Tip: Heads up on M$ Office

On 11/5/19 7:49 PM, Ant wrote:
5) Try to find unwanted older Office versions? I did with 2007 from
local estate sales.

And there is always Flee Bay

On 05 Nov 2019, T wrote
(in article ):

On 11/5/19 5:59 PM, Wolffan wrote:
On 05 Nov 2019, T wrote
(in article ):

Hi All,

Office 2019 now only runs on Windows 10.

Incorrect. Office 2019 also runs on macOS, and iPadOS, and iOS, and Android.

https://products.office.com/en-US/of...m-requirements

Older versions of MS Office 2019 still work, and run on Windows 7, 8, and
8.1.


And those inglorious ass holes at M$ have discontinued any support/sales
for Office 2016.

Incorrect. They have killed sales, but there is still support

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...e/search/18412



Work arounds

1) install sh*tty Windows 10

Why? Office 2019 is running fine in my Win 7 VM.

I just spent two hours on the phone with everyone at M$. Office 2019 is
only supported on Windows 10. THEY WON'T
BUDGE and THEY WON'T EXCHANGE IT. They are ass holes.

That’s very interesting, as I have it running on Macs. And my iPad. And my
Win 7 VM. And I can and have got support for it on Macs and iOS, and, in
times past, on Win 7. Haven’t tried to get support for Office 2019 on Win 7
for at least a year, perhaps they’ve changed, but I got support for Office
2019 on Mac less than two weeks ago. The latest update arrived on 19 Oct.
They’re still pestering me to join their beta team. _Someone_ at Microsoft
thinks that Office 2019 is supported on something other than Win 10.


2019's installer is adamant about you upgrading to Windows
Nein, oops, Windows Ten.

Whatever you did, I'd love to know! I have a 2019
license that refused to install on a customer's Windows 7.
Maybe you should recheck your version number?

I installed Office 2019 into Win 7 VMs last year, as an update from Office
2016. I had no problems.


If yours really does run in 7, where did you get your ISO/IMG?

Microsoft, by way of the local community college. It’s Office 2019
University; they don’t want to admit that it still exists, you have to
drill pretty deep to find it, and you have to have a valid email from a
school which is a member of their program. (Office 2019 University is,
effectively, Office Pro. Please note that there’s also Office 365
University, which they also don’t want to admit exists but which they’d
rather you used than the stand-alone version.) The OS is the Education
version of Win 7, effectively Win 7 Enterprise, running in a VMWare VM; this
version of Win 7 is allergic to Hyper-V. Office 2019 University is, for us,
$100/seat; Office 365 University is $80/seat and good for four years, when it
turns into the Pro version and is then $150/year/seat. Thanks, I’ll keep
using the stand-alone version.


2) install the freaking Office 365 lease license

Absolutely no need to do that.

I do not care at all for 365. A leased license
that spies on you???

And you can install the standalone.



3) get a volume license with downgrade rights

No need for that, either

That is the only other way according to M$. And
they will not exchange me.

All I can say is to escalate it until you reach someone with sense.


4) install buggy Libre Office (get a good set of ear plug
for when the customer yells "I DON'T WANT TO LEARN
ANYTHING NEW!!!").

You need a better class of customer.

I specialize in low skill users. These are good people
to be cherished.

incorrect. There are numerous alternatives to MS Office and LibreOffice.
Examples:

https://www.wordperfect.com/en/
https://www.apple.com/iwork/
https://www.google.com/docs/about/
https://www.openoffice.org

further examples are detectable using the search engine of your choice.

They are completely locked in to M$O. I personally do not
care for it, but a lot of folks like it. I suffer buggy
Libre Office.

then you have a problem.

On 2019-11-06, T wrote:
I can't disagree with your there. The thing is, if they
knew what they were doing, they would not need me. And,
since they put food on my table, they are to be cherished.

Users don't need to be experts at systems and networking, just the basics
would do. Like how to navigate a directory tree, or just looking at and
having some understanding of what is on their screen instead of staring
and drooling. They will still need someone who has deeper knowledge to
do the heavy lifting.

M$ is playing hard ball trying to get their telemetry
they can sell. I explain to them that XP and 7 are
perfectly fine operating systems. M$ is doing their
damnedest to get them off of them and it is only going
to get more painful with time.

Although I install them for others (which is why I am here), I have not
used Microsoft products in over 20 years. The last version of Windows
I recall using on one of my own PCs was Windows 98. I've never used any
of the Microsoft Office products.

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On 2019-11-06, Char Jackson wrote:
Office 2003 --OK, getting a bit crazy there, but I know people who still
use it.

So do I. It works fine for them as long as they don't need to work with
documents created in newer versions. (The conversion addon from Microsoft
is old and doesn't always work well.)

I figured there would be old versions available on eBay and other sources
but you've got to be careful about bogus copies that won't activte. As I
recall, 2003 was the last version that didn't phone home.

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On 05 Nov 2019, Char Jackson wrote
(in ):

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 03:32:26 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
wrote:

On 2019-11-06, T wrote:
I specialize in low skill users. These are good people
to be cherished.
...
They are completely locked in to M$O. I personally do not
care for it, but a lot of folks like it. I suffer buggy
Libre Office.

Then explain to them the consequences of their intransigence. If they
insist on using only Microsoft Office then they either pay Microsoft in
perpetuity for Office 365 or install Windows 10 so they can run Office
2019. Those are their choices. That's what technology lock-in is all
about.

Office 365 and Office 2019 are indeed valid choices, but if they're running
an older Win OS they could also look at:
Office 2016
Office 2013
Office 2010
Office 2007
Office 2003 --OK, getting a bit crazy there, but I know people who still
use it.

Office 2003 will run on Win 7, it just won’t install. There are ways around
the installer, including installing it elsewhere and using something like
LapLink to move it.

I’d just use 2013 or 2016. There are those who still use 2003. There’s
one particular person around here who still runs Office 97. Really. I’ve
told him to not request support, that thing is literally older than some of
my interns.


I have little or no sympathy for people who want to use this technology
without bothering to understand any of it. (I've worked with people
who have used PCs for decades and still don't know what a file or
directory is and cannot even tell me where the file they lost was
located or what its name was.)

Hard to argue with that.

yep.

On 11/5/19 8:03 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
Although I install them for others (which is why I am here), I have not
used Microsoft products in over 20 years. The last version of Windows
I recall using on one of my own PCs was Windows 98. I've never used any
of the Microsoft Office products.

I stay away from M$ products as much as I can.
My base system is Fedora 31, which I absolutely
adore.

I have several M$ OS'es in virtual machines
for research purposed (updates turned off).
I am forced to have a VM of 7 to run Go To Assist.
I pound them over not supporting Linux, but
they are not budging.

The dirty, ugly secret here is, you and I may
care about what OS we are running, but the customer
does not (does not apply to MAC users). Most
of the time, 9 out of 10, when I ask what OS
they are running, they have no clue.

What the customer ONLY care about is if their
common applications run. Here is where Windows
shines. Until Linux surpasses them in common
apps, folks will stay on Windows.

Fedora 31 has now surpassed Windows in Gaming support.
That might bode well for the future.

On 11/5/19 7:58 PM, Wolffan wrote:
That’s very interesting, as I have it running on Macs

My suppliers still have Office 2016 for MAC for sale.
Just from Windows

On 2019-11-06, Wolffan wrote:
Office 2003 will run on Win 7, it just won’t install. There are ways around
the installer, including installing it elsewhere and using something like
LapLink to move it.

I've installed Office 2003 on Win7 and later with no complaints from the
installer.

I’d just use 2013 or 2016. There are those who still use 2003. There’s
one particular person around here who still runs Office 97. Really. I’ve
told him to not request support, that thing is literally older than some of
my interns.

I'm supporting someone running WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS, most recently
on a new Windows 10 PC. The user in question is one who has used PCs
practically since they became available and still knows nothing - only
able to work by rote, having to write down step-by-step instructions
for everything. Panic ensues if an icon gets moved to a different position
on the screen.

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On 05 Nov 2019, T wrote
(in article ):

On 11/5/19 5:59 PM, Wolffan wrote:
Office 2019 now only runs on Windows 10.

Incorrect. Office 2019 also runs on macOS, and iPadOS, and iOS, and Android.

Ya. You feel like converting them over? They are
awash with specialty software that requires Windows.

Oh, when I was redeem the key, I noticed that they
included the Linux logo along with the ones you
mentioned. Wine, I presume.

If they want to stick with Win 7, they’re going to have to pick one of:

1 pulling something special, such as using Laplink or equivalent, or getting
education versions

2 moving to a different office suite.

3 put Win 10 into a VM and run Office 2019 from the VM. If you lock the VM
down, neither Office nor Win 10 can send telemetry anywhere, which will make
them cranky.

If they merely don’t want to go to Win 10, get Macs/Linux, install one of
the competing packages and a VM with Win 7 and run the specialty software in
the VM. The main reason I have Win 7, and XP, in VMs is exactly to run
certain older Windows-only software. I have an ancient imagesetter which cost
$150,000 when new and whose software was designed for NT 4. It works with XP
but breaks in Win 7. We are _not_ buying a new imagesetter until this one
finally dies, and we can probably get a few more years out of it. Our last XP
machine finally died last month, but the imagesetter still works from a VM.
The idiots who designed the software had a hardware based DRM dongle which
attached to a parallel port; when was the last time you saw a parallel port
in the wild? Fortunately we cracked the DRM years ago, as the idiots went out
of business nearly a decade ago.

On 11/5/19 8:23 PM, Wolffan wrote:
On 05 Nov 2019, T wrote
(in article ):

On 11/5/19 5:59 PM, Wolffan wrote:
Office 2019 now only runs on Windows 10.

Incorrect. Office 2019 also runs on macOS, and iPadOS, and iOS, and Android.

Ya. You feel like converting them over? They are
awash with specialty software that requires Windows.

Oh, when I was redeem the key, I noticed that they
included the Linux logo along with the ones you
mentioned. Wine, I presume.

If they want to stick with Win 7, they’re going to have to pick one of:

1 pulling something special, such as using Laplink or equivalent, or getting
education versions

2 moving to a different office suite.

3 put Win 10 into a VM and run Office 2019 from the VM. If you lock the VM
down, neither Office nor Win 10 can send telemetry anywhere, which will make
them cranky.

If they merely don’t want to go to Win 10, get Macs/Linux, install one of
the competing packages and a VM with Win 7 and run the specialty software in
the VM. The main reason I have Win 7, and XP, in VMs is exactly to run
certain older Windows-only software. I have an ancient imagesetter which cost
$150,000 when new and whose software was designed for NT 4. It works with XP
but breaks in Win 7. We are _not_ buying a new imagesetter until this one
finally dies, and we can probably get a few more years out of it. Our last XP
machine finally died last month, but the imagesetter still works from a VM.
The idiots who designed the software had a hardware based DRM dongle which
attached to a parallel port; when was the last time you saw a parallel port
in the wild? Fortunately we cracked the DRM years ago, as the idiots went out
of business nearly a decade ago.


They have tons of specialty software that runs Windows. They
are going to eventually have to bit the bullet. There are
things I can do to calm 10 down. 10's updates are
a nightmare too. (I can turn them off.)

They just are not looking forward to running an inferior
version of Windows.

And NVMe drive goes a long way to calming 10 down. And
there is Open Shell and Shut Up 10

On 2019-11-06, T wrote:
The dirty, ugly secret here is, you and I may
care about what OS we are running, but the customer
does not (does not apply to MAC users). Most
of the time, 9 out of 10, when I ask what OS
they are running, they have no clue.

Indeed. They really have no idea of what the difference is between
Windows and Office, resulting in pretty humourous responses when
asked what version they have. ("I dunno, I think it is Microsoft
something or Windows 2013.")

What the customer ONLY care about is if their
common applications run. Here is where Windows
shines. Until Linux surpasses them in common
apps, folks will stay on Windows.

As long as I don't have to use it myself I'm fine.

I"m not really concerned about Linux for the masses. Most users are
being victimized in one way or another and they don't even know it.

--
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Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 11/5/19 8:37 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
Indeed. They really have no idea of what the difference is between
Windows and Office, resulting in pretty humourous responses when
asked what version they have. ("I dunno, I think it is Microsoft
something or Windows 2013.")

Do you remember Office XP and Windows XP?
Some tempers flared over that one!

In alt.windows7.general T wrote:
On 11/5/19 8:37 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
Indeed. They really have no idea of what the difference is between
Windows and Office, resulting in pretty humourous responses when
asked what version they have. ("I dunno, I think it is Microsoft
something or Windows 2013.")

Do you remember Office XP and Windows XP?
Some tempers flared over that one!

Was that Office 2002 with its new ribbon design?
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In alt.windows7.general T wrote:
On 11/5/19 7:50 PM, Ant wrote:
Define old farts. 40s?

Anyone older than me.

How old is that? :P


I personally am deciding whether I want
to be and a Toothless Old Fart or a Curmudgeon.
Both seem fun. Teeth are already falling out.

I lost a lot of teeth, and I just started my 40 decade.


Got to get the Cain shake thing down: YOU KIDS
GET OFF MY LAWN!!! I have a lawn?

Haha if you have a house. :P
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On 11/5/19 10:58 PM, Ant wrote:
Anyone older than me.
How old is that? :P

63