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  #16  
Old April 9th 04, 05:49 AM
mouseyface
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default new computer question

The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
tech support overseas putting techs here out of work. (If the companies
here keep sending work overseas soon there will be no one here to buy
anything since no one will be working and they will wonder why sells have
dropped, eh.) When you call for support you may get a reading from a book
and two techs will give you two different answers for the same problem (one
may void your warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror stories
at PC World and various other magazines and web sites about this. You may
get someone whose English is so bad that you can't even understand them. It
isn't what it used to be, that's why I build my own and have for years (it
is easier to return one bad component).

You may want to try a local computer store (mom and pop variety) since,
lately, they have been getting better scores (PC World). Make sure that
they have been in business for a good while and that they have a good
standing with the BBB. Make sure you get everything in writing and what the
length of the warranty and what the warranty contains. Make sure of their
support. You can pick and choose your components this way - there on site
and it is generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if you are
non-profit.

My opinion only!

"RB" wrote in message
...
Here's an easy one.....

I need to go buy a general purpose pc (full package to include mouse,
keyboard, flat screen monitor), for light duty office email and word
processing. I have to get three competitive bids.

What features/specs, etc, should I be looking for (in addition to Win XP

for
OS) to be able to readily find an economical package? I figure going to
Wal Wart, Circuit City, etc, but want to be comparing apples to apples.




Ads
  #17  
Old April 9th 04, 08:59 AM
w_tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default new computer question

One major problem with that discount (mom and pop) store is
that their power supplies may be missing essential functions
that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy power
supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who would
protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
little computer store; whose people never even learned what
those essential power supply functions are.

But again. How to know that little computer store does not
provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply missing
essential functions (that could destroy other computer
components), but the little computer store does not provide
comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the Dell
would be a better product.

mouseyface wrote:
The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
tech support overseas putting techs here out of work. (If the
companies here keep sending work overseas soon there will be no
one here to buy anything since no one will be working and they
will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you call for
support you may get a reading from a book and two techs will give
you two different answers for the same problem (one may void your
warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror stories
at PC World and various other magazines and web sites about this.
You may get someone whose English is so bad that you can't even
understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's why I build
my own and have for years (it is easier to return one bad
component).

You may want to try a local computer store (mom and pop variety)
since, lately, they have been getting better scores (PC World).
Make sure that they have been in business for a good while and
that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make sure you get
everything in writing and what the length of the warranty and what
the warranty contains. Make sure of their support. You can pick
and choose your components this way - there on site and it is
generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if you are
non-profit.

My opinion only!

  #18  
Old April 9th 04, 09:04 AM
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default new computer question

For example only, there is a computer store here in Wichita
that will build you a computer from the components you
select. They will support it. You can select the case,
power supply, mobo, CPU, what ever you want. You can buy
the parts from them and do it yourself or they will put it
together for you. They seem to be pretty sharp and the shop
area is clean and neat. If you don't know what you want or
need they will help you with the project.

Their prices did not seem out of line, in fact they offered
to order a mobo for me and there price was no higher than
New Egg for the same product.

I hope they are still business when I can afford to upgrade
this computer and build a few more for the family.


"w_tom" wrote in message
...
| One major problem with that discount (mom and pop) store
is
| that their power supplies may be missing essential
functions
| that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
| believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy
power
| supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who would
| protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
| little computer store; whose people never even learned
what
| those essential power supply functions are.
|
| But again. How to know that little computer store does
not
| provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
| diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply
missing
| essential functions (that could destroy other computer
| components), but the little computer store does not
provide
| comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the Dell
| would be a better product.
|
| mouseyface wrote:
| The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
| tech support overseas putting techs here out of work.
(If the
| companies here keep sending work overseas soon there
will be no
| one here to buy anything since no one will be working
and they
| will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you call
for
| support you may get a reading from a book and two techs
will give
| you two different answers for the same problem (one may
void your
| warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror
stories
| at PC World and various other magazines and web sites
about this.
| You may get someone whose English is so bad that you
can't even
| understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's
why I build
| my own and have for years (it is easier to return one
bad
| component).
|
| You may want to try a local computer store (mom and pop
variety)
| since, lately, they have been getting better scores (PC
World).
| Make sure that they have been in business for a good
while and
| that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make sure
you get
| everything in writing and what the length of the
warranty and what
| the warranty contains. Make sure of their support. You
can pick
| and choose your components this way - there on site and
it is
| generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if you
are
| non-profit.
|
| My opinion only!


  #19  
Old April 9th 04, 09:06 AM
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default new computer question

spelling correction
"Jim Macklin" wrote
in message ...
| For example only, there is a computer store here in
Wichita
| that will build you a computer from the components you
| select. They will support it. You can select the case,
| power supply, mobo, CPU, what ever you want. You can buy
| the parts from them and do it yourself or they will put it
| together for you. They seem to be pretty sharp and the
shop
| area is clean and neat. If you don't know what you want
or
| need they will help you with the project.
|
| Their prices did not seem out of line, in fact they
offered
| to order a mobo for me and their price was no higher than
| New Egg for the same product.
|
| I hope they are still business when I can afford to
upgrade
| this computer and build a few more for the family.
|
|
| "w_tom" wrote in message
| ...
| | One major problem with that discount (mom and pop)
store
| is
| | that their power supplies may be missing essential
| functions
| | that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
| | believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy
| power
| | supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who
would
| | protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
| | little computer store; whose people never even learned
| what
| | those essential power supply functions are.
| |
| | But again. How to know that little computer store
does
| not
| | provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
| | diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply
| missing
| | essential functions (that could destroy other computer
| | components), but the little computer store does not
| provide
| | comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the
Dell
| | would be a better product.
| |
| | mouseyface wrote:
| | The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
| | tech support overseas putting techs here out of work.
| (If the
| | companies here keep sending work overseas soon there
| will be no
| | one here to buy anything since no one will be working
| and they
| | will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you
call
| for
| | support you may get a reading from a book and two
techs
| will give
| | you two different answers for the same problem (one
may
| void your
| | warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror
| stories
| | at PC World and various other magazines and web sites
| about this.
| | You may get someone whose English is so bad that you
| can't even
| | understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's
| why I build
| | my own and have for years (it is easier to return one
| bad
| | component).
| |
| | You may want to try a local computer store (mom and
pop
| variety)
| | since, lately, they have been getting better scores
(PC
| World).
| | Make sure that they have been in business for a good
| while and
| | that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make
sure
| you get
| | everything in writing and what the length of the
| warranty and what
| | the warranty contains. Make sure of their support.
You
| can pick
| | and choose your components this way - there on site
and
| it is
| | generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if
you
| are
| | non-profit.
| |
| | My opinion only!
|
|


  #20  
Old April 9th 04, 09:57 AM
mouseyface
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default new computer question

The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
tech support overseas putting techs here out of work. (If the companies
here keep sending work overseas soon there will be no one here to buy
anything since no one will be working and they will wonder why sells have
dropped, eh.) When you call for support you may get a reading from a book
and two techs will give you two different answers for the same problem (one
may void your warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror stories
at PC World and various other magazines and web sites about this. You may
get someone whose English is so bad that you can't even understand them. It
isn't what it used to be, that's why I build my own and have for years (it
is easier to return one bad component).

You may want to try a local computer store (mom and pop variety) since,
lately, they have been getting better scores (PC World). Make sure that
they have been in business for a good while and that they have a good
standing with the BBB. Make sure you get everything in writing and what the
length of the warranty and what the warranty contains. Make sure of their
support. You can pick and choose your components this way - there on site
and it is generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if you are
non-profit.

My opinion only!

"RB" wrote in message
...
Here's an easy one.....

I need to go buy a general purpose pc (full package to include mouse,
keyboard, flat screen monitor), for light duty office email and word
processing. I have to get three competitive bids.

What features/specs, etc, should I be looking for (in addition to Win XP

for
OS) to be able to readily find an economical package? I figure going to
Wal Wart, Circuit City, etc, but want to be comparing apples to apples.




  #21  
Old April 9th 04, 10:29 AM
w_tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default new computer question

One major problem with that discount (mom and pop) store is
that their power supplies may be missing essential functions
that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy power
supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who would
protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
little computer store; whose people never even learned what
those essential power supply functions are.

But again. How to know that little computer store does not
provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply missing
essential functions (that could destroy other computer
components), but the little computer store does not provide
comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the Dell
would be a better product.

mouseyface wrote:
The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
tech support overseas putting techs here out of work. (If the
companies here keep sending work overseas soon there will be no
one here to buy anything since no one will be working and they
will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you call for
support you may get a reading from a book and two techs will give
you two different answers for the same problem (one may void your
warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror stories
at PC World and various other magazines and web sites about this.
You may get someone whose English is so bad that you can't even
understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's why I build
my own and have for years (it is easier to return one bad
component).

You may want to try a local computer store (mom and pop variety)
since, lately, they have been getting better scores (PC World).
Make sure that they have been in business for a good while and
that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make sure you get
everything in writing and what the length of the warranty and what
the warranty contains. Make sure of their support. You can pick
and choose your components this way - there on site and it is
generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if you are
non-profit.

My opinion only!

  #22  
Old April 9th 04, 10:32 AM
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default new computer question

For example only, there is a computer store here in Wichita
that will build you a computer from the components you
select. They will support it. You can select the case,
power supply, mobo, CPU, what ever you want. You can buy
the parts from them and do it yourself or they will put it
together for you. They seem to be pretty sharp and the shop
area is clean and neat. If you don't know what you want or
need they will help you with the project.

Their prices did not seem out of line, in fact they offered
to order a mobo for me and there price was no higher than
New Egg for the same product.

I hope they are still business when I can afford to upgrade
this computer and build a few more for the family.


"w_tom" wrote in message
...
| One major problem with that discount (mom and pop) store
is
| that their power supplies may be missing essential
functions
| that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
| believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy
power
| supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who would
| protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
| little computer store; whose people never even learned
what
| those essential power supply functions are.
|
| But again. How to know that little computer store does
not
| provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
| diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply
missing
| essential functions (that could destroy other computer
| components), but the little computer store does not
provide
| comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the Dell
| would be a better product.
|
| mouseyface wrote:
| The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
| tech support overseas putting techs here out of work.
(If the
| companies here keep sending work overseas soon there
will be no
| one here to buy anything since no one will be working
and they
| will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you call
for
| support you may get a reading from a book and two techs
will give
| you two different answers for the same problem (one may
void your
| warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror
stories
| at PC World and various other magazines and web sites
about this.
| You may get someone whose English is so bad that you
can't even
| understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's
why I build
| my own and have for years (it is easier to return one
bad
| component).
|
| You may want to try a local computer store (mom and pop
variety)
| since, lately, they have been getting better scores (PC
World).
| Make sure that they have been in business for a good
while and
| that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make sure
you get
| everything in writing and what the length of the
warranty and what
| the warranty contains. Make sure of their support. You
can pick
| and choose your components this way - there on site and
it is
| generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if you
are
| non-profit.
|
| My opinion only!


  #23  
Old April 9th 04, 10:32 AM
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default new computer question

spelling correction
"Jim Macklin" wrote
in message ...
| For example only, there is a computer store here in
Wichita
| that will build you a computer from the components you
| select. They will support it. You can select the case,
| power supply, mobo, CPU, what ever you want. You can buy
| the parts from them and do it yourself or they will put it
| together for you. They seem to be pretty sharp and the
shop
| area is clean and neat. If you don't know what you want
or
| need they will help you with the project.
|
| Their prices did not seem out of line, in fact they
offered
| to order a mobo for me and their price was no higher than
| New Egg for the same product.
|
| I hope they are still business when I can afford to
upgrade
| this computer and build a few more for the family.
|
|
| "w_tom" wrote in message
| ...
| | One major problem with that discount (mom and pop)
store
| is
| | that their power supplies may be missing essential
| functions
| | that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
| | believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy
| power
| | supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who
would
| | protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
| | little computer store; whose people never even learned
| what
| | those essential power supply functions are.
| |
| | But again. How to know that little computer store
does
| not
| | provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
| | diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply
| missing
| | essential functions (that could destroy other computer
| | components), but the little computer store does not
| provide
| | comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the
Dell
| | would be a better product.
| |
| | mouseyface wrote:
| | The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
| | tech support overseas putting techs here out of work.
| (If the
| | companies here keep sending work overseas soon there
| will be no
| | one here to buy anything since no one will be working
| and they
| | will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you
call
| for
| | support you may get a reading from a book and two
techs
| will give
| | you two different answers for the same problem (one
may
| void your
| | warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror
| stories
| | at PC World and various other magazines and web sites
| about this.
| | You may get someone whose English is so bad that you
| can't even
| | understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's
| why I build
| | my own and have for years (it is easier to return one
| bad
| | component).
| |
| | You may want to try a local computer store (mom and
pop
| variety)
| | since, lately, they have been getting better scores
(PC
| World).
| | Make sure that they have been in business for a good
| while and
| | that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make
sure
| you get
| | everything in writing and what the length of the
| warranty and what
| | the warranty contains. Make sure of their support.
You
| can pick
| | and choose your components this way - there on site
and
| it is
| | generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if
you
| are
| | non-profit.
| |
| | My opinion only!
|
|


  #24  
Old April 9th 04, 01:47 PM
w_tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default new computer question

One major problem with that discount (mom and pop) store is
that their power supplies may be missing essential functions
that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy power
supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who would
protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
little computer store; whose people never even learned what
those essential power supply functions are.

But again. How to know that little computer store does not
provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply missing
essential functions (that could destroy other computer
components), but the little computer store does not provide
comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the Dell
would be a better product.

mouseyface wrote:
The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
tech support overseas putting techs here out of work. (If the
companies here keep sending work overseas soon there will be no
one here to buy anything since no one will be working and they
will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you call for
support you may get a reading from a book and two techs will give
you two different answers for the same problem (one may void your
warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror stories
at PC World and various other magazines and web sites about this.
You may get someone whose English is so bad that you can't even
understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's why I build
my own and have for years (it is easier to return one bad
component).

You may want to try a local computer store (mom and pop variety)
since, lately, they have been getting better scores (PC World).
Make sure that they have been in business for a good while and
that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make sure you get
everything in writing and what the length of the warranty and what
the warranty contains. Make sure of their support. You can pick
and choose your components this way - there on site and it is
generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if you are
non-profit.

My opinion only!

  #25  
Old April 9th 04, 01:49 PM
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default new computer question

For example only, there is a computer store here in Wichita
that will build you a computer from the components you
select. They will support it. You can select the case,
power supply, mobo, CPU, what ever you want. You can buy
the parts from them and do it yourself or they will put it
together for you. They seem to be pretty sharp and the shop
area is clean and neat. If you don't know what you want or
need they will help you with the project.

Their prices did not seem out of line, in fact they offered
to order a mobo for me and there price was no higher than
New Egg for the same product.

I hope they are still business when I can afford to upgrade
this computer and build a few more for the family.


"w_tom" wrote in message
...
| One major problem with that discount (mom and pop) store
is
| that their power supplies may be missing essential
functions
| that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
| believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy
power
| supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who would
| protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
| little computer store; whose people never even learned
what
| those essential power supply functions are.
|
| But again. How to know that little computer store does
not
| provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
| diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply
missing
| essential functions (that could destroy other computer
| components), but the little computer store does not
provide
| comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the Dell
| would be a better product.
|
| mouseyface wrote:
| The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
| tech support overseas putting techs here out of work.
(If the
| companies here keep sending work overseas soon there
will be no
| one here to buy anything since no one will be working
and they
| will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you call
for
| support you may get a reading from a book and two techs
will give
| you two different answers for the same problem (one may
void your
| warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror
stories
| at PC World and various other magazines and web sites
about this.
| You may get someone whose English is so bad that you
can't even
| understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's
why I build
| my own and have for years (it is easier to return one
bad
| component).
|
| You may want to try a local computer store (mom and pop
variety)
| since, lately, they have been getting better scores (PC
World).
| Make sure that they have been in business for a good
while and
| that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make sure
you get
| everything in writing and what the length of the
warranty and what
| the warranty contains. Make sure of their support. You
can pick
| and choose your components this way - there on site and
it is
| generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if you
are
| non-profit.
|
| My opinion only!


  #26  
Old April 9th 04, 01:50 PM
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default new computer question

spelling correction
"Jim Macklin" wrote
in message ...
| For example only, there is a computer store here in
Wichita
| that will build you a computer from the components you
| select. They will support it. You can select the case,
| power supply, mobo, CPU, what ever you want. You can buy
| the parts from them and do it yourself or they will put it
| together for you. They seem to be pretty sharp and the
shop
| area is clean and neat. If you don't know what you want
or
| need they will help you with the project.
|
| Their prices did not seem out of line, in fact they
offered
| to order a mobo for me and their price was no higher than
| New Egg for the same product.
|
| I hope they are still business when I can afford to
upgrade
| this computer and build a few more for the family.
|
|
| "w_tom" wrote in message
| ...
| | One major problem with that discount (mom and pop)
store
| is
| | that their power supplies may be missing essential
| functions
| | that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
| | believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy
| power
| | supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who
would
| | protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
| | little computer store; whose people never even learned
| what
| | those essential power supply functions are.
| |
| | But again. How to know that little computer store
does
| not
| | provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
| | diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply
| missing
| | essential functions (that could destroy other computer
| | components), but the little computer store does not
| provide
| | comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the
Dell
| | would be a better product.
| |
| | mouseyface wrote:
| | The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
| | tech support overseas putting techs here out of work.
| (If the
| | companies here keep sending work overseas soon there
| will be no
| | one here to buy anything since no one will be working
| and they
| | will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you
call
| for
| | support you may get a reading from a book and two
techs
| will give
| | you two different answers for the same problem (one
may
| void your
| | warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror
| stories
| | at PC World and various other magazines and web sites
| about this.
| | You may get someone whose English is so bad that you
| can't even
| | understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's
| why I build
| | my own and have for years (it is easier to return one
| bad
| | component).
| |
| | You may want to try a local computer store (mom and
pop
| variety)
| | since, lately, they have been getting better scores
(PC
| World).
| | Make sure that they have been in business for a good
| while and
| | that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make
sure
| you get
| | everything in writing and what the length of the
| warranty and what
| | the warranty contains. Make sure of their support.
You
| can pick
| | and choose your components this way - there on site
and
| it is
| | generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if
you
| are
| | non-profit.
| |
| | My opinion only!
|
|


  #27  
Old April 9th 04, 01:55 PM
Papa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default new computer question

I totally disagree on two counts.

One, there is no such thing as a modern computer power supply that lacks
some "essential functions". Sure, some power supplies are under powered (100
watts, for example) or are of poor quality, but lacking essential functions?
No.

Two, the people at every Mom and Pop computer store I have ever visited
possess far more technical knowledge than their counterparts at the larger
computer outlets - who are almost always just clerks having little knowledge
and - at most - possessing only a script to answer customers questions.
Further, the Mom and Pop stores are flexible enough to give the customer
exactly what he wants, including component brand selection and
non-proprietary hardware. Guess who sells the low quality, proprietary,
difficult to upgrade systems to unsuspecting customers? Ever heard of
E-Machines, Packard Bell, or Compaq? These brands do not come from Mom and
Pop stores.

And why the emphasis on Intel? Amd is another perfectly good option.

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
One major problem with that discount (mom and pop) store is
that their power supplies may be missing essential functions
that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy power
supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who would
protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
little computer store; whose people never even learned what
those essential power supply functions are.

But again. How to know that little computer store does not
provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply missing
essential functions (that could destroy other computer
components), but the little computer store does not provide
comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the Dell
would be a better product.

mouseyface wrote:
The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
tech support overseas putting techs here out of work. (If the
companies here keep sending work overseas soon there will be no
one here to buy anything since no one will be working and they
will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you call for
support you may get a reading from a book and two techs will give
you two different answers for the same problem (one may void your
warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror stories
at PC World and various other magazines and web sites about this.
You may get someone whose English is so bad that you can't even
understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's why I build
my own and have for years (it is easier to return one bad
component).

You may want to try a local computer store (mom and pop variety)
since, lately, they have been getting better scores (PC World).
Make sure that they have been in business for a good while and
that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make sure you get
everything in writing and what the length of the warranty and what
the warranty contains. Make sure of their support. You can pick
and choose your components this way - there on site and it is
generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if you are
non-profit.

My opinion only!



  #28  
Old April 13th 04, 08:57 PM
w_tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default new computer question

I find power supplies often missing essential functions.
Missing functions are most common in clone computers. Intel
had even stated what specific functions must exist in a power
supply (if AMD provides such technical specs for power
supplies, then please provide the URL).

Ballpark numbers - a power supply selling for $20 or $30 is
routinely missing those essential functions. Power supplies
that include those essential functions typically sell in the
$60 and $70 region. This does not say all $60+ power supplies
are properly built. But those $20 and $30 supplies are always
missing essential functions.

Again, this is old, simple, basic, techical knowledge. If a
computer assembler does not even know this, then his job is
'prime ready' to be outsourced to Asia. Unfortunately too
many computer 'experts' don't even know the essential
functions that must be in a power supply - which is why Asian
manufacturers have found a very lucritive market in N America
for inferior but low priced power supplies.

Demonstrate one essential function in power supplies: short
together all the DC voltage outputs and power up. Power
supply must not be damaged. Again this was even a defacto
standard 30 years ago. Intel specs even say how big the wire
must be to short all outputs together (please provide the AMD
spec?). This simple test often destroys many unacceptable
supplies routinely found in clone computers. Why? I would
bet many computer assembler here have always assumed this test
would destroy power supplies - only because they have seen a
shorted power supply fail. IOW they never first learned basic
electrical knowledge which is one reason why jobs end up in
Asia. These same people would also recommend that computer
from a 'mon & pop' store when the only spec used to select a
supply was dollars.

Again, a ballpark measure of any acceptable computer - does
the manufacturer provide comprehensive diagnostics. Gateway
does not. Those discount computer assembler stores do not.
Diagnostics are a simple benchmark to find computers built on
an engineering basis - not built using a bean counter
mentality. Too many are so ill informed as to think every
power supply sold to clone computer assemblers contains
essential functions. Unfortunately too many don't even know
what those essential functions are.

BTW there is no relationship between watts and quality.
Many naive computer assemblers assoicate more watts with more
quality. Some of the worst quality power supply are the
grossly oversized 500+ watt supplies. Higher quality supplies
in brand name computers are on the order of 250 and 350 watts.

But lets learn more. Ok Papa. What are the essential
functions inside a power supply? Please demonstrate knowledge
gleaned from those mom and pop computer stores. What are the
essential functions that power supplies had even 30 years ago?

Papa wrote:
I totally disagree on two counts.

One, there is no such thing as a modern computer power supply that
lacks some "essential functions". Sure, some power supplies are
under powered (100 watts, for example) or are of poor quality, but
lacking essential functions?
No.

Two, the people at every Mom and Pop computer store I have ever
visited possess far more technical knowledge than their
counterparts at the larger computer outlets - who are almost
always just clerks having little knowledge and - at most -
possessing only a script to answer customers questions.
Further, the Mom and Pop stores are flexible enough to give the
customer exactly what he wants, including component brand
selection and non-proprietary hardware. Guess who sells the low
quality, proprietary, difficult to upgrade systems to
unsuspecting customers? Ever heard of E-Machines, Packard Bell,
or Compaq? These brands do not come from Mom and Pop stores.

And why the emphasis on Intel? Amd is another perfectly good option.

  #29  
Old April 13th 04, 09:36 PM
Papa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default new computer question

Well, you have thrown around that term, "missing essential functions" a
bunch of times. Yet you never say exactly what those functions are. Not too
credible, to say the least. I really doubt if you even know.

By the way, unless you love getting spam, you should not use your real email
address in NG posts. That's the mark of a "newbie".


  #30  
Old April 13th 04, 09:42 PM
Frank
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default new computer question


"w_tom" wrote in message
...
One major problem with that discount (mom and pop) store is
that their power supplies may be missing essential functions
that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy power
supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who would
protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
little computer store; whose people never even learned what
those essential power supply functions are.


What unknown functions can be missing from a power supply
if one reads the label. You sound like a person that wants to
put forth no effort and wants someone else to do things for you.


But again. How to know that little computer store does not
provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply missing
essential functions (that could destroy other computer
components), but the little computer store does not provide
comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the Dell
would be a better product.

mouseyface wrote:
The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
tech support overseas putting techs here out of work. (If the
companies here keep sending work overseas soon there will be no
one here to buy anything since no one will be working and they
will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you call for
support you may get a reading from a book and two techs will give
you two different answers for the same problem (one may void your
warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror stories
at PC World and various other magazines and web sites about this.
You may get someone whose English is so bad that you can't even
understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's why I build
my own and have for years (it is easier to return one bad
component).

You may want to try a local computer store (mom and pop variety)
since, lately, they have been getting better scores (PC World).
Make sure that they have been in business for a good while and
that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make sure you get
everything in writing and what the length of the warranty and what
the warranty contains. Make sure of their support. You can pick
and choose your components this way - there on site and it is
generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if you are
non-profit.

My opinion only!



 




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