to restart the security system but got ERROR, so I left it and went and did other startup jobs, about a half hour later Tried again an it fired up, In the next week I experimented and found that the system had to run for at least a half hour to warm up to about 100 deg. F for it to boot. So to be safe I ordered a whole new computer from Houston and instructed them to format and install the software at a room temperature of 70 deg. F , I kept the original as a backup. Rene The temperatures in operating theaters is kept very low because "the equipment requires it" and if one complains then they throw a warm blanket over you. Been there quite a few times, warm blanket was offered and graciously received :-) Rene Rene |
#38
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Computer needs warming up.
On 2020-08-26 4:44 p.m., Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 2020-08-26 4:28 p.m., Peter Jason wrote: On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 10:53:30 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 2020-08-26 5:59 a.m., Carlos E.R. wrote: On 26/08/2020 11.13, Paul wrote: Carlos E.R. wrote: On 25/08/2020 05.50, Paul wrote: Jonathan N. Little wrote: Peter Jason wrote: ... I have a computer that needs warming up to boot, and it is not broken. The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the head on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off compared to when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to boot, till a few minutes later when the hard disk warms up. :-DDD It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D Here's a drive from the era. 650 tracks per inch. It would be interesting to see, if it was reformatted at a median temperature (between coldest and hottest), whether it would remain properly accessible all the time. Probably not all that easy to set up. I thought of that at the time, but I decided against. The computer should work best at working temps :-) It was not feasible, anyway. The low format phase took a longish time, so even if I booted and started fast enough, the disk would warm up midways. Some tracks would produce error during boot, and others afterwards... https://blog.stuffedcow.net/2019/09/...obenchmarking/ That's one long technical article :-) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* RPMÂ*Â*Â* sect s/t trksÂ*Â* surfÂ* skewÂ* seek tÂ* to tÂ* Layout Seagate ST-157AÂ* 44.7 MBÂ*Â* 3602Â*Â* 512Â* 26Â* 3,360Â* 6Â*Â*Â*Â* 0Â*Â*Â*Â* 63ms 40umÂ*Â*Â* F or A 3.5?, stepper 63 ms seek time... I remember that figure. I think 80 was an earlier one. As for the information on that page, no wonder modern drives have so much ripple in the transfer curve. There's more to it than just zone bit recording (which is what causes the stairsteps in the curve in HDTune). mmm. Back in the early 1990s The organization where I was Building maintenance and security manager, We had installed a new security system which Included a PDP11/23 Vixen computer purchased and installed by a Houston Texas company and myself. It was equipped with an, ST506 MFM drive which was formatted and loaded with the security software I Texas where the temps were about 105 deg F. It ran fine for about 2 years or so Being a security system it was never shut down The Manitoba Hydro decid to switch us to a new 25,000 volt power line from 13,600 which necessitated a newÂ* main yard transformer also. This was set for a Sunday so I was in at 6:00 am and shut down all the building environmental and security systems and they worked till about 7:00 PM and power my main stems up so I started some equipment then punched in the Hex boot code to restart the securityÂ* system but got ERROR, so I left it and went and did other startup jobs, about a half hour later Tried again an it fired up, In the next week I experimented and found that the system had to run for at least a half hour to warm up to about 100 deg. F for it to boot. So to be safe I ordered a whole new computer from Houston and instructed them to format and install the software at a room temperature of 70 deg. F , I kept the original as a backup. Rene The temperatures in operating theaters is kept very low because "the equipment requires it" and if one complains then they throw a warm blanket over you. Been there quite a few times, warm blanket was offered and graciously receivedÂ* :-) Rene Rene Nope, not twins there's only one of me. :-) Counting back , been to that theater 9 times. Rene |
#39
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Computer needs warming up.
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 16:44:58 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote: On 2020-08-26 4:28 p.m., Peter Jason wrote: The temperatures in operating theaters is kept very low because "the equipment requires it" and if one complains then they throw a warm blanket over you. Been there quite a few times, warm blanket was offered and graciously received :-) I wonder if it's like asking for a blanket during an air flight, where they take the previously used blankets, carefully fold them and place each into a fresh plastic sleeve, ready for the next guest. |
#40
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Computer needs warming up.
On 2020-08-26 7:05 p.m., Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 16:44:58 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 2020-08-26 4:28 p.m., Peter Jason wrote: The temperatures in operating theaters is kept very low because "the equipment requires it" and if one complains then they throw a warm blanket over you. Been there quite a few times, warm blanket was offered and graciously received :-) I wonder if it's like asking for a blanket during an air flight, where they take the previously used blankets, carefully fold them and place each into a fresh plastic sleeve, ready for the next guest. No, these come fresh from a warming oven, Proof! I'm still alive. :-) Rene |
#41
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Computer needs warming up.
Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 16:44:58 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 2020-08-26 4:28 p.m., Peter Jason wrote: The temperatures in operating theaters is kept very low because "the equipment requires it" and if one complains then they throw a warm blanket over you. Been there quite a few times, warm blanket was offered and graciously received :-) I wonder if it's like asking for a blanket during an air flight, where they take the previously used blankets, carefully fold them and place each into a fresh plastic sleeve, ready for the next guest. These are heated blankets. Like, the blanket is stuck in a microwave to charge it up, and when you get the blanket, it feels like an electric blanket. The blanket is heavy and has thermal mass, so it stays warm for a while. I got one of those blankets during my CT-PET scan (in between scans). There's no premise of cleanliness with that thing, Maybe they wash them between patients, but that's a pretty large item to have to wash. It would depend on what is used as the thermal mass, as to how easy it would be to wash it. Maybe it comes apart into components, and then they can wash the fabric part separaet. I wasn't in a position at the time to disassemble it and see :-) I was supposed to pretend I was sleepy. Paul |
#42
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Computer needs warming up.
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 20:28:27 -0400, Paul
wrote: Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 16:44:58 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 2020-08-26 4:28 p.m., Peter Jason wrote: The temperatures in operating theaters is kept very low because "the equipment requires it" and if one complains then they throw a warm blanket over you. Been there quite a few times, warm blanket was offered and graciously received :-) I wonder if it's like asking for a blanket during an air flight, where they take the previously used blankets, carefully fold them and place each into a fresh plastic sleeve, ready for the next guest. These are heated blankets. Like, the blanket is stuck in a microwave to charge it up, and when you get the blanket, it feels like an electric blanket. The blanket is heavy and has thermal mass, so it stays warm for a while. I got one of those blankets during my CT-PET scan (in between scans). There's no premise of cleanliness with that thing, Maybe they wash them between patients, but that's a pretty large item to have to wash. It would depend on what is used as the thermal mass, as to how easy it would be to wash it. Maybe it comes apart into components, and then they can wash the fabric part separaet. I wasn't in a position at the time to disassemble it and see :-) I was supposed to pretend I was sleepy. Paul Surely the microwave zaps all the bugs? |
#43
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Computer needs warming up.
On 2020-08-26 7:50 p.m., Peter Jason wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 20:28:27 -0400, Paul wrote: Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 16:44:58 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 2020-08-26 4:28 p.m., Peter Jason wrote: The temperatures in operating theaters is kept very low because "the equipment requires it" and if one complains then they throw a warm blanket over you. Been there quite a few times, warm blanket was offered and graciously received :-) I wonder if it's like asking for a blanket during an air flight, where they take the previously used blankets, carefully fold them and place each into a fresh plastic sleeve, ready for the next guest. These are heated blankets. Like, the blanket is stuck in a microwave to charge it up, and when you get the blanket, it feels like an electric blanket. The blanket is heavy and has thermal mass, so it stays warm for a while. I got one of those blankets during my CT-PET scan (in between scans). There's no premise of cleanliness with that thing, Maybe they wash them between patients, but that's a pretty large item to have to wash. It would depend on what is used as the thermal mass, as to how easy it would be to wash it. Maybe it comes apart into components, and then they can wash the fabric part separaet. I wasn't in a position at the time to disassemble it and see :-) I was supposed to pretend I was sleepy. Paul Surely the microwave zaps all the bugs? I would think so, I don't think the little buggers can stand up to a good blast in the Pizza Nuker. Rene |
#44
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Computer needs warming up.
On 27/08/2020 02.50, Peter Jason wrote:
Surely the microwave zaps all the bugs? Nope. I have seen critters alive inside my microwave just after boiling a cup of water for making tea. I have a photo somewhere. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#45
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Computer needs warming up.
On 2020-08-26 9:11 p.m., Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 27/08/2020 02.50, Peter Jason wrote: Surely the microwave zaps all the bugs? Nope. I have seen critters alive inside my microwave just after boiling a cup of water for making tea. I have a photo somewhere. More Power Scotty !!! Rene |
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