Dell Display Manager

On 9/13/2018 5:59 PM, Terry Pinnell wrote:

Did you touch anything in the Easy Arrange page?

Eh? Of course I 'touched things'. I've been playing with it for several
days.

If you don't want Easy Array to arrange your windows auto-magically, you
should choose the first option (the one with a big red "X") which means
no auto-arrange.

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
ä¸�借貸! ä¸�è©�騙! ä¸�è³*錢! ä¸�æ�´äº¤! ä¸�打交! ä¸�打劫! ä¸�自殺! ä¸�求神! 請考慮綜æ�´
(CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa

"Mr. Man-wai Chang" wrote:

On 9/13/2018 5:59 PM, Terry Pinnell wrote:

Did you touch anything in the Easy Arrange page?

Eh? Of course I 'touched things'. I've been playing with it for several
days.

If you don't want Easy Array to arrange your windows auto-magically, you
should choose the first option (the one with a big red "X") which means
no auto-arrange.

Did you read even my opening post? That was obviously one of the first
things I tried. As in "I couldn't find any way to stop DDM rearranging
my windows every time I enabled the monitor, even by closing it from its
tray icon."

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

On 2018-09-13 05:29, Terry Pinnell wrote:

Later this morning (it's Thursday 13 September 2018, 10:30 here in UK)
I'll uninstall DDM yet again and repeat the registry check. Those
*should* all be gone, yes?

No need, they'll stay there in case you re-install, that's usually what
happens. But since these are DDM's keys and no one else knows how to
read them or use them, no harm done leaving them there...

Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Memberavid-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo Borgasm, n. The ecstacy of being assimilated.

On 2018-09-13 05:57, Terry Pinnell wrote:

B00ze wrote:

On 2018-09-12 04:12, Terry Pinnell wrote:

I uninstalled again and on closing down and re-powering the display
this was my screen:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mjrogtfumr...rProblem-1.jpg
It looks like a resized version of the 'acceptable' layout I'd set as my
fallback. Instead of the originals.

While it's possible it exists, I do not myself know of any way to ask
Windows itself to remember a program's position on the screen, unless
that changed with Win10. Programs have to do that themselves. What all
these Window Managers do, is move/resize windows as they are opened,
usually using the window-title to identify them. So if DDM is gone,
there should be no one messing around with the windows; they should
appear wherever the program themselves ask that they appear.

Agreed. (Of course, window size and position are easily manipulated. One
of the main reasons I want to be rid of DDM is that I use several macros
to do so with keystroke hotkeys. And no, that's not a candidate culprit;
no change with Macro Express Pro closed.)

Yup, easily manipulated, but not by Windows itself; Microsoft have even
"downgraded" from XP behaviour and no longer open Explorer windows at
their last position on the screen (they do retain their last-known
size.) They've just given-up on that; they're in Cellphone Mode: You run
it either full screen or in 1/2 screen mode when docked to the side;
anything else they don't wanna know about...

do know of my own Intel Display Driver messing around a little when I
power-off a monitor with the computer turned on - The driver changes
the screen resolution back to whatever it is that the default Windows
Basic Display Driver supports, so all my windows move around the screen
(they all end-up squished top left.) Maybe your display driver is
messing around? Who knows, maybe it supports moving windows around the
screen as they open - are you using a special Dell Display Adapter Driver?

That sounds a promising line of enquiry, as you see that my 'DDM
windows' were affected the same way, shifted towards the top left
corner. But the check below shows no *obvious* issues with my Intel HD
Graphics 530, which I recently updated:

I see you have an Asus board, so there is no "Special Dell Display
Driver" - you use Intel's. Well, your problem could very well be the
same thing I said it does to me, which is to resize the display whenever
I power-down the monitor while Windows is running. What happens if you
re-position your windows where you now want them, close the programs,
reboot and re-open the programs? Do they re-open where they should?
Because if they move only when you power off the monitor, then Intel's
display driver is probably the cause...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1poezrkcfh...ults.jpg?raw=1

One other place I looked was the Intel HD Graphics Control Panel, but
see nothing relevant there either, even though I have not experimented
beyond those default settings:

Yeah, there's plenty there but nothing about positioning windows...

Maybe I'll now try uninstalling the monitor driver.
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Try the Display Adapter Driver; get the one from the manufacturer, not
the Dell-Supplied one...

That was what updated only a few days ago, and the subject of that check
above. In fact that's what prompts me to suspect it, together with your
similar experience. Are you saying that was resolve by updating your
Display Adapter Driver?

Nope, it started happening AFTER I updated the driver; earlier Intel
versions did not do what it now does.

As for the *monitor* driver, as mentioned up-thread I reverted to the
generic MS version (straw clutching) and that remains the status today:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bpia198qv5...blem.jpg?raw=1

Monitor drivers are only for listing supported frequencies and color
correction (the ICM profiles).

My thanks to you and Paul for patiently staying on the case.

Np.

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Memberavid-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo An elephant is a mouse built to government specs.

On 9/13/2018 9:31 PM, Terry Pinnell wrote:

Did you read even my opening post? That was obviously one of the first
things I tried. As in "I couldn't find any way to stop DDM rearranging
my windows every time I enabled the monitor, even by closing it from its
tray icon."

You didn't mention Easy Arrange in your first, opening post. And other
people could not read your brain. Read your first post again.

Go through all settings in DDM, make sure Easy Arrange and other
automatic things are disabled, then resize and move the windows and see
whether automatic arrange happens again.

Beyond that, maybe you have other programs arranging your windows
auto-magically.

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
ä¸�借貸! ä¸�è©�騙! ä¸�è³*錢! ä¸�æ�´äº¤! ä¸�打交! ä¸�打劫! ä¸�自殺! ä¸�求神! 請考慮綜æ�´
(CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa

B00ze wrote:
On 2018-09-13 05:57, Terry Pinnell wrote:

Agreed. (Of course, window size and position are easily manipulated. One
of the main reasons I want to be rid of DDM is that I use several macros
to do so with keystroke hotkeys. And no, that's not a candidate culprit;
no change with Macro Express Pro closed.)

Yup, easily manipulated, but not by Windows itself; Microsoft have even
"downgraded" from XP behaviour and no longer open Explorer windows at
their last position on the screen (they do retain their last-known
size.) They've just given-up on that; they're in Cellphone Mode: You run
it either full screen or in 1/2 screen mode when docked to the side;
anything else they don't wanna know about...

It's possible disabling "snap", disabling the more modern
features, might bring back the old behavior.

I tried looking for screen arrangements in the Dell user manual
for DDM, and a match in Windows. On the off chance that the
registry settings left behind, are "bound" to a Windows feature
and not to a DDM piece of code. But I can't find any evidence
that Windows knows anything about the arrangements on page 7
here.

https://www.quietpc.com/instructions...ide2_en-us.pdf

I just don't know any good techie keywords, for a Windows
subsystem that allows third parties to re-arrange windows.
Certainly more than one developer has figured out how
to do this, but I'm not finding any admissions of what
subsystem might be used to make it easy.

As a developer, if you don't work within an existing framework,
you'll be buried in a sea of support emails for your efforts.
As you'll be working against Windows, and bumping heads
with Windows all the time when you do stuff. If there is a
framework for third parties to do this, then it might explain
how some "left-over" registry settings could continue
to re-arrange Terrys windows.

This would be an example of some old behaviors. XYWH.
But the thing is, they might not store these using the
same logic as the old features. They could quite easily
store some CLSID based table somewhere.

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Notepad

iWindowPosX
iWindowPosY
iWindowPosDX
iWindowPosDY

And the registry is a pretty big place to be stumbling
around inside, without some fortified breadcrumbs to
work with.

Paul

Paul wrote:

B00ze wrote:
On 2018-09-13 05:57, Terry Pinnell wrote:

Agreed. (Of course, window size and position are easily manipulated. One
of the main reasons I want to be rid of DDM is that I use several macros
to do so with keystroke hotkeys. And no, that's not a candidate culprit;
no change with Macro Express Pro closed.)

Yup, easily manipulated, but not by Windows itself; Microsoft have even
"downgraded" from XP behaviour and no longer open Explorer windows at
their last position on the screen (they do retain their last-known
size.) They've just given-up on that; they're in Cellphone Mode: You run
it either full screen or in 1/2 screen mode when docked to the side;
anything else they don't wanna know about...

It's possible disabling "snap", disabling the more modern
features, might bring back the old behavior.

I tried looking for screen arrangements in the Dell user manual
for DDM, and a match in Windows. On the off chance that the
registry settings left behind, are "bound" to a Windows feature
and not to a DDM piece of code. But I can't find any evidence
that Windows knows anything about the arrangements on page 7
here.

https://www.quietpc.com/instructions...ide2_en-us.pdf

I just don't know any good techie keywords, for a Windows
subsystem that allows third parties to re-arrange windows.
Certainly more than one developer has figured out how
to do this, but I'm not finding any admissions of what
subsystem might be used to make it easy.

As a developer, if you don't work within an existing framework,
you'll be buried in a sea of support emails for your efforts.
As you'll be working against Windows, and bumping heads
with Windows all the time when you do stuff. If there is a
framework for third parties to do this, then it might explain
how some "left-over" registry settings could continue
to re-arrange Terrys windows.

This would be an example of some old behaviors. XYWH.
But the thing is, they might not store these using the
same logic as the old features. They could quite easily
store some CLSID based table somewhere.

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Notepad

iWindowPosX
iWindowPosY
iWindowPosDX
iWindowPosDY

And the registry is a pretty big place to be stumbling
around inside, without some fortified breadcrumbs to
work with.

Paul

I'd been testing this using the U2415 on/off touch button. So typically
I'd set up the window layout as I wanted it, switch off, wait a few
seconds and switch on again ... to see my layout was lost.

Expert user @swamped207 in the Dell Monitor forum last night said "I
suspect that with no monitor (off, effectively disconnected), Windows
and/or your display driver are resizing your open windows to fit a
1024x768 default display..."

I reckon he's right. The day before, I'd carefully measured the size of
the 'top left result' as 1022x736 at -2,-2 and not seen any clues. But
given @swamped207's hypothesis I now note that 1022+2=24 and 736+2+30
for taskbar=768.

But I've no idea why Windows would do that. And to an AR of 4:3? Like
you, I'm also still trying to understand where it gets its info. Note
that, as I expected, the DDM registry entries *are* deleted when DDM is
uninstalled?)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9rmd9yrtqa...tall.jpg?raw=1
But maybe the OS is simply 'hard coded' to react in that way during the
2-3 secs when the monitor is displaying a small window with its input
source ("Input = mDP" in my case). I uninstalled the Dell driver a while
ago in my search for a fix. As it made no difference, I've left it.

Another suggestion from @swamped207 was this: "...to fix this issue - or
at least test a possible fix - do NOT turn your U2415 off and on again;
instead use the built-in power management tools in Windows itself to put
the system into standby and/or to put the monitor to sleep after so many
minutes of no user activity."

I'm trying this now. Even at its minimum setting of 1 minute, that tests
my patience. I'll report back.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

B00ze wrote:

On 2018-09-13 05:57, Terry Pinnell wrote:

B00ze wrote:

On 2018-09-12 04:12, Terry Pinnell wrote:

I uninstalled again and on closing down and re-powering the display
this was my screen:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mjrogtfumr...rProblem-1.jpg
It looks like a resized version of the 'acceptable' layout I'd set as my
fallback. Instead of the originals.

While it's possible it exists, I do not myself know of any way to ask
Windows itself to remember a program's position on the screen, unless
that changed with Win10. Programs have to do that themselves. What all
these Window Managers do, is move/resize windows as they are opened,
usually using the window-title to identify them. So if DDM is gone,
there should be no one messing around with the windows; they should
appear wherever the program themselves ask that they appear.

Agreed. (Of course, window size and position are easily manipulated. One
of the main reasons I want to be rid of DDM is that I use several macros
to do so with keystroke hotkeys. And no, that's not a candidate culprit;
no change with Macro Express Pro closed.)

Yup, easily manipulated, but not by Windows itself; Microsoft have even
"downgraded" from XP behaviour and no longer open Explorer windows at
their last position on the screen (they do retain their last-known
size.) They've just given-up on that; they're in Cellphone Mode: You run
it either full screen or in 1/2 screen mode when docked to the side;
anything else they don't wanna know about...

do know of my own Intel Display Driver messing around a little when I
power-off a monitor with the computer turned on - The driver changes
the screen resolution back to whatever it is that the default Windows
Basic Display Driver supports, so all my windows move around the screen
(they all end-up squished top left.) Maybe your display driver is
messing around? Who knows, maybe it supports moving windows around the
screen as they open - are you using a special Dell Display Adapter Driver?

That sounds a promising line of enquiry, as you see that my 'DDM
windows' were affected the same way, shifted towards the top left
corner. But the check below shows no *obvious* issues with my Intel HD
Graphics 530, which I recently updated:

I see you have an Asus board, so there is no "Special Dell Display
Driver" - you use Intel's. Well, your problem could very well be the
same thing I said it does to me, which is to resize the display whenever
I power-down the monitor while Windows is running.

Indeed! See my reply to Paul a minute ago.

What happens if you
re-position your windows where you now want them, close the programs,
reboot and re-open the programs? Do they re-open where they should?
Because if they move only when you power off the monitor, then Intel's
display driver is probably the cause...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1poezrkcfh...ults.jpg?raw=1

One other place I looked was the Intel HD Graphics Control Panel, but
see nothing relevant there either, even though I have not experimented
beyond those default settings:

Yeah, there's plenty there but nothing about positioning windows...

Maybe I'll now try uninstalling the monitor driver.
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Try the Display Adapter Driver; get the one from the manufacturer, not
the Dell-Supplied one...

That was what updated only a few days ago, and the subject of that check
above. In fact that's what prompts me to suspect it, together with your
similar experience. Are you saying that was resolve by updating your
Display Adapter Driver?

Nope, it started happening AFTER I updated the driver; earlier Intel
versions did not do what it now does.

As for the *monitor* driver, as mentioned up-thread I reverted to the
generic MS version (straw clutching) and that remains the status today:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bpia198qv5...blem.jpg?raw=1

Monitor drivers are only for listing supported frequencies and color
correction (the ICM profiles).

My thanks to you and Paul for patiently staying on the case.

Np.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Terry Pinnell wrote:
Paul wrote:

B00ze wrote:
On 2018-09-13 05:57, Terry Pinnell wrote:

Agreed. (Of course, window size and position are easily manipulated. One
of the main reasons I want to be rid of DDM is that I use several macros
to do so with keystroke hotkeys. And no, that's not a candidate culprit;
no change with Macro Express Pro closed.)
Yup, easily manipulated, but not by Windows itself; Microsoft have even
"downgraded" from XP behaviour and no longer open Explorer windows at
their last position on the screen (they do retain their last-known
size.) They've just given-up on that; they're in Cellphone Mode: You run
it either full screen or in 1/2 screen mode when docked to the side;
anything else they don't wanna know about...
It's possible disabling "snap", disabling the more modern
features, might bring back the old behavior.

I tried looking for screen arrangements in the Dell user manual
for DDM, and a match in Windows. On the off chance that the
registry settings left behind, are "bound" to a Windows feature
and not to a DDM piece of code. But I can't find any evidence
that Windows knows anything about the arrangements on page 7
here.

https://www.quietpc.com/instructions...ide2_en-us.pdf

I just don't know any good techie keywords, for a Windows
subsystem that allows third parties to re-arrange windows.
Certainly more than one developer has figured out how
to do this, but I'm not finding any admissions of what
subsystem might be used to make it easy.

As a developer, if you don't work within an existing framework,
you'll be buried in a sea of support emails for your efforts.
As you'll be working against Windows, and bumping heads
with Windows all the time when you do stuff. If there is a
framework for third parties to do this, then it might explain
how some "left-over" registry settings could continue
to re-arrange Terrys windows.

This would be an example of some old behaviors. XYWH.
But the thing is, they might not store these using the
same logic as the old features. They could quite easily
store some CLSID based table somewhere.

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Notepad

iWindowPosX
iWindowPosY
iWindowPosDX
iWindowPosDY

And the registry is a pretty big place to be stumbling
around inside, without some fortified breadcrumbs to
work with.

Paul

I'd been testing this using the U2415 on/off touch button. So typically
I'd set up the window layout as I wanted it, switch off, wait a few
seconds and switch on again ... to see my layout was lost.

Expert user @swamped207 in the Dell Monitor forum last night said "I
suspect that with no monitor (off, effectively disconnected), Windows
and/or your display driver are resizing your open windows to fit a
1024x768 default display..."

I reckon he's right. The day before, I'd carefully measured the size of
the 'top left result' as 1022x736 at -2,-2 and not seen any clues. But
given @swamped207's hypothesis I now note that 1022+2=24 and 736+2+30
for taskbar=768.

But I've no idea why Windows would do that. And to an AR of 4:3? Like
you, I'm also still trying to understand where it gets its info. Note
that, as I expected, the DDM registry entries *are* deleted when DDM is
uninstalled?)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9rmd9yrtqa...tall.jpg?raw=1
But maybe the OS is simply 'hard coded' to react in that way during the
2-3 secs when the monitor is displaying a small window with its input
source ("Input = mDP" in my case). I uninstalled the Dell driver a while
ago in my search for a fix. As it made no difference, I've left it.

Another suggestion from @swamped207 was this: "...to fix this issue - or
at least test a possible fix - do NOT turn your U2415 off and on again;
instead use the built-in power management tools in Windows itself to put
the system into standby and/or to put the monitor to sleep after so many
minutes of no user activity."

I'm trying this now. Even at its minimum setting of 1 minute, that tests
my patience. I'll report back.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

With the monitor switched off, there may or may not be
EDID available.

The way this used to work, is the computer could send +5V
over a single pin on the display connector. And that power
source was enough to power the EEPROM with the EDID info.
The computer and video card could then query the available
resolution settings (with the monitor powered off).

1024x768 is a VESA resolution, and is also getting close
to the "safe to use with unknown monitors" resolution value.
There are some devices, such as projectors, where the
video cable doesn't have the EDID interface. (Then you
need a $50 EDID faker, which continues to provide
EDID no matter what the device on the end of the cable
is doing.)

Computer ------ EDID_faker ----------- Monitor

And 1024x768 is also used when the video card doesn't
have a driver, and Windows 10 uses the fallback
"Microsoft Basic Display Adapter". But the video
card itself doesn't power off when you power
off the monitor. And it's not likely that
the driver would be unloading or changing.

When I used an FX5200 with Windows 10 (a video
card without a Win10 driver), the monitor
ran at 1024x768 because of the Microsoft Basic
Display Adapter driver.

Paul

On 2018-09-14 04:34, Paul wrote:

I'm gonna snip some...
Including the he said she said at the top...

I tried looking for screen arrangements in the Dell user manual
for DDM, and a match in Windows. On the off chance that the
registry settings left behind, are "bound" to a Windows feature
and not to a DDM piece of code. But I can't find any evidence
that Windows knows anything about the arrangements on page 7
here.

Yeah, I don't know either of a Windows facility for positioning windows
permanently. As far as I know, everyone has to code their own...

I'd been testing this using the U2415 on/off touch button. So typically
I'd set up the window layout as I wanted it, switch off, wait a few
seconds and switch on again ... to see my layout was lost.

Expert user @swamped207 in the Dell Monitor forum last night said "I
suspect that with no monitor (off, effectively disconnected), Windows
and/or your display driver are resizing your open windows to fit a
1024x768 default display..."

That's exactly what Expert User -Me- said lol ;-)

I reckon he's right. The day before, I'd carefully measured the size of
the 'top left result' as 1022x736 at -2,-2 and not seen any clues. But
given @swamped207's hypothesis I now note that 1022+2=24 and 736+2+30
for taskbar=768.

Yeah, I couldn't tell what was happening to you until you mentioned
turning the monitor off. I did not need to measure window positions when
I discovered this for myself; if I recall, the PC makes a helpful
"device detected" noise when this happens...

But I've no idea why Windows would do that. And to an AR of 4:3? Like
you, I'm also still trying to understand where it gets its info. Note
that, as I expected, the DDM registry entries *are* deleted when DDM is
uninstalled?)

It does that, as Paul explains below, so that if you plug a really cheap
monitor, you don't end-up with it saying "Unsupported Video" and can't
go back to something that IS supported because you cannot see. I
understand why they do it, but it is freaking annoying because the
windows are resized, so that my Firefox TabGroups layout gets all messed
up. My PC didn't do that about 1.5 years go, so it's a somewhat new thing.

If the DDM keys are deleted when you unInstall, then if you reInstall,
don't you have to set-it all up again? It must keep some copy of the
settings on disk somewhere in AppData...

Another suggestion from @swamped207 was this: "...to fix this issue - or
at least test a possible fix - do NOT turn your U2415 off and on again;
instead use the built-in power management tools in Windows itself to put
the system into standby and/or to put the monitor to sleep after so many
minutes of no user activity."

Did you try what I suggested - ie, position program windows where you
want them, close programs and reboot? There's no real need to hibernate
or sleep or try to make the monitor go dark some other way; a simple
reboot is all you need to test this...

With the monitor switched off, there may or may not be
EDID available.

1024x768 is a VESA resolution, and is also getting close
to the "safe to use with unknown monitors" resolution value.
There are some devices, such as projectors, where the
video cable doesn't have the EDID interface. (Then you
need a $50 EDID faker, which continues to provide
EDID no matter what the device on the end of the cable
is doing.)

Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Memberavid-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

B00ze wrote:

On 2018-09-14 04:34, Paul wrote:

I'm gonna snip some...
Including the he said she said at the top...

I tried looking for screen arrangements in the Dell user manual
for DDM, and a match in Windows. On the off chance that the
registry settings left behind, are "bound" to a Windows feature
and not to a DDM piece of code. But I can't find any evidence
that Windows knows anything about the arrangements on page 7
here.

Yeah, I don't know either of a Windows facility for positioning windows
permanently. As far as I know, everyone has to code their own...

I'd been testing this using the U2415 on/off touch button. So typically
I'd set up the window layout as I wanted it, switch off, wait a few
seconds and switch on again ... to see my layout was lost.

Expert user @swamped207 in the Dell Monitor forum last night said "I
suspect that with no monitor (off, effectively disconnected), Windows
and/or your display driver are resizing your open windows to fit a
1024x768 default display..."

That's exactly what Expert User -Me- said lol ;-)

Yep, great minds.... And hence my exclamation "Indeed!". But the penny
didn't drop (that I should stop inducing that aggravation by using the
On/Off button) until @swamped207's suggestion.

I reckon he's right. The day before, I'd carefully measured the size of
the 'top left result' as 1022x736 at -2,-2 and not seen any clues. But
given @swamped207's hypothesis I now note that 1022+2=24 and 736+2+30
for taskbar=768.

Yeah, I couldn't tell what was happening to you until you mentioned
turning the monitor off. I did not need to measure window positions when
I discovered this for myself; if I recall, the PC makes a helpful
"device detected" noise when this happens...

Yes, another irritation now avoided.

But I've no idea why Windows would do that. And to an AR of 4:3? Like
you, I'm also still trying to understand where it gets its info. Note
that, as I expected, the DDM registry entries *are* deleted when DDM is
uninstalled?)

It does that, as Paul explains below, so that if you plug a really cheap
monitor, you don't end-up with it saying "Unsupported Video" and can't
go back to something that IS supported because you cannot see. I
understand why they do it, but it is freaking annoying because the
windows are resized, so that my Firefox TabGroups layout gets all messed
up. My PC didn't do that about 1.5 years go, so it's a somewhat new thing.

Understood.

If the DDM keys are deleted when you unInstall, then if you reInstall,
don't you have to set-it all up again? It must keep some copy of the
settings on disk somewhere in AppData...

For now at last I'll leave it installed. I'll avoid all use of its Easy
Arrange section but maybe sometime I'll try the various 'templates' to
customise other settings like brightness, contrast, etc.

Another suggestion from @swamped207 was this: "...to fix this issue - or
at least test a possible fix - do NOT turn your U2415 off and on again;
instead use the built-in power management tools in Windows itself to put
the system into standby and/or to put the monitor to sleep after so many
minutes of no user activity."

Did you try what I suggested - ie, position program windows where you
want them, close programs and reboot? There's no real need to hibernate
or sleep or try to make the monitor go dark some other way; a simple
reboot is all you need to test this...

I had rebooted several times, including after DDM was uninstalled, but
I'd continued to test by using the On/Off button, which still scrambled
the layout. I now have Settings|Power & Sleep|Screen|When plugged in
turn off after|5 minutes.

In the past I've occasionally found my screen still powered up after
hours of inactivity. Typically that followed work editing videos and/or
burning DVDs. Whatever, that's why I got into the habit of switching off
manually, as I run this i7 PC 24/7. With my previous iiYama monitors,
switching back on did what I'd expect: returned my screen to exactly the
previous state.

Although I'm always uncomfortable with unsolved puzzles and loose ends,
I reckon this can now be chalked up as a happy ending ;-)

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

On 2018-09-15 03:12, Terry Pinnell wrote:

B00ze wrote:

Yeah, I couldn't tell what was happening to you until you mentioned
turning the monitor off. I did not need to measure window positions when
I discovered this for myself; if I recall, the PC makes a helpful
"device detected" noise when this happens...

Yes, another irritation now avoided.

Yeah, but I kinda appreciated the Ding when this happened the first
time; I went "Ding?" and turned the monitor back on and discovered the
problem...

If the DDM keys are deleted when you unInstall, then if you reInstall,
don't you have to set-it all up again? It must keep some copy of the
settings on disk somewhere in AppData...

For now at last I'll leave it installed. I'll avoid all use of its Easy
Arrange section but maybe sometime I'll try the various 'templates' to
customise other settings like brightness, contrast, etc.

You can control all that with the Intel drivers. I admit I haven't seen
DDM, but the Fujitsu one is just a different UI to what already exists
in Windows, plus is messes-up things...

Another suggestion from @swamped207 was this: "...to fix this issue - or
at least test a possible fix - do NOT turn your U2415 off and on again;
instead use the built-in power management tools in Windows itself to put
the system into standby and/or to put the monitor to sleep after so many
minutes of no user activity."

Did you try what I suggested - ie, position program windows where you
want them, close programs and reboot? There's no real need to hibernate
or sleep or try to make the monitor go dark some other way; a simple
reboot is all you need to test this...

I had rebooted several times, including after DDM was uninstalled, but
I'd continued to test by using the On/Off button, which still scrambled
the layout. I now have Settings|Power & Sleep|Screen|When plugged in
turn off after|5 minutes.

Yes, that's different than turning it off - it will go black but not
scramble the layout.

In the past I've occasionally found my screen still powered up after
hours of inactivity. Typically that followed work editing videos and/or
burning DVDs. Whatever, that's why I got into the habit of switching off
manually, as I run this i7 PC 24/7. With my previous iiYama monitors,
switching back on did what I'd expect: returned my screen to exactly the
previous state.

Ah, I see. Yes, I've had the "PC wont sleep" problem as well, but I just
leave it on nowadays...

Although I'm always uncomfortable with unsolved puzzles and loose ends,
I reckon this can now be chalked up as a happy ending ;-)

Yup, it was fun puzzling this out :-)

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Memberavid-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo COM program murdered. "Bits everywhere" says witness.

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 08:12:24 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote:

I had rebooted several times, including after DDM was uninstalled, but
I'd continued to test by using the On/Off button, which still scrambled
the layout. I now have Settings|Power & Sleep|Screen|When plugged in
turn off after|5 minutes.

In the past I've occasionally found my screen still powered up after
hours of inactivity. Typically that followed work editing videos and/or
burning DVDs. Whatever, that's why I got into the habit of switching off
manually, as I run this i7 PC 24/7. With my previous iiYama monitors,
switching back on did what I'd expect: returned my screen to exactly the
previous state.

Maybe you can get some benefit from Steve Gibson's Wizmo or the similar
utility from Nirsoft, rather than reaching for the monitor's power
button. Both have controls to turn monitors on/off or to run the default
screensaver, which could be a blank/black screen to hold you over until
the 5-minute timer kicks in that you mentioned above.

https://www.grc.com/wizmo/wizmo.htm
http://nirsoft.net/utils/nircmd.html