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#31
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No audio output on the front panel
On 30/07/2018 18:51, Ed Cryer wrote:
Fokke Nauta wrote: cut My previous post was sent accidentally, without any comment. If I read it all a-right, you have no proof that either of the two audio channels is working. Correct And that doesn't rule out the possibility that the connection with the mobo is faulty. Yes Added to that, there's no indication from any software (Windows or otherwise) that the channel is recognised. That's correct Ed So - a faulty front panel? Basically, I was looking for configuration errors but can't find anything. And how can a front panel with only connectors and cables be faulty? I made send it back to the supplyer for further investigation. Fokke Here's a good image of your mobo; https://ru.gecid.com/data/mboard/201...e_h270-pro.jpg I have a suggestion, but I don't know whether it's stupid, infeasible or suitably pragmatic. If you could plug your new front panel audio into the audio that's proven working, that might be a test for whether the thing is faulty or not. Ed Nice pic, I could have made it myself :-) I can't plug my front panel into something else, I can only plug it into my motherboard. That's the default audio device. Or am I missing something? Fokke |
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#32
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No audio output on the front panel
On 30/07/2018 19:19, Unsteadyken wrote:
In article , says... The headphone is 35 ohms. Perhaps I can use it as a microphone, to see what the mic input does. Headphones are stereo, Microphones are usually mono, putting a mono plug in stereo socket can cause problems which prevent them making the correct contact. https://www.gollihurmusic.com/faq/51...TEREO_TRS.html Well, that depends. When plugging a stereo headphone into a mic input, the mic input line is connected to one of the ear phones. So at least one is connected and could work as a microphone. And with an impedance of 35 ohms, there is a chance. Fokke |
#33
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No audio output on the front panel
On 30/07/2018 17:15, Paul wrote:
cut Not so simple. http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi...ptember.org%3E This is great stuff, Paul. Thanks. Wasn't aware this could be so complicated. On the Delock cable, the HDAUDIO-labeled end plugs into the motherboard, the other end into the tray. That's how the other Delock picture shows it. https://s33.postimg.cc/lp7shy9hr/delock_cabling.gif Correct! Notice, on the motherboard end, that AGND is tied to PRESENCE#. Delock is making a point of claiming HDAudio sensing, by doing that. Nobody has to use PRESENCE# if they don't want to. Traditional AC'97 Modified AC'97 HDAudio ----------------- (for dual mode) (dual mode or otherwise) MIC2 AGND MIC2 AGND Port1_L AGND MICBIAS +5VA MICBIAS ??? Port1_R PRESENCE# FPOUT_R RET_R FPOUT_R --- Port2_R SENSE1_RETURN HP_ON ??? Sense_Send FPOUT_L RET_L FPOUT_R --- Port2_L SENSE2_RETURN (When not used, had (No jumpers needed (Port names reflect the retaskable two jumper plugs, to on header. No return nature of the jacks. PRESENCE# join FPOUT to RET. signals are needed. signal is grounded, if a real HP_ON and +5VA were Power removed for HDAudio cable assembly is being for an optional non-existent headphone connected.) headphone amplifier.) amplifier. Only five (Port1=stereo microphone wires should really be Port2=32ohm headphones connected, for fault AGND connects to both jacks.) free performance! Leave the return wires dangling.) The Delock has too many wires into the "2x5 minus 1" for it to be a five wire, "sense free" HDAUDIO. It's probably using the resistor sense scheme. I did not count them, but there were more than five. https://s33.postimg.cc/wosztmcsf/HDAudio_sensing.gif Well, ... I come from an electronics background and this is a long time ago ... But I understands how it works. At least I will be able to check if the headphone and mic side switches will be doing their job. At a minimum, a motherboard that claims to have an HDAudio header, should be supporting the sense resistor scheme. Historically, most trays did not have the side-contact switch closure feature. This prevented sensing from working. None of my Antecs have it. In this case, the *user* must configure the sound control panel for FP_Audio Headphones On an Analog Devices codec, those have impedance sensing. They don't need the side contacts to work. A cheaper tip/ring/sleeve 1/8" connector can be used on the tray. BTW, what's an 1/8" connector? I'm familiar with the 2.5, 3.5 and 6,3 mm jacks. The codec injects a 25KHz tone into the jack, and does AC current sensing to detect the presence of a load. Even a 10K ohm input stereo can be detected this way. I've tested this, and the duration of the 25KHz signal is way too long. On a RealTek code, around page 150 of the spec, they will admit they don't have impedance sensing (they hide the admission that far back, in the hope nobody will notice). OK, that's clever that you found it! This is not reported prominently in a feature list somewhere. Analog Devices probably has a patent on their technique, and of course, no competitor wants to buy a license. Two recommendations: 1) Use the *RealTek* software, not the Win10 generic driver. I did This gives a kooky RealTek control panel. It will give better control of the hardware. And note that the software package doesn't do a good job of "exposing" the control panel. Well, that's no problem. I can see the panel whenever I want to. *You* have to figure out the name of the proper executable file. Good luck Obiwan! :-) 2) Plug headphones into the tray. Perhaps there is no reaction from the *RealTek* software. Indeed, no reaction. Don't panic. Force it to put audio on Port1, using the provided RealTek GUI. Don't get it yet, but I'll have a look into it. Aren't computers fun ? Yes, they are, Paul. They keep your mind sharp, as we say in Holland :-) If I had a dime for every computer industry booboo like this, the stack of dimes would crush my computer table. Yes, they would :-) HTH, Paul Thanks, Fokke |
#34
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No audio output on the front panel
On 30/07/2018 22:00, Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-07-30 15:39, Fokke Nauta wrote: On 30/07/2018 18:03, Wolf K wrote: On 2018-07-30 11:03, Fokke Nauta wrote: On 30/07/2018 16:45, Ben Myers wrote: On 7/30/2018 6:19 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote: Hi all, This has got nothing to do with Windows 10, but perhaps you may make me think into the right direction. This is the case: Recently purchased a front panel audio connection bay 3,5". The make is Delock. There are two USB 3.0 connectors and a HD Audio in- and headphone output. There are no electronic devices in this thing, it has connectors and cables only. USB cables are connected to USB 3.0 connectors (20-1 pin) on the motherboard, works fine. The audio cable ia connected to the front panel audio connector (AAFP, 10-1 pins) on the motherboard. Motherboard is Asus Prime H270 Pro. System is W10 Pro 64b. Audio chip is RealTEK ALC 887, default audio output is Realtek High Definition Audio (on the motherboard). In the BIOS the audio chip is enabled. Driver is correctly installed, when playing a music file there is an audio signal at the rear audio output on the motherboard. But there is no signal at the audio output of the front panel. In the Realtek Audio Manager these are ticked: Make front and rear output devices playback different audio streams simultaneously. And: HD Audio front panel. This is what the front panel is, no AC97. So I think there should be a signal on the front panel output, but there isn't. As the frontpanel contains no electronic devices, chances are zero this panel is at fault. But what can it be? Do you have any suggestions? Thanks in advance, Fokke Nauta Right-click the speaker icon in the lower right corner, select "Sounds", click on the "Playback" tab and see if there is a down arrow on the Headphones icon. If so, right-click it and select "Enable". Ben Thanks But there is no headphone icon. Next to the motherboards sound chip, I have two soundcards, under which one with multichannel facilities. Concerning outputs, there are three speaker icons. The Realtek High Definition Audio is the default playback one. In addition there are digital outputs and multichannel outputs, but no headphone icon. Fokke The headphones are included in the speaker. On this system, the icon is a speaker, the label is "Speakers/Headhones". No, not here. I have a Speakers device, ASUS Xonar DG Audio Device, ready. No headphones. It's a sound card. I don't have a sound card. There is a Speakers device, Realtek High Definition Audio Device, default device. This is the mobo audio chip. No headphones. Same chip here. There is a Speakers device, ESI 1010 Audio, ready. It's a second sound card, multichannel. No headphones. Am I missing something? At this point, I have no idea. All the other advice so far agrees with my understanding, such as it is. Sorry I can't help further. Fokke Thanks anyway. I got a lot of advice today, and take everything seriously. And learned a lot again. This usenet is a nice platform to gain good knowledge of all kind of computer thingies. And members are very helpful. Fokke |
#35
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No audio output on the front panel
On 7/30/2018 11:03 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote:
On 30/07/2018 16:45, Ben Myers wrote: On 7/30/2018 6:19 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote: Hi all, This has got nothing to do with Windows 10, but perhaps you may make me think into the right direction. This is the case: Recently purchased a front panel audio connection bay 3,5". The make is Delock. There are two USB 3.0 connectors and a HD Audio in- and headphone output. There are no electronic devices in this thing, it has connectors and cables only. USB cables are connected to USB 3.0 connectors (20-1 pin) on the motherboard, works fine. The audio cable ia connected to the front panel audio connector (AAFP, 10-1 pins) on the motherboard. Motherboard is Asus Prime H270 Pro. System is W10 Pro 64b. Audio chip is RealTEK ALC 887, default audio output is Realtek High Definition Audio (on the motherboard). In the BIOS the audio chip is enabled. Driver is correctly installed, when playing a music file there is an audio signal at the rear audio output on the motherboard. But there is no signal at the audio output of the front panel. In the Realtek Audio Manager these are ticked: Make front and rear output devices playback different audio streams simultaneously. And: HD Audio front panel. This is what the front panel is, no AC97. So I think there should be a signal on the front panel output, but there isn't. As the frontpanel contains no electronic devices, chances are zero this panel is at fault. But what can it be? Do you have any suggestions? Thanks in advance, Fokke Nauta Right-click the speaker icon in the lower right corner, select "Sounds", click on the "Playback" tab and see if there is a down arrow on the Headphones icon.Â* If so, right-click it and select "Enable". Ben Thanks But there is no headphone icon. Next to the motherboards sound chip, I have two soundcards, under which one with multichannel facilities. Concerning outputs, there are three speaker icons. The Realtek High Definition Audio is the default playback one. In addition there are digital outputs and multichannel outputs, but no headphone icon. Fokke Check to make sure you have the most recent driver. Version 6.0.1.8158 https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards...Desk_Download/ Ben |
#36
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No audio output on the front panel
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#37
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No audio output on the front panel
On 7/30/2018 2:40 PM, Fokke Nauta wrote:
On 30/07/2018 20:50, GlowingBlueMist wrote: On 7/30/2018 8:36 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote: On 30/07/2018 15:31, GlowingBlueMist wrote: On 7/30/2018 5:19 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote: Hi all, This has got nothing to do with Windows 10, but perhaps you may make me think into the right direction. This is the case: Recently purchased a front panel audio connection bay 3,5". The make is Delock. There are two USB 3.0 connectors and a HD Audio in- and headphone output. There are no electronic devices in this thing, it has connectors and cables only. USB cables are connected to USB 3.0 connectors (20-1 pin) on the motherboard, works fine. The audio cable ia connected to the front panel audio connector (AAFP, 10-1 pins) on the motherboard. Motherboard is Asus Prime H270 Pro. System is W10 Pro 64b. Audio chip is RealTEK ALC 887, default audio output is Realtek High Definition Audio (on the motherboard). In the BIOS the audio chip is enabled. Driver is correctly installed, when playing a music file there is an audio signal at the rear audio output on the motherboard. But there is no signal at the audio output of the front panel. In the Realtek Audio Manager these are ticked: Make front and rear output devices playback different audio streams simultaneously. And: HD Audio front panel. This is what the front panel is, no AC97. So I think there should be a signal on the front panel output, but there isn't. As the frontpanel contains no electronic devices, chances are zero this panel is at fault. But what can it be? Do you have any suggestions? Thanks in advance, Fokke Nauta You need to find out which audio standard the audio panel is wired for. Is it wired for HD-audio-compliant pin definition or is it wired for Legacy AC'97 Compliant definition? On the panel it says HD audio. See the specifications: https://www.delock.com/produkte/674_.../merkmale.html So it definitely must be HD audio. Factory default has the motherboard configured to use the HD-audio-compliant front panel.Â* I'd suggest going into the motherboard configuration and change it to the AC'97 standard and see if that gets things working for you. As it claims to be HD aaudio, I don't think this would make sense. Fokke Since when does anything PC related need to make sense.Â* When two different companies make the parts anything is possible.Â* I'm just suggesting trying the opposite setting of what ever the motherboard is currently set at.Â* If it does not fix things just put it back and boot again. I'll give it a try. Change the audio driver setting to AC 97. I'll come back on this one. Fokke It's not so much the audio driver settings in Windows but rather the motherboard setting. Those audio pins can be configured two different ways. Hopefully Pauls suggestions can get you working. My thought was just the possibility that the Chinese documentation says one thing but actually means the other. Something I have run into from time to time. Getting rarer with computer translations and such but just something easy to rule out with a change to the motherboard settings and a boot or two. |
#38
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No audio output on the front panel
KenW wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 12:19:33 +0200, Fokke Nauta wrote: Hi all, This has got nothing to do with Windows 10, but perhaps you may make me think into the right direction. This is the case: Recently purchased a front panel audio connection bay 3,5". The make is Delock. There are two USB 3.0 connectors and a HD Audio in- and headphone output. There are no electronic devices in this thing, it has connectors and cables only. USB cables are connected to USB 3.0 connectors (20-1 pin) on the motherboard, works fine. The audio cable ia connected to the front panel audio connector (AAFP, 10-1 pins) on the motherboard. Motherboard is Asus Prime H270 Pro. System is W10 Pro 64b. Audio chip is RealTEK ALC 887, default audio output is Realtek High Definition Audio (on the motherboard). In the BIOS the audio chip is enabled. Driver is correctly installed, when playing a music file there is an audio signal at the rear audio output on the motherboard. But there is no signal at the audio output of the front panel. In the Realtek Audio Manager these are ticked: Make front and rear output devices playback different audio streams simultaneously. And: HD Audio front panel. This is what the front panel is, no AC97. So I think there should be a signal on the front panel output, but there isn't. As the frontpanel contains no electronic devices, chances are zero this panel is at fault. But what can it be? Do you have any suggestions? Thanks in advance, Fokke Nauta Be careful on the motherboard header. Have the Asus book open because the pins can be confusing. BEEN THERE DONE THAT !! The Delock tray cable to the motherboard, has blocking pins on both ends. This means the cable only fits AAFP, and only in the correct orientation. (You can't plug the Delock cable into a USB header for example. Or into a 2x5 serial port header.) You could always be "off by one" if the connector isn't aligned, but the purpose of the blocking pin is to prevent 180 degree rotation by accident. Many mis-alignments are also blocked by the blocking pin. Which I suppose makes it a good thing. If the blocking pin wasn't there, there would be more opportunities for "mischief". Paul |
#39
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No audio output on the front panel
On 31/07/2018 00:59, Unsteadyken wrote:
In article , says... BTW, what's an 1/8" connector? I'm familiar with the 2.5, 3.5 and 6,3 mm jacks. UK Imperial usage. 1/4" and 1/8" is wot we Brits call 6.3mm and 3.5mm TRS Thanks! Fokke |
#40
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No audio output on the front panel
On 31/07/2018 00:45, Ben Myers wrote:
On 7/30/2018 11:03 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote: On 30/07/2018 16:45, Ben Myers wrote: On 7/30/2018 6:19 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote: Hi all, This has got nothing to do with Windows 10, but perhaps you may make me think into the right direction. This is the case: Recently purchased a front panel audio connection bay 3,5". The make is Delock. There are two USB 3.0 connectors and a HD Audio in- and headphone output. There are no electronic devices in this thing, it has connectors and cables only. USB cables are connected to USB 3.0 connectors (20-1 pin) on the motherboard, works fine. The audio cable ia connected to the front panel audio connector (AAFP, 10-1 pins) on the motherboard. Motherboard is Asus Prime H270 Pro. System is W10 Pro 64b. Audio chip is RealTEK ALC 887, default audio output is Realtek High Definition Audio (on the motherboard). In the BIOS the audio chip is enabled. Driver is correctly installed, when playing a music file there is an audio signal at the rear audio output on the motherboard. But there is no signal at the audio output of the front panel. In the Realtek Audio Manager these are ticked: Make front and rear output devices playback different audio streams simultaneously. And: HD Audio front panel. This is what the front panel is, no AC97. So I think there should be a signal on the front panel output, but there isn't. As the frontpanel contains no electronic devices, chances are zero this panel is at fault. But what can it be? Do you have any suggestions? Thanks in advance, Fokke Nauta Right-click the speaker icon in the lower right corner, select "Sounds", click on the "Playback" tab and see if there is a down arrow on the Headphones icon. If so, right-click it and select "Enable". Ben Thanks But there is no headphone icon. Next to the motherboards sound chip, I have two soundcards, under which one with multichannel facilities. Concerning outputs, there are three speaker icons. The Realtek High Definition Audio is the default playback one. In addition there are digital outputs and multichannel outputs, but no headphone icon. Fokke Check to make sure you have the most recent driver. Version 6.0.1.8158 https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards...Desk_Download/ Ben Thanks. I have that driver installed. Fokke |
#41
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No audio output on the front panel
Fokke Nauta wrote:
On 31/07/2018 00:45, Ben Myers wrote: On 7/30/2018 11:03 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote: On 30/07/2018 16:45, Ben Myers wrote: On 7/30/2018 6:19 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote: Hi all, This has got nothing to do with Windows 10, but perhaps you may make me think into the right direction. This is the case: Recently purchased a front panel audio connection bay 3,5". The make is Delock. There are two USB 3.0 connectors and a HD Audio in- and headphone output. There are no electronic devices in this thing, it has connectors and cables only. USB cables are connected to USB 3.0 connectors (20-1 pin) on the motherboard, works fine. The audio cable ia connected to the front panel audio connector (AAFP, 10-1 pins) on the motherboard. Motherboard is Asus Prime H270 Pro. System is W10 Pro 64b. Audio chip is RealTEK ALC 887, default audio output is Realtek High Definition Audio (on the motherboard). In the BIOS the audio chip is enabled. Driver is correctly installed, when playing a music file there is an audio signal at the rear audio output on the motherboard. But there is no signal at the audio output of the front panel. In the Realtek Audio Manager these are ticked: Make front and rear output devices playback different audio streams simultaneously. And: HD Audio front panel. This is what the front panel is, no AC97. So I think there should be a signal on the front panel output, but there isn't. As the frontpanel contains no electronic devices, chances are zero this panel is at fault. But what can it be? Do you have any suggestions? Thanks in advance, Fokke Nauta Right-click the speaker icon in the lower right corner, select "Sounds", click on the "Playback" tab and see if there is a down arrow on the Headphones icon. If so, right-click it and select "Enable". Ben Thanks But there is no headphone icon. Next to the motherboards sound chip, I have two soundcards, under which one with multichannel facilities. Concerning outputs, there are three speaker icons. The Realtek High Definition Audio is the default playback one. In addition there are digital outputs and multichannel outputs, but no headphone icon. Fokke Check to make sure you have the most recent driver. Version 6.0.1.8158 https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards...Desk_Download/ Ben Thanks. I have that driver installed. Fokke Any progress on configuration, or viewing the configuration ? ******* If the CODEC is RealTek brand, RealTek offers download pages for their products. One of the few hardware makers that does a decent job of it. Analog Devices, another maker of sound chips, doesn't even come close to being as customer friendly as RealTek. http://www.realtek.com/downloads/dow...Audio%20Codecs You might want to stick with the Asus download, if the CODEC is "special featured" and has any Dolby capabilities bundled with it. It's unclear how the licensed status of Dolby on these chips, is managed. It's not necessarily managed by PNP info. And I don't know how Realtek authorizes a mobo to have Dolby support. If you're only using the CODEC for headphones or stereo, and don't care about any of the fancy Dolby features, then you can use any installer that works in your OS. Paul |
#42
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No audio output on the front panel
On 31/07/2018 14:25, Paul wrote:
Fokke Nauta wrote: On 31/07/2018 00:45, Ben Myers wrote: On 7/30/2018 11:03 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote: On 30/07/2018 16:45, Ben Myers wrote: On 7/30/2018 6:19 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote: Hi all, This has got nothing to do with Windows 10, but perhaps you may make me think into the right direction. This is the case: Recently purchased a front panel audio connection bay 3,5". The make is Delock. There are two USB 3.0 connectors and a HD Audio in- and headphone output. There are no electronic devices in this thing, it has connectors and cables only. USB cables are connected to USB 3.0 connectors (20-1 pin) on the motherboard, works fine. The audio cable ia connected to the front panel audio connector (AAFP, 10-1 pins) on the motherboard. Motherboard is Asus Prime H270 Pro. System is W10 Pro 64b. Audio chip is RealTEK ALC 887, default audio output is Realtek High Definition Audio (on the motherboard). In the BIOS the audio chip is enabled. Driver is correctly installed, when playing a music file there is an audio signal at the rear audio output on the motherboard. But there is no signal at the audio output of the front panel. In the Realtek Audio Manager these are ticked: Make front and rear output devices playback different audio streams simultaneously. And: HD Audio front panel. This is what the front panel is, no AC97. So I think there should be a signal on the front panel output, but there isn't. As the frontpanel contains no electronic devices, chances are zero this panel is at fault. But what can it be? Do you have any suggestions? Thanks in advance, Fokke Nauta Right-click the speaker icon in the lower right corner, select "Sounds", click on the "Playback" tab and see if there is a down arrow on the Headphones icon. If so, right-click it and select "Enable". Ben Thanks But there is no headphone icon. Next to the motherboards sound chip, I have two soundcards, under which one with multichannel facilities. Concerning outputs, there are three speaker icons. The Realtek High Definition Audio is the default playback one. In addition there are digital outputs and multichannel outputs, but no headphone icon. Fokke Check to make sure you have the most recent driver. Version 6.0.1.8158 https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards...Desk_Download/ Ben Thanks. I have that driver installed. Fokke Any progress on configuration, or viewing the configuration ? Yesterday no progress. I will soon start again. ******* If the CODEC is RealTek brand, RealTek offers download pages for their products. One of the few hardware makers that does a decent job of it. Analog Devices, another maker of sound chips, doesn't even come close to being as customer friendly as RealTek. http://www.realtek.com/downloads/dow...Audio%20Codecs Good link for information! You might want to stick with the Asus download, if the CODEC is "special featured" and has any Dolby capabilities bundled with it. It's unclear how the licensed status of Dolby on these chips, is managed. It's not necessarily managed by PNP info. And I don't know how Realtek authorizes a mobo to have Dolby support. If you're only using the CODEC for headphones or stereo, and don't care about any of the fancy Dolby features, then you can use any installer that works in your OS. Paul I'll stick to the current driver. It's the most recent Realtek driver. And I use it for stereo and head phones only. Fokke |
#43
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No audio output on the front panel
On 30/07/2018 12:19, Fokke Nauta wrote:
Hi all, This has got nothing to do with Windows 10, but perhaps you may make me think into the right direction. This is the case: Recently purchased a front panel audio connection bay 3,5". The make is Delock. There are two USB 3.0 connectors and a HD Audio in- and headphone output. There are no electronic devices in this thing, it has connectors and cables only. USB cables are connected to USB 3.0 connectors (20-1 pin) on the motherboard, works fine. The audio cable ia connected to the front panel audio connector (AAFP, 10-1 pins) on the motherboard. Motherboard is Asus Prime H270 Pro. System is W10 Pro 64b. Audio chip is RealTEK ALC 887, default audio output is Realtek High Definition Audio (on the motherboard). In the BIOS the audio chip is enabled. Driver is correctly installed, when playing a music file there is an audio signal at the rear audio output on the motherboard. But there is no signal at the audio output of the front panel. In the Realtek Audio Manager these are ticked: Make front and rear output devices playback different audio streams simultaneously. And: HD Audio front panel. This is what the front panel is, no AC97. So I think there should be a signal on the front panel output, but there isn't. As the frontpanel contains no electronic devices, chances are zero this panel is at fault. But what can it be? Do you have any suggestions? Thanks in advance, Fokke Nauta Good news! First of all, thank you all very much for your help, hints and suggestions. And thanks, Paul, for the schematic overview. I checked the cable connections of the front panel and it seemed all correct, and according to the HD standard. Switches when jacks are inserted do work, Port1 are connected to the mic input, and port2 are connected to the head phone output. Re-installed the driver and re-installed the HD front panel connector on the motherboard and all of a sudden it works. Very surprised. Will propabely never know as to why it didn't work earlier. All the best regards, Fokke |
#44
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No audio output on the front panel
Fokke Nauta wrote:
Will propabely never know as to why it didn't work earlier. Sure we will, look here as Chief Dan George explains most computer weirdness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLso0ZBqOi4 "Sometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn't." -- XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups The Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/ |
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