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#61
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I killed a mouse today
In article , Rene Lamontagne
wrote: Test of 3 types of new fresh cells with accurate volt meter Maxell AAA 4 cells Avg 1.592 volts no load Panasonic AA 4 cells Avg 1.602 volts no load Energizer AA lithium 2 cells 1.845 volts no load that's open circuit voltage, not nominal. you're actually confirming what i said. Yes open circuit, no load, average of this particular set of cells. will probably be different for any other group of cells depending on age and brand. the point is that ocv is higher than nominal. BTW I consider a single unit to be called a cell, Multiple units such as a 6 cell 12 volt unit to be called a battery' technically true, but in this case, it's a single cell battery. |
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#62
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I killed a mouse today
On 2019-11-03 3:19 p.m., nospam wrote:
In article , Rene Lamontagne wrote: The nominal voltage of a fresh (and good) AA battery is 1.65VDC. nope. alkaline is 1.5v, nicad/nimh is 1.2v and lithium is 1.7v. From my reading, it was when it got down to 1.4VDC that it was considered dead and when it posed a hazard to the device therafter due to leakage. also wrong. this is *Not wrong* it is wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_battery#Voltage The nominal voltage of a fresh alkaline cell as established by manufacturer standards is 1.5 V. The effective zero-load voltage of a non discharged alkaline battery, however, varies from 1.50 to 1.65 V nominal != open circuit Test of 3 types of new fresh cells with accurate volt meter Maxell AAA 4 cells Avg 1.592 volts no load Panasonic AA 4 cells Avg 1.602 volts no load Energizer AA lithium 2 cells 1.845 volts no load that's open circuit voltage, not nominal. you're actually confirming what i said. Yes open circuit, no load, average of this particular set of cells. will probably be different for any other group of cells depending on age and brand. BTW I consider a single unit to be called a cell, Multiple units such as a 6 cell 12 volt unit to be called a battery' Rene |
#63
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I killed a mouse today
In article , VanguardLH
wrote: VanguardLH wrote: The nominal voltage of a fresh (and good) AA battery is 1.65VDC. From .... Don't mix voltages for alkalines with rechargeables. A fresh alkaline will have a nominal voltage of 1.5VDC. that's more like it. NiMH, for example, will have 1.2VDC at full charge. Chemistry dictates the voltage. That's why some devices won't run with the wrong chemistry of battery. these days, just about every device will work with the various batteries that are available. some devices have a user setting for battery type due to the different voltages and discharge curves, for a more accurate battery indicator. https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webh...ID-77070B10-3A BF-4904-8FDA-558120F68F3E.html 1 Select Setup System AA Battery Type. 2 Select Alkaline, Lithium, Traditional NiMH, or Precharged NiMH. https://cdn.navigation-professionell...s/2016/01/garm in-oregon-settings-system-1.png |
#64
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I killed a mouse today
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
VanguardLH wrote: The nominal voltage of a fresh (and good) AA battery is 1.65VDC. From my reading, it was when it got down to 1.4VDC that it was considered dead and when it posed a hazard to the device therafter due to leakage. However, that also assumes the batteries have a nice home in which to get stored, like in the same environ in which you live. However, devices that suffer extremes of temperatures (hot summer, cold winter) should probably have their batteries replaced sooner, like a flashlight you leave out in the garage or store in a toolbox in your car. While I could measure every battery when checking if it is below voltage and needs to be replaced, well, I'm already putzing with the device, so why not just put in fresh batteries? Yeah, I'll probably replace batteries before they've gone dead, but I also don't want to go use a device to then find out the battery I saved some money by using it longer is now dead and I can't use the device. I could taking out the batteries to test their voltage and put them back in if okay, or I could at that time put in fresh batteries and those would have a longer life than the used ones I decided to keep reusing just because their voltage was okay at test time. The TV remote gets used everyday, so I'll know when its battery is getting weak. My point is you don't :-) This morning I looked at one TV remote, and the voltage was below 1.1 or 1.0, and the thing was working. I have rechargeable batteries on it, so the normal battery voltage is a bit above 1.2; 1.2 is way below a standard battery voltage of 1.5, so if I used normal batteries which as you say can be considered dead at 1.4, the device continues working happily way below 1.4 and there is no external clue. That was my original point :-) Don't mix voltages for alkalines with rechargeables. A fresh alkaline will have a nominal voltage of 1.5VDC. NiMH, for example, will have 1.2VDC at full charge. Chemistry dictates the voltage. That's why some devices won't run with the wrong chemistry of battery. Voltage per cell Lithium Iron Phosphate: 3.2V to 3.5V Lithium Ion/Polymer: 3.7V to 4.2V NiCad or NiMh: 1.2V Lead Acid: 2.1V (liquid), 2.2V (gel) Primary cell (carbon, alkaline) = 1.5V to 1.6V I spoke only about alkalines. For rechargeables, and only if I had to time to wait, I'd recharge them and then test if they were still usable. Rechargeables have a limited number of charge cycles with capacity waning over successive charge cycles. Plus, how you going to charge those rechargeables in a power outage when you need that flashlight? |
#65
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I killed a mouse today
On 2019-11-03 4:52 p.m., nospam wrote:
In article , Rene Lamontagne wrote: Test of 3 types of new fresh cells with accurate volt meter Maxell AAA 4 cells Avg 1.592 volts no load Panasonic AA 4 cells Avg 1.602 volts no load Energizer AA lithium 2 cells 1.845 volts no load that's open circuit voltage, not nominal. you're actually confirming what i said. Yes open circuit, no load, average of this particular set of cells. will probably be different for any other group of cells depending on age and brand. the point is that ocv is higher than nominal. BTW I consider a single unit to be called a cell, Multiple units such as a 6 cell 12 volt unit to be called a battery' technically true, but in this case, it's a single cell battery. Take your pick. :-) Alkaline battery (zinc manganese oxide, carbon) Aluminium–air battery Atomic battery Betavoltaics Optoelectric nuclear battery Nuclear micro-battery Bunsen cell Chromic acid cell (Poggendorff cell) Clark cell Daniell cell Dry cell Earth battery Frog battery Galvanic cell Grove cell Leclanché cell Lemon/potato battery Lithium battery Lithium air battery Magnesium battery Mercury battery Molten salt battery Nickel oxyhydroxide battery Oxyride battery Organic radical battery Paper battery Pulvermacher's chain Silver-oxide battery Solid-state battery Sugar battery Voltaic pile Penny battery Trough battery Water-activated battery Weston cell Zinc–air battery Zinc–carbon battery Zinc chloride battery Aluminium-ion battery Carbon Battery Single Carbon Battery[1] Dual carbon battery[2][3][4] Flow battery Vanadium redox battery Zinc–bromine battery Zinc–cerium battery Lead–acid battery Deep cycle battery VRLA battery AGM battery Gel battery Glass battery Lithium-ion battery Lithium ion lithium cobalt oxide battery (ICR) Lithium ion manganese oxide battery (IMR) Lithium ion polymer battery Lithium iron phosphate battery Lithium–sulfur battery Lithium–titanate battery Thin film lithium-ion battery Lithium ceramic battery [5] [6] Magnesium-ion battery Metal–air electrochemical cells Lithium air battery Aluminium–air battery Germanium air battery Calcium air battery Iron air battery Potassium-ion battery Silicon–air battery Zinc–air battery Tin air battery Sodium-air battery Beryllium air battery Molten salt battery Nickel–cadmium battery Nickel–cadmium battery vented cell type Nickel hydrogen battery Nickel–iron battery Nickel metal hydride battery Low self-discharge NiMH battery Nickel–zinc battery Organic radical battery Polymer-based battery Polysulfide bromide battery Potassium-ion battery Rechargeable alkaline battery Rechargeable fuel battery Sand battery Silicon air battery Silver-zinc battery Silver calcium battery Silver-cadmium battery Sodium-ion battery Sodium–sulfur battery Solid-state battery [7] Super iron battery UltraBattery Zinc ion battery Automotive battery Backup battery Battery (vacuum tube) Battery pack Battery room Battery storage power station Biobattery Button cell CMOS battery Common battery Commodity cell Electric vehicle battery Flow battery Home energy storage Inverter battery Lantern battery Nanobatteries Nanowire battery Local battery Polapulse battery Photoflash battery Reserve battery Smart battery system Watch battery Water-activated battery Wet cell Zamboni pile Rene |
#66
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I killed a mouse today
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
Weston cell Rene Now, that's a good one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_cell We had one of those in chem lab, but I don't think anyone ever measured the poor thing. It just sat there making a steady 1.018638 volts. There was a little card next to it, labeling it for studenten purposes. And then of course, you'd have to buy a $2000 DMM to measure it :-) (For all the extra digits nobody cares about.) The cell would feel insulted if the DMM reads 1.019 V. How do you know when you need a new one ? Nobody knows. Duracell doesn't make those. We never did discover who set ours up. It could have been "Weston himself". Judging by the amount of dust on it. Paul |
#67
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I killed a mouse today
In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote: The nominal voltage of a fresh (and good) AA battery is 1.65VDC. nope. alkaline is 1.5v, nicad/nimh is 1.2v and lithium is 1.7v. Wrong. Me, as professional in electronics, tell you that you are wrong. not wrong, and you even admitted as much in another post. In article , Carlos E.R. wrote: I have rechargeable batteries on it, so the normal battery voltage is a bit above 1.2; 1.2 is way below a standard battery voltage of 1.5, so if I used normal batteries which as you say can be considered dead at 1.4, the device continues working happily way below 1.4 and there is no external clue. Obviously you are confusing the actual voltage with negligible load, with the nominal voltage. i'm not the least bit confused, and explained that in another post. Nominal voltage is 1.5, yes. Actual voltage on open circuit or negligible load is about 1.6. the original claim was nominal voltage, not ocv. Don't talk vehemently about what you do not know enough. that applies to you. |
#68
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I killed a mouse today
On 03/11/2019 22.20, nospam wrote:
In article , Carlos E.R. wrote: The nominal voltage of a fresh (and good) AA battery is 1.65VDC. nope. alkaline is 1.5v, nicad/nimh is 1.2v and lithium is 1.7v. Wrong. Me, as professional in electronics, tell you that you are wrong. not wrong, and you even admitted as much in another post. In article , Carlos E.R. wrote: I have rechargeable batteries on it, so the normal battery voltage is a bit above 1.2; 1.2 is way below a standard battery voltage of 1.5, so if I used normal batteries which as you say can be considered dead at 1.4, the device continues working happily way below 1.4 and there is no external clue. Obviously you are confusing the actual voltage with negligible load, with the nominal voltage. Nominal voltage is 1.5, yes. Actual voltage on open circuit or negligible load is about 1.6. Don't talk vehemently about what you do not know enough. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#69
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I killed a mouse today
On 04/11/2019 01.50, VanguardLH wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote: VanguardLH wrote: The nominal voltage of a fresh (and good) AA battery is 1.65VDC. From my reading, it was when it got down to 1.4VDC that it was considered dead and when it posed a hazard to the device therafter due to leakage. However, that also assumes the batteries have a nice home in which to get stored, like in the same environ in which you live. However, devices that suffer extremes of temperatures (hot summer, cold winter) should probably have their batteries replaced sooner, like a flashlight you leave out in the garage or store in a toolbox in your car. While I could measure every battery when checking if it is below voltage and needs to be replaced, well, I'm already putzing with the device, so why not just put in fresh batteries? Yeah, I'll probably replace batteries before they've gone dead, but I also don't want to go use a device to then find out the battery I saved some money by using it longer is now dead and I can't use the device. I could taking out the batteries to test their voltage and put them back in if okay, or I could at that time put in fresh batteries and those would have a longer life than the used ones I decided to keep reusing just because their voltage was okay at test time. The TV remote gets used everyday, so I'll know when its battery is getting weak. My point is you don't :-) This morning I looked at one TV remote, and the voltage was below 1.1 or 1.0, and the thing was working. I have rechargeable batteries on it, so the normal battery voltage is a bit above 1.2; 1.2 is way below a standard battery voltage of 1.5, so if I used normal batteries which as you say can be considered dead at 1.4, the device continues working happily way below 1.4 and there is no external clue. That was my original point :-) Don't mix voltages for alkalines with rechargeables. A fresh alkaline will have a nominal voltage of 1.5VDC. NiMH, for example, will have 1.2VDC at full charge. Chemistry dictates the voltage. That's why some devices won't run with the wrong chemistry of battery. I know. Voltage per cell Lithium Iron Phosphate: 3.2V to 3.5V Lithium Ion/Polymer: 3.7V to 4.2V NiCad or NiMh: 1.2V Lead Acid: 2.1V (liquid), 2.2V (gel) Primary cell (carbon, alkaline) = 1.5V to 1.6V I spoke only about alkalines. For rechargeables, and only if I had to time to wait, I'd recharge them and then test if they were still usable. Rechargeables have a limited number of charge cycles with capacity waning over successive charge cycles. Plus, how you going to charge those rechargeables in a power outage when you need that flashlight? What I'm trying to point out, is that a device (TV remote) that is designed to work with standard and alcaline batteries with a nominal voltage of 1.5, but work fine with rechargeable batteries that have a nominal voltage of 1.2. Thus that device will also work fine with a very much spent alkaline battery that gives only 1.2, probably leaking. The device will not give any hint that the batteries are dead and should be replaced. About flash rechargeable torches, I routinely charge them periodically. The strategy has to be different. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#70
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I killed a mouse today
On 2019-11-04 3:33 a.m., Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote: Weston cell Rene Now, that's a good one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_cell We had one of those in chem lab, but I don't think anyone ever measured the poor thing. It just sat there making a steady 1.018638 volts. There was a little card next to it, labeling it for studenten purposes. And then of course, you'd have to buy a $2000 DMM to measure it :-) (For all the extra digits nobody cares about.) The cell would feel insulted if the DMM reads 1.019 V. How do you know when you need a new one ? Nobody knows. Duracell doesn't make those. We never did discover who set ours up. It could have been "Weston himself". Judging by the amount of dust on it. Â*Â* Paul Yep, that's what you call accurate. Back in the early 1950s when I started home studies courses in electronics I was required to build a VTVM with school supplied parts, O calibrate it I had to purchace a Mercury reference cell, Ouite expebsive at the time. It was roughly the size of a AA cell and was 1.35 volts and *not* to be used for any other purpose than to calibrate very high impedance VTVMs. Looking at the list I posted I was intrigued by the Zamboni pile which I could not equate with the famous Ice resurfacing machine of the same name until I read up on it, which led to the Oxford bells. Now, there you can talk about battery life with a meaning. :-) Rene |
#71
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I killed a mouse today
In article , Chris
wrote: Am constantly in fear that Logitech stop making them. I should buy a couple of spares to last the rest of my life. I do wish they still did a wired one that was a bit cheaper. They do them only wireless now? :-( Yes. Which is stupid as the mouse never moves. nor does the keyboard, but both benefit from being wireless. |
#72
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I killed a mouse today
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 01/11/2019 19.36, Chris wrote: Carlos E.R. wrote: On 01/11/2019 03.53, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 2019-10-31 7:30 p.m., Mike Easter wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: ... I use a trackball (Logitech marble track plus or something similar) and it does need periodic cleaning of fluff inside. It doesn't stop working, just that the ball itself moves jerkily. I have been using this same model since 1995. I just have two of them (they are not identical, bought on different years), both working. Same here. I'm on my second one as the original's left button microswitch failed a couple of years ago. After nearly 20 years of use. Am constantly in fear that Logitech stop making them. I should buy a couple of spares to last the rest of my life. I do wish they still did a wired one that was a bit cheaper. They do them only wireless now? :-( Yes. Which is stupid as the mouse never moves. |
#73
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I killed a mouse today
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 15:30:38 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
wrote: On 04/11/2019 01.50, VanguardLH wrote: I spoke only about alkalines. For rechargeables, and only if I had to time to wait, I'd recharge them and then test if they were still usable. Rechargeables have a limited number of charge cycles with capacity waning over successive charge cycles. Plus, how you going to charge those rechargeables in a power outage when you need that flashlight? What I'm trying to point out, is that a device (TV remote) that is designed to work with standard and alcaline batteries with a nominal voltage of 1.5, but work fine with rechargeable batteries that have a nominal voltage of 1.2. Thus that device will also work fine with a very much spent alkaline battery that gives only 1.2, probably leaking. The device will not give any hint that the batteries are dead and should be replaced. My Roku devices have the capability to measure the status of the batteries in the remote and display that on screen as a percentage. No idea how/if they differentiate between standard alkaline versus rechargeable, though. I assume the rechargeables would never show 100%. About flash rechargeable torches, I routinely charge them periodically. The strategy has to be different. Do they 'like' to be fully charged, or are they happier at something less than a full charge? I try not to charge things like that too often out of concern that a full charge is hard on it, but I could be completely wrong about that. |
#74
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I killed a mouse today
On 11/4/2019 9:36 AM, Chris wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote: On 01/11/2019 19.36, Chris wrote: Carlos E.R. wrote: On 01/11/2019 03.53, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 2019-10-31 7:30 p.m., Mike Easter wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: ... I use a trackball (Logitech marble track plus or something similar) and it does need periodic cleaning of fluff inside. It doesn't stop working, just that the ball itself moves jerkily. I have been using this same model since 1995. I just have two of them (they are not identical, bought on different years), both working. Same here. I'm on my second one as the original's left button microswitch failed a couple of years ago. After nearly 20 years of use. Am constantly in fear that Logitech stop making them. I should buy a couple of spares to last the rest of my life. I do wish they still did a wired one that was a bit cheaper. They do them only wireless now? :-( Yes. Which is stupid as the mouse never moves. I know I'm in the great minority, but I don't think that wireless is a great alternative even for a regular moveable mouse. There are two reasons why I'm against wireless mice: 1. It adds needless trouble and a needless (small) expense for batteries. 2. It makes it much more likely that the mouse gets knocked off the desk and smashed on the floor. Having said that, I'll add that I use a wireless mouse. Why? Because the mouse that I like so much only comes that way. -- Ken |
#75
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I killed a mouse today
Char Jackson wrote:
Do they 'like' to be fully charged, or are they happier at something less than a full charge? I try not to charge things like that too often out of concern that a full charge is hard on it, but I could be completely wrong about that. Rechargeables are still disposable batteries. They don't last forever. They're still chemical. They have a limited number of charge cycles (and even a partial charge counts). Didn't bother looking up NiCad or NiMH battery charging since I'm guessing you're using Lithium rechargeable batteries. Yes, not charging to full will increase the number of charging cycles for the battery. However, that also means less up-time when inuse, and that probably means more charging cycles. https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...ased_batteries I used to leave my smartphone plugged in all the time when it was at home. That meant there was numerous tiny recharge cycles. Batteries heat up during charging. The outgassing eventually made the battery pregnant. I would know until I went to replace the battery and took off the armor case to notice the bulge in the backplate. I'd have to replace the battery at about a year. Yes, with better handling the battery would survive longer, but then I'd be heading out the door with a partially charged battery which means less usage time during the day. So, my choice would be to charge only partially to keep the charge count up but have less up-time for when I wanted to use the phone, or buy another battery in a year. To have max charge for max up-time of the smartphone when away from home, I opted for buying another battery in a year. The $7/year cost was well worth having more up-time for the phone. Of course, that strategy only works for phones that have replaceable batteries, and why I don't by phones with sealed batteries (which can be replaced but not intended for such, and you may have to buy a seal kit after damaging the seal to open the phone). |
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