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The Strange abd Mysterious World of Win10 Updates



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 9th 20, 10:50 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Alan Holbrook
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Posts: 12
Default The Strange abd Mysterious World of Win10 Updates

Several times a year, my computer response time plummets like a wounded
robin, and usually at the same time, I can't seem to start some of my
applications. Either nothing happens at all or else I get a few seconds of
the hourglass followed by nothing at all happening. I finally noticed,
after this happened several times, if I click on the 'Start' icon and then
on the power icon, I see the little orange dot and the message 'Update and
restart' or 'Update and shut down', depending. When I click on one of them
(usually 'Restart'), the machine goes through its usual couple of centuries
of 'Do not turn off your computer' and finally completes the update and the
restart. And surprise, surprise, when that's all done, my computer is
running at its normal fast speed and all my applications start normally.
So does this happen to any of you, and if it does, do you have any idea of
why the system behaves the way it does when updates are pending? Or is
this just another example of Microsoft being Microsoft?
Ads
  #2  
Old September 9th 20, 11:10 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default The Strange abd Mysterious World of Win10 Updates

Alan Holbrook wrote:
Several times a year, my computer response time plummets like a wounded
robin, and usually at the same time, I can't seem to start some of my
applications. Either nothing happens at all or else I get a few seconds of
the hourglass followed by nothing at all happening. I finally noticed,
after this happened several times, if I click on the 'Start' icon and then
on the power icon, I see the little orange dot and the message 'Update and
restart' or 'Update and shut down', depending. When I click on one of them
(usually 'Restart'), the machine goes through its usual couple of centuries
of 'Do not turn off your computer' and finally completes the update and the
restart. And surprise, surprise, when that's all done, my computer is
running at its normal fast speed and all my applications start normally.
So does this happen to any of you, and if it does, do you have any idea of
why the system behaves the way it does when updates are pending? Or is
this just another example of Microsoft being Microsoft?


That could be the Chrome version of Microsoft Edge
attempting to install. Mine seemed to make several
attempts before it "took", and the old Metro MSEdge
got purged and replaced by the ChromEdge.

Check your Update History link in the Updates window,
to find out what just came in.

Paul
  #3  
Old September 9th 20, 11:19 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 186
Default The Strange abd Mysterious World of Win10 Updates

On Wed, 09 Sep 2020 18:10:28 -0400, Paul wrote:

and the old Metro MSEdge
got purged and replaced by the ChromEdge.


Just a note... if people want both the old & new Edge...
unbothered by updates... they can do so... as did I.

o Tutorial to set up all three Microsoft web browsers simultaneously
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/hUAf1lnum3E
  #4  
Old September 9th 20, 11:25 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
John Doe[_8_]
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Posts: 2,378
Default The Strange abd Mysterious World of Win10 Updates

Paul wrote:

Alan Holbrook wrote:


Several times a year, my computer response time plummets like a
wounded robin, and usually at the same time, I can't seem to
start some of my applications. Either nothing happens at all or
else I get a few seconds of the hourglass followed by nothing at
all happening. I finally noticed, after this happened several
times, if I click on the 'Start' icon and then on the power icon,
I see the little orange dot and the message 'Update and restart'
or 'Update and shut down', depending. When I click on one of
them (usually 'Restart'), the machine goes through its usual
couple of centuries of 'Do not turn off your computer' and
finally completes the update and the restart. And surprise,
surprise, when that's all done, my computer is running at its
normal fast speed and all my applications start normally. So
does this happen to any of you, and if it does, do you have any
idea of why the system behaves the way it does when updates are
pending? Or is this just another example of Microsoft being
Microsoft?


That could be the Chrome version of Microsoft Edge attempting to
install. Mine seemed to make several attempts before it "took",
and the old Metro MSEdge got purged and replaced by the ChromEdge.


Does anybody on a PC actually use a Microsoft browser nowadays?
  #5  
Old September 9th 20, 11:45 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 10,881
Default The Strange abd Mysterious World of Win10 Updates

Alan Holbrook wrote:

Several times a year, my computer response time plummets like a
wounded robin, and usually at the same time, I can't seem to start
some of my applications. Either nothing happens at all or else I get
a few seconds of the hourglass followed by nothing at all happening.
I finally noticed, after this happened several times, if I click on
the 'Start' icon and then on the power icon, I see the little orange
dot and the message 'Update and restart' or 'Update and shut down',
depending. When I click on one of them (usually 'Restart'), the
machine goes through its usual couple of centuries of 'Do not turn
off your computer' and finally completes the update and the restart.
And surprise, surprise, when that's all done, my computer is running
at its normal fast speed and all my applications start normally. So
does this happen to any of you, and if it does, do you have any idea
of why the system behaves the way it does when updates are pending?
Or is this just another example of Microsoft being Microsoft?


Unless you have hidden it, the Windows Update Status tray icon will
appear when an update is either pending to install or a restart is
required. If you elected to hide that icon (by default it is shown),
then you'll have to click the up-chevron at the left end of the systray
to show the hidden icons, or go into the taskbar settings to elect NOT
to hide that tray icon.

When updates have been partially applied, there is a mix of new and old
files. The old files cannot get replaced until a restart of Windows.
Until you get the entire fileset in sync for a feature, the behavior of
that feature is undetermined. I just had an update of the .NET
Framework libs, which means a restart was needed to get its entire
fileset in sync rather than a program trying to call .NET functions with
indeterminate results while the .NET fileset is a frankenjob mix.

When a restart is needed, you can see in the Windows Update panel just
what update is pending a restart. You didn't mention what update was
awaiting a restart. You said all applications were impacted, but it
unlikely you actually started every application currently installed on
your computer. Knowing which applications were affected might hint as
to why they are impacted in common. However, usually knowing what was
the pending Windows update that required a restart is a better target
for diagnosing the trouble.

This is an example of a user ignoring a restart. You would expect a
prompt telling you a restart was required, but that doesn't always
happen. In addition, some users disable the restart prompt: Settings -
Update & Security - Windows Update - Advanced Options - Update
Notifications (enable it to see a prompt that a restart is needed after
applying an update, so you'll see the tray icon to alert you). In fact,
some updates do not specify a restart is needed in their manifest, but
the result can be a hodegpodge of old and new files for a particular
feature. It is safer to do a restart of Windows after any update to
Windows, even if not told a restart is required.
  #6  
Old September 9th 20, 11:47 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 10,881
Default The Strange abd Mysterious World of Win10 Updates

John Doe wrote:

Does anybody on a PC actually use a Microsoft browser nowadays?


One Microsoft switched to the Blink rendering engine (changed from
EdgeHTML to Chromium), I didn't need to keep Google Chrome on my system.
The rendering engine was the same in both web browser, but Chromium Edge
has a couple more security settings that are missing from Google Chrome.
So, Chromium Edge became my secondary web browser. Firefox is my
primary web browser.
  #7  
Old September 10th 20, 12:37 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Blake[_7_]
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Posts: 569
Default The Strange abd Mysterious World of Win10 Updates

On 9/9/2020 3:25 PM, John Doe wrote:

Does anybody on a PC actually use a Microsoft browser nowadays?



I don't (I greatly prefer FireFox), but *many* people use Edge. They use
Edge because it's the default in Windows 10, and they either don't know
they have a choice or are to lazy to change from the default.

My wife is one of those who use Edge. I've tried to convince her that
Edge is terrible, FireFox is much better, and she should change, but she
won't. I don't understand why.

Every now and then I have to go on her computer to do something for her,
and if I have to go onto the web, I have to use Edge. I hate it.


--
Ken
  #8  
Old September 10th 20, 01:05 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 10,881
Default The Strange abd Mysterious World of Win10 Updates

VanguardLH wrote:
Correction - sometimes my fingers don't do what I intend them to do

John Doe wrote:

Does anybody on a PC actually use a Microsoft browser nowadays?


___ Once
V
One Microsoft switched to the Blink rendering engine (changed from
EdgeHTML to Chromium), I didn't need to keep Google Chrome on my system.
The rendering engine was the same in both web browser, but Chromium Edge

^__ browsers
has a couple more security settings that are missing from Google Chrome.
So, Chromium Edge became my secondary web browser. Firefox is my
primary web browser.


Summary:
- Uninstalled Google Chrome along with the mandatory remnant file &
registry cleanup.
- Configured Chromium Edge similar to Google Chrome.
- Installed most of the same extensions into Chromium Edge that were
used with Google Chrome. Some were not needed in Chromium Edge which
included some features missing in Google Chrome.
- Like Google Chrome, Chromium Edge is the backup/secondary web browser.
- Firefox remains the primary web browser.
  #9  
Old September 10th 20, 11:05 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Alan Holbrook
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Posts: 12
Default The Strange abd Mysterious World of Win10 Updates

VanguardLH wrote in :

Alan Holbrook wrote:

Several times a year, my computer response time plummets like a
wounded robin, and usually at the same time, I can't seem to start
some of my applications. Either nothing happens at all or else I get


awaiting a restart. You said all applications were impacted, but it
unlikely you actually started every application currently installed on


Just a nit, but you didn't read my post carefully. I said SOME of my
applications, not All of them.
  #10  
Old September 10th 20, 01:33 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
John[_92_]
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Posts: 515
Default The Strange abd Mysterious World of Win10 Updates

On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 16:37:44 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On 9/9/2020 3:25 PM, John Doe wrote:

Does anybody on a PC actually use a Microsoft browser nowadays?



I don't (I greatly prefer FireFox), but *many* people use Edge. They use
Edge because it's the default in Windows 10, and they either don't know
they have a choice or are to lazy to change from the default.


My sister is one of the former. She's not entirely sure what a
"browser" is. Nor, really, does she understand file systems, storage,
RAM or hard drives. Her only save space is her desktop so she loses
stuff when Win-ten tidies up.

She is, however and unfortunately, a bloody wizard at clicking on
things in emails so browser "helper" objects get installed.


My wife is one of those who use Edge. I've tried to convince her that
Edge is terrible, FireFox is much better, and she should change, but she
won't. I don't understand why.


Maybe because "it doesn't work right", or "it's not THE INTERNET" or
it's not the clicky in the top left corner with the big "E". Perhaps
if you changed the icon for FF to the one Edge uses, replaced the Edge
icon's position with FF and labeled FF's title header as "THE
INTERNET" she might like it more.

Your wife doesn't sound *stupid*, just reluctant to change. This is
not a rare thing. If she doesn't know she's had a change done, she may
grow to like it.

You could even tell her the "new Edge" is an update from Mickey.
There's a small chance that she'll accept this if she doesn't poke
about too much.



Every now and then I have to go on her computer to do something for her,
and if I have to go onto the web, I have to use Edge. I hate it.


So maybe you could install FF as an additional choice but don't tell
her? Then you could use it but wifey doesn't need to know it's even
there.

You may put a *FOLDER* on her desktop called "Tools" and put inside
it all of the icons for the tools you use. You could even put inside
it a PortableApps starty icon and keep your browser on a USB stick.
That way, even your colour schemes, favourites and security settings
travel with you between machines.

I did that for my sister so she could use her children's boxen but
she never used the stick. I think she still has the folder sitting
there, unused.

Unless Win-ten has deleted as unwanted?

J.
  #11  
Old September 10th 20, 02:33 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
John[_92_]
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Posts: 515
Default The Strange abd Mysterious World of Win10 Updates

On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 13:33:47 +0100, John wrote:

On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 16:37:44 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On 9/9/2020 3:25 PM, John Doe wrote:

Does anybody on a PC actually use a Microsoft browser nowadays?



I don't (I greatly prefer FireFox), but *many* people use Edge. They use
Edge because it's the default in Windows 10, and they either don't know
they have a choice or are to lazy to change from the default.


My sister is one of the former. She's not entirely sure what a
"browser" is. Nor, really, does she understand file systems, storage,
RAM or hard drives. Her only save space is her desktop so she loses
stuff when Win-ten tidies up.

She is, however and unfortunately, a bloody wizard at clicking on
things in emails so browser "helper" objects get installed.


My wife is one of those who use Edge. I've tried to convince her that
Edge is terrible, FireFox is much better, and she should change, but she
won't. I don't understand why.


Maybe because "it doesn't work right", or "it's not THE INTERNET" or
it's not the clicky in the top left corner with the big "E". Perhaps
if you changed the icon for FF to the one Edge uses, replaced the Edge
icon's position with FF and labeled FF's title header as "THE
INTERNET" she might like it more.

Your wife doesn't sound *stupid*, just reluctant to change. This is
not a rare thing. If she doesn't know she's had a change done, she may
grow to like it.

You could even tell her the "new Edge" is an update from Mickey.
There's a small chance that she'll accept this if she doesn't poke
about too much.



Every now and then I have to go on her computer to do something for her,
and if I have to go onto the web, I have to use Edge. I hate it.


So maybe you could install FF as an additional choice but don't tell
her? Then you could use it but wifey doesn't need to know it's even
there.

You may put a *FOLDER* on her desktop called "Tools" and put inside
it all of the icons for the tools you use. You could even put inside
it a PortableApps


Bugger, *I* just did it, didn't I?

https://portableapps.com/ the downloadable thingy for Windows is at
this page: https://portableapps.com/download it's on a large, green
button labeled "Download".

Don't you just hate it when eejits make suggestions but fail to
provide the linkies so you have to go to Https:www.ixquick.com to
search for them?

I do.


J.
  #12  
Old September 10th 20, 03:31 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Blake[_7_]
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Posts: 569
Default The Strange abd Mysterious World of Win10 Updates

On 9/10/2020 5:33 AM, John wrote:
On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 16:37:44 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On 9/9/2020 3:25 PM, John Doe wrote:

Does anybody on a PC actually use a Microsoft browser nowadays?



I don't (I greatly prefer FireFox), but *many* people use Edge. They use
Edge because it's the default in Windows 10, and they either don't know
they have a choice or are to lazy to change from the default.


My sister is one of the former. She's not entirely sure what a
"browser" is. Nor, really, does she understand file systems, storage,
RAM or hard drives. Her only save space is her desktop so she loses
stuff when Win-ten tidies up.

She is, however and unfortunately, a bloody wizard at clicking on
things in emails so browser "helper" objects get installed.


My wife is one of those who use Edge. I've tried to convince her that
Edge is terrible, FireFox is much better, and she should change, but she
won't. I don't understand why.


Maybe because "it doesn't work right", or "it's not THE INTERNET" or
it's not the clicky in the top left corner with the big "E".



No, none of those. I've shown her FireFox and showed her what I thought
was better about it, but she ignored my advice and stayed with Edge.


Perhaps
if you changed the icon for FF to the one Edge uses, replaced the Edge
icon's position with FF and labeled FF's title header as "THE
INTERNET" she might like it more.



She might not even notice it was not Edge. But I won't do that. If she's
happy with Edge, I'll let it be.


Your wife doesn't sound *stupid*, just reluctant to change. This is
not a rare thing. If she doesn't know she's had a change done, she may
grow to like it.




Yes, reluctant to change, but she's also stupid when it comes to
computers. She makes the same mistakes over, and over and when I explain
what she did wrong, it stays in her brain for a full six or seven seconds.

If I were to die, and she didn't have someone to fix things for her,
she'd have an unusable computer in a very short time.

I do all our financial record keeping in Quicken. She wanted to take it
over and do it instead of me. I said "no way." She'd have it all f*cked
up in a day or two.



You could even tell her the "new Edge" is an update from Mickey.
There's a small chance that she'll accept this if she doesn't poke
about too much.



Every now and then I have to go on her computer to do something for her,
and if I have to go onto the web, I have to use Edge. I hate it.


So maybe you could install FF as an additional choice but don't tell
her? Then you could use it but wifey doesn't need to know it's even
there.



Yes, I've thought about doing that several times, but I've never done
it. Maybe I will, one of these days. I could even tell her I've done it;
she wouldn't mind, as long as she could still use the Edge she's
accustomed to.


You may put a *FOLDER* on her desktop called "Tools" and put inside
it all of the icons for the tools you use. You could even put inside
it a PortableApps starty icon and keep your browser on a USB stick.
That way, even your colour schemes, favourites and security settings
travel with you between machines.

I did that for my sister so she could use her children's boxen but
she never used the stick. I think she still has the folder sitting
there, unused.

Unless Win-ten has deleted as unwanted?

J.



--
Ken
  #13  
Old September 10th 20, 03:33 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Blake[_7_]
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Posts: 569
Default The Strange abd Mysterious World of Win10 Updates

On 9/10/2020 5:33 AM, John wrote:
On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 16:37:44 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On 9/9/2020 3:25 PM, John Doe wrote:

Does anybody on a PC actually use a Microsoft browser nowadays?



I don't (I greatly prefer FireFox), but *many* people use Edge. They use
Edge because it's the default in Windows 10, and they either don't know
they have a choice or are to lazy to change from the default.


My sister is one of the former. She's not entirely sure what a
"browser" is. Nor, really, does she understand file systems, storage,
RAM or hard drives. Her only save space is her desktop so she loses
stuff when Win-ten tidies up.

She is, however and unfortunately, a bloody wizard at clicking on
things in emails so browser "helper" objects get installed.


My wife is one of those who use Edge. I've tried to convince her that
Edge is terrible, FireFox is much better, and she should change, but she
won't. I don't understand why.


Maybe because "it doesn't work right", or "it's not THE INTERNET" or
it's not the clicky in the top left corner with the big "E". Perhaps
if you changed the icon for FF to the one Edge uses, replaced the Edge
icon's position with FF and labeled FF's title header as "THE
INTERNET" she might like it more.

Your wife doesn't sound *stupid*, just reluctant to change. This is
not a rare thing. If she doesn't know she's had a change done, she may
grow to like it.

You could even tell her the "new Edge" is an update from Mickey.
There's a small chance that she'll accept this if she doesn't poke
about too much.



Every now and then I have to go on her computer to do something for her,
and if I have to go onto the web, I have to use Edge. I hate it.


So maybe you could install FF as an additional choice but don't tell
her? Then you could use it but wifey doesn't need to know it's even
there.

You may put a *FOLDER* on her desktop called "Tools" and put inside
it all of the icons for the tools you use. You could even put inside
it a PortableApps starty icon and keep your browser on a USB stick.
That way, even your colour schemes, favourites and security settings
travel with you between machines.



I forgot to mention that I don't have any colour schemes or favourites.
I'm in the USA, and none of us here have those. ;-)

--
Ken
  #14  
Old September 10th 20, 06:46 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
John[_92_]
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Posts: 515
Default The Strange abd Mysterious World of Win10 Updates

On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 07:31:01 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On 9/10/2020 5:33 AM, John wrote:
On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 16:37:44 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On 9/9/2020 3:25 PM, John Doe wrote:

Does anybody on a PC actually use a Microsoft browser nowadays?


I don't (I greatly prefer FireFox), but *many* people use Edge. They use
Edge because it's the default in Windows 10, and they either don't know
they have a choice or are to lazy to change from the default.


My sister is one of the former. She's not entirely sure what a
"browser" is. Nor, really, does she understand file systems, storage,
RAM or hard drives. Her only save space is her desktop so she loses
stuff when Win-ten tidies up.

She is, however and unfortunately, a bloody wizard at clicking on
things in emails so browser "helper" objects get installed.


My wife is one of those who use Edge. I've tried to convince her that
Edge is terrible, FireFox is much better, and she should change, but she
won't. I don't understand why.


Maybe because "it doesn't work right", or "it's not THE INTERNET" or
it's not the clicky in the top left corner with the big "E".



No, none of those. I've shown her FireFox and showed her what I thought
was better about it, but she ignored my advice and stayed with Edge.


Interesting. See below for *the* explanation.



Perhaps
if you changed the icon for FF to the one Edge uses, replaced the Edge
icon's position with FF and labeled FF's title header as "THE
INTERNET" she might like it more.



She might not even notice it was not Edge. But I won't do that. If she's
happy with Edge, I'll let it be.


Oh, you're nice not sneaky. Okay, that's fine, too.



Your wife doesn't sound *stupid*, just reluctant to change. This is
not a rare thing. If she doesn't know she's had a change done, she may
grow to like it.




Yes, reluctant to change, but she's also stupid when it comes to
computers. She makes the same mistakes over, and over and when I explain
what she did wrong, it stays in her brain for a full six or seven seconds.


Aaaaaaahhhh! I *see* the issue.

You married a cat.

She may be a biped and human shaped but inside, that is a cat.

I've met cats. This is definitely one of them. They can be the
brightest, quickest, most loving, lovable and personable critters but
they out-stubborn basalt sea-floor. When a cat has its mind set on
something the laws of Physics have no chance of deterring it.

She's a cat.

You are a fortunate man.


If I were to die, and she didn't have someone to fix things for her,
she'd have an unusable computer in a very short time.


Tell her about Usenet, point her here and she won't need you any
more. Cats only domesticated humans because humans have thumbs and can
open tins. Create a paw-activated tin-opener and humans become
redundant.




I do all our financial record keeping in Quicken. She wanted to take it
over and do it instead of me. I said "no way." She'd have it all f*cked
up in a day or two.


I used to do ours but only because my great and wondrous lady could
never be bothered. I set up her web-banking, too. The only time she
ever touched it was when I called the bank for help. Wifey merely
confirmed her identity then left it all to me.

It may seem rather medieval, Victorian, male patriarchy and stuff but
it worked for her.

I was also the tech support for anything with a processor but she
could rewire a house. She wasn't thick, she just didn't want to do
certain stuff.

We divided the work. It worked for us.




You could even tell her the "new Edge" is an update from Mickey.
There's a small chance that she'll accept this if she doesn't poke
about too much.



Every now and then I have to go on her computer to do something for her,
and if I have to go onto the web, I have to use Edge. I hate it.


So maybe you could install FF as an additional choice but don't tell
her? Then you could use it but wifey doesn't need to know it's even
there.



Yes, I've thought about doing that several times, but I've never done
it. Maybe I will, one of these days. I could even tell her I've done it;
she wouldn't mind, as long as she could still use the Edge she's
accustomed to.


She sounds like a nice lady. Hug her a bit, I found out that they
tend to like random hugs given for no reason. Random presents, too.
Maybe if you install a huge bank of recipes as well as FF, a D.I.Y.
program for designing and renovating interiors, gardens and entire
houses, every car manual available with a HTML index and a few other
thingys she might notice FF less.

Maybe not. Cats *can* be distracted but there is never any guarantee
that any particular trick will work.



You may put a *FOLDER* on her desktop called "Tools" and put inside
it all of the icons for the tools you use. You could even put inside
it a PortableApps starty icon and keep your browser on a USB stick.
That way, even your colour schemes, favourites and security settings
travel with you between machines.


A good suggestion, or not?

I can't tell any more as I don't work with many people any longer.
The ones I do work with are bright enough but, like your nice lady,
aren't interested in learning tech.

I sometimes miss some of the interactions I had when working. Not
enough to bestir my arse into rejoining the workforce, just in a sort
of nostalgic for a distant trilobite-infested land sort of way.

J.

  #15  
Old September 10th 20, 06:53 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Frank Slootweg
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Posts: 1,226
Default The Strange abd Mysterious World of Win10 Updates

Ken Blake wrote:
[...]

I forgot to mention that I don't have any colour schemes or favourites.
I'm in the USA, and none of us here have those. ;-)


You should get my computer! In File Explorer, I have (Desktop - Frank
-) 'Favourites', but if I open that folder and click on the 'address
bar', FE says 'C:\Users\Frank\Favorites'. So it switches between both
sides of the pond! :-)


Yes, I know why that is and how that works.
 




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