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ASR with No Floppy



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 6th 07, 12:18 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics
Jerry Foley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default ASR with No Floppy

How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd rw but
no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB drive.
Thanks
Jerry
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  #2  
Old July 6th 07, 01:46 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics
John John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,149
Default ASR with No Floppy

Jerry Foley wrote:

How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd rw but
no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB drive.


Copy the asr.sif and asrpnp.sif files located in the %systemroot%\repair
directory to another computer with a floppy drive, then copy those files
onto a floppy disk.

http://search.microsoft.com/results....-US&q=asr.sif+

You cannot do an ASR Restore without a floppy diskette so relying on the
above may be tantamount to having a spare tire but no wheel wrench to
change the tire, you're in a fine pickle if you get a flat in the middle
of nowhere at midnight! Usually when you need to rely on ASR to restore
your computer things are not going too well and all you need is another
hassle like having to run about trying to find a diskette drive for the
computer! A fine annoying mess on a fine Saturday morning at 1:00AM!
Fit the computer with a floppy drive now, they only cost about $10. If
you cannot fit a floppy to the computer get a USB floppy drive, but be
aware that only a handful of USB floppies are compatible with the ASR
restore process: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/916196 If you do get
a USB drive test it before disaster strikes!

John

  #3  
Old July 6th 07, 04:01 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics
Harry Ohrn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 572
Default ASR with No Floppy

Isn't the NTBackup program a real POS? Because creating system backups is so
important (at least to me) I strongly urge people to find a decent third
party imaging program. My personal favourite is Acronis TrueImage. No floppy
drive required and you can burn the system image directly to DVD or a USB
drive and restore from them easily as well.

--


Harry Ohrn MS MVP [Shell\User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp


"Jerry Foley" wrote in message
...
How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd rw
but
no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB
drive.
Thanks
Jerry



  #4  
Old July 6th 07, 04:57 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics
Sharon F
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 480
Default ASR with No Floppy

On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 04:18:01 -0700, Jerry Foley wrote:

How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd rw but
no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB drive.
Thanks
Jerry


I agree with Harry. The best thing (only thing) going for NTBackup is that
it's free. Even if you do have a floppy drive there are many more elegant
solutions available at various price levels. I also like Acronis. Although
it is primarily a complete recovery solution, it can be relied on for
backup too as its own "explorer" can be used to full out a few folders or
files from the larger image.

--
Sharon F
MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User
  #5  
Old July 6th 07, 07:12 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics
Vanguard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 303
Default ASR with No Floppy

"Jerry Foley" wrote in message
...
How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd
rw but
no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB
drive.



My recollection of ASR is that it simply helped direct a minimal fresh
install of Windows which then ran the restore from the full backup
(required) along with any incremental or differentials after the full
backup and then rebooted to give you your full Windows setup again
(well, as near to the setup that you had when using logical file backups
versus sector-by-sector partition images). Wow, golly gee, what a big
load of nothing. Just do a fresh install of Windows yourself using the
installation CD (or restore image) and then do the restore(s) yourself.
Obviously since Windows gets reinstalled as a fresh copy whether using
ASR or doing it manually yourself, your backups must be in a different
partition or different media than the one in which the OS resided and
where it is getting reinstalled.

  #6  
Old July 6th 07, 08:15 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics
Jim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,175
Default ASR with No Floppy


"Jerry Foley" wrote in message
...
How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd rw
but
no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB
drive.
Thanks
Jerry

You buy am external floppy drive which you connect via USB.
Jim


  #7  
Old July 7th 07, 01:59 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics
Mike Hall - MVP
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 402
Default ASR with No Floppy

Whoa up, y'all. NTBackup is not that bad. It may not be overly useful for
the average home user, but it does have it uses in the right places.

Acronis TrueImage is not always the answer either. How many average users
make an image of a system having just set it up fresh? More often that not,
they don't. They wait until they are having problems.

Images made like this reintroduce the same problems, and wipe out any
subsequent data added since the image was made, just as the manufacturer
'restore to factory' procedure does. Ask a user if they have tested an
image, and they just look at you blandly.

Manufacturers supply routines to backup a new system, but answers range from
'I didn't have any CDs/DVDs to 'I didn't understand it/couldn't be bothered
to read it' to 'I stopped it in MSCONFIG because it was annoying me'.

Maybe the fault lies with us all because we are using the wrong terminology.
When 'backup' is mentioned, users will start looking for programs that have
'backup' in their names or descriptions, and they will end up down the road
of being tied to a procedure they do not fully understand, and where the
procedure is being used as a cure instead of prevention. Instead of 'backing
up', we should refer to 'making an image' where an OS and support programs
are concerned, and 'save' or 'copy' regarding user data.

In this way, the users will look towards programs like Acronis TrueImage and
Nero/Roxio rather than the more arcane solutions used in the very different
environment of industry/commerce.


"Jim" wrote in message
. net...

"Jerry Foley" wrote in message
...
How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd rw
but
no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB
drive.
Thanks
Jerry

You buy am external floppy drive which you connect via USB.
Jim


--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/



  #8  
Old July 7th 07, 04:53 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics
Harry Ohrn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 572
Default ASR with No Floppy

Mike I agree with everything you said except the part about "Whoa up, y'all.
NTBackup is not that bad". It is a POS and likely the reason it isn't
including during XP Home setup. It was probably hidden away in the ValueAdd
directory of some XP Home setup disks due to an arrangement with the
distributor of the app that Microsoft has to honour. Some OEM's didn't
bother to include it at all which could reinforce my previous point.

NTBackup from the XP Home version, if it is manually installed, can not
restore backups made by earlier versions of the same program, can not
complete an ASR, can not burn to an optical drive, can not be used without a
floppy drive, can not split large files into segments. It seems this program
has more 'can not's' than 'can do's'. In my opinion that classifies it to be
at the top of the POS list of backup programs.

--


Harry Ohrn MS MVP [Shell\User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp


"Mike Hall - MVP" wrote in message
...
Whoa up, y'all. NTBackup is not that bad. It may not be overly useful for
the average home user, but it does have it uses in the right places.

Acronis TrueImage is not always the answer either. How many average users
make an image of a system having just set it up fresh? More often that
not, they don't. They wait until they are having problems.

Images made like this reintroduce the same problems, and wipe out any
subsequent data added since the image was made, just as the manufacturer
'restore to factory' procedure does. Ask a user if they have tested an
image, and they just look at you blandly.

Manufacturers supply routines to backup a new system, but answers range
from 'I didn't have any CDs/DVDs to 'I didn't understand it/couldn't be
bothered to read it' to 'I stopped it in MSCONFIG because it was annoying
me'.

Maybe the fault lies with us all because we are using the wrong
terminology. When 'backup' is mentioned, users will start looking for
programs that have 'backup' in their names or descriptions, and they will
end up down the road of being tied to a procedure they do not fully
understand, and where the procedure is being used as a cure instead of
prevention. Instead of 'backing up', we should refer to 'making an image'
where an OS and support programs are concerned, and 'save' or 'copy'
regarding user data.

In this way, the users will look towards programs like Acronis TrueImage
and Nero/Roxio rather than the more arcane solutions used in the very
different environment of industry/commerce.


"Jim" wrote in message
. net...

"Jerry Foley" wrote in message
...
How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd rw
but
no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB
drive.
Thanks
Jerry

You buy am external floppy drive which you connect via USB.
Jim


--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/





  #9  
Old July 7th 07, 06:57 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics
Vanguard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 303
Default ASR with No Floppy

"Mike Hall - MVP" wrote in message
...
Whoa up, y'all. NTBackup is not that bad. It may not be overly useful
for the average home user, but it does have it uses in the right
places.

Acronis TrueImage is not always the answer either. How many average
users make an image of a system having just set it up fresh? More
often that not, they don't. They wait until they are having problems.


snip

What has any of that got to do with the OP's question? He wants to use
ASR which performs logical file restore (after installing a minimal
instance of Windows). ASR needs the floppy, the Windows install CD, and
the .bkf backup files. ASR is going to wipe out whatever was there and
perform a restore from the logical file backup files. Okay, and with
ANY backups (logical file or physical sector), the user will lose any
changes or files that were created after the last backup.

You remark about when users save partition images. Well, those same
users don't perform logical file backups on a daily basis, either. Even
if the backups were performed daily, you still lose any files that were
changed after the last backup. Windows (pre-Vista) has no file
versioning system; i.e., when you change or delete files, there is no
old copy left around from which you can recover. I've heard the Vista
tries to do a basic file versioning scheme but it really is just an
automatic backup scheme and is still not the same as a file versioning
system. So no matter what scheme a Windows user uses, they can and
probably will lose files, especially the latest created or modified
files.

As far as asking users when they last saved a partition image and
getting a blank look from them, asking them when they last did a
[logical file] backup also gets the "deer caught in headlights" stare
from them. If a user knows about performing backups and does them
regularly, if not daily or before and after every major OS or app
change, then they already know when it is appropriate to do the restores
and what they will lose in those restores.

  #10  
Old July 9th 07, 01:42 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics
Mike Hall - MVP
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 402
Default ASR with No Floppy

I wasn't replying to the OP.. I was making some points to those who
answered..

There are many people out there who do not really understand the concept of
backing up, making images, saving data.. they do not know what to programs
to use, or how to recover the data.. they start procedures which are not
applicable to what they are trying to achieve.. they are presented with
options for which there is no obvious answer and most likely at a time when
they can't use the computer to find a good one..

My point was that we are failing these people.. the arcane messages and
instructions that come up on screen are failing these people..


"Vanguard" wrote in message
...
"Mike Hall - MVP" wrote in message
...
Whoa up, y'all. NTBackup is not that bad. It may not be overly useful for
the average home user, but it does have it uses in the right places.

Acronis TrueImage is not always the answer either. How many average users
make an image of a system having just set it up fresh? More often that
not, they don't. They wait until they are having problems.


snip

What has any of that got to do with the OP's question? He wants to use
ASR which performs logical file restore (after installing a minimal
instance of Windows). ASR needs the floppy, the Windows install CD, and
the .bkf backup files. ASR is going to wipe out whatever was there and
perform a restore from the logical file backup files. Okay, and with ANY
backups (logical file or physical sector), the user will lose any changes
or files that were created after the last backup.

You remark about when users save partition images. Well, those same users
don't perform logical file backups on a daily basis, either. Even if the
backups were performed daily, you still lose any files that were changed
after the last backup. Windows (pre-Vista) has no file versioning system;
i.e., when you change or delete files, there is no old copy left around
from which you can recover. I've heard the Vista tries to do a basic file
versioning scheme but it really is just an automatic backup scheme and is
still not the same as a file versioning system. So no matter what scheme
a Windows user uses, they can and probably will lose files, especially the
latest created or modified files.

As far as asking users when they last saved a partition image and getting
a blank look from them, asking them when they last did a [logical file]
backup also gets the "deer caught in headlights" stare from them. If a
user knows about performing backups and does them regularly, if not daily
or before and after every major OS or app change, then they already know
when it is appropriate to do the restores and what they will lose in those
restores.


--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/



  #11  
Old July 9th 07, 01:50 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics
Mike Hall - MVP
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 402
Default ASR with No Floppy

Harry

None of the versions of MS Backup were ever compatible with each other.. I
remember problems cropping up when users moved from Win 95 to Win 98 to Win
ME to XP.. they find a backup disk from the old days (the easy part) but
have all kinds of problems finding a computer with the older OS running and
to which they can get access..

I have never been given a reasonable answer as to why MS Backup was not
compatible in any direction.. however, I was told by a Sys Admin one time
that NTBackup was very good if used in the right environment.. my remark re
'what planet did this apply to' ended the conversation abruptly, so I am
still somewhat in the dark..


"Harry Ohrn" wrote in message
...
Mike I agree with everything you said except the part about "Whoa up,
y'all. NTBackup is not that bad". It is a POS and likely the reason it
isn't including during XP Home setup. It was probably hidden away in the
ValueAdd directory of some XP Home setup disks due to an arrangement with
the distributor of the app that Microsoft has to honour. Some OEM's didn't
bother to include it at all which could reinforce my previous point.

NTBackup from the XP Home version, if it is manually installed, can not
restore backups made by earlier versions of the same program, can not
complete an ASR, can not burn to an optical drive, can not be used without
a floppy drive, can not split large files into segments. It seems this
program has more 'can not's' than 'can do's'. In my opinion that
classifies it to be at the top of the POS list of backup programs.

--


Harry Ohrn MS MVP [Shell\User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp


"Mike Hall - MVP" wrote in message
...
Whoa up, y'all. NTBackup is not that bad. It may not be overly useful for
the average home user, but it does have it uses in the right places.

Acronis TrueImage is not always the answer either. How many average users
make an image of a system having just set it up fresh? More often that
not, they don't. They wait until they are having problems.

Images made like this reintroduce the same problems, and wipe out any
subsequent data added since the image was made, just as the manufacturer
'restore to factory' procedure does. Ask a user if they have tested an
image, and they just look at you blandly.

Manufacturers supply routines to backup a new system, but answers range
from 'I didn't have any CDs/DVDs to 'I didn't understand it/couldn't be
bothered to read it' to 'I stopped it in MSCONFIG because it was annoying
me'.

Maybe the fault lies with us all because we are using the wrong
terminology. When 'backup' is mentioned, users will start looking for
programs that have 'backup' in their names or descriptions, and they will
end up down the road of being tied to a procedure they do not fully
understand, and where the procedure is being used as a cure instead of
prevention. Instead of 'backing up', we should refer to 'making an image'
where an OS and support programs are concerned, and 'save' or 'copy'
regarding user data.

In this way, the users will look towards programs like Acronis TrueImage
and Nero/Roxio rather than the more arcane solutions used in the very
different environment of industry/commerce.


"Jim" wrote in message
. net...

"Jerry Foley" wrote in message
...
How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd
rw but
no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB
drive.
Thanks
Jerry
You buy am external floppy drive which you connect via USB.
Jim


--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/






--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/



  #12  
Old July 10th 07, 05:56 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics
Vanguard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 303
Default ASR with No Floppy

"Mike Hall - MVP" wrote in message
...

My point was that we are failing these people.. the arcane messages
and instructions that come up on screen are failing these people..


Unfortunately the software developers cannot force users to read the
documentation (hardcopy or included in the product). Hell, most users
will skip by the EULA as fast as they can scroll or click.

  #13  
Old July 11th 07, 01:56 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics
Mike Hall - MVP
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 402
Default ASR with No Floppy

I have my keyboard scroll button set just for that purpose.. :-)


"Vanguard" wrote in message
...
"Mike Hall - MVP" wrote in message
...

My point was that we are failing these people.. the arcane messages and
instructions that come up on screen are failing these people..


Unfortunately the software developers cannot force users to read the
documentation (hardcopy or included in the product). Hell, most users
will skip by the EULA as fast as they can scroll or click.


--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/



  #14  
Old May 2nd 11, 06:31 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics
Earl H
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default ASR with No Floppy


Try burning an image of the ASR floppy to CD, thus fooling win into thinking you have a floppy. There is also virtual floppy software at download.com. My first choice would be to avoid the floppy entirely by installing a virgin copy of windows and run restore using that.

On Friday, July 06, 2007 7:18 AM JerryFole wrote:


How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd rw but
no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB drive.
Thanks
Jerry



On Friday, July 06, 2007 8:46 AM John John wrote:


Jerry Foley wrote:


Copy the asr.sif and asrpnp.sif files located in the %systemroot%\repair
directory to another computer with a floppy drive, then copy those files
onto a floppy disk.

http://search.microsoft.com/results....-US&q=asr.sif+

You cannot do an ASR Restore without a floppy diskette so relying on the
above may be tantamount to having a spare tire but no wheel wrench to
change the tire, you're in a fine pickle if you get a flat in the middle
of nowhere at midnight! Usually when you need to rely on ASR to restore
your computer things are not going too well and all you need is another
hassle like having to run about trying to find a diskette drive for the
computer! A fine annoying mess on a fine Saturday morning at 1:00AM!
Fit the computer with a floppy drive now, they only cost about $10. If
you cannot fit a floppy to the computer get a USB floppy drive, but be
aware that only a handful of USB floppies are compatible with the ASR
restore process: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/916196 If you do get
a USB drive test it before disaster strikes!

John



On Friday, July 06, 2007 11:01 AM Harry Ohrn wrote:


Isn't the NTBackup program a real POS? Because creating system backups is so
important (at least to me) I strongly urge people to find a decent third
party imaging program. My personal favourite is Acronis TrueImage. No floppy
drive required and you can burn the system image directly to DVD or a USB
drive and restore from them easily as well.

--


Harry Ohrn MS MVP [Shell\User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp


"Jerry Foley" wrote in message
...



On Friday, July 06, 2007 11:57 AM Sharon F wrote:


On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 04:18:01 -0700, Jerry Foley wrote:


I agree with Harry. The best thing (only thing) going for NTBackup is that
it's free. Even if you do have a floppy drive there are many more elegant
solutions available at various price levels. I also like Acronis. Although
it is primarily a complete recovery solution, it can be relied on for
backup too as its own "explorer" can be used to full out a few folders or
files from the larger image.

--
Sharon F
MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User



On Friday, July 06, 2007 2:12 PM Vanguard wrote:


"Jerry Foley" wrote in message
...


My recollection of ASR is that it simply helped direct a minimal fresh
install of Windows which then ran the restore from the full backup
(required) along with any incremental or differentials after the full
backup and then rebooted to give you your full Windows setup again
(well, as near to the setup that you had when using logical file backups
versus sector-by-sector partition images). Wow, golly gee, what a big
load of nothing. Just do a fresh install of Windows yourself using the
installation CD (or restore image) and then do the restore(s) yourself.
Obviously since Windows gets reinstalled as a fresh copy whether using
ASR or doing it manually yourself, your backups must be in a different
partition or different media than the one in which the OS resided and
where it is getting reinstalled.



On Friday, July 06, 2007 3:15 PM Jim wrote:


You buy am external floppy drive which you connect via USB.
Jim



On Saturday, July 07, 2007 8:59 AM Mike Hall - MVP wrote:


Whoa up, y'all. NTBackup is not that bad. It may not be overly useful for
the average home user, but it does have it uses in the right places.

Acronis TrueImage is not always the answer either. How many average users
make an image of a system having just set it up fresh? More often that not,
they don't. They wait until they are having problems.

Images made like this reintroduce the same problems, and wipe out any
subsequent data added since the image was made, just as the manufacturer
'restore to factory' procedure does. Ask a user if they have tested an
image, and they just look at you blandly.

Manufacturers supply routines to backup a new system, but answers range from
'I didn't have any CDs/DVDs to 'I didn't understand it/couldn't be bothered
to read it' to 'I stopped it in MSCONFIG because it was annoying me'.

Maybe the fault lies with us all because we are using the wrong terminology.
When 'backup' is mentioned, users will start looking for programs that have
'backup' in their names or descriptions, and they will end up down the road
of being tied to a procedure they do not fully understand, and where the
procedure is being used as a cure instead of prevention. Instead of 'backing
up', we should refer to 'making an image' where an OS and support programs
are concerned, and 'save' or 'copy' regarding user data.

In this way, the users will look towards programs like Acronis TrueImage and
Nero/Roxio rather than the more arcane solutions used in the very different
environment of industry/commerce.


"Jim" wrote in message
. net...

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/



On Saturday, July 07, 2007 11:53 AM Harry Ohrn wrote:


Mike I agree with everything you said except the part about "Whoa up, y'all.
NTBackup is not that bad". It is a POS and likely the reason it isn't
including during XP Home setup. It was probably hidden away in the ValueAdd
directory of some XP Home setup disks due to an arrangement with the
distributor of the app that Microsoft has to honour. Some OEM's didn't
bother to include it at all which could reinforce my previous point.

NTBackup from the XP Home version, if it is manually installed, can not
restore backups made by earlier versions of the same program, can not
complete an ASR, can not burn to an optical drive, can not be used without a
floppy drive, can not split large files into segments. It seems this program
has more 'can not's' than 'can do's'. In my opinion that classifies it to be
at the top of the POS list of backup programs.

--


Harry Ohrn MS MVP [Shell\User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp


"Mike Hall - MVP" wrote in message
...



On Saturday, July 07, 2007 1:57 PM Vanguard wrote:


"Mike Hall - MVP" wrote in message
...

snip

What has any of that got to do with the OP's question? He wants to use
ASR which performs logical file restore (after installing a minimal
instance of Windows). ASR needs the floppy, the Windows install CD, and
the .bkf backup files. ASR is going to wipe out whatever was there and
perform a restore from the logical file backup files. Okay, and with
ANY backups (logical file or physical sector), the user will lose any
changes or files that were created after the last backup.

You remark about when users save partition images. Well, those same
users don't perform logical file backups on a daily basis, either. Even
if the backups were performed daily, you still lose any files that were
changed after the last backup. Windows (pre-Vista) has no file
versioning system; i.e., when you change or delete files, there is no
old copy left around from which you can recover. I've heard the Vista
tries to do a basic file versioning scheme but it really is just an
automatic backup scheme and is still not the same as a file versioning
system. So no matter what scheme a Windows user uses, they can and
probably will lose files, especially the latest created or modified
files.

As far as asking users when they last saved a partition image and
getting a blank look from them, asking them when they last did a
[logical file] backup also gets the "deer caught in headlights" stare
from them. If a user knows about performing backups and does them
regularly, if not daily or before and after every major OS or app
change, then they already know when it is appropriate to do the restores
and what they will lose in those restores.



On Monday, July 09, 2007 8:42 AM Mike Hall - MVP wrote:


I wasn't replying to the OP.. I was making some points to those who
answered..

There are many people out there who do not really understand the concept of
backing up, making images, saving data.. they do not know what to programs
to use, or how to recover the data.. they start procedures which are not
applicable to what they are trying to achieve.. they are presented with
options for which there is no obvious answer and most likely at a time when
they can't use the computer to find a good one..

My point was that we are failing these people.. the arcane messages and
instructions that come up on screen are failing these people..


"Vanguard" wrote in message
...

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/



On Monday, July 09, 2007 8:50 AM Mike Hall - MVP wrote:


Harry

None of the versions of MS Backup were ever compatible with each other.. I
remember problems cropping up when users moved from Win 95 to Win 98 to Win
ME to XP.. they find a backup disk from the old days (the easy part) but
have all kinds of problems finding a computer with the older OS running and
to which they can get access..

I have never been given a reasonable answer as to why MS Backup was not
compatible in any direction.. however, I was told by a Sys Admin one time
that NTBackup was very good if used in the right environment.. my remark re
'what planet did this apply to' ended the conversation abruptly, so I am
still somewhat in the dark..


"Harry Ohrn" wrote in message
...

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/



On Tuesday, July 10, 2007 12:56 AM Vanguard wrote:


"Mike Hall - MVP" wrote in message
...

Unfortunately the software developers cannot force users to read the
documentation (hardcopy or included in the product). Hell, most users
will skip by the EULA as fast as they can scroll or click.



On Tuesday, July 10, 2007 8:56 PM Mike Hall - MVP wrote:


I have my keyboard scroll button set just for that purpose.. :-)



--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/




  #15  
Old May 3rd 11, 03:23 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics
Jack Toff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default ASR with No Floppy

Dodo: Did you even bother to look at the date of the post you replied
to? Do you really think the OP is coming back to look for your reply
from the post made in 2007? What a trip you must be on!

On 5/2/2011 12:31 PM, Earl H wrote:
Try burning an image of the ASR floppy to CD, thus fooling win into thinking you have a floppy. There is also virtual floppy software at download.com. My first choice would be to avoid the floppy entirely by installing a virgin copy of windows and run restore using that.

On Friday, July 06, 2007 7:18 AM JerryFole wrote:


How do I create an ASR floppy without a floppy drive? I have a dvd/cd rw but
no floppy. I use the backup utility from XP to an external USB 500GB drive.
Thanks
Jerry



On Friday, July 06, 2007 8:46 AM John John wrote:


Jerry Foley wrote:


Copy the asr.sif and asrpnp.sif files located in the %systemroot%\repair
directory to another computer with a floppy drive, then copy those files
onto a floppy disk.

http://search.microsoft.com/results....-US&q=asr.sif+

You cannot do an ASR Restore without a floppy diskette so relying on the
above may be tantamount to having a spare tire but no wheel wrench to
change the tire, you're in a fine pickle if you get a flat in the middle
of nowhere at midnight! Usually when you need to rely on ASR to restore
your computer things are not going too well and all you need is another
hassle like having to run about trying to find a diskette drive for the
computer! A fine annoying mess on a fine Saturday morning at 1:00AM!
Fit the computer with a floppy drive now, they only cost about $10. If
you cannot fit a floppy to the computer get a USB floppy drive, but be
aware that only a handful of USB floppies are compatible with the ASR
restore process: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/916196 If you do get
a USB drive test it before disaster strikes!

John



On Friday, July 06, 2007 11:01 AM Harry Ohrn wrote:


Isn't the NTBackup program a real POS? Because creating system backups is so
important (at least to me) I strongly urge people to find a decent third
party imaging program. My personal favourite is Acronis TrueImage. No floppy
drive required and you can burn the system image directly to DVD or a USB
drive and restore from them easily as well.

--


Harry Ohrn MS MVP [Shell\User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp


"Jerry wrote in message
...



On Friday, July 06, 2007 11:57 AM Sharon F wrote:


On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 04:18:01 -0700, Jerry Foley wrote:


I agree with Harry. The best thing (only thing) going for NTBackup is that
it's free. Even if you do have a floppy drive there are many more elegant
solutions available at various price levels. I also like Acronis. Although
it is primarily a complete recovery solution, it can be relied on for
backup too as its own "explorer" can be used to full out a few folders or
files from the larger image.

--
Sharon F
MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User



On Friday, July 06, 2007 2:12 PM Vanguard wrote:


"Jerry Foley" wrote in message
...


My recollection of ASR is that it simply helped direct a minimal fresh
install of Windows which then ran the restore from the full backup
(required) along with any incremental or differentials after the full
backup and then rebooted to give you your full Windows setup again
(well, as near to the setup that you had when using logical file backups
versus sector-by-sector partition images). Wow, golly gee, what a big
load of nothing. Just do a fresh install of Windows yourself using the
installation CD (or restore image) and then do the restore(s) yourself.
Obviously since Windows gets reinstalled as a fresh copy whether using
ASR or doing it manually yourself, your backups must be in a different
partition or different media than the one in which the OS resided and
where it is getting reinstalled.



On Friday, July 06, 2007 3:15 PM Jim wrote:


You buy am external floppy drive which you connect via USB.
Jim



On Saturday, July 07, 2007 8:59 AM Mike Hall - MVP wrote:


Whoa up, y'all. NTBackup is not that bad. It may not be overly useful for
the average home user, but it does have it uses in the right places.

Acronis TrueImage is not always the answer either. How many average users
make an image of a system having just set it up fresh? More often that not,
they don't. They wait until they are having problems.

Images made like this reintroduce the same problems, and wipe out any
subsequent data added since the image was made, just as the manufacturer
'restore to factory' procedure does. Ask a user if they have tested an
image, and they just look at you blandly.

Manufacturers supply routines to backup a new system, but answers range from
'I didn't have any CDs/DVDs to 'I didn't understand it/couldn't be bothered
to read it' to 'I stopped it in MSCONFIG because it was annoying me'.

Maybe the fault lies with us all because we are using the wrong terminology.
When 'backup' is mentioned, users will start looking for programs that have
'backup' in their names or descriptions, and they will end up down the road
of being tied to a procedure they do not fully understand, and where the
procedure is being used as a cure instead of prevention. Instead of 'backing
up', we should refer to 'making an image' where an OS and support programs
are concerned, and 'save' or 'copy' regarding user data.

In this way, the users will look towards programs like Acronis TrueImage and
Nero/Roxio rather than the more arcane solutions used in the very different
environment of industry/commerce.


wrote in message
. net...

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/



On Saturday, July 07, 2007 11:53 AM Harry Ohrn wrote:


Mike I agree with everything you said except the part about "Whoa up, y'all.
NTBackup is not that bad". It is a POS and likely the reason it isn't
including during XP Home setup. It was probably hidden away in the ValueAdd
directory of some XP Home setup disks due to an arrangement with the
distributor of the app that Microsoft has to honour. Some OEM's didn't
bother to include it at all which could reinforce my previous point.

NTBackup from the XP Home version, if it is manually installed, can not
restore backups made by earlier versions of the same program, can not
complete an ASR, can not burn to an optical drive, can not be used without a
floppy drive, can not split large files into segments. It seems this program
has more 'can not's' than 'can do's'. In my opinion that classifies it to be
at the top of the POS list of backup programs.

--


Harry Ohrn MS MVP [Shell\User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp


"Mike Hall - wrote in message
...



On Saturday, July 07, 2007 1:57 PM Vanguard wrote:


"Mike Hall - wrote in message
...

snip

What has any of that got to do with the OP's question? He wants to use
ASR which performs logical file restore (after installing a minimal
instance of Windows). ASR needs the floppy, the Windows install CD, and
the .bkf backup files. ASR is going to wipe out whatever was there and
perform a restore from the logical file backup files. Okay, and with
ANY backups (logical file or physical sector), the user will lose any
changes or files that were created after the last backup.

You remark about when users save partition images. Well, those same
users don't perform logical file backups on a daily basis, either. Even
if the backups were performed daily, you still lose any files that were
changed after the last backup. Windows (pre-Vista) has no file
versioning system; i.e., when you change or delete files, there is no
old copy left around from which you can recover. I've heard the Vista
tries to do a basic file versioning scheme but it really is just an
automatic backup scheme and is still not the same as a file versioning
system. So no matter what scheme a Windows user uses, they can and
probably will lose files, especially the latest created or modified
files.

As far as asking users when they last saved a partition image and
getting a blank look from them, asking them when they last did a
[logical file] backup also gets the "deer caught in headlights" stare
from them. If a user knows about performing backups and does them
regularly, if not daily or before and after every major OS or app
change, then they already know when it is appropriate to do the restores
and what they will lose in those restores.



On Monday, July 09, 2007 8:42 AM Mike Hall - MVP wrote:


I wasn't replying to the OP.. I was making some points to those who
answered..

There are many people out there who do not really understand the concept of
backing up, making images, saving data.. they do not know what to programs
to use, or how to recover the data.. they start procedures which are not
applicable to what they are trying to achieve.. they are presented with
options for which there is no obvious answer and most likely at a time when
they can't use the computer to find a good one..

My point was that we are failing these people.. the arcane messages and
instructions that come up on screen are failing these people..


wrote in message
...

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/



On Monday, July 09, 2007 8:50 AM Mike Hall - MVP wrote:


Harry

None of the versions of MS Backup were ever compatible with each other.. I
remember problems cropping up when users moved from Win 95 to Win 98 to Win
ME to XP.. they find a backup disk from the old days (the easy part) but
have all kinds of problems finding a computer with the older OS running and
to which they can get access..

I have never been given a reasonable answer as to why MS Backup was not
compatible in any direction.. however, I was told by a Sys Admin one time
that NTBackup was very good if used in the right environment.. my remark re
'what planet did this apply to' ended the conversation abruptly, so I am
still somewhat in the dark..


"Harry wrote in message
...

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/



On Tuesday, July 10, 2007 12:56 AM Vanguard wrote:


"Mike Hall - MVP" wrote in message
...

Unfortunately the software developers cannot force users to read the
documentation (hardcopy or included in the product). Hell, most users
will skip by the EULA as fast as they can scroll or click.



On Tuesday, July 10, 2007 8:56 PM Mike Hall - MVP wrote:


I have my keyboard scroll button set just for that purpose.. :-)



--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/




 




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