Tip: Heads up on M$ Office

In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

Earlier, I wrote!
I.e. they probably have things like smartphones which get updated/
changed/replaced/whatever every nanosecond or so, but they're
incapable of handling a change from Windows whatever to 101? I don't
think so!

Well, I can imagine that a switch to Windows 101 *would* be a tad
hard! :-)

not in base 3, it isn't

T wrote:

On 11/5/19 7:16 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

They are completely locked in to M$O. I personally do not
care for it, but a lot of folks like it. I suffer buggy
Libre Office.

If they are locked into Microsoft Office (their choice, not a
requirement), why aren't they also locked into an OS on which they've
locked into old versions of software?

1) they are cheap (most customers are).

2) they hate Windows 10 (I have only come across
one customer who likes it)

Do these same users also try to play CDs on an LP player? You don't
change the OS unless demanded by critical software required for your
business. Usually it's the other way around: you have critical and old
software that demands you stay on an old version of the OS.

Not a valid argument.

Windows 7 is a perfectly functional operating system.
Office 2019 will not install on it for one reason and
one reason only: M$ are ass holes. M$ is trying to
force folk on to Nein so they can sell their telemetry.

If those customers are locked into MS Office then they already have a
version of MS Office. What version of MS Office do they now have that
won't run under Windows 7?

Since they're already using an older version of MS Office than 2019,
there is no requirement to move to Windows 10. What features in MS
Office 2019 do these customers think they absolutely require for their
business?

[Re-added alt.comp.os.windows-10. Please don't strip groups from a
running thread/discussion.]

wrote:
On 6 Nov 2019 16:22:19 GMT, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

T wrote:

[About having to switch to Windows 10 because of Office 2019:]

They have tons of specialty software that runs Windows. They
are going to eventually have to bit the bullet. There are
things I can do to calm 10 down. 10's updates are
a nightmare too. (I can turn them off.)

They just are not looking forward to running an inferior
version of Windows.

And NVMe drive goes a long way to calming 10 down. And
there is Open Shell and Shut Up 10

(From this and earlier threads,) It looks to me (us?) that it's not so
much your customers who are unwilling to change, but you.

You've had over four years to prepare migration plans from Windows
whatever to Windows 10. Should be more than enough.

Don't get me wrong, for my *personal* (non-business) use, I don't like
Windows 10 very much either and hence still use 8.1, but holding on to
Windows 7 past its use-by date for (small) *business* purposes is just
plain unprofessional.

If it's really your customers who can't handle change, they should get
out of whatever business they're in.

(N.B. This obviously does not apply to any 'old farts' which use their
systems for private (non-business) use.)

There are still plenty of people in mega corporations using XP for
their POS and other industrial applications., If the job didn't
change, why change the software?

I know what "mega corporations" do, that's why I specifically said
"(small) *business* purposes". I.e. the OP/OP's context is one or a few
systems, not hundreds or thousands or even more.

As to "If the job didn't change, why change the software?": AFAICT,
this is about 1) using a newer (2019) version of Office on an existing
Windows 7 system or 2) adding (i.e. buying) Office (2019) to an existing
Windows 7 system, i.e. the job *did* change.

M$ has convinced a generation or two of customers that software just
wears out.

Thanks heavens that the 2003-era software which brings you this very
post, is not aware of that! :-)

Rene Lamontagne wrote:

T wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

How old are these customers of yours?

These three are in their forties.

Old farts are a challenge to configure for, but
fortunately, they are need are rather minor:
web and eMail and something to jot down a note on.
Oh and Solitaire.

Hearts. :-)

Ever played Zork I?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWQDccL0aXM

Wasn't until 1993 with the release of Return to Zork that added
graphics. The "Web" showed up a year or two later starting with Mosaic.
Ah, nostalgia. The good old days of PCs thankfully since far surpassed.

I think I was playing that back in 1982 after spending $2500 for an IBM
AT with a whopping 10MB hard disk and 640K system RAM with a full-length
1MB memory card that I had to populate with dozens of RAM chips into
sockets (that occasionally you had to reseat the chips due to thermal
expansion and contraction working them out), a green monochrome monitor
(maybe 13", or less), a 5.25" floppy drive, and a 101-key keyboard that
lasted far longer than anything afterward (think it was a Northgate).
That was 37 years ago, so T probably wasn't even born yet.

Yep, I'm an old fart. In contrast, T is a tyro.

T wrote:
On 11/6/19 12:40 AM, Chris wrote:
M$ is playing hard ball trying to get their telemetry
they can sell. I explain to them that XP and 7 are
perfectly fine operating systems.

You're wrong. In a business they are not "perfectly fine ". XP on network
is a serious vulnerability which leaves them open to malware and ransomware
attacks. 7 will be the same soon.


Hmmmm. That is FUD. 7 got broken into more than XP.
M$ security is a joke. You are much better off getting
a good antivirus.


*cough* wannacry *cough*

On 06/11/2019 19.35, Frank Slootweg wrote:
[Re-added alt.comp.os.windows-10. Please don't strip groups from a
running thread/discussion.]

wrote:
On 6 Nov 2019 16:22:19 GMT, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

T wrote:

[About having to switch to Windows 10 because of Office 2019:]

They have tons of specialty software that runs Windows. They
are going to eventually have to bit the bullet. There are
things I can do to calm 10 down. 10's updates are
a nightmare too. (I can turn them off.)

They just are not looking forward to running an inferior
version of Windows.

And NVMe drive goes a long way to calming 10 down. And
there is Open Shell and Shut Up 10

(From this and earlier threads,) It looks to me (us?) that it's not so
much your customers who are unwilling to change, but you.

You've had over four years to prepare migration plans from Windows
whatever to Windows 10. Should be more than enough.

Don't get me wrong, for my *personal* (non-business) use, I don't like
Windows 10 very much either and hence still use 8.1, but holding on to
Windows 7 past its use-by date for (small) *business* purposes is just
plain unprofessional.

If it's really your customers who can't handle change, they should get
out of whatever business they're in.

(N.B. This obviously does not apply to any 'old farts' which use their
systems for private (non-business) use.)

There are still plenty of people in mega corporations using XP for
their POS and other industrial applications., If the job didn't
change, why change the software?

Security.

It is not nice that an old machine gets infected by ransomware via a
hole that is patched in Win 10, and once there it infects or corrupts
other systems via network.

Damage can be many thousands or euros.

If there is some task that needs an ancient OS, better remove the
network access to that machine and remove the USB sockets.


--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 11/6/2019 11:36 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:

T wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

How old are these customers of yours?

These three are in their forties.

Old farts are a challenge to configure for, but
fortunately, they are need are rather minor:
web and eMail and something to jot down a note on.
Oh and Solitaire.

Hearts. :-)

Ever played Zork I?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWQDccL0aXM

Wasn't until 1993 with the release of Return to Zork that added
graphics. The "Web" showed up a year or two later starting with Mosaic.
Ah, nostalgia. The good old days of PCs thankfully since far surpassed.


I have hardly ever played any computer games, with three exceptions:
Zork I, Zork II, and Zork III, around 1985.

I tried "Return to Zork" when it came out. I hated it. I greatly
preferred the text-based Zork I, II, and II, which let me create my own
graphic images in my imagination. The images I created in my imagination
were much more realistic.

I've also played some some Chess and Go on the computer, but I don't
think of those as computer games. They are computer-based real games
that I knew very well before I ever saw a computer.


--
Ken

T wrote:

Hmmmm. That is FUD. 7 got broken into more than XP.
M$ security is a joke. You are much better off getting
a good antivirus.

Microsoft security has traditionally been poor compared to the
third-party alternatives, with one exception: Windows 10 Defender. There
might be one or two better ant-virus programs, but Defender is a good
one too.

As a matter of fact fact, most Microsoft utilities and application
programs are inferior to most of the third-party alternatives. Not
everyone will agree with my views on these, but I'll name just a couple
of examples that I feel strongly about: FireFox is better than Edge,
WordPerfect is better than Word; Quicken is better than Money (which
Microsoft no longer sells).

And regarding you statement "7 got broken into more than XP," yes, I
agree, but that should be no surprise. It's not so much that XP was more
resistant to malware; rather 7 was newer than XP, and as time passes,
malware writers get better at doing what they do.

--
Ken

In message , T writes:
On 11/6/19 12:32 AM, Chris wrote:
T wrote:
[]
Windows 7 is a perfectly functional operating system.
Only for two more months. It is 10 years old.

And functioning well. And there is a lot of them out
there still.
[]
It'd be interesting to know both numbers and proportions. I _suspect_ 7
is now where XP was - actually some time after XP officially ended; 7's
take-up was gradual, possibly even actually accelerated by the
appearance of 8.0.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I'm the oldest woman on primetime not baking cakes.
- Anne Robinson, RT 2015/8/15-21

On 06/11/2019 20.15, Ken Blake wrote:
Â*T wrote:

Hmmmm.Â* That is FUD.Â* 7 got broken into more than XP.
M$ security is a joke.Â* You are much better off getting
a good antivirus.

Microsoft security has traditionally been poor compared to the
third-party alternatives, with one exception: Windows 10 Defender. There
might be one or two better ant-virus programs, but Defender is a good
one too.

As a matter of fact fact, most Microsoft utilities and application
programs are inferior to most of the third-party alternatives. Not
everyone will agree with my views on these, but I'll name just a couple
of examples that I feel strongly about: FireFox is better than Edge,
WordPerfect is better than Word; Quicken is better than Money (which
Microsoft no longer sells).

They were good in the past at purchasing external utilities, or a
limited version of them. Since MsDOS times. For instance, they bought a
version of PCtools backup.


--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 11/6/2019 1:10 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 06/11/2019 20.15, Ken Blake wrote:
Â*T wrote:

Hmmmm.Â* That is FUD.Â* 7 got broken into more than XP.
M$ security is a joke.Â* You are much better off getting
a good antivirus.

Microsoft security has traditionally been poor compared to the
third-party alternatives, with one exception: Windows 10 Defender. There
might be one or two better ant-virus programs, but Defender is a good
one too.

As a matter of fact fact, most Microsoft utilities and application
programs are inferior to most of the third-party alternatives. Not
everyone will agree with my views on these, but I'll name just a couple
of examples that I feel strongly about: FireFox is better than Edge,
WordPerfect is better than Word; Quicken is better than Money (which
Microsoft no longer sells).

They were good in the past at purchasing external utilities, or a
limited version of them. Since MsDOS times. For instance, they bought a
version of PCtools backup.



They can't do too much of that. Undoubtedly they fear being cited for
monopolizng the market


--
Ken

On 06/11/2019 21.14, Ken Blake wrote:
On 11/6/2019 1:10 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 06/11/2019 20.15, Ken Blake wrote:
Â*T wrote:

Hmmmm.Â* That is FUD.Â* 7 got broken into more than XP.
M$ security is a joke.Â* You are much better off getting
a good antivirus.

Microsoft security has traditionally been poor compared to the
third-party alternatives, with one exception: Windows 10 Defender. There
might be one or two better ant-virus programs, but Defender is a good
one too.

As a matter of fact fact, most Microsoft utilities and application
programs are inferior to most of the third-party alternatives. Not
everyone will agree with my views on these, but I'll name just a couple
of examples that I feel strongly about: FireFox is better than Edge,
WordPerfect is better than Word; Quicken is better than Money (which
Microsoft no longer sells).

They were good in the past at purchasing external utilities, or a
limited version of them. Since MsDOS times. For instance, they bought a
version of PCtools backup.



They can't do too much of that. Undoubtedly they fear being cited for
monopolizng the market

I don't say buying the company, but buying (licensing) an application
they like.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

"Carlos E. R." wrote:

[Microsoft] were good in the past at purchasing external utilities, or
a limited version of them. Since MsDOS times. For instance, they
bought a version of PCtools backup.

PC Tools (Central Point) was acquired by Symantec in 1994 who then made
PC Tools disappear. Symantec didn't buy Central Point to include that
software in their own product line. They bought Central Point to get
rid of a competitor (to their own Norton Tools).

Symantec also bought Altiris which had free SVM (Software Virtualization
Machine) which let you install and run multiple versions of the same
program or programs that conflicted with each other. When a program was
disabled, it was invisible, so it no longer conflicted with other
software. Some software doesn't like multiple versions of it
concurrently installed or ran on the same host, but in QA you may need
to test your program under different environs. Some software conflicted
with other software, especially similarly functioned programs. You
could have Altiris automatically disable (hide) one program when you
loaded another known to conflict with the other. It was slick. It
competed with Symantec's SVM (available only as an enterprise product),
so Symantec bought them, claimed they would make it available, but
instead made it disappear. Got rid of another competitor.

Symantec acquired Delrina's Winfax. Guess what happened to that
software? Yep, it faded away, too. Remember PartitionMagic from
Powerquest? Yep, Symantec acquired Powerquest in 2003, so
PartitionMagic disappeared, too.

Uncharacteristic to Symantec, they acquired Peter Norton Computing in
1990 which continues today as the Norton product line. Because Norton
Tools was included, 4 years later they acquired and got rid of Central
Point to get rid of the highly successful but competing PC Tools.

Symantec also acquired Veritas, but there were so many corporate
customers of that enterprise backup software that Symantec create a
Veritas division. I contracted at Symantec/Veritas for a few years, but
left before they sold Veritas to Carlyle. As a contractor there, I grew
weary after every quarter of asking on Friday if I was supposed to show
up on Monday. Symantec was very flaky in their budgeting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ns_by_Symantec

On 06/11/2019 21.40, VanguardLH wrote:
"Carlos E. R." wrote:

[Microsoft] were good in the past at purchasing external utilities, or
a limited version of them. Since MsDOS times. For instance, they
bought a version of PCtools backup.

PC Tools (Central Point) was acquired by Symantec in 1994 who then made
PC Tools disappear. Symantec didn't buy Central Point to include that
software in their own product line. They bought Central Point to get
rid of a competitor (to their own Norton Tools).

Symantec also bought Altiris which had free SVM (Software Virtualization
Machine) which let you install and run multiple versions of the same
program or programs that conflicted with each other. When a program was
disabled, it was invisible, so it no longer conflicted with other
software. Some software doesn't like multiple versions of it
concurrently installed or ran on the same host, but in QA you may need
to test your program under different environs. Some software conflicted
with other software, especially similarly functioned programs. You
could have Altiris automatically disable (hide) one program when you
loaded another known to conflict with the other. It was slick. It
competed with Symantec's SVM (available only as an enterprise product),
so Symantec bought them, claimed they would make it available, but
instead made it disappear. Got rid of another competitor.

Symantec acquired Delrina's Winfax. Guess what happened to that
software? Yep, it faded away, too. Remember PartitionMagic from
Powerquest? Yep, Symantec acquired Powerquest in 2003, so
PartitionMagic disappeared, too.

Uncharacteristic to Symantec, they acquired Peter Norton Computing in
1990 which continues today as the Norton product line. Because Norton
Tools was included, 4 years later they acquired and got rid of Central
Point to get rid of the highly successful but competing PC Tools.


So that was it. I wondered.



--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

VanguardLH on Wed, 6 Nov 2019 12:36:06 -0600 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:

Ever played Zork I?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWQDccL0aXM

Wasn't until 1993 with the release of Return to Zork that added
graphics. The "Web" showed up a year or two later starting with Mosaic.
Ah, nostalgia. The good old days of PCs thankfully since far surpassed.

I think I was playing that back in 1982 after spending $2500 for an IBM
AT with a whopping 10MB hard disk

I ordered mine with the 20 meg HD. He didn't have one, so I
splurged for the huge 40 meg. Then "I don't know what I'll ever do
with that much disc space" now it is "I've got programs with data
files bigger tan that!".

and 640K system RAM with a full-length
1MB memory card that I had to populate with dozens of RAM chips into
sockets (that occasionally you had to reseat the chips due to thermal
expansion and contraction working them out), a green monochrome monitor

Ah yes, back when "standard" was black and white, and "color" was
amber or green.

(maybe 13", or less), a 5.25" floppy drive, and a 101-key keyboard that
lasted far longer than anything afterward (think it was a Northgate).

Noisy, weren't they?
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?