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#1
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Last Question - System Recovery
I tried to burn a Recovery disk as per a popup. The DVD made one part way,
and stopped working - the tray opened. The program said to return the disk to the drive and I did so. That was the end of the DVD drive. I refused to open even with the Paperclip-in-hole move. I got several errors so did a System Restore. That didn't help so decided to do a System Recovery already, just to find MS (or Dell) removed that from W8 as well. There is no onboard image to do a System Recovery from. There is no Recovery Image on this PC so I decided to return it for something else or a refund if I can get it. With no Backup Image - where was it trying to make a Recovery Disk to do a System Recovery from? I will have to delete all the things on it by hand now since there is no way to reinstall the OS and restore it to box condition. Dell will get a free DVD disk in the locked drive. My question is - why did MS remove the backup image or is that a Dell decision? I really want to know. Thanks again for all the help you all have been. |
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#2
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Last Question - System Recovery
R.H. Breener wrote:
I tried to burn a Recovery disk as per a popup. The DVD made one part way, and stopped working - the tray opened. The program said to return the disk to the drive and I did so. That was the end of the DVD drive. I refused to open even with the Paperclip-in-hole move. I got several errors so did a System Restore. That didn't help so decided to do a System Recovery already, just to find MS (or Dell) removed that from W8 as well. There is no onboard image to do a System Recovery from. There is no Recovery Image on this PC so I decided to return it for something else or a refund if I can get it. With no Backup Image - where was it trying to make a Recovery Disk to do a System Recovery from? I will have to delete all the things on it by hand now since there is no way to reinstall the OS and restore it to box condition. Dell will get a free DVD disk in the locked drive. My question is - why did MS remove the backup image or is that a Dell decision? I really want to know. Thanks again for all the help you all have been. On the Microsoft side, there are two kinds of disks. DVD 3.5GB - this contains enough files to reinstall the OS. - image available when making electronic purchase (a download) - comes in retail box (a 32 bit disc, a 64 bit disc) CD 200MB - recovery CD (boot disc) - this boots to Command Prompt - used for maintenance - Microsoft doesn't hand this out, you make this on the computer when prompted (or if in the backup control panel). Possibly recdisc.exe ? On the Dell side (3) DVD ~4GB each - the 12GB of data is enough to restore the factory C: partition - a tiny "boot" partition, without drive letter, helps the system boot, while C: holds the vast majority of files (1) DVD - driver disc specific to computer model - if using a *retail* DVD, you could use this disc afterwards to install laptop video driver. That's what I used mine for. On a new computer, you will receive prompts within the first couple of days of usage. A company like Dell prompts you to burn four DVDs. A separate prompt shows up from Microsoft, suggesting the preparation of the 200MB CD (you can burn that to a blank DVD if you want). Now, say the computer is a bit broken, so you boot the 200MB CD. You can go to Command Prompt there, and do a CHKDSK of C:, and nothing prevents it from running immediately. On the Microsoft 3.5GB DVD, most of the files are inside "install.wim" or "install.esd". The WIM format can be opened with 7ZIP, if you want to get some idea of the contents. No tool currently opens an ESD (spec unavailable, crypto unknown). The two DVDs I got from Microsoft (via download) are .esd type, and I paid $39.95 each for the OS (Win8). I cannot examine the file contents. The 200MB boot CD contains "boot.wim", which has the WinPE environment files in it. It's a bit like BartPE, a "PreInstall Environment". It's like a tiny OS, but with the understanding that lots of stuff is removed, so you can't run the computer forever with it (free ride). Don't forget the "sevenforums.com" and "eightforums.com" sites, as they have pictures of some of this stuff. When you boot the 200MB CD, it looks like this. http://www.sevenforums.com/attachmen...ry_options.jpg The bottom-most option, takes you to a Command Prompt. And you can do stuff there like "diskpart", to add a partition, or "chkdsk". You can even do "bcdedit" from there, edit the BCD (binary) file and change some of the boot info (if it is corrupted). In the above picture, the "Startup Repair" is a popular option. That can fix up the tiny boot partition if it's broken, all on its own. The "Startup Repair" can be run three times in a row (if each attempt doesn't work, try again, up to three times). The last pass, the "Startup Repair" reads the entire C and tries to repair sectors. So even without a Comp.Sci degree, you can do a fair amount of automated repair, with that one button. Have fun, Paul |
#3
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Last Question - System Recovery
R.H. Breener wrote:
I tried to burn a Recovery disk as per a popup. The DVD made one part way, and stopped working - the tray opened. The program said to return the disk to the drive and I did so. That was the end of the DVD drive. I refused to open even with the Paperclip-in-hole move. I got several errors so did a System Restore. That didn't help so decided to do a System Recovery already, just to find MS (or Dell) removed that from W8 as well. There is no onboard image to do a System Recovery from. There is no Recovery Image on this PC so I decided to return it for something else or a refund if I can get it. With no Backup Image - where was it trying to make a Recovery Disk to do a System Recovery from? I will have to delete all the things on it by hand now since there is no way to reinstall the OS and restore it to box condition. Dell will get a free DVD disk in the locked drive. My question is - why did MS remove the backup image or is that a Dell decision? I really want to know. Thanks again for all the help you all have been. MSFT didn't remove a backup image. Dell, by contract, is required for all pre-installed o/s to include the option for the user to create Recovery Media, a Recovery Partition on the hard drive for use with the created or Dell provided or ordered Recovery media. Once an 8.0 pc (if your laptop was 8.0 and not delivered as 8.1) is upgraded to 8.1 MSFT also provides the option for all 8.1 users to download an iso to create Recovery media for Refresh or Resetting the o/s. -- ....winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#4
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Last Question - System Recovery
In message , R.H. Breener
writes I tried to burn a Recovery disk as per a popup. The DVD made one part way, and stopped working - the tray opened. The program said to return the disk to the drive and I did so. That was the end of the DVD drive. I refused to open even with the Paperclip-in-hole move. I got several errors so did a System Restore. That didn't help so decided to do a System Recovery already, just to find MS (or Dell) removed that from W8 as well. There is no onboard image to do a System Recovery from. There Recovery Image on this PC so I decided to return it for something else or a refund if I can get it. With no Backup Image - where was it trying to make a Recovery Disk to do a System Recovery from? I will have to delete all the things on it by hand now since there is no way to reinstall the OS and restore it to box condition. Dell will get a free DVD disk in the locked drive. My question is - why did MS remove the backup image or is that a Dell decision? I really want to know. Thanks again for all the help you all have been. This, and the other threads, really does demonstrate why W8 has the reputation it so richly deserves. Young Mr. Breener sounds exactly like many of my friends. I have 2 points to make: 1. If you know anyone you trust who does use the OS successfully, install Teamviewer or one of the other, similar, programs and let them guide you. 2. Invest in an external usb HD for backups and image files. Windows 8 does have the inbuilt program to make an image file of the whole machine, just like Windows 7. It has just been hidden away more rigorously in the bowels of File History. It also doesn't appear here on a machine with no DVD drive until I plug in the external HD. -- Bill |
#5
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Last Question - System Recovery
R.H. Breener wrote:
I tried to burn a Recovery disk as per a popup. The DVD made one part way, and stopped working - the tray opened. The program said to return the disk to the drive and I did so. That was the end of the DVD drive. I refused to open even with the Paperclip-in-hole move. I got several errors so did a System Restore. That didn't help so decided to do a System Recovery already, just to find MS (or Dell) removed that from W8 as well. There is no onboard image to do a System Recovery from. There is no Recovery Image on this PC so I decided to return it for something else or a refund if I can get it. With no Backup Image - where was it trying to make a Recovery Disk to do a System Recovery from? I will have to delete all the things on it by hand now since there is no way to reinstall the OS and restore it to box condition. Dell will get a free DVD disk in the locked drive. My question is - why did MS remove the backup image or is that a Dell decision? I really want to know. Thanks again for all the help you all have been. That might have been the prompt to burn a 200MB boot CD. Note that tablets and laptops are treated differently now. Tablets come in ARM processor and Intel processor versions. The Intel processor ones, are the ones to get. The ARM is a dead end on Windows (uses Secure Boot). The ARM one is more likely to end up as a door stop. On tablets now, with Windows 8, they use "WIM Boot" technique. Instead of conventional "OS installation", it works similarly to a Linux LiveCD on USB stick. The initial set of OS files stays inside "install.wim". The computer boots, and decompresses files from "install.wim" on the fly. When files are updated, an overlay file system records the difference on the internal storage device (Flash memory). This means less Flash memory is wasted, and a 32GB flash chip is enough to run Windows. A question for the tablet scenario would be, even if you backed up the storage device, could you restore to it again ? I'm guessing you can, but haven't seen any web page with the details. The laptop should have a larger storage device. Partitioning options include MBR and GPT (even for disks less than 2TB in size now, they use GPT). A laptop with GPT setup (becoming more common), can have as many as five partitions. If I owned such a hunk of junk, I'd have to do forensics on the whole damn thing, to find 12GB worth of backup files. They're probably in there somewhere. And the user manuals on some of these units (like an MSI laptop might be a single sheet of paper), you can't expect uniform documentation quality. Some companies are a bit better at docs, than others. Most of these docs are non-technical "happy happy" docs, meant to deceive you about the nature of what you bought. It's then harder to get solid info on what lurks underneath (where is my recovery partition???). ******* When you go from Win8 to Win8.1, that can break the "Refresh" and "Reset" features provided by Microsoft (not by Dell). It's possible they've provided easier ways to fix this, as the issue didn't seem to be addressed all that well a year ago. If you ask the average user here, how they "manage" their computer, they'll tell you they use a "complete backup", to get to the heart of the issue. If all the involved companies are going to be stupid about this stuff, there's nothing like a complete backup. The only place I might have questions, is whether I understand the tablet issues well enough, to have my ass covered. For example, if you gave me an Android, I wouldn't look on the backup issue with any enthusiasm, since there are roadblocks to doing a good job. So tablets and mobile devices, they make me nervous. With a laptop or a desktop, I feel a bit more comfortable. If I received a GPT-based laptop, well, it would be forensic analysis time... I don't know if my recovery partition is in there or not. It should be. Paul |
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Last Question - System Recovery
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:14:40 -0500, Paul wrote:
The laptop should have a larger storage device. Partitioning options include MBR and GPT (even for disks less than 2TB in size now, they use GPT). A laptop with GPT setup (becoming more common), can have as many as five partitions. My Dell came with six partitions. If I owned such a hunk of junk, I'd have to do forensics on the whole damn thing, to find 12GB worth of backup files. They're probably in there somewhere. If you mean a restore partition, yeah, it's there. |
#7
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Last Question - System Recovery
Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:14:40 -0500, Paul wrote: The laptop should have a larger storage device. Partitioning options include MBR and GPT (even for disks less than 2TB in size now, they use GPT). A laptop with GPT setup (becoming more common), can have as many as five partitions. My Dell came with six partitions. If I owned such a hunk of junk, I'd have to do forensics on the whole damn thing, to find 12GB worth of backup files. They're probably in there somewhere. If you mean a restore partition, yeah, it's there. Is it something you can easily examine (if one of our curious visitors want to look in there) ? Paul |
#8
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Last Question - System Recovery
""...winston‫"" wrote in message ... R.H. Breener wrote: I tried to burn a Recovery disk as per a popup. The DVD made one part way, and stopped working - the tray opened. The program said to return the disk to the drive and I did so. That was the end of the DVD drive. I refused to open even with the Paperclip-in-hole move. I got several errors so did a System Restore. That didn't help so decided to do a System Recovery already, just to find MS (or Dell) removed that from W8 as well. There is no onboard image to do a System Recovery from. There is no Recovery Image on this PC so I decided to return it for something else or a refund if I can get it. With no Backup Image - where was it trying to make a Recovery Disk to do a System Recovery from? I will have to delete all the things on it by hand now since there is no way to reinstall the OS and restore it to box condition. Dell will get a free DVD disk in the locked drive. My question is - why did MS remove the backup image or is that a Dell decision? I really want to know. Thanks again for all the help you all have been. MSFT didn't remove a backup image. Dell, by contract, is required for all pre-installed o/s to include the option for the user to create Recovery Media, a Recovery Partition on the hard drive for use with the created or Dell provided or ordered Recovery media. That must be something new because both this old HP Vista and my HP W-7 at home have C: drives and D: drives. D: drive says Recovery. No need for non techies like myself to either pay someone or struggle ourselves to make a Recovery Partition. This must be new with W-8. Dell provided no Recovery media. A window popped up to make a Recovery disk which burnt part way and the drive door opened. Another popup said to replace the Disk. I did. The DVD draw locked up and never opened again. I returned the Dell today with the DVD still in the locked drive. When I looked in Windows Explorer the DVD drive no longer showed up as being there. Just C: drive. After the System Recovery, using a ThumbDrive, it still wasn't there... at that point I deleted the few things I had installed and put it back in the box. Once an 8.0 pc (if your laptop was 8.0 and not delivered as 8.1) is upgraded to 8.1 MSFT also provides the option for all 8.1 users to download an iso to create Recovery media for Refresh or Resetting the o/s. How are people supposed to know these things? There was no mention of an iso file anywhere. There was nothing on the PC (8.1) telling me to go to the website and download ANYTHING to create Recovery media. Just the popups. No booklets come with PCs now either. -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#9
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Last Question - System Recovery
"Bill" wrote in message ... In message , R.H. Breener writes I tried to burn a Recovery disk as per a popup. The DVD made one part way, and stopped working - the tray opened. The program said to return the disk to the drive and I did so. That was the end of the DVD drive. I refused to open even with the Paperclip-in-hole move. I got several errors so did a System Restore. That didn't help so decided to do a System Recovery already, just to find MS (or Dell) removed that from W8 as well. There is no onboard image to do a System Recovery from. There Recovery Image on this PC so I decided to return it for something else or a refund if I can get it. With no Backup Image - where was it trying to make a Recovery Disk to do a System Recovery from? I will have to delete all the things on it by hand now since there is no way to reinstall the OS and restore it to box condition. Dell will get a free DVD disk in the locked drive. My question is - why did MS remove the backup image or is that a Dell decision? I really want to know. Thanks again for all the help you all have been. This, and the other threads, really does demonstrate why W8 has the reputation it so richly deserves. Young Mr. Breener sounds exactly like many of my friends. I have 2 points to make: 1. If you know anyone you trust who does use the OS successfully, install Teamviewer or one of the other, similar, programs and let them guide you. No, no one. Most people I know know less about computers than I do. One guy from work was knowledgable but he moved. All they know is email and Facebook. Family have all switched to MACS. If I even mentioned these W8 problems I'd have had to listen to 30 minutes of why I should switch to a MAC. 2. Invest in an external usb HD for backups and image files. Windows 8 does have the inbuilt program to make an image file of the whole machine, just like Windows 7. It has just been hidden away more rigorously in the bowels of File History. It also doesn't appear here on a machine with no DVD drive until I plug in the external HD. Is MS hiding the backup files I so easily see on Vista and W7 called D: Recovery? To do the Recovery W8 asked for a flash drive with 5 gigs free which I always have on hand. It used that. Did the Recovery, still hab some personal files, but the LT still didn't see the DVD drive. It never opened again. At that point I had had it. As I said above Dell gets a free DVD. ;-) -- Bill |
#10
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Last Question - System Recovery
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 21:02:58 -0500, Paul wrote:
Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:14:40 -0500, Paul wrote: The laptop should have a larger storage device. Partitioning options include MBR and GPT (even for disks less than 2TB in size now, they use GPT). A laptop with GPT setup (becoming more common), can have as many as five partitions. My Dell came with six partitions. If I owned such a hunk of junk, I'd have to do forensics on the whole damn thing, to find 12GB worth of backup files. They're probably in there somewhere. If you mean a restore partition, yeah, it's there. Is it something you can easily examine (if one of our curious visitors want to look in there) ? I assigned a drive letter to the partition labeled PBR Image and as a result I see the following which I *think* are the pieces of an image. Each would fit comfortably on a DVD, for example. ################# G:\dir /s Volume in drive G is PBR Image Volume Serial Number is 1F1E-70E0 Directory of G:\ 09/28/2012 03:04 AM DIR DELL 09/28/2012 03:32 AM DIR Preload 0 File(s) 0 bytes Directory of G:\DELL 09/28/2012 03:04 AM DIR . 09/28/2012 03:04 AM DIR .. 09/28/2012 03:32 AM DIR Image 0 File(s) 0 bytes Directory of G:\DELL\Image 09/28/2012 03:32 AM DIR . 09/28/2012 03:32 AM DIR .. 09/28/2012 03:25 AM 3,518,952,341 Install.swm 09/28/2012 03:28 AM 4,061,259,681 Install2.swm 09/28/2012 03:31 AM 4,074,645,712 Install3.swm 09/28/2012 03:32 AM 376,285,138 Install4.swm 09/28/2012 03:14 AM DIR PART0001 4 File(s) 12,031,142,872 bytes Directory of G:\DELL\Image\PART0001 09/28/2012 03:14 AM DIR . 09/28/2012 03:14 AM DIR .. 09/28/2012 03:14 AM 256,376,654 EFI.wim 1 File(s) 256,376,654 bytes Directory of G:\Preload 09/28/2012 03:32 AM DIR . 09/28/2012 03:32 AM DIR .. 09/28/2012 03:14 AM 33,458,008 All.crc 09/28/2012 03:14 AM 58 BASE.DAT 09/28/2012 03:25 AM 3,518,952,341 BASE.swm 09/28/2012 03:28 AM 4,061,259,681 BASE2.swm 09/28/2012 03:31 AM 4,074,645,712 BASE3.swm 09/28/2012 03:32 AM 376,285,138 BASE4.swm 09/28/2012 03:14 AM 3,342 CSP.DAT 09/28/2012 03:14 AM 54 Desc.txt 09/28/2012 03:14 AM DIR PART0001 8 File(s) 12,064,604,334 bytes Directory of G:\Preload\PART0001 09/28/2012 03:14 AM DIR . 09/28/2012 03:14 AM DIR .. 09/28/2012 03:14 AM 256,376,654 BASE.WIM 1 File(s) 256,376,654 bytes Total Files Listed: 14 File(s) 24,608,500,514 bytes 15 Dir(s) 203,616,256 bytes free G:\ ################### And yep! 7-Zip opens the .swm and .wim files and confirms that they are a restore image and related files. Also, CSP.DAT, BASE.DAT, and Desc.txt are helpful text files. |
#11
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Last Question - System Recovery
"Paul" wrote in message ... R.H. Breener wrote: I tried to burn a Recovery disk as per a popup. The DVD made one part way, and stopped working - the tray opened. The program said to return the disk to the drive and I did so. That was the end of the DVD drive. I refused to open even with the Paperclip-in-hole move. I got several errors so did a System Restore. That didn't help so decided to do a System Recovery already, just to find MS (or Dell) removed that from W8 as well. There is no onboard image to do a System Recovery from. There is no Recovery Image on this PC so I decided to return it for something else or a refund if I can get it. With no Backup Image - where was it trying to make a Recovery Disk to do a System Recovery from? I will have to delete all the things on it by hand now since there is no way to reinstall the OS and restore it to box condition. Dell will get a free DVD disk in the locked drive. My question is - why did MS remove the backup image or is that a Dell decision? I really want to know. Thanks again for all the help you all have been. That might have been the prompt to burn a 200MB boot CD. No, not Boot. It said something about a System Recovery and gave the choice between the DVD drive (no size disk mentioned) or a Flash (thumb) Drive w/size mentioned. For the System Recovery I used a Flash drive since the DVD draw was still locked. I just followed the simple directions and went off to do something else. When I came back it was finished but still couldn't see the DVD drive. The drive was still locked. Note that tablets and laptops are treated differently now. Tablets come in ARM processor and Intel processor versions. The Intel processor ones, are the ones to get. The ARM is a dead end on Windows (uses Secure Boot). The ARM one is more likely to end up as a door stop. On tablets now, with Windows 8, they use "WIM Boot" technique. Instead of conventional "OS installation", it works similarly to a Linux LiveCD on USB stick. The initial set of OS files stays inside "install.wim". The computer boots, and decompresses files from "install.wim" on the fly. When files are updated, an overlay file system records the difference on the internal storage device (Flash memory). This means less Flash memory is wasted, and a 32GB flash chip is enough to run Windows. A question for the tablet scenario would be, even if you backed up the storage device, could you restore to it again ? I'm guessing you can, but haven't seen any web page with the details. The laptop should have a larger storage device. Partitioning options include MBR and GPT (even for disks less than 2TB in size now, they use GPT). A laptop with GPT setup (becoming more common), can have as many as five partitions. If I owned such a hunk of junk, I'd have to do forensics on the whole damn thing, to find 12GB worth of backup files. They're probably in there somewhere. ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOM... the sound of that going right over my head. :-) And the user manuals on some of these units (like an MSI laptop might be a single sheet of paper), you can't expect uniform documentation quality. Some companies are a bit better at docs, than others. Most of these docs are non-technical "happy happy" docs, meant to deceive you about the nature of what you bought. It's then harder to get solid info on what lurks underneath (where is my recovery partition???). ******* When you go from Win8 to Win8.1, that can break the "Refresh" and "Reset" features provided by Microsoft (not by Dell). It's possible they've provided easier ways to fix this, as the issue didn't seem to be addressed all that well a year ago. If you ask the average user here, how they "manage" their computer, they'll tell you they use a "complete backup", to get to the heart of the issue. These so called "complete backups" people have - how the hell do they get them installed on a crashed PC? I had a Norton complete backup Recovery disk one time plus a Norton emergency Startup/Boot Disk. They were supposed to return XP to box condition. Nope! I never could get the backedup Recovery (OS) installed on the HP PC ... and the disk was made on that PC. Directions were clear. No tech needed. It was money thrown down the crapper. The SU disk worked but not the Recovery backup disk. The exact same thing happened with the backup disks for my Vista desktop. The emergency boot disk worked (burned from the PC itself) but the "complete backup" disk did not. Like with XP, all I got was errors. Why wont the backup disks we make on our PCs actually work and reinstall the OS? The disks that used to come with PCs did. But the ones you make yourself now from your PC give errors. A helpful booklet came with PCs too. I would love to get my hands on a W7 or Vista disk and somehow install in on the next Laptop. I don't care for the changes I see in W8. If all the involved companies are going to be stupid about this stuff, there's nothing like a complete backup. The only place I might have questions, is whether I understand the tablet issues well enough, to have my ass covered. For example, if you gave me an Android, I wouldn't look on the backup issue with any enthusiasm, since there are roadblocks to doing a good job. So tablets and mobile devices, they make me nervous. With a laptop or a desktop, I feel a bit more comfortable. If I received a GPT-based laptop, well, it would be forensic analysis time... I don't know if my recovery partition is in there or not. It should be. I just gave them a quick glance today because they would be of no use to me. Paul |
#12
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Last Question - System Recovery
R.H. Breener wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message That might have been the prompt to burn a 200MB boot CD. No, not Boot. It said something about a System Recovery and gave the choice between the DVD drive (no size disk mentioned) or a Flash (thumb) Drive w/size mentioned. For the System Recovery I used a Flash drive since the DVD draw was still locked. I just followed the simple directions and went off to do something else. When I came back it was finished but still couldn't see the DVD drive. The drive was still locked. So maybe you can try booting the Flash drive when you get a chance. On my Asus motherboards here, popup boot (when the system starts) is F8. One other system here, you press F11. Yet another, you press F2. A rectangular box appears in the BIOS window, with a list of storage devices, and the USB flash should be listed. You cursor down with arrow keys, hit return to select the USB flash, and then it should attempt to boot off your freshly prepared USB flash. A well designed BIOS screen (with the splash logo disabled so you can see the text underneath), the BIOS will print the value of Function key to use to enter the BIOS or to use the BIOS popup boot. I'd have to do forensics on the whole damn thing, to find 12GB worth of backup files. They're probably in there somewhere. ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOM... the sound of that going right over my head. :-) Char just looked in his "PBR image" partition and found three DVD images. So it seems relatively easy to get that far. See his post of 11:27PM that has lines like this in it. 09/28/2012 03:25 AM 3,518,952,341 Install.swm \ 09/28/2012 03:28 AM 4,061,259,681 Install2.swm \___ 3 DVD to restore C: ? 09/28/2012 03:31 AM 4,074,645,712 Install3.swm / 09/28/2012 03:32 AM 376,285,138 Install4.swm --- driver CD ? 7-ZIP opened them, but I'd probably be doing a few more checks before changing the file extension and making a DVD out of each one. I use the Linux "file" command, and ask it if the swm file is actually an ISO. As well, programs like "disktype" can identify the file system inside a single file (if the swm has an ISO inside it). There are a few tricks like that I use to double check stuff. These so called "complete backups" people have - how the hell do they get them installed on a crashed PC? I had a Norton complete backup Recovery disk one time plus a Norton emergency Startup/Boot Disk. They were supposed to return XP to box condition. Nope! I never could get the backedup Recovery (OS) installed on the HP PC ... and the disk was made on that PC. Directions were clear. No tech needed. It was money thrown down the crapper. The SU disk worked but not the Recovery backup disk. The exact same thing happened with the backup disks for my Vista desktop. The emergency boot disk worked (burned from the PC itself) but the "complete backup" disk did not. Like with XP, all I got was errors. Why wont the backup disks we make on our PCs actually work and reinstall the OS? The disks that used to come with PCs did. But the ones you make yourself now from your PC give errors. A helpful booklet came with PCs too. I would love to get my hands on a W7 or Vista disk and somehow install in on the next Laptop. I don't care for the changes I see in W8. Having needed to restore things here, the two methods I tested, worked properly (Windows backup/restore, Macrium backup/restore using CD). I generally like methods, where the data isn't really locked up. If the restoration method fails, I want a data format for the image, that 7-ZIP can open or whatever. For example, both Acronis and Macrium, have File Explorer plugins that allow mounting their backup images, as if they were disk drives. So you can see all your files sitting there, and extract them. By having both a restore option, as well as a random access option, that softens the blow if one method doesn't work. If I make a backup of the laptop with Windows backup, the hard drive backup method makes VHD files. Those can be mounted like disk drives to (on WinXP, I just pop them into Virtual PC 2007 in a virtual machine, and marvell at the collection of files). I think even Macrium has a converter, for converting a .mrimg backup into a .vhd file, for export to the virtual machine world. The idea is to slowly collect a "web of capability", so you can move data from one environment to another. And never be entirely dead in the water. Sure, I get burned, but the times I have multiple options, I can sometimes make a "save" and get out of trouble. Paul |
#13
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Last Question - System Recovery
"Paul" wrote in message ... R.H. Breener wrote: "Paul" wrote in message That might have been the prompt to burn a 200MB boot CD. No, not Boot. It said something about a System Recovery and gave the choice between the DVD drive (no size disk mentioned) or a Flash (thumb) Drive w/size mentioned. For the System Recovery I used a Flash drive since the DVD draw was still locked. I just followed the simple directions and went off to do something else. When I came back it was finished but still couldn't see the DVD drive. The drive was still locked. So maybe you can try booting the Flash drive when you get a chance. On my Asus motherboards here, popup boot (when the system starts) is F8. One other system here, you press F11. Yet another, you press F2. A rectangular box appears in the BIOS window, with a list of storage devices, and the USB flash should be listed. You cursor down with arrow keys, hit return to select the USB flash, and then it should attempt to boot off your freshly prepared USB flash. So with the next LT I use a Flashdrive to back up my OS. Then if the PC crashes.... what? How do I get it booted to even reach the BIOS? I would have no boot disk. I didn't see a choice to make a Boot Disk, just the Recovery Disk or Flash. If the thing comes to life and I can reach the BIOS I can direct it to the Flash drive. A well designed BIOS screen (with the splash logo disabled so you can see the text underneath), the BIOS will print the value of Function key to use to enter the BIOS or to use the BIOS popup boot. I'd have to do forensics on the whole damn thing, to find 12GB worth of backup files. They're probably in there somewhere. ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOM... the sound of that going right over my head. :-) Char just looked in his "PBR image" partition and found three DVD images. So it seems relatively easy to get that far. See his post of 11:27PM that has lines like this in it. 09/28/2012 03:25 AM 3,518,952,341 Install.swm \ 09/28/2012 03:28 AM 4,061,259,681 Install2.swm \___ 3 DVD to restore C: ? 09/28/2012 03:31 AM 4,074,645,712 Install3.swm / 09/28/2012 03:32 AM 376,285,138 Install4.swm --- driver CD ? My external Seagate is supposed to have a complete backup of my desktop with W-7 and keep files updated. I have no clue how to use that Backup if W7 crashes. I may find that info online. 7-ZIP opened them, but I'd probably be doing a few more checks before changing the file extension and making a DVD out of each one. I use the Linux "file" command, and ask it if the swm file is actually an ISO. As well, programs like "disktype" can identify the file system inside a single file (if the swm has an ISO inside it). There are a few tricks like that I use to double check stuff. These so called "complete backups" people have - how the hell do they get them installed on a crashed PC? I had a Norton complete backup Recovery disk one time plus a Norton emergency Startup/Boot Disk. They were supposed to return XP to box condition. Nope! I never could get the backedup Recovery (OS) installed on the HP PC ... and the disk was made on that PC. Directions were clear. No tech needed. It was money thrown down the crapper. The SU disk worked but not the Recovery backup disk. The exact same thing happened with the backup disks for my Vista desktop. The emergency boot disk worked (burned from the PC itself) but the "complete backup" disk did not. Like with XP, all I got was errors. Why wont the backup disks we make on our PCs actually work and reinstall the OS? The disks that used to come with PCs did. But the ones you make yourself now from your PC give errors. A helpful booklet came with PCs too. I would love to get my hands on a W7 or Vista disk and somehow install in on the next Laptop. I don't care for the changes I see in W8. Having needed to restore things here, the two methods I tested, worked properly (Windows backup/restore, Macrium backup/restore using CD). I generally like methods, where the data isn't really locked up. If the restoration method fails, I want a data format for the image, that 7-ZIP can open or whatever. For example, both Acronis and Macrium, have File Explorer plugins that allow mounting their backup images, as if they were disk drives. So you can see all your files sitting there, and extract them. By having both a restore option, as well as a random access option, that softens the blow if one method doesn't work. So how does that restore your PCs OS back on the PC so the PC runs again? If I make a backup of the laptop with Windows backup, the hard drive backup method makes VHD files. Those can be mounted like disk drives to (on WinXP, I just pop them into Virtual PC 2007 in a virtual machine, and marvell at the collection of files). So you use Window's backup to make OS Recovery Disks for your PC? Or are you taking about your personal files? I think even Macrium has a converter, for converting a .mrimg backup into a .vhd file, for export to the virtual machine world. The idea is to slowly collect a "web of capability", so you can move data from one environment to another. And never be entirely dead in the water. Sure, I get burned, but the times I have multiple options, I can sometimes make a "save" and get out of trouble. And this restores your OS? Paul |
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Last Question - System Recovery
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 01:12:34 -0500, R.H. Breener wrote:
So with the next LT I use a Flashdrive to back up my OS. Then if the PC crashes.... what? How do I get it booted to even reach the BIOS? I would have no boot disk. I didn't see a choice to make a Boot Disk, just the Recovery Disk or Flash. If the thing comes to life and I can reach the BIOS I can direct it to the Flash drive. The BIOS has nothing to do with booting from a hard drive. The BIOS is the motherboard's ROM with *firmware* that figures out which drives are present & executes what's available on the chosen drive (usually a boot sector sort of thing). -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#15
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Last Question - System Recovery
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 01:12:34 -0500, R.H. Breener wrote: So with the next LT I use a Flashdrive to back up my OS. Then if the PC crashes.... what? How do I get it booted to even reach the BIOS? I would have no boot disk. I didn't see a choice to make a Boot Disk, just the Recovery Disk or Flash. If the thing comes to life and I can reach the BIOS I can direct it to the Flash drive. The BIOS has nothing to do with booting from a hard drive. The BIOS is the motherboard's ROM with *firmware* that figures out which drives are present & executes what's available on the chosen drive (usually a boot sector sort of thing). And another data point - you can unplug all the storage devices, all the hard drives, all the CD/DVD burners... and the BIOS screen will still come up. You can still enter the "BIOS Setup" screen. The BIOS code is stored in an EEPROM on the motherboard. Only a Compaq from around 18-20 years ago, kept the BIOS on an actual storage device (a disaster waiting to happen). We've made progress since then. Generally, with backup software, you will be prompted at some point, to make a "boot CD". In Windows, that would be that 200MB recovery CD we've been talking about. If you buy a copy of Acronis TIH or set up Macrium, they also have boot CDs. The boot CD is necessary for the developers to claim "bare metal restore". Meaning even if you have a brand-new empty hard drive, the boot CD you make, is all that is necessary to transfer the backup from your external drive, to the new hard drive installed inside the computer. If you don't have a boot CD, it's pretty hard to guarantee to a user, that "bare metal restore" is possible. That's why we collect these CD and keep them in an easy to tip over pile in the computer room. And the main advantage of boot CDs over flash drives, is a user may be tempted to add files to the flash drive, and generally run risks of trashing it. If you burn a CD-R with something important like a boot CD image on it, it's a bit more difficult to erase it by accident. Paul |
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