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"Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."



 
 
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  #76  
Old Yesterday, 07:25 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Frank Slootweg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 486
Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."

Mayayana wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

[...]

[About Thunderbird's mail storage format.]

All of that's to say that you should be able to
get your email out without much trouble, but I'm
not aware of any program that will just export single
messages. I can drag them out onto the desktop
one at a time, as can also be done with TBird. But
I can't save all of them.


Elsewhere in this thread, I mentioned Thunderbird's 'ImportExport
Tools' Extension, which *can* export single messages (in .eml format,
which is basically one-message mbox format).

If you export a folder - for example Inbox' - you get a timestamped
(Windows) folder (Inbox_20180917-1808) with a subfolder 'messages' and a
'index.html' file.

The 'messages' folder contains the messages in .eml format, for
example '20180906-Your new F1 hub-2324.eml', where 2324 is probably some
index. You can open these files with Thunderbird and they of course will
have the real Subject: sans fluff, i.e. 'Your new F1 hub'.

You can open the index.html file in your browser, which will show a
list of 'Subject', 'From', 'To', 'Date' and 'Attachment'.

The messages in the 'Subject' column are highlighted/clickable, but
they open the raw/source message. I don't know if that can be changed.

Out of curiosity I tried the
Export function in OE and it told me that it would only
export to Outlook or MS Exchange. Parochial monopoly
strikes again.


Thunderbird (basic, i.e. without Extension) can Import from Outlook
Express and - see above - Thunderbird's 'ImportExport Tools' Extension
can export to .eml or mbox (or HTML or Plain text or PDF or ...) format,
so Bob's your uncle!

FYI, I come from a UNIX and standards background, so I've always
checked if I could export my current mail folders from their proprietary
format to the only real de jure standard, mbox format. That was possible
with Outlook (non-Express) and Outlook Express with third-party software
and with Windows Mail, Windows Live Mail (barf!) and now Thunderbird.
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  #77  
Old Yesterday, 07:50 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Frank Slootweg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 486
Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:
In message , Frank Slootweg
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:
In message , Mayayana
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

| I really don't like the fact that all my emails are held in a single
| monolithic file of a bespoke proprietary format and encryption. For
| one thing, if it gets corrupted, it could prove very challenging to
| retrieve anything useful from it. For another, if you want to clean
|
| AFAIK, all - Windows, anyway - do that. (The degree of proprietariness -
| and encryption - varying.)

I have TBird and OE. Both store in a "flat file" with
minimal structure and no encryption.

It's still a single file though. Which makes me uneasy (though I'm
obviously accepting it since I have no choice).


With the 'ImportExport Tools' Extension I mentioned before, TB can
Export to individual .eml files with a - machine and human-readable -
index.html and it can Export to MBOX format, so you could - periodically
- make a safe and non-proprietary - backup.


That's post-processing, though. I don't know of any Windows email client
that _uses_ individual files for emails _instead of_ its own internal
scheme (as opposed to being able to _generate_ such files afterwards, e.
g. with an extension).


I was addressing your "Which makes me uneasy ... since I have no
choice)." comment. Being able to make backup in a reliable format can
take some of the "uneasy" bit away. It also does give you a choice.

As to a "Windows email client that _uses_ individual files for emails
_instead of_ its own internal scheme", Windows Mail and Windows Live
Mail do use individual .eml files, but dependent on your Windows
version, WM might not be available and WLM, well let's not talk about
WLM.

I don't know if there are any other Windows email clients which use
individual .eml (or mbox-per-message) files. (As I've described in
another response in this thread, I have no such need, because I can
always get .eml/mox format if the need arises.)

(Though some
emails these days are actually sent with Base-64
encoding of the text. Email clients decode that so
it's not visible in general usage. It doesn't constitute
encryption. I don't know why they do it.

Because their coders are too thick to realise they don't need to. I
genuinely can't think of any other reason.


They only should use Base-64 encoding if the text contains any 8-bit
characters. And it's indeed *encoding* (of what can not be sent
otherwise), not encryption.

Agreed. Where encoding is required, fine. But only then. (And as you say
- though Mayayana did say encoding anyway - it's encoding, not
encryption.)


But Mayayana also said "It doesn't constitute encryption.", because
earlier, you were talking about encryption.
  #78  
Old Yesterday, 08:12 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,961
Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."

In message , Frank Slootweg
writes:
Mayayana wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

[...]

[About Thunderbird's mail storage format.]

All of that's to say that you should be able to
get your email out without much trouble, but I'm
not aware of any program that will just export single
messages. I can drag them out onto the desktop
one at a time, as can also be done with TBird. But
I can't save all of them.


(I - JPG - _didn't_ write that paragraph, though no matter.) [More at
end.]

Elsewhere in this thread, I mentioned Thunderbird's 'ImportExport
Tools' Extension, which *can* export single messages (in .eml format,
which is basically one-message mbox format).

If you export a folder - for example Inbox' - you get a timestamped
(Windows) folder (Inbox_20180917-1808) with a subfolder 'messages' and a
'index.html' file.

The 'messages' folder contains the messages in .eml format, for
example '20180906-Your new F1 hub-2324.eml', where 2324 is probably some
index. You can open these files with Thunderbird and they of course will
have the real Subject: sans fluff, i.e. 'Your new F1 hub'.

You can open the index.html file in your browser, which will show a
list of 'Subject', 'From', 'To', 'Date' and 'Attachment'.

The messages in the 'Subject' column are highlighted/clickable, but
they open the raw/source message. I don't know if that can be changed.

Out of curiosity I tried the
Export function in OE and it told me that it would only
export to Outlook or MS Exchange. Parochial monopoly
strikes again.


Thunderbird (basic, i.e. without Extension) can Import from Outlook
Express and - see above - Thunderbird's 'ImportExport Tools' Extension
can export to .eml or mbox (or HTML or Plain text or PDF or ...) format,
so Bob's your uncle!

FYI, I come from a UNIX and standards background, so I've always
checked if I could export my current mail folders from their proprietary
format to the only real de jure standard, mbox format. That was possible
with Outlook (non-Express) and Outlook Express with third-party software
and with Windows Mail, Windows Live Mail (barf!) and now Thunderbird.


I've not snipped, because all of the above is talking about "getting
your mail out", "import"ing, and "export"ing. I am unaware of any
Windows mail client that _uses_ individual files for emails, rather than
being able to create such files (with or without using extensions). What
I mean is this - if there was such a client: If you examined where the
emails are stored, in Windows Explorer, you'd see folders - named as
they appear inside the client (or at least with a one-to-one
correspondence). If, inside the client, you moved an email from one
folder to another, then looked again with Windows Explorer, there'd be
one more file in one folder and one less in another.

I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why such a client would be
unwieldy, or have similar disadvantages. I do think, though, that if
such an approach had been used from the start (or at least for many
years), such problems would have been overcome as clients developed.
Wishful thinking now, though, as email client development has almost
stopped - certainly nothing as major as that sort of change; the only
changes left happening are minor tweaks, and perhaps protocol changes
(such as encryption implementations, e. g. for passwords).

P. S. - I've just read your post that says WM (and the terrible WLM)
_does_ use single files per email (though you call them mbox rather than
file).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Today, I dare say more people know who starred as /The Vicar of Dibley/ than
know the name of the vicar of their local parish. - Clive Anderson, Radio
Times 15-21 January 2011.
  #79  
Old Yesterday, 08:49 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Frank Slootweg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 486
Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:
In message , Frank Slootweg

[...]
P. S. - I've just read your post that says WM (and the terrible WLM)
_does_ use single files per email (though you call them mbox rather than
file).


Sorry for the confusion. 'mbox' is a *format*, i.e. like PDF is a
format. WM/WLM stores individual messages in .eml files. mbox-format
files can store one or multiple messages. Instead of 'mbox [format]
files', I might say '.mbox files', but there really is no such thing,
because mbox format stems from UNIX, which mainly uses extension-less
filenames.

.eml format is very similar to one-message-per-file mbox format. The
main difference is that the mbox format file should have a "From ..."
line as the first line. For example my response you're referring to has

From franks Mon Sep 17 20:49:58 2018

as it's first line.

N.B. This line should not be quoted by my or your newsreader, i.e. it
should NOT say "From franks Mon Sep 17 20:49:58 2018"

N.B.2. This is NOT the normal 'From:' (i.e. with colon') header, but an
extra *line* (not *header*), which is part of the mbox format, not part
of the posted article.
 




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