Is there a retail version of 64-bit Windows 8 Pro?

On 12/15/2012 2:43 PM, Robin Bignall wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 12:53:21 -0500,
wrote:

Don't confuse licensing with product activation....the latter necessary to ensure it continues to operate in full feature mode.

IF you change enough components then the need for activation will kick in requiring it to be done online or via phone with the
latter possibly involving a voice call with MSFT.

Lol...I don't make the rules but Ed Bott did a wonderful job or providing the different scenarios for the OEM built (e.g. Dell,
HP), upgrade, or full version Personal Use...anything that deviates from those possibilities while technically possible doesn't
change MSFT position.


The 'less inviting' comment was VanguardLH's , I missed snipping that comment.

'Full package product' only applies to the earlier full retail versions of earlier o/s (e.g. Win7 full retail with 32 and 64 bit
DVD)...those full package products are no longer available and are now replaced with the Personal Use Licenser for System Builder
versions which include a 32 ***or** 64 bit DVD but not both.

That is an annoyance if you have a 32-bit system, and eventually decide
to upgrade the system to 64-bit. Twice the price for (effectively) the
same OS.

Yes... well... true. But the same problem applies if you purchase an
upgrade key and use it for a few hours and then discover something wrong
that you can't live with it. So you go back to the previous version of
Windows. Now what happens with the key you just bought? Totally useless.

Previous versions of Windows since XP, allowed x amount of time before
you needed to activate it. Thus working like a trial version for x
amount of days. Windows 8 doesn't work this way. As the first time you
go online it automatically activates and now the key counts as being
used. And it doesn't matter if you after a few hours you reformat the
drive to get rid of it or not.

Microsoft hasn't been that bad before, but other third parties have.
This nonsense has started back in the late 80's and it is getting worse
and worse. And companies are so bold to offer you a money back guarantee
knowing full well they don't plan on giving you anything back. Because
they probably won't and it would cost you zillions to get so little back
fighting them in court.

So the best course of action is the Internet. And just to warn others
what can indeed happen. I don't think they will change, but at least we
can help some from being trapped. Microsoft is a late comer to this game
which is the good news. Sadly I think they are forced to for survival.

--
Bill
Dell Latitute Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8

Then purchase the Personal Use License System Builder 64 bit version from any available source (online, retail outlet, big box
store).

Upgrades are for existing operating systems (e.g. upgrade XP, Vista, Win7 to Windows 8) - upgrading an existing machine (as noted
in the Ed Bott article) replaces/nullifies the license of the prior o/s used to qualify for the upgrade.


--
....winston
msft mvp


"Yes" wrote in message ...

...winston wrote:

I don't see why this continues to confuse folks.

Upgrade:
- If you purchase and upgrade from MSFT you have the option to
download 32 or 64 bit at any time...the only catch is that you obtain
the desired bit-ness is to use a pc of the same bit-ness.
--snipped--

Yes, that is the gotcha I ran into. My existing system is 32-bit. I
want the next O/S I move to to be 64-bit. But Microsoft's upgrade path
is for like to like, NOT 32-bit to 64-bit. The upgrade path was
therefore not an option for my pc according to Microsoft site info.

Therefore I was looking for the 64-bit version in order to do a clean
install from scratch. Windows 8 (the standard version) does not
interest me. For technical reasons, I want some of the features that
Windows 8 Pro offers, but the enterprise edition would be overkill.
Given this, therefore, Windows 8 Pro 64-bit was the sole choice from
what Microsoft offers that otherwise met my criteria.

In the past full retail versions were available (at a higher cost, twice or more than twice than OEM full versions)...higher cost
because full retail included both 32/64 bit dvds whereas OEM versions included only one version 32 or 64 bit.

Now the only full version available is the Personal Use System Builder and like the past OEM full version available in 32 or 64 bit
variety but not both. I.e. in the past you either purchased 32 or 64 bit or both 32 and 64 bit OEM versions at a cost
significantly less than the previous full retail packaged product.

Thus if you were using OEM in the past you still bought two if you needed both (32 and 64 bit)....and you paid for two OEM versions
or about half as much for those two than you would have paid for one full retail box version that included both 32/64 bit DVDs.

i.e. you need to compare apples to apples.




--
....winston
msft mvp


"Robin Bignall" wrote in message ...

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 12:53:21 -0500, "..winston"
wrote:

Don't confuse licensing with product activation....the latter necessary to ensure it continues to operate in full feature mode.

IF you change enough components then the need for activation will kick in requiring it to be done online or via phone with the
latter possibly involving a voice call with MSFT.

Lol...I don't make the rules but Ed Bott did a wonderful job or providing the different scenarios for the OEM built (e.g. Dell,
HP), upgrade, or full version Personal Use...anything that deviates from those possibilities while technically possible doesn't
change MSFT position.


The 'less inviting' comment was VanguardLH's , I missed snipping that comment.

'Full package product' only applies to the earlier full retail versions of earlier o/s (e.g. Win7 full retail with 32 and 64 bit
DVD)...those full package products are no longer available and are now replaced with the Personal Use Licenser for System Builder
versions which include a 32 ***or** 64 bit DVD but not both.

That is an annoyance if you have a 32-bit system, and eventually decide
to upgrade the system to 64-bit. Twice the price for (effectively) the
same OS.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

...winston wrote:

Then purchase the Personal Use License System Builder 64 bit version
from any available source (online, retail outlet, big box store).

--snipped--

simple to say, but that advice ignores that, until I posed my question,
I had not run across any references in the material I read mentioning
"personal use license" nor is Microsoft's site the clearest at pointing
me to the area "personal use license" underneath "OEM Partner" That is
not an intuitive destintation point to which to look for info which you
and others have already pointed out that Microsoft changed terminology
and names.

So give me and the others a break who do not regularly keep up with the
current naming conventions. It is rather hard to consider buying
something if you don't know it exists or what search terms to use to
lead to discovering that nomenclature.

I do appreciate the help you've given, but you lose brownie points (if
you've run across that term because it is rather old) because your last
comment was rather snarky and condescending.

It wasn't meant to be snarky etc...
Based on the information you've provided, your options are limited for building a pc with a full version of Windows 8 since the
only full version product available is Personal Use System Builder versions in 32 or 64 bit varieties.

Mary Jo Foley has a decent article (and references the Ed Bott article on transfer rights) regarding the Personal Use System
Builder version and current entry level pricing (note that pricing may change after MSFT's upgrade promotion pricing period expires
on Jan 31, 2013).
http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-prici...-7-7000004361/

In the long run, if you wish to have the most flexibility for installation and activation with a system that may encounter/undergo
a dynamic hardware condition instead of a static hardware condition, then only one full version in 32 or 64 bit applies.

I'm confident, you'll arrive at the best decision for your needs.


--
....winston
msft mvp


"Yes" wrote in message ...

...winston wrote:

Then purchase the Personal Use License System Builder 64 bit version
from any available source (online, retail outlet, big box store).

--snipped--

simple to say, but that advice ignores that, until I posed my question,
I had not run across any references in the material I read mentioning
"personal use license" nor is Microsoft's site the clearest at pointing
me to the area "personal use license" underneath "OEM Partner" That is
not an intuitive destintation point to which to look for info which you
and others have already pointed out that Microsoft changed terminology
and names.

So give me and the others a break who do not regularly keep up with the
current naming conventions. It is rather hard to consider buying
something if you don't know it exists or what search terms to use to
lead to discovering that nomenclature.

I do appreciate the help you've given, but you lose brownie points (if
you've run across that term because it is rather old) because your last
comment was rather snarky and condescending.

"Ken Blake" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 11:17:47 -0500, "Steve"
wrote:

Windows 8 Professional System Builder DVD 64-Bit is available at Amazon
for
$139.99


Please see his original message, which said "I do not want an OEM
(System Builder) version."

And please do not use Windows Live Mail for posting in newsgroups. It
royally screws up quoting.




snip

Not if you use this
housetrained
--
* I promise I will format my posts properly in the future.
* Windows Live Mail just can't quote! Luckily, I have found this:
* http://www.dusko-lolic.from.hr/wlmquote/

On Sun, 16 Dec 2012 09:03:46 -0000, housetrained wrote:

* I promise I will format my posts properly in the future.
* Windows Live Mail just can't quote! Luckily, I have found this:
* http://www.dusko-lolic.from.hr/wlmquote/

Good link - thanks!

I suspect that when Microsoft sees poor sales of Windows 8 (like they
did with Vista) and refocus for Windows 9 that they'll probably realize
that discarding the retail license wasn't so smart, either. Well, one
can only hope.

"VanguardLH" wrote in message ...


suspect that when Microsoft sees poor sales of Windows 8 (like they
did with Vista) and refocus for Windows 9 that they'll probably realize
that discarding the retail license wasn't so smart, either. Well, one
can only hope.


Look at it the other way around...they discarded the OEM full version license and adopted the OEM packaging (one bitness per
package 32 or 64 bit) for the retail full version and rebranded it as Personal User License.

Why ? The OEM's pc manufacturers become the sole organizations responsible for supporting PC's with pre-installed OEM software.

All other versions receive the standard 90 day support from MSFT.
In fact, if you upgrade either a Win8 or Win8 Pro to Win8 Pro with Media Center Version you change the product key from any
installed version (upgrade, Personal Use, OEM pre-installed) to a retail version product key qualifying for 90 day support from
MSFT.

I have my doubts that any refocus on Win9 will impact the current full version packaging (Personal Use only - 32 or 64 bit per
package) or return to the previous full version packaging (2 DVD's 32 and 64 bit per package).

Hope ? More like a paradigm shift with a huge leap of faith on both sides of the fence (MSFT and consumer).

--
....winston
msft mvp

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:02:55 -0500, "..winston"
wrote:

Microsoft, unlike earlier version of Windows (7, Vista, XP) will not be providing a stand-alone retail version of Windows 8.

In the past MSFT provided full retail versions of their o/s and also an OEM System Builder version. With the advent of Windows 8.
- The full version retail and the OEM System Builder version is now one single package called Windows 8 Personal Use - System
Builder version (while web sites are marketing the version with an OEM tag, in MSFT speak the OEM term was dropped).

Thus if you wish a full retail version of Win8 64bit you do have to purchase the Personal Use System Builder 64 bit version.

Also unlike previous full retail versions (which included both 32/64bit DVD) and like previous OEM full versions the Personal Use
System Builder version only comes in one flavor - 32 bit or 64 bit but not both....thus ensure when purchasing the full Personal
Use System Builder version you choose the right flavor (32 bit or 64 bit).

Maybe I'm missing something but I bought what I assume is a Retail
Version of Windows 8 Pro from Amazon when it was first released and
the final cost was $20. The package itself does not have the word
"upgrade" anywhere on it but in small print on the disks it says
"upgrade eligibility rules apply" or something like that. It
includes both the 32 bit and 64 bit version disks. On the card with
the S/N it says "Not labeled for individual resale". So how did
Amazon sell it to individuals???? Both line in terms of the OPs
issue, couldn't they just buy what I did and also buy a copy of some
older version of windows and be legal and done with it?

In ,
VanguardLH typed:
I suspect that when Microsoft sees poor sales of Windows 8 (like they
did with Vista) and refocus for Windows 9 that they'll probably
realize that discarding the retail license wasn't so smart, either.
Well, one can only hope.

Actually Microsoft has sold 40 million Windows 8 licenses in one month.
That beats all previous records. So what makes you believe Windows 8
sales are poor?

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-weve-...te-7000007990/

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

On 12/21/2012 2:48 PM, BillW50 wrote:
In ,
VanguardLH typed:
I suspect that when Microsoft sees poor sales of Windows 8 (like they
did with Vista) and refocus for Windows 9 that they'll probably
realize that discarding the retail license wasn't so smart, either.
Well, one can only hope.

Actually Microsoft has sold 40 million Windows 8 licenses in one month.
That beats all previous records. So what makes you believe Windows 8
sales are poor?

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-weve-...te-7000007990/


Having computers sitting on the shelves of retailers doesn't count.
Windows 8 will join Vista and Me as a FLOP. The fact that YOU use it and
LIKE it is just further proof.

--
Alias

"Alias" wrote in message ...


Having computers sitting on the shelves of retailers doesn't
count. Windows 8 will join Vista and Me as a FLOP.

I'm not too sure that's the correct way to look at it. MSFT has always been patient with adoption of a new o/s especially when a
prior o/s ends it product lifecycle and extended support phase like XP in a little more than a year. Second, with the availability
of Win7 diminishing (since Win8 release) the ability to 'upgrade' from XP to Win7 diminishes on all fronts (PC Manufacturer,
Resellers-Big box/Internet, and third party resellers (e.g. Amazon, etc.). Third, downgrade rights to Win7 from Win8 are only
available for Win8 Pro with the end user responsible (not the OEM or System Builder) to provide Win7.

With the above anyone using XP (approx. 40% of the installed Windows user base) and MSFT or third party software doesn't have too
many choices going forward since it remains unlikely those same folks are ready, capable and willing to switch to other available
operating systems (Apple, Linux, etc.). MSFT, imo, would be very comfortable with XP (and Vista) users running either o/s (Win7
or Win8)....but if XP folks wait too long...their choice may confirm that patience and ultimately realize their only choice is
Win8.

Many folks (especially the XP/Vista crowd) may be better off with Win7 than Win8 for a variety of reasons (comfort, familiarity,
compatibility) but either route chosen, be it Win7 or Win8, in MSFT's eyes is still a sold license and quite different than the
Vista/ME pattern of the past.

--
....winston
msft mvp

How about a link on the Amazon site for what you purchased for $20.

Iirc, the $20 cost was
(a) a special offer for those who purchased a Win7 pc. A promo code was necessary to obtain the lower price upgrade.
(b) the cost after using or obtaining an existing Amazon credit.

--
....winston
msft mvp


"Ashton Crusher" wrote in message ...

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:02:55 -0500, "..winston"
wrote:

Microsoft, unlike earlier version of Windows (7, Vista, XP) will not be providing a stand-alone retail version of Windows 8.

In the past MSFT provided full retail versions of their o/s and also an OEM System Builder version. With the advent of Windows 8.
- The full version retail and the OEM System Builder version is now one single package called Windows 8 Personal Use - System
Builder version (while web sites are marketing the version with an OEM tag, in MSFT speak the OEM term was dropped).

Thus if you wish a full retail version of Win8 64bit you do have to purchase the Personal Use System Builder 64 bit version.

Also unlike previous full retail versions (which included both 32/64bit DVD) and like previous OEM full versions the Personal Use
System Builder version only comes in one flavor - 32 bit or 64 bit but not both....thus ensure when purchasing the full Personal
Use System Builder version you choose the right flavor (32 bit or 64 bit).

Maybe I'm missing something but I bought what I assume is a Retail
Version of Windows 8 Pro from Amazon when it was first released and
the final cost was $20. The package itself does not have the word
"upgrade" anywhere on it but in small print on the disks it says
"upgrade eligibility rules apply" or something like that. It
includes both the 32 bit and 64 bit version disks. On the card with
the S/N it says "Not labeled for individual resale". So how did
Amazon sell it to individuals???? Both line in terms of the OPs
issue, couldn't they just buy what I did and also buy a copy of some
older version of windows and be legal and done with it?

On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 20:16:09 -0500, "..winston"
wrote:

How about a link on the Amazon site for what you purchased for $20.

Iirc, the $20 cost was
(a) a special offer for those who purchased a Win7 pc. A promo code was necessary to obtain the lower price upgrade.
(b) the cost after using or obtaining an existing Amazon credit.


I'm pretty sure the promo is over. You paid $50 for it and got a $30
Amazon promotional credit. Now it's $50 and no promo credit. Still a
good price IMHO.

I read there was a $15 deal for people who bought a new machine with
Win7 preinstalled and could upgrade it to Win8 for the $15.