Where does one get advice about Apple products?

On 2/22/14 7:50 PM, Mayayana wrote:
| Just had to chuckle, if you read the Recommended Email Application
| thread, you'll find a similar discussion brewing between Word likers and
| Word Perfect likers.
|
| So, as I said, try them out, and get to know at least some of the
| details/intricacies of the iPads before you decide if you wish to keep
them.
|
| Or, to put it more simply using an old bromide, "Don't judge a book by
| its cover."

The issue seems to be whether she has a use for
tablets, more than an issue between brands. It's not
a matter of whether to "give Apple a chance". What if
she tries them out and decides she doesn't want them?
It doesn't sound like she has an option to use them for
awhile and then trade them in.

I just reread Susan's post, to me it reads she's frustrated with two
OSes, not that she may not have a use for a tablet.

If she doesn't want them, she can always sell them. I just want her to
get to know iOS well enough to give them a fair chance. And that will
take more than a few hours, although if her Android phone is as touch
enabled as it could be, it may not take her too long to get the touch
aspect under control.

Personally I still don't have any use for a tablet.
If they cost under $50 I might want one for reading
long articles, so that I could sit on the sofa. But we
have a jailbroken Kindle here and I've still yet to use
it. Small e-screens are simply not a comfortable way
to read text. If I'm going to leave my 24" monitor for
the comfort of a sofa or reading chair I'd rather just
print the text to paper.

A little over 2 years ago, I didn't want one either. Then I saw my
sister's Kindle. At the same time, I was starting some research on
local history. I was downloading scanned books from the web that were
over 100 years old, then printing them. Expensive, and takes up a lot
of shelf space I didn't have. A little research told me I could be
reading these scanned books on a tablet.

A couple months ago, I bought a Google 2013 Nexus 7, 32 GB RAM. And I
love it! As for the readability of those old books, they are PDF files,
once I zoom the text area to fit the screen, the text is the same size
as all the paperback books I have on the shelf. Including the Lord of
the Rings Trilogy. G

If anyone is curious as to how this came about, just ask. But I don't
want to bore anyone if no one is interested.

I took a friend shopping awhile back, to see what's
available for tablets. At the Apple Church the clerk couldn't
tell me whether there was a usable file system on the iPad.
After some exploring, it turned out that there apparently is:
an "app" named, appropriately, iExplorer. But it was clear
that customers were not expected to actually manage
their own files. Apparently one is expected to rent iBooks
and iEntertainment from the iStore.

Yea, those young whippersnappers at Apple Stores don't know squat, IMO.
Never used the Genius Bar, but don't have high expectations there
either. A tablet is a computer, for Pete's sake, there has to be a
filesystem. None of them seem to give you access to it out of the box.
You have to have 3rd party software.

Apple seems to be moving in the "Keep Users Ignorant" direction. And
most computer users of all types don't seem to care or have the
curiosity like many here do. My sister is one of those, want's to use
her computer, but never knows where anything is on it. "I couldn't find
it" is the common lament. But will she take the time to learn the file
system (Win 7) like her paper files??? OOoooohhhh, no, takes too much
time. I've pretty much given up.

This keep users ignorant, and taking user capabilities away, is part of
the reason this may be the one and only Mac I'll ever own. Started with
10.5 Leopard, but don't think I'll ever upgrade from 10.8 Mountain Lion
to 10.9 Mavericks, as Mavericks offers me nothing that interests me AFAIK.

The we went to the Microsoft store. The Surface tablets,
like the iPads, were wildly overpriced. And of course Microsoft
is in on the same racket: trying to hook people into online
services through a limited device.

Both MS and Apple are wanting to rope you into making monthly payments
for something you should be able to run from your own computer. If you
think about it, the industry seems to moving back to the same situation
that spawned personal computers, except the IT know it all, control it
all people are in Cupertino and Redmond, not in the office basement.

There was an interesting
Acer tablet for about $500 with full Windows 8. But the more
I looked at tablets the more I realized I was looking for something
that could give me the functionality of a PC: Real software.
File storage. Multiple media ports. Preferably a CD writer.
Definitely an option for mouse and keyboard. Looked at that
way, a tablet makes no sense. Given the limitations and
lock-in with tablets I'd almost expect them to be given away
for free.

I'd agree here, plus I don't understand the clamor over size and space.
I've got a Gateway netbook here, Win 7 Starter. For practical
purposes, exactly the same size as a 10" tablet except being twice as
thick. And sufficient ports that you can add external peripherals that
can't be included due to size and space.

On the other hand, I know people who like to read
news online or shop via tablet. Some people seem to
find them very handy. To each their own. (I suspect that
the majority of buyers bought for novelty, egged on by the
mainstream media, flooded as it is with press releases about
how tablets are the future.)

I wouldn't be surprised if novelty was an early reason for a tablet
purchase. I ended up looking for an "ereader on steroids", as I
described it. If I was reading an old book, and another book was
mentioned, I wanted to be able to search the web and download without
having to get to a desktop. All the old materials I've downloaded are
on an external USB drive attached to this Mac. The Nexus 7 and all the
Windows computers I've mentioned are all networked for file sharing, so
once a book is downloaded to the tablet, I can copy/move it to the
external drive over the network.

If this were me I wouldn't be much concerned with whether
it's an iPad, Surface, Kindle, or whatever. The question would
be whether I actually want two tablets, assuming that I
have the option to get something else of equivalent value, like
say a new PC and toaster oven.... an expensive laptop.... or maybe
a washer, dryer and TV. One pays a dear premium these days
for small size in electronics. I could think of a thousand better
things to spend $1,000 on than two tablets.

Originally, before making a purchasing decision, the iPad Mini was the
winner. Then Kindle came out with the Fire HDX, and I found out about
the Nexus 7. All three would do what I wanted, but have to admit the
price did come into play. And iOS has syncing features with OS X and
all Apple devices that were of no use or interest to me.

FWIW and Susan's benefit, I've read elsewhere that while all 3
platforms, Win8/Surface, Android, and iOS can all do the same things,
the general comments were the iOS apps simply were more polished and
worked better.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 24.0

On 2/22/14 8:44 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 2/22/2014, Ken Springer posted:
Just had to chuckle, if you read the Recommended Email Application
thread, you'll find a similar discussion brewing between Word
likers
and Word Perfect likers.

Who, me?

:-)

Now, why would you think that??????? LOL

It must just be paranoia, doncha think?

More like senility and Alzheimers! LOL


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 24.0

In article , Ken Springer
wrote:

Yea, those young whippersnappers at Apple Stores don't know squat, IMO.
Never used the Genius Bar, but don't have high expectations there
either. A tablet is a computer, for Pete's sake, there has to be a
filesystem. None of them seem to give you access to it out of the box.
You have to have 3rd party software.

it's also not needed. dealing with files is a pain. there are much
better ways.

nearly all of the files aren't of any interest to the user, notably the
system itself.

the user always has access to the documents an app creates, which is
what matters.

Apple seems to be moving in the "Keep Users Ignorant" direction. And
most computer users of all types don't seem to care or have the
curiosity like many here do. My sister is one of those, want's to use
her computer, but never knows where anything is on it. "I couldn't find
it" is the common lament. But will she take the time to learn the file
system (Win 7) like her paper files??? OOoooohhhh, no, takes too much
time. I've pretty much given up.

exactly why going beyond the file system is a good thing.

normal users, i.e., non-geeks, which is the vast majority of users,
don't understand file systems and they find it confusing. they don't
want file managers.

This keep users ignorant, and taking user capabilities away, is part of
the reason this may be the one and only Mac I'll ever own. Started with
10.5 Leopard, but don't think I'll ever upgrade from 10.8 Mountain Lion
to 10.9 Mavericks, as Mavericks offers me nothing that interests me AFAIK.

although i agree on mavericks not offering much over mountain lion,
there is absolutely nothing about os x that keeps users ignorant.

users can go as deep as they want. there is nothing blocking access to
any part of the system. install the developer tools and write a kernel
extension if you want. write bash scripts. do whatever you want.

The we went to the Microsoft store. The Surface tablets,
like the iPads, were wildly overpriced. And of course Microsoft
is in on the same racket: trying to hook people into online
services through a limited device.

Both MS and Apple are wanting to rope you into making monthly payments
for something you should be able to run from your own computer.

they might like that but it's not required. you can continue to run
whatever you want on the computer without any payments to anyone.

If you
think about it, the industry seems to moving back to the same situation
that spawned personal computers, except the IT know it all, control it
all people are in Cupertino and Redmond, not in the office basement.

it is, but it's not a conspiracy of apple and microsoft.

mobile is the future, which means the cloud will be a huge part of it.
the way to monetize the cloud is making it a service.

adobe made the bold move to turn creative suite into a subscription
based option and their subscriptions are happening faster than they
expected it to be.

that's what people want. not everyone of course, but that's just how it
goes.

There was an interesting
Acer tablet for about $500 with full Windows 8. But the more
I looked at tablets the more I realized I was looking for something
that could give me the functionality of a PC: Real software.
File storage. Multiple media ports. Preferably a CD writer.
Definitely an option for mouse and keyboard. Looked at that
way, a tablet makes no sense. Given the limitations and
lock-in with tablets I'd almost expect them to be given away
for free.

I'd agree here, plus I don't understand the clamor over size and space.
I've got a Gateway netbook here, Win 7 Starter. For practical
purposes, exactly the same size as a 10" tablet except being twice as
thick. And sufficient ports that you can add external peripherals that
can't be included due to size and space.

that thickness is key, as is the weight.

an ipad can slip into a large pocket in a coat and around 1 pound, it's
not noticeable.

as for peripherals, it quickly becomes a mess of stuff to carry, with
the devices and cables and power adapters in some cases.

FWIW and Susan's benefit, I've read elsewhere that while all 3
platforms, Win8/Surface, Android, and iOS can all do the same things,
the general comments were the iOS apps simply were more polished and
worked better.

that is the consensus.

i have both android and ios devices. they both have their advantages
and disadvantages.

In article , Todd
wrote:

What I tell my customers about the difference between
tablets and laptops/desktops is that tablets are
wonderful for receiving information but are horrible
for inputting/creating information., If you are
creating tings, you need a full computer.

sometimes.

a lot of people create content with a tablet, and a lot of people only
consume with a laptop.

and you can always use a bluetooth keyboard with a tablet.

I do work for a local ISP at times. One of my
annoying calls is asking the customer to use one of
his computers to configure his router. And, all they
have are iPads. (I "might" say a bad word under
my breath.) IPads give new meaning to the term
"hunt and peck" and I know how to type.

there's not a lot to type to configure a router. it's mostly toggling
checkboxes or entering in numbers.

One of the things that cracks me up a bit about
iPad and Frankenstein (Windows 8) is the method older
iPads use to end programs. Sweep them off the
top. On Frankenstein, you sweep them off the bottom.
(I get so annoyed with Frankenstein that I open the
task manager and clean house!)

actually that's newer ipads and it came from palm's web os.

it used to be tapping a tiny x in a jiggling icon to quit.

The single worst problem I find with iPad users
is that they have too much stuff running. And
too many tabs open on their browsers. (I show
them how to jab at the "X" in the tab.)

i know people with over 100 tabs on their laptop.

it's their way of bookmarking things. they just go to a particular tab
and look at its updated content.

not what i'd do but it works for them.

Susan O'Reilly wrote:

I know nothing about Apple products!

I received, as a retirement gift, a pickup order at the Apple store for:
1. iPad Air Wi-Fi + Cellular for T-Mobile 64GB
2. iPad mini w Retina display Wi-Fi + Cellular for T-Mobile 64GB

The gift is sort of a joke, because I've been complaining about Windows
for the last decade, and more recently, about Android - but now I have
to make a decision because everyone chipped in for two iPads for me.

Should I pick up these two items, or, should I get a laptop instead?

Get a Macbook Air http://www.apple.com/au/macbook-air/. I was so
impressed that I rushed out and bought a Toshiba Windows ultrabook
The Toshiba was cheaper, lighter and more powerful than the Air at the
time but it was not nearly as good looking. If you need cellular
access then you can use your Android phone as a WiFi hotspot.

Note: I don't have data on my T-Mobile Android 4.3 cellphone and I
only have a Windows desktop with WiFi at home, so I can't really
use two iPads (although I can let the grandkids play with it).

What would you recommend?
(Where is the right place to ask this advice?)

Sell them to a dopey chink, their the imbeciles keeping the company afloat.

Susan O'Reilly wrote:

I know nothing about Apple products!

I received, as a retirement gift, a pickup order at the Apple store for:
1. iPad Air Wi-Fi + Cellular for T-Mobile 64GB
2. iPad mini w Retina display Wi-Fi + Cellular for T-Mobile 64GB

The gift is sort of a joke, because I've been complaining about Windows
for the last decade, and more recently, about Android - but now I have
to make a decision because everyone chipped in for two iPads for me.

Should I pick up these two items, or, should I get a laptop instead?

Note: I don't have data on my T-Mobile Android 4.3 cellphone and I
only have a Windows desktop with WiFi at home, so I can't really
use two iPads (although I can let the grandkids play with it).

What would you recommend?
(Where is the right place to ask this advice?)

--
The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG

Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city

Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know proper
manners

Very few. Ya know ahh, ahhh I used to take calls from *rank* noobs but got
fired the first day on the job for potty mouth,

Bur-ring, i'll get this one: WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM JERK!!? We're here to help
you dickweed, ok, ok give the power cord the jiggily piggily wiggily all the
while pushing the power button repeatedly now take everything out of your
computer except the power supply and *one* stick of ram. Subscriber asks
will that ****in' work? I guaranDAMtee it. Ok get the next sucker on the
phone.

I'm not Sam Hong but we both hate Roxio. Sam Hong pulled Roxio's Dong!

There's the employer and the employee and the FROGGER and the FROGEE, which
one are you?

Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!

El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar (I just got EL-FROG-OED!!)

All hail Chuckcar the CZAR!! Or in F-R-O-Gland Chuckcar laFROG laCZAR,
ChuckZar!!

I hate them both, With useless bogus bull**** you need at least *three*
fulltime jobs to afford either one of them

I'm a fulltime text *only* man on usenet now. The rest of the world
downloads the binary files not me i can't afford thousands of dollars a
month

VBB = Volume based billing. How many bytes can we shove down your throat and
out your arse sir?

The only "fix" for the CellPig modem is a sledgehammer.

UBB = User based bullFROGGING

Colonel Debeers refuses to wrestle a black man
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3-o_dPhbGI)

Master Juba was a black man imitating a white man imitating a black man

Always do incremental backups of your data or you'll end up like the A To
Z(Zee)-Holes at DSL Reports. Justin says i made a boo-boo. Yeah boo-who.

Updates are for idiots. As long as the thing works there's no reason to turn

schizophrenic and develop a lifelong complex over such a silly issue.

You don't have to be "stink-bottomed" to post on this newsgroup

Anyone who disagrees with me gets FROG tape over their yapper

Adrian "jackpot" Lewis is a mama's boy!

Jimmy Fricke is good for the game of poker

Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions beyond
the realm of understandability

Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday

This sig file was compiled via my journeys through usenet

On 2/22/14 10:02 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Ken Springer
wrote:

Yea, those young whippersnappers at Apple Stores don't know squat, IMO.
Never used the Genius Bar, but don't have high expectations there
either. A tablet is a computer, for Pete's sake, there has to be a
filesystem. None of them seem to give you access to it out of the box.
You have to have 3rd party software.

it's also not needed. dealing with files is a pain. there are much
better ways.

nearly all of the files aren't of any interest to the user, notably the
system itself.

IMO, you can pretty much say this about any OS.

the user always has access to the documents an app creates, which is
what matters.

Unless you want to organize all files relating to a single project all
in one places, accessible from one screen.

Apple seems to be moving in the "Keep Users Ignorant" direction. And
most computer users of all types don't seem to care or have the
curiosity like many here do. My sister is one of those, want's to use
her computer, but never knows where anything is on it. "I couldn't find
it" is the common lament. But will she take the time to learn the file
system (Win 7) like her paper files??? OOoooohhhh, no, takes too much
time. I've pretty much given up.

exactly why going beyond the file system is a good thing.

normal users, i.e., non-geeks, which is the vast majority of users,
don't understand file systems and they find it confusing. they don't
want file managers.

They don't understand because they don't take the time to learn. :-(

This keep users ignorant, and taking user capabilities away, is part of
the reason this may be the one and only Mac I'll ever own. Started with
10.5 Leopard, but don't think I'll ever upgrade from 10.8 Mountain Lion
to 10.9 Mavericks, as Mavericks offers me nothing that interests me AFAIK.

although i agree on mavericks not offering much over mountain lion,
there is absolutely nothing about os x that keeps users ignorant.

users can go as deep as they want. there is nothing blocking access to
any part of the system. install the developer tools and write a kernel
extension if you want. write bash scripts. do whatever you want.

Users doing this are not the average/normal user. With Windows, you can
do some of these types of things from the UI. Even the users in my Mac
club bitch about having to use the terminal to do some things, when it
could be much easier for the user if the OS allowed it in the UI.

And if the users won't learn the file system, what are the odds they
will learn programming? That aspect of computing isn't something I'm
interested in. And really, if everyone has to deal with an aspect of
programming to do something, isn't everyone reinventing the wheel?

The we went to the Microsoft store. The Surface tablets,
like the iPads, were wildly overpriced. And of course Microsoft
is in on the same racket: trying to hook people into online
services through a limited device.

Both MS and Apple are wanting to rope you into making monthly payments
for something you should be able to run from your own computer.

they might like that but it's not required. you can continue to run
whatever you want on the computer without any payments to anyone.

Are you sure? What about Office 365 Premium?
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/...ctID.286395000
Can you run this on your computer and not pay a subscription?

And from what I've read, and tried once, there are now apps that are not
installed on your computer, you access it from a server somewhere. Exit
the app, it's not on your computer.

If you
think about it, the industry seems to moving back to the same situation
that spawned personal computers, except the IT know it all, control it
all people are in Cupertino and Redmond, not in the office basement.

it is, but it's not a conspiracy of apple and microsoft.

I don't believe in this type of conspiracy, but both have realized that
it's the only way to be profitable in the software arena in the future.

It's like the Office 365 subscription at $100/yr. For the features the
vast majority of users take advantage of, in less than a year you would
have owned the licensed for Home and Student. Note also, that two
"features" of Office 365 are currently free.

mobile is the future, which means the cloud will be a huge part of it.
the way to monetize the cloud is making it a service.

adobe made the bold move to turn creative suite into a subscription
based option and their subscriptions are happening faster than they
expected it to be.

that's what people want. not everyone of course, but that's just how it
goes.

I have to believe a certain percentage of this isn't necessarily what
people want, it's what they buy do to ignorance and good sales pitches.

There was an interesting
Acer tablet for about $500 with full Windows 8. But the more
I looked at tablets the more I realized I was looking for something
that could give me the functionality of a PC: Real software.
File storage. Multiple media ports. Preferably a CD writer.
Definitely an option for mouse and keyboard. Looked at that
way, a tablet makes no sense. Given the limitations and
lock-in with tablets I'd almost expect them to be given away
for free.

I'd agree here, plus I don't understand the clamor over size and space.
I've got a Gateway netbook here, Win 7 Starter. For practical
purposes, exactly the same size as a 10" tablet except being twice as
thick. And sufficient ports that you can add external peripherals that
can't be included due to size and space.

that thickness is key, as is the weight.

an ipad can slip into a large pocket in a coat and around 1 pound, it's
not noticeable.

as for peripherals, it quickly becomes a mess of stuff to carry, with
the devices and cables and power adapters in some cases.

That it does. I found myself in just this situation eventually with the
netbook I bought. In the case of the Nexus 7, there's a very remote
chance that someday I may wish to be able to control a projector for
presentations, but by then the Nexus will probably be an antique. LOL

FWIW and Susan's benefit, I've read elsewhere that while all 3
platforms, Win8/Surface, Android, and iOS can all do the same things,
the general comments were the iOS apps simply were more polished and
worked better.

that is the consensus.

i have both android and ios devices. they both have their advantages
and disadvantages.



--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 24.0

On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 21:15:21 -0500, nospam wrote:

more windows users buy ipads than those who have macs.

Simply because there are more Windows users than Mac users (or Linux
users come to that).

Note that nospam is a compulsive arguer who will
argue about anything as long as someone will
engage him, altering the topic as necessary in
order to "win". He's responsible for threads going
into the hundreds of posts on the photo group and
is a fanatical Apple defender. I guess he got here
via the android cross-post.
Consider yourself warned.

On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 21:15:19 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Ken Blake
wrote:

I remember talking to my brother-in-law, and asking him whether he
could read e-books on his iPad. He said, "no, I can read i-books." No
matter how hard I tried, I couldn't convince him that an i-book is a
brand of e-book, just as a Ford is a brand of car.

no.

ibooks is not a brand of ebooks.

ibooks is one app that can read ebooks on an ipad or iphone in a
variety of formats.

there are other ebook apps available, including kindle.


Are you my brother-in-law?

| What I tell my customers about the difference between
| tablets and laptops/desktops is that tablets are
| wonderful for receiving information but are horrible
| for inputting/creating information., If you are
| creating tings, you need a full computer.
|

That does seem to be the simplest, clearest way to
distinguish between them: creation vs consumption.

| By the way, if you are interested in Linux,
| you don't have to commit instantly. You
| can download a "Live CD" and boot off the
| CD (it really is a CD, not a DVD) and play
| with it before committing.

I looked into Linux in 1999, mostly out of curiosity.
After weeks of fiddling around I finally had a system
set up and pretty much knew how to do the basics.
It was fun. Then I realized the importance of software.
Linux had come with hundreds of half-baked programs
(like multiple, primitive email programs named after trees,
for instance) that constituted a sort of war memorial to
past Linux contributors. But the programs were nearly
all completely useless.

Over the years I've checked in on Linux occasionally.
I came up with a test of sorts: If I could set up basic
software and a firewall that can block outgoing processes
without having to resort to arcane command line tedium,
or editing files somewhere deep in /etc, then maybe Linux
was ready for prime time. So far Linux hasn't passed
my test.

Worse, from what I've seen it's been adding the
problems of commercial software. Last time I tried it
out (either Suse or Mandriva; I've forgotten which) they
were adding the same complications that Win7 added:
Admin isn't really admin. Root isn't really root. A whole
new level of expertise is required to circumvent the
new "features" intended to protect me from myself.
I had a very difficult time just picking the partition I
wanted to install to. The Linux installer was being as
parochial as the Windows installer. ("You said G drive
but you must have meant C drive. We'll go with C drive.
Thank you for flying Linux. Now please just sit back and
enjoy the flight.")

When Win7 came out I started looking into WINE,
thinking that if I had to give up XP then maybe it would
make sense to switch to Linux w/WINE. That seemed like
an interesting possibility. But as with most things Linux,
WINE is in a perpetual state of partial completion (going on
20 years now). It's developed by mostly young, male
geeks who want to play Windows games and impress their
peers with their programming skills. It might be quite
something if they had rendered WINE as a mirror API for
Windows programmers. Instead, it's more like a flimsy VM
that needs to be tweaked for individual programs. And as
usual for anything Linux, the docs are very limited. (One
even has to compile the help docs!) The system is not
intended for use by Windows programmers directly, which
creates a regettable bottleneck for WINE development.

With some work I can render Win7 as a reasonably
usable system, and it seems to be possible to fully block
Microsoft's Win7 spyware. It's a bloated, restrictive, spyware
mess that I prefer not to deal with, but it's not nearly bad
enough to make Linux look good.
Maybe Win8 is that bad. Hard to say. I don't have a lot
of hope for Linux anymore. And I just don't have much interest
in spending the time experimenting with it. I don't mind that
a system needs to be set up. But then I expect it to work.
I don't want to feel that I have to put on my repairman
suit every time I turn on my PC. To my mind there's just no
excuse for needing console windows and obscure, hidden
configuration files in a modern OS. As the AppleSeeds might
say, there should be "a UI for that".

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 09:14:14 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote:

Note that nospam is a compulsive arguer who will
argue about anything as long as someone will
engage him, altering the topic as necessary in
order to "win". He's responsible for threads going
into the hundreds of posts on the photo group and
is a fanatical Apple defender. I guess he got here
via the android cross-post.
Consider yourself warned.


I just replied to a message he wrote. I guess I shouldn't have.

| What I tell my customers about the difference between
| tablets and laptops/desktops is that tablets are
| wonderful for receiving information but are horrible
| for inputting/creating information., If you are
| creating tings, you need a full computer.
|

That does seem to be the simplest, clearest way to
distinguish between them: creation vs consumption.

| By the way, if you are interested in Linux,
| you don't have to commit instantly. You
| can download a "Live CD" and boot off the
| CD (it really is a CD, not a DVD) and play
| with it before committing.

I looked into Linux in 1999, mostly out of curiosity.
After weeks of fiddling around I finally had a system
set up and pretty much knew how to do the basics.
It was fun. Then I realized the importance of software.
Linux had come with hundreds of half-baked programs
(like multiple, primitive email programs named after trees,
for instance) that constituted a sort of war memorial to
past Linux contributors. But the programs were nearly
all completely useless.

Over the years I've checked in on Linux occasionally.
I came up with a test of sorts: If I could set up basic
software and a firewall that can block outgoing processes
without having to resort to arcane command line tedium,
or editing files somewhere deep in /etc, then maybe Linux
was ready for prime time. So far Linux hasn't passed
my test.

Worse, from what I've seen it's been adding the
problems of commercial software. Last time I tried it
out (either Suse or Mandriva; I've forgotten which) they
were adding the same complications that Win7 added:
Admin isn't really admin. Root isn't really root. A whole
new level of expertise is required to circumvent the
new "features" intended to protect me from myself.
I had a very difficult time just picking the partition I
wanted to install to. The Linux installer was being as
parochial as the Windows installer. ("You said G drive
but you must have meant C drive. We'll go with C drive.
Thank you for flying Linux. Now please just sit back and
enjoy the flight.")

When Win7 came out I started looking into WINE,
thinking that if I had to give up XP then maybe it would
make sense to switch to Linux w/WINE. That seemed like
an interesting possibility. But as with most things Linux,
WINE is in a perpetual state of partial completion (going on
20 years now). It's developed by mostly young, male
geeks who want to play Windows games and impress their
peers with their programming skills. It might be quite
something if they had rendered WINE as a mirror API for
Windows programmers. Instead, it's more like a flimsy VM
that needs to be tweaked for individual programs. And as
usual for anything Linux, the docs are very limited. (One
even has to compile the help docs!) The system is not
intended for use by Windows programmers directly, which
creates a regettable bottleneck for WINE development.

With some work I can render Win7 as a reasonably
usable system, and it seems to be possible to fully block
Microsoft's Win7 spyware. It's a bloated, restrictive, spyware
mess that I prefer not to deal with, but it's not nearly bad
enough to make Linux look good.
Maybe Win8 is that bad. Hard to say. I don't have a lot
of hope for Linux anymore. And I just don't have much interest
in spending the time experimenting with it. I don't mind that
a system needs to be set up. But then I expect it to work.
I don't want to feel that I have to put on my repairman
suit every time I turn on my PC. To my mind there's just no
excuse for needing console windows and obscure, hidden
configuration files in a modern OS. As the AppleSeeds might
say, there should be "a UI for that".

| Note that nospam is a compulsive arguer who will
| argue about anything as long as someone will
| engage him, altering the topic as necessary in
| order to "win". He's responsible for threads going
| into the hundreds of posts on the photo group and
| is a fanatical Apple defender. I guess he got here
| via the android cross-post.
| Consider yourself warned.
|

| I just replied to a message he wrote. I guess I shouldn't have.
|

I enjoyed your post.

Mayayana wrote:
| What I tell my customers about the difference between
| tablets and laptops/desktops is that tablets are
| wonderful for receiving information but are horrible
| for inputting/creating information., If you are
| creating tings, you need a full computer.
|

That does seem to be the simplest, clearest way to
distinguish between them: creation vs consumption.

| By the way, if you are interested in Linux,
| you don't have to commit instantly. You
| can download a "Live CD" and boot off the
| CD (it really is a CD, not a DVD) and play
| with it before committing.

I looked into Linux in 1999, mostly out of curiosity.
After weeks of fiddling around I finally had a system
set up and pretty much knew how to do the basics.
It was fun. Then I realized the importance of software.
Linux had come with hundreds of half-baked programs
(like multiple, primitive email programs named after trees,
for instance) that constituted a sort of war memorial to
past Linux contributors. But the programs were nearly
all completely useless.

Over the years I've checked in on Linux occasionally.
I came up with a test of sorts: If I could set up basic
software and a firewall that can block outgoing processes
without having to resort to arcane command line tedium,
or editing files somewhere deep in /etc, then maybe Linux
was ready for prime time. So far Linux hasn't passed
my test.

Worse, from what I've seen it's been adding the
problems of commercial software. Last time I tried it
out (either Suse or Mandriva; I've forgotten which) they
were adding the same complications that Win7 added:
Admin isn't really admin. Root isn't really root. A whole
new level of expertise is required to circumvent the
new "features" intended to protect me from myself.
I had a very difficult time just picking the partition I
wanted to install to. The Linux installer was being as
parochial as the Windows installer. ("You said G drive
but you must have meant C drive. We'll go with C drive.
Thank you for flying Linux. Now please just sit back and
enjoy the flight.")

When Win7 came out I started looking into WINE,
thinking that if I had to give up XP then maybe it would
make sense to switch to Linux w/WINE. That seemed like
an interesting possibility. But as with most things Linux,
WINE is in a perpetual state of partial completion (going on
20 years now). It's developed by mostly young, male
geeks who want to play Windows games and impress their
peers with their programming skills. It might be quite
something if they had rendered WINE as a mirror API for
Windows programmers. Instead, it's more like a flimsy VM
that needs to be tweaked for individual programs. And as
usual for anything Linux, the docs are very limited. (One
even has to compile the help docs!) The system is not
intended for use by Windows programmers directly, which
creates a regettable bottleneck for WINE development.

With some work I can render Win7 as a reasonably
usable system, and it seems to be possible to fully block
Microsoft's Win7 spyware. It's a bloated, restrictive, spyware
mess that I prefer not to deal with, but it's not nearly bad
enough to make Linux look good.
Maybe Win8 is that bad. Hard to say. I don't have a lot
of hope for Linux anymore. And I just don't have much interest
in spending the time experimenting with it. I don't mind that
a system needs to be set up. But then I expect it to work.
I don't want to feel that I have to put on my repairman
suit every time I turn on my PC. To my mind there's just no
excuse for needing console windows and obscure, hidden
configuration files in a modern OS. As the AppleSeeds might
say, there should be "a UI for that".




Try Netrunner. It just works. The only thing you have to do is install
the video drivers and get the updates.

--
Blue