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#91
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WIA and hibernation again
William B. Lurie wrote:
William B. Lurie wrote: John John - MVP wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: John John - MVP wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: (snip) You can set all the services to Manual start if you want but I don't know if it will change anything, give it a try and find out. Keep these three services to Automatic start: Event Log Plug & Play Remote Procedure Call (RPC) Set all the other services to manual or disabled. After you do this try to hibernate the machine manually or in less than one hour (to make sure that it can actually hibernate with the minimal set of services). John Okay, John, will do....later. But for now, I'd like to report that my clone system is running, with clean boot, such that it does hibernate at 1 hour, giving no unexplainable event msgs or errors, and no sign of the dreaded ati2mtag or whatever it is. I followed above procedures, John, with eminent success (so far). Stripping down to just those few, it hibernated at two hours! Did it twice to make sure. So I changed the first ten to automatic and again, it hibernated at two hours. I did it twice to be sure. That is progress... So I changed the next 15 or so, and it did NOT go to 2 hours. And there is the clue to your problem. Keep notes of your changes and keep on narrowing things down. One of these 15 services prevented hibernation, keep on whittling the list down, cut out 8 of the 15 services and see if things change. If it does hibernate move on to the other 7 services, if it doesn't hibernate cut the 8 services list down to 4 and try it again... and so on until you pinpoint it down to the culprit. Here are the Events. Critical timing is that it started at 7:43, should have gone to 9:45, but things happened around 8:15, and desktop came on and I discontinued, to capture Events Monitor and pass them along. Perhaps you can interpret what they say, and tell me how to fix it, maybe by disabling some culprit......or do I search one suspect at a time until I find it? Got any clues? What is "Ci"? Event Type: Information Event Source: Ci Event Category: CI Service Event ID: 4103 Date: 4/6/2010 Time: 8:16:59 AM User: N/A Computer: COMPAQ-2006 Description: Master merge has completed on c:\system volume information\catalog.wci. That is caused by the Indexing Service. If you want you can read about the Master Merge in these search results: http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=...r2=sfp&iscqry= You can disable the Indexing Service and see if things change. I can go back and narrow it down, but it would be nice to go back to the state where it ran 2 hours, and add just whatever you think is the bad actor....... I don't know who the bad actor is, you will have to keep on with the trial and error and find that bad actor! Remember what I said earlier... "sometimes you need dogged determination to get to the bottom of some of these problems". John Right, John, I agree heartily. It will take some time, but I will go back to what was good (first batch of changes from base state) and start adding. Index will be the first that I re-enable after I get back to a good 2 hour run. The ball is in my court; I will crawl along toward what I hope will be a solution. Let us know what you find out! John Now 10 OM. I did as I said I would. Started with stripped, bare system. Hibernation 2 hours okay. I added Indexing *only*. It ran to 2 hours and hibernated perfectly. No significant entries into events log. In a way this was good news......and in another way, bad news. Obvious next step. Keep Indexing Automatic along with your 3 basic automatics, and start adding one at a time, the stuff that ended up, in combination, causing the malfunction. Tedious......actually tedious squared, or tedious factorial, I'm not sure which. Your comments welcome, John, but the course seems pretty obvious. Follow-on next morning. I stretched too far. In addition to 5 basic plus Indexing, I added five more, and it blew again. And it isn't trivial to diagnose why, from the Log. Back to adding just one at a time. More later. So the plot thickens. I went back to what worked, and re-activated just one service, DCOM. It now refused to hibernate, and the event log showed Service Control Manager error. I can go back and repeat the steps if you feel it's not reasonable, John. But Now we are led from DCOM (which is meaningless to me) to Service Control Manager, equally meaningless, and I don't know if I need it in my running system, or if I can safely leave it Manual (or Disabled) and go on with the next service. Next step will be to make DCOM Manual again and wait for advice. |
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#92
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WIA and hibernation again
William B. Lurie wrote:
William B. Lurie wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: John John - MVP wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: John John - MVP wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: (snip) You can set all the services to Manual start if you want but I don't know if it will change anything, give it a try and find out. Keep these three services to Automatic start: Event Log Plug & Play Remote Procedure Call (RPC) Set all the other services to manual or disabled. After you do this try to hibernate the machine manually or in less than one hour (to make sure that it can actually hibernate with the minimal set of services). John Okay, John, will do....later. But for now, I'd like to report that my clone system is running, with clean boot, such that it does hibernate at 1 hour, giving no unexplainable event msgs or errors, and no sign of the dreaded ati2mtag or whatever it is. I followed above procedures, John, with eminent success (so far). Stripping down to just those few, it hibernated at two hours! Did it twice to make sure. So I changed the first ten to automatic and again, it hibernated at two hours. I did it twice to be sure. That is progress... So I changed the next 15 or so, and it did NOT go to 2 hours. And there is the clue to your problem. Keep notes of your changes and keep on narrowing things down. One of these 15 services prevented hibernation, keep on whittling the list down, cut out 8 of the 15 services and see if things change. If it does hibernate move on to the other 7 services, if it doesn't hibernate cut the 8 services list down to 4 and try it again... and so on until you pinpoint it down to the culprit. Here are the Events. Critical timing is that it started at 7:43, should have gone to 9:45, but things happened around 8:15, and desktop came on and I discontinued, to capture Events Monitor and pass them along. Perhaps you can interpret what they say, and tell me how to fix it, maybe by disabling some culprit......or do I search one suspect at a time until I find it? Got any clues? What is "Ci"? Event Type: Information Event Source: Ci Event Category: CI Service Event ID: 4103 Date: 4/6/2010 Time: 8:16:59 AM User: N/A Computer: COMPAQ-2006 Description: Master merge has completed on c:\system volume information\catalog.wci. That is caused by the Indexing Service. If you want you can read about the Master Merge in these search results: http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=...r2=sfp&iscqry= You can disable the Indexing Service and see if things change. I can go back and narrow it down, but it would be nice to go back to the state where it ran 2 hours, and add just whatever you think is the bad actor....... I don't know who the bad actor is, you will have to keep on with the trial and error and find that bad actor! Remember what I said earlier... "sometimes you need dogged determination to get to the bottom of some of these problems". John Right, John, I agree heartily. It will take some time, but I will go back to what was good (first batch of changes from base state) and start adding. Index will be the first that I re-enable after I get back to a good 2 hour run. The ball is in my court; I will crawl along toward what I hope will be a solution. Let us know what you find out! John Now 10 OM. I did as I said I would. Started with stripped, bare system. Hibernation 2 hours okay. I added Indexing *only*. It ran to 2 hours and hibernated perfectly. No significant entries into events log. In a way this was good news......and in another way, bad news. Obvious next step. Keep Indexing Automatic along with your 3 basic automatics, and start adding one at a time, the stuff that ended up, in combination, causing the malfunction. Tedious......actually tedious squared, or tedious factorial, I'm not sure which. Your comments welcome, John, but the course seems pretty obvious. Follow-on next morning. I stretched too far. In addition to 5 basic plus Indexing, I added five more, and it blew again. And it isn't trivial to diagnose why, from the Log. Back to adding just one at a time. More later. So the plot thickens. I went back to what worked, and re-activated just one service, DCOM. It now refused to hibernate, and the event log showed Service Control Manager error. I can go back and repeat the steps if you feel it's not reasonable, John. But Now we are led from DCOM (which is meaningless to me) to Service Control Manager, equally meaningless, and I don't know if I need it in my running system, or if I can safely leave it Manual (or Disabled) and go on with the next service. Next step will be to make DCOM Manual again and wait for advice. I don't think that DCOM in itself is responsible, more likely it's another application than is using DCOM that would be at fault. On a production machine this service needs to be set to Automatic Start. What errors are you seeing in the Event Log? For your trouble shooting purposes you could leave DCOM to manual for the time being and keep on with your other necessary services and see what happens. John |
#93
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WIA and hibernation again
FYI--DCOM is set to automatic on my system and started. And I have no
problems with hibernate. I think you are correct when you state something else interfacing/using DCOM is the fault. My guess-----Norton simply because of its notoriety. . "John John - MVP" wrote in message ... William B. Lurie wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: John John - MVP wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: John John - MVP wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: (snip) You can set all the services to Manual start if you want but I don't know if it will change anything, give it a try and find out. Keep these three services to Automatic start: Event Log Plug & Play Remote Procedure Call (RPC) Set all the other services to manual or disabled. After you do this try to hibernate the machine manually or in less than one hour (to make sure that it can actually hibernate with the minimal set of services). John Okay, John, will do....later. But for now, I'd like to report that my clone system is running, with clean boot, such that it does hibernate at 1 hour, giving no unexplainable event msgs or errors, and no sign of the dreaded ati2mtag or whatever it is. I followed above procedures, John, with eminent success (so far). Stripping down to just those few, it hibernated at two hours! Did it twice to make sure. So I changed the first ten to automatic and again, it hibernated at two hours. I did it twice to be sure. That is progress... So I changed the next 15 or so, and it did NOT go to 2 hours. And there is the clue to your problem. Keep notes of your changes and keep on narrowing things down. One of these 15 services prevented hibernation, keep on whittling the list down, cut out 8 of the 15 services and see if things change. If it does hibernate move on to the other 7 services, if it doesn't hibernate cut the 8 services list down to 4 and try it again... and so on until you pinpoint it down to the culprit. Here are the Events. Critical timing is that it started at 7:43, should have gone to 9:45, but things happened around 8:15, and desktop came on and I discontinued, to capture Events Monitor and pass them along. Perhaps you can interpret what they say, and tell me how to fix it, maybe by disabling some culprit......or do I search one suspect at a time until I find it? Got any clues? What is "Ci"? Event Type: Information Event Source: Ci Event Category: CI Service Event ID: 4103 Date: 4/6/2010 Time: 8:16:59 AM User: N/A Computer: COMPAQ-2006 Description: Master merge has completed on c:\system volume information\catalog.wci. That is caused by the Indexing Service. If you want you can read about the Master Merge in these search results: http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=...r2=sfp&iscqry= You can disable the Indexing Service and see if things change. I can go back and narrow it down, but it would be nice to go back to the state where it ran 2 hours, and add just whatever you think is the bad actor....... I don't know who the bad actor is, you will have to keep on with the trial and error and find that bad actor! Remember what I said earlier... "sometimes you need dogged determination to get to the bottom of some of these problems". John Right, John, I agree heartily. It will take some time, but I will go back to what was good (first batch of changes from base state) and start adding. Index will be the first that I re-enable after I get back to a good 2 hour run. The ball is in my court; I will crawl along toward what I hope will be a solution. Let us know what you find out! John Now 10 OM. I did as I said I would. Started with stripped, bare system. Hibernation 2 hours okay. I added Indexing *only*. It ran to 2 hours and hibernated perfectly. No significant entries into events log. In a way this was good news......and in another way, bad news. Obvious next step. Keep Indexing Automatic along with your 3 basic automatics, and start adding one at a time, the stuff that ended up, in combination, causing the malfunction. Tedious......actually tedious squared, or tedious factorial, I'm not sure which. Your comments welcome, John, but the course seems pretty obvious. Follow-on next morning. I stretched too far. In addition to 5 basic plus Indexing, I added five more, and it blew again. And it isn't trivial to diagnose why, from the Log. Back to adding just one at a time. More later. So the plot thickens. I went back to what worked, and re-activated just one service, DCOM. It now refused to hibernate, and the event log showed Service Control Manager error. I can go back and repeat the steps if you feel it's not reasonable, John. But Now we are led from DCOM (which is meaningless to me) to Service Control Manager, equally meaningless, and I don't know if I need it in my running system, or if I can safely leave it Manual (or Disabled) and go on with the next service. Next step will be to make DCOM Manual again and wait for advice. I don't think that DCOM in itself is responsible, more likely it's another application than is using DCOM that would be at fault. On a production machine this service needs to be set to Automatic Start. What errors are you seeing in the Event Log? For your trouble shooting purposes you could leave DCOM to manual for the time being and keep on with your other necessary services and see what happens. John |
#94
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WIA and hibernation again
My guess too, (Norton), and I've had it as a suspect from the very
beginning. John Unknown wrote: FYI--DCOM is set to automatic on my system and started. And I have no problems with hibernate. I think you are correct when you state something else interfacing/using DCOM is the fault. My guess-----Norton simply because of its notoriety. . "John John - MVP" wrote in message ... William B. Lurie wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: John John - MVP wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: John John - MVP wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: (snip) You can set all the services to Manual start if you want but I don't know if it will change anything, give it a try and find out. Keep these three services to Automatic start: Event Log Plug & Play Remote Procedure Call (RPC) Set all the other services to manual or disabled. After you do this try to hibernate the machine manually or in less than one hour (to make sure that it can actually hibernate with the minimal set of services). John Okay, John, will do....later. But for now, I'd like to report that my clone system is running, with clean boot, such that it does hibernate at 1 hour, giving no unexplainable event msgs or errors, and no sign of the dreaded ati2mtag or whatever it is. I followed above procedures, John, with eminent success (so far). Stripping down to just those few, it hibernated at two hours! Did it twice to make sure. So I changed the first ten to automatic and again, it hibernated at two hours. I did it twice to be sure. That is progress... So I changed the next 15 or so, and it did NOT go to 2 hours. And there is the clue to your problem. Keep notes of your changes and keep on narrowing things down. One of these 15 services prevented hibernation, keep on whittling the list down, cut out 8 of the 15 services and see if things change. If it does hibernate move on to the other 7 services, if it doesn't hibernate cut the 8 services list down to 4 and try it again... and so on until you pinpoint it down to the culprit. Here are the Events. Critical timing is that it started at 7:43, should have gone to 9:45, but things happened around 8:15, and desktop came on and I discontinued, to capture Events Monitor and pass them along. Perhaps you can interpret what they say, and tell me how to fix it, maybe by disabling some culprit......or do I search one suspect at a time until I find it? Got any clues? What is "Ci"? Event Type: Information Event Source: Ci Event Category: CI Service Event ID: 4103 Date: 4/6/2010 Time: 8:16:59 AM User: N/A Computer: COMPAQ-2006 Description: Master merge has completed on c:\system volume information\catalog.wci. That is caused by the Indexing Service. If you want you can read about the Master Merge in these search results: http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=...r2=sfp&iscqry= You can disable the Indexing Service and see if things change. I can go back and narrow it down, but it would be nice to go back to the state where it ran 2 hours, and add just whatever you think is the bad actor....... I don't know who the bad actor is, you will have to keep on with the trial and error and find that bad actor! Remember what I said earlier... "sometimes you need dogged determination to get to the bottom of some of these problems". John Right, John, I agree heartily. It will take some time, but I will go back to what was good (first batch of changes from base state) and start adding. Index will be the first that I re-enable after I get back to a good 2 hour run. The ball is in my court; I will crawl along toward what I hope will be a solution. Let us know what you find out! John Now 10 OM. I did as I said I would. Started with stripped, bare system. Hibernation 2 hours okay. I added Indexing *only*. It ran to 2 hours and hibernated perfectly. No significant entries into events log. In a way this was good news......and in another way, bad news. Obvious next step. Keep Indexing Automatic along with your 3 basic automatics, and start adding one at a time, the stuff that ended up, in combination, causing the malfunction. Tedious......actually tedious squared, or tedious factorial, I'm not sure which. Your comments welcome, John, but the course seems pretty obvious. Follow-on next morning. I stretched too far. In addition to 5 basic plus Indexing, I added five more, and it blew again. And it isn't trivial to diagnose why, from the Log. Back to adding just one at a time. More later. So the plot thickens. I went back to what worked, and re-activated just one service, DCOM. It now refused to hibernate, and the event log showed Service Control Manager error. I can go back and repeat the steps if you feel it's not reasonable, John. But Now we are led from DCOM (which is meaningless to me) to Service Control Manager, equally meaningless, and I don't know if I need it in my running system, or if I can safely leave it Manual (or Disabled) and go on with the next service. Next step will be to make DCOM Manual again and wait for advice. I don't think that DCOM in itself is responsible, more likely it's another application than is using DCOM that would be at fault. On a production machine this service needs to be set to Automatic Start. What errors are you seeing in the Event Log? For your trouble shooting purposes you could leave DCOM to manual for the time being and keep on with your other necessary services and see what happens. John |
#95
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WIA and hibernation again
UNk and JJ:
Excuse me, but have I not been testing with all Norton software not even loaded? Much less in service.... Everybody always suspects Norton, but how can they be guilty in this case? What can I do to guarantee that they are completely out of the picture? Am I missing something here? My ground rules are Clean Boot every time, load no more than it takes to make the system run so that I can add services (and eventually applications) and have a system that turns itself off as it should after 2 hours of being idle. Okay, John, I'm back to where the first batch of services is on automatic, DCOM is manual and hibernate is okay. I'll leave DCOM on manual, and see what running the next listed service on automatic tells us. John John - MVP wrote: My guess too, (Norton), and I've had it as a suspect from the very beginning. John Unknown wrote: FYI--DCOM is set to automatic on my system and started. And I have no problems with hibernate. I think you are correct when you state something else interfacing/using DCOM is the fault. My guess-----Norton simply because of its notoriety. . "John John - MVP" wrote in message ... William B. Lurie wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: John John - MVP wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: John John - MVP wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: (snip) You can set all the services to Manual start if you want but I don't know if it will change anything, give it a try and find out. Keep these three services to Automatic start: Event Log Plug & Play Remote Procedure Call (RPC) Set all the other services to manual or disabled. After you do this try to hibernate the machine manually or in less than one hour (to make sure that it can actually hibernate with the minimal set of services). John Okay, John, will do....later. But for now, I'd like to report that my clone system is running, with clean boot, such that it does hibernate at 1 hour, giving no unexplainable event msgs or errors, and no sign of the dreaded ati2mtag or whatever it is. I followed above procedures, John, with eminent success (so far). Stripping down to just those few, it hibernated at two hours! Did it twice to make sure. So I changed the first ten to automatic and again, it hibernated at two hours. I did it twice to be sure. That is progress... So I changed the next 15 or so, and it did NOT go to 2 hours. And there is the clue to your problem. Keep notes of your changes and keep on narrowing things down. One of these 15 services prevented hibernation, keep on whittling the list down, cut out 8 of the 15 services and see if things change. If it does hibernate move on to the other 7 services, if it doesn't hibernate cut the 8 services list down to 4 and try it again... and so on until you pinpoint it down to the culprit. Here are the Events. Critical timing is that it started at 7:43, should have gone to 9:45, but things happened around 8:15, and desktop came on and I discontinued, to capture Events Monitor and pass them along. Perhaps you can interpret what they say, and tell me how to fix it, maybe by disabling some culprit......or do I search one suspect at a time until I find it? Got any clues? What is "Ci"? Event Type: Information Event Source: Ci Event Category: CI Service Event ID: 4103 Date: 4/6/2010 Time: 8:16:59 AM User: N/A Computer: COMPAQ-2006 Description: Master merge has completed on c:\system volume information\catalog.wci. That is caused by the Indexing Service. If you want you can read about the Master Merge in these search results: http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=...r2=sfp&iscqry= You can disable the Indexing Service and see if things change. I can go back and narrow it down, but it would be nice to go back to the state where it ran 2 hours, and add just whatever you think is the bad actor....... I don't know who the bad actor is, you will have to keep on with the trial and error and find that bad actor! Remember what I said earlier... "sometimes you need dogged determination to get to the bottom of some of these problems". John Right, John, I agree heartily. It will take some time, but I will go back to what was good (first batch of changes from base state) and start adding. Index will be the first that I re-enable after I get back to a good 2 hour run. The ball is in my court; I will crawl along toward what I hope will be a solution. Let us know what you find out! John Now 10 OM. I did as I said I would. Started with stripped, bare system. Hibernation 2 hours okay. I added Indexing *only*. It ran to 2 hours and hibernated perfectly. No significant entries into events log. In a way this was good news......and in another way, bad news. Obvious next step. Keep Indexing Automatic along with your 3 basic automatics, and start adding one at a time, the stuff that ended up, in combination, causing the malfunction. Tedious......actually tedious squared, or tedious factorial, I'm not sure which. Your comments welcome, John, but the course seems pretty obvious. Follow-on next morning. I stretched too far. In addition to 5 basic plus Indexing, I added five more, and it blew again. And it isn't trivial to diagnose why, from the Log. Back to adding just one at a time. More later. So the plot thickens. I went back to what worked, and re-activated just one service, DCOM. It now refused to hibernate, and the event log showed Service Control Manager error. I can go back and repeat the steps if you feel it's not reasonable, John. But Now we are led from DCOM (which is meaningless to me) to Service Control Manager, equally meaningless, and I don't know if I need it in my running system, or if I can safely leave it Manual (or Disabled) and go on with the next service. Next step will be to make DCOM Manual again and wait for advice. I don't think that DCOM in itself is responsible, more likely it's another application than is using DCOM that would be at fault. On a production machine this service needs to be set to Automatic Start. What errors are you seeing in the Event Log? For your trouble shooting purposes you could leave DCOM to manual for the time being and keep on with your other necessary services and see what happens. John |
#96
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WIA and hibernation again
William B. Lurie wrote:
UNk and JJ: Excuse me, but have I not been testing with all Norton software not even loaded? Much less in service.... Everybody always suspects Norton, but how can they be guilty in this case? What can I do to guarantee that they are completely out of the picture? Am I missing something here? My ground rules are Clean Boot every time, load no more than it takes to make the system run so that I can add services (and eventually applications) and have a system that turns itself off as it should after 2 hours of being idle. Okay, John, I'm back to where the first batch of services is on automatic, DCOM is manual and hibernate is okay. I'll leave DCOM on manual, and see what running the next listed service on automatic tells us. John John - MVP wrote: My guess too, (Norton), and I've had it as a suspect from the very beginning. John Unknown wrote: FYI--DCOM is set to automatic on my system and started. And I have no problems with hibernate. I think you are correct when you state something else interfacing/using DCOM is the fault. My guess-----Norton simply because of its notoriety. . "John John - MVP" wrote in message ... William B. Lurie wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: John John - MVP wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: John John - MVP wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: (snip) You can set all the services to Manual start if you want but I don't know if it will change anything, give it a try and find out. Keep these three services to Automatic start: Event Log Plug & Play Remote Procedure Call (RPC) Set all the other services to manual or disabled. After you do this try to hibernate the machine manually or in less than one hour (to make sure that it can actually hibernate with the minimal set of services). John Okay, John, will do....later. But for now, I'd like to report that my clone system is running, with clean boot, such that it does hibernate at 1 hour, giving no unexplainable event msgs or errors, and no sign of the dreaded ati2mtag or whatever it is. I followed above procedures, John, with eminent success (so far). Stripping down to just those few, it hibernated at two hours! Did it twice to make sure. So I changed the first ten to automatic and again, it hibernated at two hours. I did it twice to be sure. That is progress... So I changed the next 15 or so, and it did NOT go to 2 hours. And there is the clue to your problem. Keep notes of your changes and keep on narrowing things down. One of these 15 services prevented hibernation, keep on whittling the list down, cut out 8 of the 15 services and see if things change. If it does hibernate move on to the other 7 services, if it doesn't hibernate cut the 8 services list down to 4 and try it again... and so on until you pinpoint it down to the culprit. Here are the Events. Critical timing is that it started at 7:43, should have gone to 9:45, but things happened around 8:15, and desktop came on and I discontinued, to capture Events Monitor and pass them along. Perhaps you can interpret what they say, and tell me how to fix it, maybe by disabling some culprit......or do I search one suspect at a time until I find it? Got any clues? What is "Ci"? Event Type: Information Event Source: Ci Event Category: CI Service Event ID: 4103 Date: 4/6/2010 Time: 8:16:59 AM User: N/A Computer: COMPAQ-2006 Description: Master merge has completed on c:\system volume information\catalog.wci. That is caused by the Indexing Service. If you want you can read about the Master Merge in these search results: http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=...r2=sfp&iscqry= You can disable the Indexing Service and see if things change. I can go back and narrow it down, but it would be nice to go back to the state where it ran 2 hours, and add just whatever you think is the bad actor....... I don't know who the bad actor is, you will have to keep on with the trial and error and find that bad actor! Remember what I said earlier... "sometimes you need dogged determination to get to the bottom of some of these problems". John Right, John, I agree heartily. It will take some time, but I will go back to what was good (first batch of changes from base state) and start adding. Index will be the first that I re-enable after I get back to a good 2 hour run. The ball is in my court; I will crawl along toward what I hope will be a solution. Let us know what you find out! John Now 10 OM. I did as I said I would. Started with stripped, bare system. Hibernation 2 hours okay. I added Indexing *only*. It ran to 2 hours and hibernated perfectly. No significant entries into events log. In a way this was good news......and in another way, bad news. Obvious next step. Keep Indexing Automatic along with your 3 basic automatics, and start adding one at a time, the stuff that ended up, in combination, causing the malfunction. Tedious......actually tedious squared, or tedious factorial, I'm not sure which. Your comments welcome, John, but the course seems pretty obvious. Follow-on next morning. I stretched too far. In addition to 5 basic plus Indexing, I added five more, and it blew again. And it isn't trivial to diagnose why, from the Log. Back to adding just one at a time. More later. So the plot thickens. I went back to what worked, and re-activated just one service, DCOM. It now refused to hibernate, and the event log showed Service Control Manager error. I can go back and repeat the steps if you feel it's not reasonable, John. But Now we are led from DCOM (which is meaningless to me) to Service Control Manager, equally meaningless, and I don't know if I need it in my running system, or if I can safely leave it Manual (or Disabled) and go on with the next service. Next step will be to make DCOM Manual again and wait for advice. I don't think that DCOM in itself is responsible, more likely it's another application than is using DCOM that would be at fault. On a production machine this service needs to be set to Automatic Start. What errors are you seeing in the Event Log? For your trouble shooting purposes you could leave DCOM to manual for the time being and keep on with your other necessary services and see what happens. John John, the next test was inconclusive because I may not have waited quite 2 hours, but it is already beginning to look as though the length of time to test with DCOM plus each succeeding service, and then the next one plus each of the rest, will end some time in the next decade, not this one. I'll pursue this tack a bit further, but it seems to me that *somebody*, maybe another one of the excellent MVPs, might know which 'service' has a one hour time clock built into it. |
#97
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WIA and hibernation again
William B. Lurie wrote:
William B. Lurie wrote: UNk and JJ: Excuse me, but have I not been testing with all Norton software not even loaded? Much less in service.... Everybody always suspects Norton, but how can they be guilty in this case? What can I do to guarantee that they are completely out of the picture? Am I missing something here? My ground rules are Clean Boot every time, load no more than it takes to make the system run so that I can add services (and eventually applications) and have a system that turns itself off as it should after 2 hours of being idle. Okay, John, I'm back to where the first batch of services is on automatic, DCOM is manual and hibernate is okay. I'll leave DCOM on manual, and see what running the next listed service on automatic tells us. John John - MVP wrote: My guess too, (Norton), and I've had it as a suspect from the very beginning. John Unknown wrote: FYI--DCOM is set to automatic on my system and started. And I have no problems with hibernate. I think you are correct when you state something else interfacing/using DCOM is the fault. My guess-----Norton simply because of its notoriety. . "John John - MVP" wrote in message ... William B. Lurie wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: John John - MVP wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: John John - MVP wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: (snip) You can set all the services to Manual start if you want but I don't know if it will change anything, give it a try and find out. Keep these three services to Automatic start: Event Log Plug & Play Remote Procedure Call (RPC) Set all the other services to manual or disabled. After you do this try to hibernate the machine manually or in less than one hour (to make sure that it can actually hibernate with the minimal set of services). John Okay, John, will do....later. But for now, I'd like to report that my clone system is running, with clean boot, such that it does hibernate at 1 hour, giving no unexplainable event msgs or errors, and no sign of the dreaded ati2mtag or whatever it is. I followed above procedures, John, with eminent success (so far). Stripping down to just those few, it hibernated at two hours! Did it twice to make sure. So I changed the first ten to automatic and again, it hibernated at two hours. I did it twice to be sure. That is progress... So I changed the next 15 or so, and it did NOT go to 2 hours. And there is the clue to your problem. Keep notes of your changes and keep on narrowing things down. One of these 15 services prevented hibernation, keep on whittling the list down, cut out 8 of the 15 services and see if things change. If it does hibernate move on to the other 7 services, if it doesn't hibernate cut the 8 services list down to 4 and try it again... and so on until you pinpoint it down to the culprit. Here are the Events. Critical timing is that it started at 7:43, should have gone to 9:45, but things happened around 8:15, and desktop came on and I discontinued, to capture Events Monitor and pass them along. Perhaps you can interpret what they say, and tell me how to fix it, maybe by disabling some culprit......or do I search one suspect at a time until I find it? Got any clues? What is "Ci"? Event Type: Information Event Source: Ci Event Category: CI Service Event ID: 4103 Date: 4/6/2010 Time: 8:16:59 AM User: N/A Computer: COMPAQ-2006 Description: Master merge has completed on c:\system volume information\catalog.wci. That is caused by the Indexing Service. If you want you can read about the Master Merge in these search results: http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=...r2=sfp&iscqry= You can disable the Indexing Service and see if things change. I can go back and narrow it down, but it would be nice to go back to the state where it ran 2 hours, and add just whatever you think is the bad actor....... I don't know who the bad actor is, you will have to keep on with the trial and error and find that bad actor! Remember what I said earlier... "sometimes you need dogged determination to get to the bottom of some of these problems". John Right, John, I agree heartily. It will take some time, but I will go back to what was good (first batch of changes from base state) and start adding. Index will be the first that I re-enable after I get back to a good 2 hour run. The ball is in my court; I will crawl along toward what I hope will be a solution. Let us know what you find out! John Now 10 OM. I did as I said I would. Started with stripped, bare system. Hibernation 2 hours okay. I added Indexing *only*. It ran to 2 hours and hibernated perfectly. No significant entries into events log. In a way this was good news......and in another way, bad news. Obvious next step. Keep Indexing Automatic along with your 3 basic automatics, and start adding one at a time, the stuff that ended up, in combination, causing the malfunction. Tedious......actually tedious squared, or tedious factorial, I'm not sure which. Your comments welcome, John, but the course seems pretty obvious. Follow-on next morning. I stretched too far. In addition to 5 basic plus Indexing, I added five more, and it blew again. And it isn't trivial to diagnose why, from the Log. Back to adding just one at a time. More later. So the plot thickens. I went back to what worked, and re-activated just one service, DCOM. It now refused to hibernate, and the event log showed Service Control Manager error. I can go back and repeat the steps if you feel it's not reasonable, John. But Now we are led from DCOM (which is meaningless to me) to Service Control Manager, equally meaningless, and I don't know if I need it in my running system, or if I can safely leave it Manual (or Disabled) and go on with the next service. Next step will be to make DCOM Manual again and wait for advice. I don't think that DCOM in itself is responsible, more likely it's another application than is using DCOM that would be at fault. On a production machine this service needs to be set to Automatic Start. What errors are you seeing in the Event Log? For your trouble shooting purposes you could leave DCOM to manual for the time being and keep on with your other necessary services and see what happens. John John, the next test was inconclusive because I may not have waited quite 2 hours, but it is already beginning to look as though the length of time to test with DCOM plus each succeeding service, and then the next one plus each of the rest, will end some time in the next decade, not this one. I'll pursue this tack a bit further, but it seems to me that *somebody*, maybe another one of the excellent MVPs, might know which 'service' has a one hour time clock built into it. I would enable them in batches of 10 or more services, not one at a time, this should speed things up a bit. Also, I *always* keep these services disabled on almost any machine that I ever work with: Alerter Clipbook Human Interface Device Access Net.Tcp Port Sharing Service Network DDE Network DDE DSDM Remote Registry SSDP Discovery Service Telnet Universal Plug and Play Device Host I suggest you set them to disabled and forget about them, so that's a batch of 10 services out of the way! You can also use Process Monitor and see what it captures, it will show you which processes were running and at what time they ran. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/s.../bb896645.aspx John |
#98
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WIA and hibernation again
John, the next test was inconclusive because I may not have waited quite 2 hours, but it is already beginning to look as though the length of time to test with DCOM plus each succeeding service, and then the next one plus each of the rest, will end some time in the next decade, not this one. I'll pursue this tack a bit further, but it seems to me that *somebody*, maybe another one of the excellent MVPs, might know which 'service' has a one hour time clock built into it. I've snipped everything out because I think we're at a decision- making point. I just don't think that the try-each-service approach is going to be practical. Just too many services, too many possible combinations, too little known about each, too long to make just one test. I agree it's logical and sensible and proper scientific technique, but it's like counting the grains of sand on the beach. Getting back to the 1 hour/2 hour problem, I feel we have eliminated any running application program as a source, by just not loading them. If they don't load, they don't execute, and if they don't execute, they can't influence hibernation. So what *is* running? The system and its big-brother-given 'services'. Rereading my last comment above, I hope I didn't offend anybody, but we have to realize how enormously complex the XP system is, and it's too much to expect any MVP to be intimately familiar with the inner workings of all of its services. That's approaching the problem from the bottom up. The question, down from the top, is, can we pick enough MVPs' brains hard enough to find out which of the services is capable of preventing the supposedly idle system from hibernating after 2 hours, but not after only 1 hour. |
#99
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WIA and hibernation again
William B. Lurie wrote:
John, the next test was inconclusive because I may not have waited quite 2 hours, but it is already beginning to look as though the length of time to test with DCOM plus each succeeding service, and then the next one plus each of the rest, will end some time in the next decade, not this one. I'll pursue this tack a bit further, but it seems to me that *somebody*, maybe another one of the excellent MVPs, might know which 'service' has a one hour time clock built into it. I've snipped everything out because I think we're at a decision- making point. I just don't think that the try-each-service approach is going to be practical. No, it isn't, that is why it's best to do it in batches of 10 services or so... [snip...} So what *is* running? Sysinternals' Process Monitor will tell you that... John |
#100
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WIA and hibernation again
How does your NORTON program get updated? Is it automatic?
"William B. Lurie" wrote in message ... John, the next test was inconclusive because I may not have waited quite 2 hours, but it is already beginning to look as though the length of time to test with DCOM plus each succeeding service, and then the next one plus each of the rest, will end some time in the next decade, not this one. I'll pursue this tack a bit further, but it seems to me that *somebody*, maybe another one of the excellent MVPs, might know which 'service' has a one hour time clock built into it. I've snipped everything out because I think we're at a decision- making point. I just don't think that the try-each-service approach is going to be practical. Just too many services, too many possible combinations, too little known about each, too long to make just one test. I agree it's logical and sensible and proper scientific technique, but it's like counting the grains of sand on the beach. Getting back to the 1 hour/2 hour problem, I feel we have eliminated any running application program as a source, by just not loading them. If they don't load, they don't execute, and if they don't execute, they can't influence hibernation. So what *is* running? The system and its big-brother-given 'services'. Rereading my last comment above, I hope I didn't offend anybody, but we have to realize how enormously complex the XP system is, and it's too much to expect any MVP to be intimately familiar with the inner workings of all of its services. That's approaching the problem from the bottom up. The question, down from the top, is, can we pick enough MVPs' brains hard enough to find out which of the services is capable of preventing the supposedly idle system from hibernating after 2 hours, but not after only 1 hour. |
#101
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WIA and hibernation again
Unknown wrote:
How does your NORTON program get updated? Is it automatic? No, I *never* allow any software supplier to do automatic stuff. Norton has automatic live update, which I keep turned off. I do manual live update periodically. That goes especially for Windows as well. John, I'd be willing to look at that what's-running-monitor, how do I grab it? "William B. Lurie" wrote in message ... John, the next test was inconclusive because I may not have waited quite 2 hours, but it is already beginning to look as though the length of time to test with DCOM plus each succeeding service, and then the next one plus each of the rest, will end some time in the next decade, not this one. I'll pursue this tack a bit further, but it seems to me that *somebody*, maybe another one of the excellent MVPs, might know which 'service' has a one hour time clock built into it. I've snipped everything out because I think we're at a decision- making point. I just don't think that the try-each-service approach is going to be practical. Just too many services, too many possible combinations, too little known about each, too long to make just one test. I agree it's logical and sensible and proper scientific technique, but it's like counting the grains of sand on the beach. Getting back to the 1 hour/2 hour problem, I feel we have eliminated any running application program as a source, by just not loading them. If they don't load, they don't execute, and if they don't execute, they can't influence hibernation. So what *is* running? The system and its big-brother-given 'services'. Rereading my last comment above, I hope I didn't offend anybody, but we have to realize how enormously complex the XP system is, and it's too much to expect any MVP to be intimately familiar with the inner workings of all of its services. That's approaching the problem from the bottom up. The question, down from the top, is, can we pick enough MVPs' brains hard enough to find out which of the services is capable of preventing the supposedly idle system from hibernating after 2 hours, but not after only 1 hour. |
#102
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WIA and hibernation again
John John - MVP wrote:
William B. Lurie wrote: John, the next test was inconclusive because I may not have waited quite 2 hours, but it is already beginning to look as though the length of time to test with DCOM plus each succeeding service, and then the next one plus each of the rest, will end some time in the next decade, not this one. I'll pursue this tack a bit further, but it seems to me that *somebody*, maybe another one of the excellent MVPs, might know which 'service' has a one hour time clock built into it. I've snipped everything out because I think we're at a decision- making point. I just don't think that the try-each-service approach is going to be practical. No, it isn't, that is why it's best to do it in batches of 10 services or so... I'd love to be able to do 10 at a shot, especially since there are over 100 to do, John. But In 2 tries, at doing only one at a time, one was acceptable and the second single blew. I have no reason to expect that 10 would play... (remember, my first bank of 10 was successful, the next one failed). How do I see Sysinternals' Process Monitor? [snip...} So what *is* running? Sysinternals' Process Monitor will tell you that... John |
#103
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WIA and hibernation again
William B. Lurie wrote:
John John - MVP wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: John, the next test was inconclusive because I may not have waited quite 2 hours, but it is already beginning to look as though the length of time to test with DCOM plus each succeeding service, and then the next one plus each of the rest, will end some time in the next decade, not this one. I'll pursue this tack a bit further, but it seems to me that *somebody*, maybe another one of the excellent MVPs, might know which 'service' has a one hour time clock built into it. I've snipped everything out because I think we're at a decision- making point. I just don't think that the try-each-service approach is going to be practical. No, it isn't, that is why it's best to do it in batches of 10 services or so... I'd love to be able to do 10 at a shot, especially since there are over 100 to do, John. But In 2 tries, at doing only one at a time, one was acceptable and the second single blew. I have no reason to expect that 10 would play... (remember, my first bank of 10 was successful, the next one failed). You don't need to put all the services on Automatic start! Just do the necessary ones, leave all the others to Manual. I already gave you a list of 10 services which you should keep Disabled. I don't know what you run on your computer but of the remaining list set these to Automatic and see what happens: Cryptographic Services DCOM Server Process Launcher DHCP Client Event Log Plug and Play Print Spooler Protected Storage Remote Procedure Call (RPC) Security Accounts Manager Shell Hardware Detection System Event Notification System Restore Service Task Scheduler Themes ** Windows Audio Windows Management Instrumentation Workstation ** If you are using Themes, if you use Classic look only you don't need this on Automatic. Of course, depending on what you do with your computer, you're probably going to need to have a few other services set to start automatically but the above list is all that is needed for most users who run standalone machines. How do I see Sysinternals' Process Monitor? http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/s.../bb896645.aspx John |
#104
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WIA and hibernation again
John John - MVP wrote:
William B. Lurie wrote: John John - MVP wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: John, the next test was inconclusive because I may not have waited quite 2 hours, but it is already beginning to look as though the length of time to test with DCOM plus each succeeding service, and then the next one plus each of the rest, will end some time in the next decade, not this one. I'll pursue this tack a bit further, but it seems to me that *somebody*, maybe another one of the excellent MVPs, might know which 'service' has a one hour time clock built into it. I've snipped everything out because I think we're at a decision- making point. I just don't think that the try-each-service approach is going to be practical. No, it isn't, that is why it's best to do it in batches of 10 services or so... I'd love to be able to do 10 at a shot, especially since there are over 100 to do, John. But In 2 tries, at doing only one at a time, one was acceptable and the second single blew. I have no reason to expect that 10 would play... (remember, my first bank of 10 was successful, the next one failed). You don't need to put all the services on Automatic start! Just do the necessary ones, leave all the others to Manual. I already gave you a list of 10 services which you should keep Disabled. I don't know what you run on your computer but of the remaining list set these to Automatic and see what happens: Cryptographic Services DCOM Server Process Launcher DHCP Client Event Log Plug and Play Print Spooler Protected Storage Remote Procedure Call (RPC) Security Accounts Manager Shell Hardware Detection System Event Notification System Restore Service Task Scheduler Themes ** Windows Audio Windows Management Instrumentation Workstation ** If you are using Themes, if you use Classic look only you don't need this on Automatic. Of course, depending on what you do with your computer, you're probably going to need to have a few other services set to start automatically but the above list is all that is needed for most users who run standalone machines. How do I see Sysinternals' Process Monitor? http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/s.../bb896645.aspx John Okay, John, I'll set those to Automatic. But that still leaves about 70 more. BTW, what about RPC (Locator)? And do I really want to make Event Log Automatic? |
#105
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WIA and hibernation again
William B. Lurie wrote:
John John - MVP wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: John John - MVP wrote: William B. Lurie wrote: John, the next test was inconclusive because I may not have waited quite 2 hours, but it is already beginning to look as though the length of time to test with DCOM plus each succeeding service, and then the next one plus each of the rest, will end some time in the next decade, not this one. I'll pursue this tack a bit further, but it seems to me that *somebody*, maybe another one of the excellent MVPs, might know which 'service' has a one hour time clock built into it. I've snipped everything out because I think we're at a decision- making point. I just don't think that the try-each-service approach is going to be practical. No, it isn't, that is why it's best to do it in batches of 10 services or so... I'd love to be able to do 10 at a shot, especially since there are over 100 to do, John. But In 2 tries, at doing only one at a time, one was acceptable and the second single blew. I have no reason to expect that 10 would play... (remember, my first bank of 10 was successful, the next one failed). You don't need to put all the services on Automatic start! Just do the necessary ones, leave all the others to Manual. I already gave you a list of 10 services which you should keep Disabled. I don't know what you run on your computer but of the remaining list set these to Automatic and see what happens: Cryptographic Services DCOM Server Process Launcher DHCP Client Event Log Plug and Play Print Spooler Protected Storage Remote Procedure Call (RPC) Security Accounts Manager Shell Hardware Detection System Event Notification System Restore Service Task Scheduler Themes ** Windows Audio Windows Management Instrumentation Workstation ** If you are using Themes, if you use Classic look only you don't need this on Automatic. Of course, depending on what you do with your computer, you're probably going to need to have a few other services set to start automatically but the above list is all that is needed for most users who run standalone machines. How do I see Sysinternals' Process Monitor? http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/s.../bb896645.aspx John Okay, John, I'll set those to Automatic. But that still leaves about 70 more. Don't worry about those 70 other ones, at least not for now. Most of them can stay on Manual, the operating system will start them if they are needed. Being on manual doesn't mean that they can't be run, it just means that they won't start unless they are needed. There are a few others that you will probably want to have on Automatic but you can deal with those in the "second" batch of trial services, for the time being stick with the above. BTW, what about RPC (Locator)? Leave it on manual, that is the default setting for it when you install Windows, there is no need to have it set to Automatic. And do I really want to make Event Log Automatic? Yes, ABSOLUTELY! Always! John |
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