Odd network behaviour

I run a small in house network at home, usually only 3 pcs turned on.
One of them has a share setup that I store videos etc. in for a buddy
comes by and collects them onto a thumb drive.

Today I had about 16 avi files to copy onto that shared folder.
Proceeded as normal meaning I opened a windows for where the files were
and where I wanted a copy placed. Did the right click drag-n-drop and
choose Move. Sat back and watched it move three files and then dialog
box of transfer just disappeared without any error message or anything.

I could see two copies of the files being moved when/after it happened.
An incomplete copy on the shared folder and the original still in the
original folder. I reselected all and did the same right click but
choose Copy instead the second time. Everything went as expected.

Thing is, what happened the first attempt during the Move operation?
I've noticed the odd time before a bad copied file but this is the first
time I saw the transfer just abort without any message etc. Must you
always check before deleting the original just in case!!!

pjp wrote:

I run a small in house network at home, usually only 3 pcs turned on.
One of them has a share setup that I store videos etc. in for a buddy
comes by and collects them onto a thumb drive.

Today I had about 16 avi files to copy onto that shared folder.
Proceeded as normal meaning I opened a windows for where the files were
and where I wanted a copy placed. Did the right click drag-n-drop and
choose Move. Sat back and watched it move three files and then dialog
box of transfer just disappeared without any error message or anything.

I could see two copies of the files being moved when/after it happened.
An incomplete copy on the shared folder and the original still in the
original folder. I reselected all and did the same right click but
choose Copy instead the second time. Everything went as expected.

Thing is, what happened the first attempt during the Move operation?
I've noticed the odd time before a bad copied file but this is the first
time I saw the transfer just abort without any message etc. Must you
always check before deleting the original just in case!!!

Bad ram?
Computer clogged with dust and debris?

On 09/17/2017 11:09 AM, pjp wrote:

I run a small in house network at home, usually only 3 pcs turned on.
One of them has a share setup that I store videos etc. in for a buddy
comes by and collects them onto a thumb drive.

Today I had about 16 avi files to copy onto that shared folder.
Proceeded as normal meaning I opened a windows for where the files were
and where I wanted a copy placed. Did the right click drag-n-drop and
choose Move. Sat back and watched it move three files and then dialog
box of transfer just disappeared without any error message or anything.

I could see two copies of the files being moved when/after it happened.
An incomplete copy on the shared folder and the original still in the
original folder. I reselected all and did the same right click but
choose Copy instead the second time. Everything went as expected.

Thing is, what happened the first attempt during the Move operation?
I've noticed the odd time before a bad copied file but this is the first
time I saw the transfer just abort without any message etc. Must you
always check before deleting the original just in case!!!




Though I don't know why the connectivity was lost I can tell you that
it's better to copy than to move.

Once you confirm the copy is OK you can delete. If you simply "move" and
the process fails you can end up with data loss.

In article , says...

On 09/17/2017 11:09 AM, pjp wrote:

I run a small in house network at home, usually only 3 pcs turned on.
One of them has a share setup that I store videos etc. in for a buddy
comes by and collects them onto a thumb drive.

Today I had about 16 avi files to copy onto that shared folder.
Proceeded as normal meaning I opened a windows for where the files were
and where I wanted a copy placed. Did the right click drag-n-drop and
choose Move. Sat back and watched it move three files and then dialog
box of transfer just disappeared without any error message or anything.

I could see two copies of the files being moved when/after it happened.
An incomplete copy on the shared folder and the original still in the
original folder. I reselected all and did the same right click but
choose Copy instead the second time. Everything went as expected.

Thing is, what happened the first attempt during the Move operation?
I've noticed the odd time before a bad copied file but this is the first
time I saw the transfer just abort without any message etc. Must you
always check before deleting the original just in case!!!




Though I don't know why the connectivity was lost I can tell you that
it's better to copy than to move.

Once you confirm the copy is OK you can delete. If you simply "move" and
the process fails you can end up with data loss.

I'd already created a copy on 2nd hard disk in original pc so "Move"
screwing up wasn't a loss as still had a second copy of original. Almost
always do it that way.

Remember this happened while making a copy for a buddy, never do that
until I take care of my own backup needs

In article , s says...

pjp wrote:

I run a small in house network at home, usually only 3 pcs turned on.
One of them has a share setup that I store videos etc. in for a buddy
comes by and collects them onto a thumb drive.

Today I had about 16 avi files to copy onto that shared folder.
Proceeded as normal meaning I opened a windows for where the files were
and where I wanted a copy placed. Did the right click drag-n-drop and
choose Move. Sat back and watched it move three files and then dialog
box of transfer just disappeared without any error message or anything.

I could see two copies of the files being moved when/after it happened.
An incomplete copy on the shared folder and the original still in the
original folder. I reselected all and did the same right click but
choose Copy instead the second time. Everything went as expected.

Thing is, what happened the first attempt during the Move operation?
I've noticed the odd time before a bad copied file but this is the first
time I saw the transfer just abort without any message etc. Must you
always check before deleting the original just in case!!!

Bad ram?
Computer clogged with dust and debris?

Always a chance but unlikely as both pcs involved run 24/7 and there's
seldom any indication there's anything wrong. Only annoyance is the one
pc if acting as "Master Browser" seems to always eventually start
screwing up, reboot it solves that as "Master Browser" becomes one of
the other two pcs during bootup. I got tired of trying to figure out why
or fix it given error messages seem so universal when it happpens, e.g.
pcs stop being able to see all other pcs in Explorer yet direct IP
works, can only see pc to pc going "one way" etc. type issues.

In article ,
says...

I run a small in house network at home, usually only 3 pcs turned on.
One of them has a share setup that I store videos etc. in for a buddy
comes by and collects them onto a thumb drive.

Today I had about 16 avi files to copy onto that shared folder.
Proceeded as normal meaning I opened a windows for where the files were
and where I wanted a copy placed. Did the right click drag-n-drop and
choose Move. Sat back and watched it move three files and then dialog
box of transfer just disappeared without any error message or anything.

I could see two copies of the files being moved when/after it happened.
An incomplete copy on the shared folder and the original still in the
original folder. I reselected all and did the same right click but
choose Copy instead the second time. Everything went as expected.

Thing is, what happened the first attempt during the Move operation?
I've noticed the odd time before a bad copied file but this is the first
time I saw the transfer just abort without any message etc. Must you
always check before deleting the original just in case!!!

And can't find anything in Event Viewer?

pjp wrote:

I run a small in house network at home, usually only 3 pcs turned on.
One of them has a share setup that I store videos etc. in for a buddy
comes by and collects them onto a thumb drive.

Today I had about 16 avi files to copy onto that shared folder.
Proceeded as normal meaning I opened a windows for where the files were
and where I wanted a copy placed. Did the right click drag-n-drop and
choose Move. Sat back and watched it move three files and then dialog
box of transfer just disappeared without any error message or anything.

I could see two copies of the files being moved when/after it happened.
An incomplete copy on the shared folder and the original still in the
original folder. I reselected all and did the same right click but
choose Copy instead the second time. Everything went as expected.

Thing is, what happened the first attempt during the Move operation?
I've noticed the odd time before a bad copied file but this is the first
time I saw the transfer just abort without any message etc. Must you
always check before deleting the original just in case!!!

Disable the Recycle Bin (for that drive). When you Move, you also
Delete. Move = Copy + Delete. Deleting with the Recycle Bin is a
safety net that takes extra time. Instead of actually deleting the file
from the file system (removing its file record which is very quick), the
file gets moved into a holding folder (its file record gets updated
which is also quick). Entries in the Recycle Bin are removed in FILO
(first in, last out) order. That is, the oldest entries get deleted to
make room for a new entry. If deleting the oldest entry still does not
provide enough space in the quota for the Recycle Bin then the next
oldest file gets deleted, and the process repeats until enough quota in
the Recycle Bin gets freed up to allow moving in the new entry. All
this takes time and sometimes causes timeouts.

If you are going Move (Copy+Delete) or Delete a lot of files, or they
are really huge files, you might want to [temporarily] disable the
Recycle Bin to eliminate all that FILO activity. However, with just 16
files, timeouts shouldn't occur. The Recycle Bin adds a lot of extra
time when you delete hundreds or thousands of files. Each Delete is
performed separately, room is made in the Rcycle Bin, and then the next
deleted file is processed.

You sure the progress dialog didn't simply lose focus and was instead
hidden behind some other window? Try Alt+Tab to cycle through the
windows to see if the progress dialog shows up.

The 'copy' command-line program (internal to cmd.exe) or xcopy.exe have
their /v command-line switch, or you can use "verify on" within the
command shell (and ONLY within that command shell) to enable
verification on all file copying. Both appear to simply check source
and target filesizes and not do an actual compare. For that you need to
run "fc /b sourcefile targetfile" after the copy. There is no
verify option when using Windows Explorer to Move/Copy files. With
Windows Explorer, there is no compare of the copied file against the
source file. Verifying (comparing) takes time.

If you are simply putting a file in your local folder that you always
want copied to the shared folder, why not use FreeFileSync or SyncBack
Free? Both can do a compare after the copy to ensure the target matches
the source. You could define a mirror job that copies files added to a
source folder to the target folder. Then either run the job manually or
schedule the mirror job.

Did you retest with your anti-virus or any other anti-malware or
security software disabled? The AV has to interrogate all that traffic
and that takes time which can cause timeouts.

On 9/17/2017 3:52 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
Disable the Recycle Bin (for that drive). When you Move, you also
Delete. Move = Copy + Delete. Deleting with the Recycle Bin is a
safety net that takes extra time. Instead of actually deleting the file
from the file system (removing its file record which is very quick), the
file gets moved into a holding folder (its file record gets updated
which is also quick). Entries in the Recycle Bin are removed in FILO
(first in, last out) order. That is, the oldest entries get deleted to
make room for a new entry. If deleting the oldest entry still does not
provide enough space in the quota for the Recycle Bin then the next
oldest file gets deleted, and the process repeats until enough quota in
the Recycle Bin gets freed up to allow moving in the new entry. All
this takes time and sometimes causes timeouts.

How do I disable a recycle bin? I have two physical drives, each
divided into two partitions. Each partition has a recycle bin.

--
David E. Ross
http://www.rossde.com/

Yes, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and other
"founding fathers" owned slaves. However, they created
a nation. Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis, Thomas
"Stonewall" Jackson and other "heroes" of the
Confederacy tried to tear the nation apart. Statues
and other monuments to those "heroes" of the
Confederacy actually celebrate traitors and treason.

See my http://www.rossde.com/editorials/edtl_conf_flag.html.

On 18/09/2017 00:18, David E. Ross wrote:
On 9/17/2017 3:52 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
Disable the Recycle Bin (for that drive). When you Move, you also
Delete. Move = Copy + Delete. Deleting with the Recycle Bin is a
safety net that takes extra time. Instead of actually deleting the file
from the file system (removing its file record which is very quick), the
file gets moved into a holding folder (its file record gets updated
which is also quick). Entries in the Recycle Bin are removed in FILO
(first in, last out) order. That is, the oldest entries get deleted to
make room for a new entry. If deleting the oldest entry still does not
provide enough space in the quota for the Recycle Bin then the next
oldest file gets deleted, and the process repeats until enough quota in
the Recycle Bin gets freed up to allow moving in the new entry. All
this takes time and sometimes causes timeouts.

How do I disable a recycle bin? I have two physical drives, each
divided into two partitions. Each partition has a recycle bin.


Don't disable the recycle bin, it's a useful safety net.

Just empty it every now and then, perhaps after you make your weekly backup.

Anyway when you move files the deleted originals don't even go into the
recycle bin. The recycle bin normally only gets used when YOU ask
explorer to delete a file, programs and explorer moving files don't use it.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.

David E. Ross wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Disable the Recycle Bin (for that drive). When you Move, you also
Delete. Move = Copy + Delete. Deleting with the Recycle Bin is a
safety net that takes extra time. Instead of actually deleting the file
from the file system (removing its file record which is very quick), the
file gets moved into a holding folder (its file record gets updated
which is also quick). Entries in the Recycle Bin are removed in FILO
(first in, last out) order. That is, the oldest entries get deleted to
make room for a new entry. If deleting the oldest entry still does not
provide enough space in the quota for the Recycle Bin then the next
oldest file gets deleted, and the process repeats until enough quota in
the Recycle Bin gets freed up to allow moving in the new entry. All
this takes time and sometimes causes timeouts.

How do I disable a recycle bin? I have two physical drives, each
divided into two partitions. Each partition has a recycle bin.

From which drive are you deleting (after the move)? That's the Recycle
Bin you need to disable. Right-click on the Recycle Bin desktop icon
and select Properties from the context menu. Select the "Don't move"
option for whichever drive you don't want to use the Recycle Bin.

https://www.google.com/search?q=disa...22windows+7%22

Paul in Houston TX wrote:
pjp wrote:

I run a small in house network at home, usually only 3 pcs turned on.
One of them has a share setup that I store videos etc. in for a buddy
comes by and collects them onto a thumb drive.

Today I had about 16 avi files to copy onto that shared folder.
Proceeded as normal meaning I opened a windows for where the files were
and where I wanted a copy placed. Did the right click drag-n-drop and
choose Move. Sat back and watched it move three files and then dialog
box of transfer just disappeared without any error message or anything.

I could see two copies of the files being moved when/after it happened.
An incomplete copy on the shared folder and the original still in the
original folder. I reselected all and did the same right click but
choose Copy instead the second time. Everything went as expected.

Thing is, what happened the first attempt during the Move operation?
I've noticed the odd time before a bad copied file but this is the first
time I saw the transfer just abort without any message etc. Must you
always check before deleting the original just in case!!!

Bad ram?
Computer clogged with dust and debris?


The Bad ram thing, it took me forever to figure that one out :-(

I was getting the machine crashing and rebooting, after transferring
around 15GB of files.

It turned out there were some bad memory locations in an OS area.
Not an area the driver was using for storage, but somewhere else.
Where the OS loaded (or whatever loaded), would change from one
reboot to the next, causing different/worse symptoms.

It took me the longest while, to decide it wasn't malware,
and could it be bad RAM ? It was actually me casually running
the Windows Memory Tester (for fun), that showed an error.
And now it's fixed (with all-new RAM).

One of the other symptoms, was a call was made to shell32.dll,
to a non-existent ordinal. I thought for sure that was malware,
as calling a non-existent ordinal is potentially a side effect
of malware presence.

As a result of this, if a procedure on the computer terminates
with no status message, I'd be running the memory tester :-)
That's what finding a real root cause, does to you. Makes
a believer out of you.

Paul

pjp wrote:
I run a small in house network at home, usually only 3 pcs turned on.
One of them has a share setup that I store videos etc. in for a buddy
comes by and collects them onto a thumb drive.

Today I had about 16 avi files to copy onto that shared folder.
Proceeded as normal meaning I opened a windows for where the files were
and where I wanted a copy placed. Did the right click drag-n-drop and
choose Move. Sat back and watched it move three files and then dialog
box of transfer just disappeared without any error message or anything.

I could see two copies of the files being moved when/after it happened.
An incomplete copy on the shared folder and the original still in the
original folder. I reselected all and did the same right click but
choose Copy instead the second time. Everything went as expected.

Thing is, what happened the first attempt during the Move operation?
I've noticed the odd time before a bad copied file but this is the first
time I saw the transfer just abort without any message etc. Must you
always check before deleting the original just in case!!!

*Never ever* use Move

*Always* use Copy

It's safer to break the operation into two pieces.

And for cases where extra paranoia is involved, you have
the option of computing checksums on the source and destination
files, before deleting the source tree. Newer versions of 7ZIP
have a right-click entry for generating checksums or signatures.
A standalone tool would be hashdeep or md5deep, which can handle
a file tree for you. Those tools support multithreading,
but multithreading should only be used if your storage
device happens to be an SSD or an NVMe (zero seek time).
It's counterproductive to multithread with a hard drive
with those tools.

The fastest 7ZIP one, can compute a sum at 1500MB/sec.

Implementations of MD5 can manage 300MB/sec.

And SHA1 might be on the order of 100MB/sec.

Each of those options, trades speed for "potential for
signature collisions". MD5 is plenty good enough for
this purpose. You don't need SHA256 or whatever virustotal.com
uses this week for signature generation. A weaker check
is enough for a quick check.

Paul

In article , says...

pjp wrote:

I run a small in house network at home, usually only 3 pcs turned on.
One of them has a share setup that I store videos etc. in for a buddy
comes by and collects them onto a thumb drive.

Today I had about 16 avi files to copy onto that shared folder.
Proceeded as normal meaning I opened a windows for where the files were
and where I wanted a copy placed. Did the right click drag-n-drop and
choose Move. Sat back and watched it move three files and then dialog
box of transfer just disappeared without any error message or anything.

I could see two copies of the files being moved when/after it happened.
An incomplete copy on the shared folder and the original still in the
original folder. I reselected all and did the same right click but
choose Copy instead the second time. Everything went as expected.

Thing is, what happened the first attempt during the Move operation?
I've noticed the odd time before a bad copied file but this is the first
time I saw the transfer just abort without any message etc. Must you
always check before deleting the original just in case!!!

Disable the Recycle Bin (for that drive). When you Move, you also
Delete. Move = Copy + Delete. Deleting with the Recycle Bin is a
safety net that takes extra time. Instead of actually deleting the file
from the file system (removing its file record which is very quick), the
file gets moved into a holding folder (its file record gets updated
which is also quick). Entries in the Recycle Bin are removed in FILO
(first in, last out) order. That is, the oldest entries get deleted to
make room for a new entry. If deleting the oldest entry still does not
provide enough space in the quota for the Recycle Bin then the next
oldest file gets deleted, and the process repeats until enough quota in
the Recycle Bin gets freed up to allow moving in the new entry. All
this takes time and sometimes causes timeouts.

If you are going Move (Copy+Delete) or Delete a lot of files, or they
are really huge files, you might want to [temporarily] disable the
Recycle Bin to eliminate all that FILO activity. However, with just 16
files, timeouts shouldn't occur. The Recycle Bin adds a lot of extra
time when you delete hundreds or thousands of files. Each Delete is
performed separately, room is made in the Rcycle Bin, and then the next
deleted file is processed.

You sure the progress dialog didn't simply lose focus and was instead
hidden behind some other window? Try Alt+Tab to cycle through the
windows to see if the progress dialog shows up.

The 'copy' command-line program (internal to cmd.exe) or xcopy.exe have
their /v command-line switch, or you can use "verify on" within the

I thought I'd said, I watched it simply have dialog window disappear
with no message and no sign any more activity was going on. I was doing
nothing with the pc at the time, just watching it. It was like it
thought it had completed it's task.

Tried 2nd time with no issues.

In article , lid says...

pjp wrote:
I run a small in house network at home, usually only 3 pcs turned on.
One of them has a share setup that I store videos etc. in for a buddy
comes by and collects them onto a thumb drive.

Today I had about 16 avi files to copy onto that shared folder.
Proceeded as normal meaning I opened a windows for where the files were
and where I wanted a copy placed. Did the right click drag-n-drop and
choose Move. Sat back and watched it move three files and then dialog
box of transfer just disappeared without any error message or anything.

I could see two copies of the files being moved when/after it happened.
An incomplete copy on the shared folder and the original still in the
original folder. I reselected all and did the same right click but
choose Copy instead the second time. Everything went as expected.

Thing is, what happened the first attempt during the Move operation?
I've noticed the odd time before a bad copied file but this is the first
time I saw the transfer just abort without any message etc. Must you
always check before deleting the original just in case!!!

*Never ever* use Move

*Always* use Copy

It's safer to break the operation into two pieces.

And for cases where extra paranoia is involved, you have
the option of computing checksums on the source and destination
files, before deleting the source tree. Newer versions of 7ZIP
have a right-click entry for generating checksums or signatures.
A standalone tool would be hashdeep or md5deep, which can handle
a file tree for you. Those tools support multithreading,
but multithreading should only be used if your storage
device happens to be an SSD or an NVMe (zero seek time).
It's counterproductive to multithread with a hard drive
with those tools.

The fastest 7ZIP one, can compute a sum at 1500MB/sec.

Implementations of MD5 can manage 300MB/sec.

And SHA1 might be on the order of 100MB/sec.

Each of those options, trades speed for "potential for
signature collisions". MD5 is plenty good enough for
this purpose. You don't need SHA256 or whatever virustotal.com
uses this week for signature generation. A weaker check
is enough for a quick check.

TOO much bs to verify copied ok, Easier to just have buddy tell me later
he had some problem playing file and could I give him another copy. Less
time, no real stress so no brainer LOL. So long as my burned dvd copy
and external hard disk copy are ok ... LOL

pjp wrote:

I thought I'd said, I watched it simply have dialog window disappear
with no message and no sign any more activity was going on. I was doing
nothing with the pc at the time, just watching it. It was like it
thought it had completed it's task.

Tried 2nd time with no issues.

Sounds like there was a network connection hiccup so the transfer
aborted. There are network monitors but you'd want one with a log so
you could see if there was a network hiccup during the aborted file
transfer. Does this happen a lot? From your description, looks like it
was a one-time hiccup. Prior file transfers have worked.

Were the source and target hosts within the same intranet or across the
Internet? Anyone else using your network? Does anyone else have access
to the shared folder? Is it a private share or do you allow external
access? NetworkShareMonitor is a free and portable tool you can use to
watch your shared folders.

https://www.raymond.cc/blog/track-wh...shared-folder/
(other monitors are mentioned there)

Are the 3 hosts you mention in a wired (Ethernet) intranet across a
router but in the same subnet or are you using wifi and an AP (access
point) to put these hosts on the same subnet?