How to use Acronis to backup o/s ?

Mike Torello wrote:
"Bill in Co." wrote:

Mike Torello wrote:
"Bill in Co." wrote:

Mike Torello wrote:
"Bill in Co." wrote:

Again... download and take the time to digest the material in the
user
guide. It is quite simple to follow - easier than one of Anna's
treatises... and might even include less text.

Too simple, to the point of being a bit too simplistic, although the
general ideas are covered.

I'm talking about what partition copying IS, or is NOT. I've used
ATI,
BING, and PM, so I think I've got a pretty good understanding of the
*underlying concepts* here which have nothing to do with the specific
program being used, except as to which technique is or is not being
used.

You can keep this conversation alive if you like. I am satisfied that
the partition copying results in an IDENTICAL copy.

Pony up the bucks, try it out and report back if/when you find
differently. Until then all you can do is guess - and continue to
qualify your guesses with the disclaimer that you've never used the
program.

Actually, it won't take any guessing if you (or whoever) just check it
out yourself.

To see if it is a bonafide sector-by-sector partition copy, look at the
sizes of the two partitions (i.e., on the source and destination drive)
after the operation is complete. And also look at the copied *folder*
date
time stamps, and see if they are the same as on the source partition.
A true generational copy will also *maintain* the original folder and
subfolder dates, in addition to the sizes of the partitions themselves
(note: the size of the partition - NOT the amount of the data inside;
BIG difference there!!!).

You are wrong again (who woulda thunk it!?). A partition/disk can be
cloned with the resulting clone being either larger, smaller or the
same size as the original.

That is NOT a partition copy, at the disk sector level. They are NOT
identical.

Also, did you, or did you not, check the folder dates on the destination
drive, to see if they were identical to those on the source drive
partition?
I notice you didn't address that, and it would be useful to know. You
could easily check it in windows explorer.

OK... here's a hypothetical situation for YOU to think about -
everyone else sit back and lurk.

What do you mean "OK"?? Did you, or did you NOT, check out what I asked?
I gather you did NOT. How hard is that to do (assuming you have used
Casper)? It would take you all of about 2 minutes (assuming you
understand what you're looking at). Report back your findings. Note: I'm
not talking about the "clone whole disk" option here)

Remember: Casper uses the term "copy" when it clones.

System disk: 160gigs, two partitions, C (system) and D (misc. data,
none of it needed by any installed programs, none of it even referred
to by anything on C). C is 110gigs - 40gigs of it used. D is 50 gigs.

Second internal disk: 110gigs, two partitions, G and H. G: 55gigs, H
is the same.

If one uses Casper's partition copy (Copy a specific drive) to copy C
to G, what do you predict the result will be on G?

Predict the same if the first disk is only a single partition C, and
only 40 gigs of it is used.

Well, I'd consider answering your question if you answer mine (this now, for
the second time around).

"Bill in Co." wrote:

Mike Torello wrote:
"Bill in Co." wrote:

Mike Torello wrote:
"Bill in Co." wrote:

Mike Torello wrote:
"Bill in Co." wrote:

Again... download and take the time to digest the material in the
user
guide. It is quite simple to follow - easier than one of Anna's
treatises... and might even include less text.

Too simple, to the point of being a bit too simplistic, although the
general ideas are covered.

I'm talking about what partition copying IS, or is NOT. I've used
ATI,
BING, and PM, so I think I've got a pretty good understanding of the
*underlying concepts* here which have nothing to do with the specific
program being used, except as to which technique is or is not being
used.

You can keep this conversation alive if you like. I am satisfied that
the partition copying results in an IDENTICAL copy.

Pony up the bucks, try it out and report back if/when you find
differently. Until then all you can do is guess - and continue to
qualify your guesses with the disclaimer that you've never used the
program.

Actually, it won't take any guessing if you (or whoever) just check it
out yourself.

To see if it is a bonafide sector-by-sector partition copy, look at the
sizes of the two partitions (i.e., on the source and destination drive)
after the operation is complete. And also look at the copied *folder*
date
time stamps, and see if they are the same as on the source partition.
A true generational copy will also *maintain* the original folder and
subfolder dates, in addition to the sizes of the partitions themselves
(note: the size of the partition - NOT the amount of the data inside;
BIG difference there!!!).

You are wrong again (who woulda thunk it!?). A partition/disk can be
cloned with the resulting clone being either larger, smaller or the
same size as the original.

That is NOT a partition copy, at the disk sector level. They are NOT
identical.

Also, did you, or did you not, check the folder dates on the destination
drive, to see if they were identical to those on the source drive
partition?
I notice you didn't address that, and it would be useful to know. You
could easily check it in windows explorer.

OK... here's a hypothetical situation for YOU to think about -
everyone else sit back and lurk.

What do you mean "OK"?? Did you, or did you NOT, check out what I asked?
I gather you did NOT. How hard is that to do (assuming you have used
Casper)? It would take you all of about 2 minutes (assuming you
understand what you're looking at). Report back your findings. Note: I'm
not talking about the "clone whole disk" option here)

Neither am I.

If you've been keeping track, you should know that I do NOT have
Casper, I've only been reading the User Guide that I got from the
Casper website - something you can do as easily as I did.

Once mo Casper says "copy" when it means "clone".

There are TWO methods available to Casper users (taken directly from
that User Guide)... (1) Copy an entire hard disk, and (2) Copy a
specific drive (which translates to Copy a specific partition).

Remember: Casper uses the term "copy" when it clones.

System disk: 160gigs, two partitions, C (system) and D (misc. data,
none of it needed by any installed programs, none of it even referred
to by anything on C). C is 110gigs - 40gigs of it used. D is 50 gigs.

Second internal disk: 110gigs, two partitions, G and H. G: 55gigs, H
is the same.

If one uses Casper's partition copy (Copy a specific drive) to copy C
to G, what do you predict the result will be on G?

Predict the same if the first disk is only a single partition C, and
only 40 gigs of it is used.

Well, I'd consider answering your question if you answer mine (this now, for
the second time around).

What more do you want from me? I say that BOTH methods (copy
disk/partition) will result in an EXACT COPY (all file dates the
same) that is BOOTABLE.

It only stand to reason, otherwise why would one want to copy a system
partition?

Mike Torello wrote:

"Anna" wrote:

Where the user has a multi-partitioned source HDD the cloning process
becomes a bit more complicated since now the user must clone each partition
on the source HDD (assuming that's what he or she wants to do, i.e., include
*all* the partitions on their source HDD) to the destination HDD. While
there's little problem in doing that, it does mean that the destination HDD
will contain a multitude of partitions and depending upon the sheer number
of generational copies of the user's system he or she wants to retain, this
can be a bit unwieldy.

But as long as the user properly labels each destination partition so that
he or she can later easily identify the date each partition was created
there should be no problem in later determining which partition(s) the user
needs to restore his/her system as of a particular date.

Imaging that multi-partitioned drive is simple, and fast. No
individual partitions to image. None to re-label to help keep track of
them on the destination drive.

Like I said befo Casper is cripple-ware compared to Acronis True
Image as far as I am concerned.

It might be the best gol-durned cloning tool in the business, but it
can ONLY clone.

AND if one wants to keep multiple copies of a clone of a
multi-partitioned drive, it's practically useless.

WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:04:51 -0700, "Bill in Co."
wrote:

Mike Torello wrote:
"Bill in Co." wrote:

Mike Torello wrote:
"Bill in Co." wrote:

Again... download and take the time to digest the material in the user
guide. It is quite simple to follow - easier than one of Anna's
treatises... and might even include less text.

Too simple, to the point of being a bit too simplistic, although the
general
ideas are covered.

I'm talking about what partition copying IS, or is NOT. I've used
ATI,
BING, and PM, so I think I've got a pretty good understanding of the
*underlying concepts* here which have nothing to do with the specific
program being used, except as to which technique is or is not being
used.

You can keep this conversation alive if you like. I am satisfied that
the partition copying results in an IDENTICAL copy.

Pony up the bucks, try it out and report back if/when you find
differently. Until then all you can do is guess - and continue to
qualify your guesses with the disclaimer that you've never used the
program.

Actually, it won't take any guessing if you (or whoever) just check it
out
yourself.

To see if it is a bonafide sector-by-sector partition copy, look at the
sizes of the two partitions (i.e., on the source and destination drive)
after the operation is complete. And also look at the copied folder
date
and time stamps, and see if they are the same as on the source partition.
A true generational copy will also maintain the original folder and
subfolder dates, in addition to the sizes of the partitions themselves
(note: size of the partition, and NOT the amount of the data inside; BIG
difference there).

You are wrong again (who woulda thunk it!?). A partition/disk can be
cloned with the resulting clone being either larger, smaller or the
same size as the original.

That is NOT a partition copy, at the disk sector level. They are not
identical.

Also, did you, or did you not, check the folder dates on the destination
drive, to see if they were identical to those on the source drive partition?
I notice you didn't address that, and it would be useful to know. You
could easily check it in windows explorer.


I just checked and my C drive C:\Windows folder is dated June 20, 2008
1:48 PM and so is my C:\Windows on my backup, cloned drive.

So it's IDENTICAL!

One down, one to go.

If it's bootable, maybe Bill will STF up :-)

WaIIy wrote:

On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:19:41 -0600, Mike Torello
wrote:

WaIIy wrote:

On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:41:49 -0700, "Bill in Co."
wrote:

WaIIy wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:35:38 -0700, "Bill in Co."
wrote:

WaIIy wrote:

I have the option to clone the drive or copy it. I copied it to an
existing partition on my second internal drive.

I think the message for copying reads something like "copy a partition"
so I just copied the whole C drive which is one partition to
an existing partition on my second drive (which has 2 partitions).

OK, then presumably Casper handles it behind the scenes by first deleting
that partition and then creating it WHEN it copies the source drive
partition to the destination drive. (In contrast, using Boot It NG,
which
does less hand holding, *you* must FIRST mark that space as "Unallocated"
on the destination drive (or delete the partition there), and only THEN
will it
do the partition copy operation.

In my case, I copied (not cloned) the C drive to a partition (D) on my
destination drive. I have D and E on my destination drive.


The existing partition I copied to was and is 37 gigs, the copy takes up
27 gigs

That's because the pre-existing partition there was deleted in the copy
partition operation (and effectively recreated as this new and smaller
one).

"Was and is" The destination drive had partition D of 37 gigs. The
copy was 27 gigs. The partition is still 37 gigs.
Casper didn't touch it.

Then it's not a true "partition copy" in the normal usage of the term, since
the source and destination partitions are NOT identical. If what you said
is true, then apparently it's only copying the data contents of what's
inside the partition, and is NOT making identical partitions. (I'm talking
about the size of the partition here, NOT the total size of the data
inside!. For example, my main C: partition is 40 GB in size, but only
half of it is in use at this point (about 20 GB of data).


I agree, the partitions are not identical.

The stuff in them seems to be, although my copy is not bootable from the
outset.

I "think" "possibly" it can be made bootable, but not quite sure.

It's gotta be. What about when you copy a single-partitioned system
disk to a partition on a second drive.

It's not an image. If it ain't bootable, what good is it as a
backup!?

I'm talking the "Copy" not the clone.

From looking at both options as they appear in the User Guide, there's
no difference.

WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:03:17 -0600, Mike Torello
wrote:

"Anna" wrote:

In any event, to avoid complications arising out of partition-to-partition
type cloning operations, it's usually best to clone the *entire* contents of
one's source HDD to the destination HDD. So that when the need arises to
restore the system a simple disk-to-disk reverse cloning operation is all
that's needed.

So... what was all that about how to clone a drive/disk to a single
partition, and then doing it again later to another partition... so
that one could keep "generational copies"??

I personally don't think you can do that. Maybe you can???

You own Casper, don't you? TRY it.

WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:39:21 -0600, Mike Torello
wrote:

I just checked and my C drive C:\Windows folder is dated June 20, 2008
1:48 PM and so is my C:\Windows on my backup, cloned drive.

So it's IDENTICAL!

One down, one to go.

If it's bootable, maybe Bill will STF up :-)

I know it's bootable, I tried it.

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYES!

I Copied ( Not Cloned) my C drive (it has one partition) to a
Partition on a multi-partition drive and the C:\Windows date is the
same as on my C drive and the same as on the external clone.

I keep a copy and a clone.

My clone is all by itself.

My copy is on a partition of a multi-partitoned drive.

Bill has been trying to figure Casper out since LAST FEBRUARY.

Maybe now he can move on.

WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:42:10 -0600, Mike Torello
wrote:

WaIIy wrote:

On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:19:41 -0600, Mike Torello
wrote:

WaIIy wrote:

On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:41:49 -0700, "Bill in Co."
wrote:

WaIIy wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:35:38 -0700, "Bill in Co."
wrote:

WaIIy wrote:

I have the option to clone the drive or copy it. I copied it to an
existing partition on my second internal drive.

I think the message for copying reads something like "copy a partition"
so I just copied the whole C drive which is one partition to
an existing partition on my second drive (which has 2 partitions).

OK, then presumably Casper handles it behind the scenes by first deleting
that partition and then creating it WHEN it copies the source drive
partition to the destination drive. (In contrast, using Boot It NG,
which
does less hand holding, *you* must FIRST mark that space as "Unallocated"
on the destination drive (or delete the partition there), and only THEN
will it
do the partition copy operation.

In my case, I copied (not cloned) the C drive to a partition (D) on my
destination drive. I have D and E on my destination drive.


The existing partition I copied to was and is 37 gigs, the copy takes up
27 gigs

That's because the pre-existing partition there was deleted in the copy
partition operation (and effectively recreated as this new and smaller
one).

"Was and is" The destination drive had partition D of 37 gigs. The
copy was 27 gigs. The partition is still 37 gigs.
Casper didn't touch it.

Then it's not a true "partition copy" in the normal usage of the term, since
the source and destination partitions are NOT identical. If what you said
is true, then apparently it's only copying the data contents of what's
inside the partition, and is NOT making identical partitions. (I'm talking
about the size of the partition here, NOT the total size of the data
inside!. For example, my main C: partition is 40 GB in size, but only
half of it is in use at this point (about 20 GB of data).


I agree, the partitions are not identical.

The stuff in them seems to be, although my copy is not bootable from the
outset.

I "think" "possibly" it can be made bootable, but not quite sure.

It's gotta be. What about when you copy a single-partitioned system
disk to a partition on a second drive.

It's not an image. If it ain't bootable, what good is it as a
backup!?

I'm talking the "Copy" not the clone.

From looking at both options as they appear in the User Guide, there's
no difference.

There's a huge difference.

Not functionally: the end product is identical to the source, and it's
bootable. That's what matters.

Mike Torello wrote:

WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:03:17 -0600, Mike Torello
wrote:

"Anna" wrote:

In any event, to avoid complications arising out of partition-to-partition
type cloning operations, it's usually best to clone the *entire* contents of
one's source HDD to the destination HDD. So that when the need arises to
restore the system a simple disk-to-disk reverse cloning operation is all
that's needed.

So... what was all that about how to clone a drive/disk to a single
partition, and then doing it again later to another partition... so
that one could keep "generational copies"??

I personally don't think you can do that. Maybe you can???

You own Casper, don't you? TRY it.

You don't have to. You just said in another post that you "copied" to
an existing partition on another disk and the copy is bootable. You
can do that on as many partitions as space on the destination drive is
available.

Good luck using Casper to "reverse clone". It might get confusing.

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:07:54 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

So... what was all that about how to clone a drive/disk to a single
partition, and then doing it again later to another partition... so
that one could keep "generational copies"??

I personally don't think you can do that. Maybe you can???

You own Casper, don't you? TRY it.

****, okay, I'll try it and report back.

Don't bother. It can be done... I did it yesterday to test it out.

Keeping multiple images with Acronis is much simpler if one wants that
ability.

Richie Hardwick

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:18:09 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:12:30 -0600, Richie Hardwick
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:07:54 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

So... what was all that about how to clone a drive/disk to a single
partition, and then doing it again later to another partition... so
that one could keep "generational copies"??

I personally don't think you can do that. Maybe you can???

You own Casper, don't you? TRY it.

****, okay, I'll try it and report back.

Don't bother. It can be done... I did it yesterday to test it out.

Keeping multiple images with Acronis is much simpler if one wants that
ability.

Richie Hardwick

You can't boot the Copy, I just tried it.
I can boot my Clone, not my Copy.

You tried something else.

Nope. I used "Copy a specific drive".

To be bootable, it's gotta be in the Primary partition.

Trust me: ALL such copies will be "bootable" (an EXACT duplicate)
except for the above limitation - they HAVE to be if they are going to
be "reverse-clonable" to restore the system partition.

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:32:05 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:22:36 -0600, Richie Hardwick
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:18:09 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:12:30 -0600, Richie Hardwick
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:07:54 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

So... what was all that about how to clone a drive/disk to a single
partition, and then doing it again later to another partition... so
that one could keep "generational copies"??

I personally don't think you can do that. Maybe you can???

You own Casper, don't you? TRY it.

****, okay, I'll try it and report back.

Don't bother. It can be done... I did it yesterday to test it out.

Keeping multiple images with Acronis is much simpler if one wants that
ability.

Richie Hardwick

You can't boot the Copy, I just tried it.
I can boot my Clone, not my Copy.

You tried something else.

Nope. I used "Copy a specific drive".

To be bootable, it's gotta be in the Primary partition.

Trust me: ALL such copies will be "bootable" (an EXACT duplicate)
except for the above limitation - they HAVE to be if they are going to
be "reverse-clonable" to restore the system partition.

My second drive has D and E.

My copy is on D

It wouldn't boot.

That's all I know.

You did something wrong. It worked on mine yesterday and it just
worked again.

On TWO internal drives (I have four counting my system drive - plus
two externals).

Richie

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:42:10 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:36:45 -0600, Richie Hardwick
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:32:05 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:22:36 -0600, Richie Hardwick
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:18:09 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:12:30 -0600, Richie Hardwick
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:07:54 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

So... what was all that about how to clone a drive/disk to a single
partition, and then doing it again later to another partition... so
that one could keep "generational copies"??

I personally don't think you can do that. Maybe you can???

You own Casper, don't you? TRY it.

****, okay, I'll try it and report back.

Don't bother. It can be done... I did it yesterday to test it out.

Keeping multiple images with Acronis is much simpler if one wants that
ability.

Richie Hardwick

You can't boot the Copy, I just tried it.
I can boot my Clone, not my Copy.

You tried something else.

Nope. I used "Copy a specific drive".

To be bootable, it's gotta be in the Primary partition.

Trust me: ALL such copies will be "bootable" (an EXACT duplicate)
except for the above limitation - they HAVE to be if they are going to
be "reverse-clonable" to restore the system partition.

My second drive has D and E.

My copy is on D

It wouldn't boot.

That's all I know.

You did something wrong. It worked on mine yesterday and it just
worked again.

On TWO internal drives (I have four counting my system drive - plus
two externals).

Richie

Is the partition you booted from marked "Active" when you look in disk
management?

Ps It's hard to do something wrong when I just copied C to D.

I unplugged my C drive and plugged the second drive in that connector
on my MB.

"No boot device available"

Don't know what to tell you. It works fine here, so I absolutely KNOW
you're doing something wrong.

I even used Casper to make an "incremental clone" of yesterday's after
I installed a .NET update and a Defender update today.

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:42:10 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:36:45 -0600, Richie Hardwick
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:32:05 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:22:36 -0600, Richie Hardwick
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:18:09 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:12:30 -0600, Richie Hardwick
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:07:54 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

So... what was all that about how to clone a drive/disk to a single
partition, and then doing it again later to another partition... so
that one could keep "generational copies"??

I personally don't think you can do that. Maybe you can???

You own Casper, don't you? TRY it.

****, okay, I'll try it and report back.

Don't bother. It can be done... I did it yesterday to test it out.

Keeping multiple images with Acronis is much simpler if one wants that
ability.

Richie Hardwick

You can't boot the Copy, I just tried it.
I can boot my Clone, not my Copy.

You tried something else.

Nope. I used "Copy a specific drive".

To be bootable, it's gotta be in the Primary partition.

Trust me: ALL such copies will be "bootable" (an EXACT duplicate)
except for the above limitation - they HAVE to be if they are going to
be "reverse-clonable" to restore the system partition.

My second drive has D and E.

My copy is on D

It wouldn't boot.

That's all I know.

You did something wrong. It worked on mine yesterday and it just
worked again.

On TWO internal drives (I have four counting my system drive - plus
two externals).

Richie

Is the partition you booted from marked "Active" when you look in disk
management?

Ps It's hard to do something wrong when I just copied C to D.

I unplugged my C drive and plugged the second drive in that connector
on my MB.

"No boot device available"

DID you go into your BIOS and make SURE the new disk is first in the
boot order????

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 21:04:29 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:56:28 -0600, Richie Hardwick
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:42:10 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:36:45 -0600, Richie Hardwick
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:32:05 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:22:36 -0600, Richie Hardwick
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:18:09 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:12:30 -0600, Richie Hardwick
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:07:54 -0500, WaIIy wrote:

So... what was all that about how to clone a drive/disk to a single
partition, and then doing it again later to another partition... so
that one could keep "generational copies"??

I personally don't think you can do that. Maybe you can???

You own Casper, don't you? TRY it.

****, okay, I'll try it and report back.

Don't bother. It can be done... I did it yesterday to test it out.

Keeping multiple images with Acronis is much simpler if one wants that
ability.

Richie Hardwick

You can't boot the Copy, I just tried it.
I can boot my Clone, not my Copy.

You tried something else.

Nope. I used "Copy a specific drive".

To be bootable, it's gotta be in the Primary partition.

Trust me: ALL such copies will be "bootable" (an EXACT duplicate)
except for the above limitation - they HAVE to be if they are going to
be "reverse-clonable" to restore the system partition.

My second drive has D and E.

My copy is on D

It wouldn't boot.

That's all I know.

You did something wrong. It worked on mine yesterday and it just
worked again.

On TWO internal drives (I have four counting my system drive - plus
two externals).

Richie

Is the partition you booted from marked "Active" when you look in disk
management?

Ps It's hard to do something wrong when I just copied C to D.

I unplugged my C drive and plugged the second drive in that connector
on my MB.

"No boot device available"

DID you go into your BIOS and make SURE the new disk is first in the
boot order????

I didn't have to. I took out the C drive plug and plugged in the Copied
drive.

Check again. If you have any other drives connected at bootup - even
USB drives - they might have moved up in the boot order.