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Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10



 
 
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  #151  
Old March 13th 19, 11:52 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 185
Default Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10 fedora

On 3/12/2019 10:00 PM, T wrote:
On 3/12/19 9:28 PM, Paul wrote:
Maybe I should download and try this Fedora 29 and see for myself
whetherÂ*itÂ*isÂ*allÂ*pureÂ*Gold.

Rene


TestedÂ*andÂ*tossed.

IÂ*keepÂ*piecesÂ*ofÂ*paperÂ*tapedÂ*toÂ*myÂ*USBÂ*st icks,Â*andÂ*oneÂ*ofÂ*the
sticksÂ*hasÂ*aÂ*"FED29"Â*tapedÂ*toÂ*it.Â*AndÂ*that 'sÂ*theÂ*homeÂ*ofÂ*the
formerÂ*FED29Â*liveÂ*image.


Hi Paul,

I use Fedora all over the place.Â* What was
your issue with it?

-T

Went to fedora website and downloaded the disk creator.
Ran it and created the usb live version.
The verification progress bar hit the end and it just hung.
Subtract 1 from the confidence meter...

Burned the .iso to a DVD. That worked fine.
Later found out that the USB thumb drive would boot
with the same symptoms below.

Boot the DVD.
"Fragment count 20
supported ISO:NO
press escape to abort check"

Pressed escape and it booted.
Whaddyamean ISO not supported?
Do they really expect me to run a 'check'
that takes forever every time I load it?
It passed the verification test when burning the ISO.
There's nothing it can do at this point.
Is that a deal breaker? NO.
Does it inspire confidence? NO.


So, it's booted. I can surf the web.

Test 1, create a desktop program launcher.

I could pin a program to the ribbon on the left.
I could not create anything on the desktop.

From previous linux experience I expect that there's some
incantation that can do what I want.

As a windows refugee, I don't want incantations.
I want drag and drop. This simple test determines
whether the developer understands how critical drag
and drop is to a windows refugee. It's likely that
this permeates the whole system.
Fedora FAIL!

Test 2, copy a file from a windows machine.

Fedora recognizes a windows network, but doesn't
identify any inhabitants.

From previous experience I expect that there's some
incantation that can do what I want.
As a windows refugee, I don't want incantations.
I want seamless, automatic, ability to copy files
across my windows network.
There are distros that do this OOTB. Fedora fail.

Those two tests give insight into the developer's
mindset regarding windows refugees.
It seems to correlate with other operational parameters
that will be mystifying to a windows refugee.

I haven't done nearly enough testing to opine whether
Fedora is good or bad as a distro.
I have done sufficient testing to reach a conclusion
that my time would be better spent elsewhere.

I'm not interested in being schooled on why or how to fix the
two problems above.
I would be interested in hearing that the developers
got schooled and fixed the problems above.

Fix it one time in the distro instead of a million times
in the field.

I found Zorin OS 9 to be particularly friendly
(relative to other distros) to windows
refugees. But subsequent releases showed a marked downward
trend in that friendliness.

Are we having fun yet?



Ads
  #152  
Old March 13th 19, 12:04 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 185
Default Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10

On 3/12/2019 9:22 PM, Paul wrote:
Mike wrote:


I understand that there can be hardware issues, but if they're
solved in the live distro, they should be solved in the installed
distro.Â* Anything less is unacceptable.Â* Life is too short.


There's plenty of situations where safer choices are made in
the Live environment, than the installed environment. The
idea being, that "any user worth their salt" can sort
these install-time issues. Which is probably true, considering
the audience.

Â*Â* Paul

I'm not buying it.
If the live environment can get me an active display,
the installed version could surely do it.

If it's not optimal, pop up a message box after the disk boot
that says so
and gives me the opportunity to fix it via a simple GUI.

When the display comes up blank, and you're not a guru,
you're screwed.

The other common issue is the network. I have a USB lan
interface that has native support virtually everywhere.
I use that to get to the network so I can install network
drivers. I'd bet that most windows refugees don't have
that option.

There's a lot of stuff in desktop linux that works great.
But it takes only ONE snafu to derail the train.
  #153  
Old March 13th 19, 12:25 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 185
Default Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10

On 3/12/2019 7:49 PM, T wrote:
On 3/12/19 7:37 PM, Mike wrote:
It'sÂ*notÂ*aboutÂ*whetherÂ*ONEÂ*distroÂ*worksÂ*for Â*you.
It'sÂ*aboutÂ*theÂ*existenceÂ*ofÂ*overÂ*aÂ*hundred *distros
andÂ*theÂ*chaosÂ*thatÂ*ensues.


Yes that is true.Â* But the only two serious Distro are
Fedora and Ubooboo (I can't spell ubunto).

You have an opinion. There are many other opinions.
The ONLY reason to fork a distro is to make it different.

Those bazillions of other distros are just noise.
If you are serious about Linux, use Fedora or Ubooboo.


Those bazillions of distros are chaos that:
Confuses users.
Makes problem solving difficult because the fix
you found on google doesn't apply to what you have.
Makes compatibility testing impossible.
Diffuses linux development resources.
Multiplies support costs for for-profit hardware/software vendors.

Microsoft has ways to punish non-believers.
If you're gonna **** off Microsoft by making linux better,
you'd better have a way to monetize that effort to offset
the sanctions you're gonna get from Microsoft.
The desktop linux business model based on "FREE" is a problem.

Hardware and software vendors have little interest in linux.
They're interested in PROFIT. In today's desktop world,
that's Windows.
  #154  
Old March 13th 19, 12:26 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 185
Default Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10

On 3/12/2019 6:21 PM, T wrote:
On 3/12/19 2:53 AM, Mike wrote:
It'sÂ*notÂ*atÂ*allÂ*whetherÂ*linuxÂ*isÂ*technicall yÂ*superior.
It'sÂ*aboutÂ*whatÂ*theÂ*userÂ*canÂ*getÂ*doneÂ*soÂ* heÂ*canÂ*getÂ*on
withÂ*otherÂ*stuffÂ*inÂ*hisÂ*life.


I can't disagree.Â* It does not matter how technically
superior Linux is if you can't get your work done
on it.

From what I see, my customer never know what OS they are
running as they don't care.Â* I have to remote in and
look for myself.

The customer could care lees if they were running the
Flaming Zucchini OS, as long as they got their work done.
We IT folks are a little bit more "picky".

I only run one app that requires a Windows virtual
machine: Go TO Assist.Â* I bitch a lot about it
to them.

As far as your test goes, if you are use to Linux, then your
would find it hard to do things on Windows.Â* Often times it
is what you know.

Look at all the Apples users out there.Â* They HATE Windows
and can't get Windows to do anything they want.Â* It is
because they have learned to do it the Apple way and
CAN'T LEARN ANYTHING NEW.Â* Just like those use to Windows.

It's not all about 'can't'.
I'm sure I CAN learn to drive a car with the steering wheel
on the right side.
I'm confident that it will get me where I need to go with almost
as much safety...up until I have an emergency that relies on
experience and muscle memory.
I can always get out of the car and walk around to the payment robot
at the car park.
BUT WHY would I go out of my way to do so for no perceived benefit?

The world runs on local standards.
People resist change.
Desktop linux violates both by intent.


  #155  
Old March 13th 19, 01:27 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10

In article , Mike
wrote:


Hardware and software vendors have little interest in linux.
They're interested in PROFIT. In today's desktop world,
that's Windows.


yep, although it's not just windows, but also macos, ios and android.
  #156  
Old March 13th 19, 04:26 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Roger Blake[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 536
Default Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10

On 2019-03-13, nospam wrote:
a lot of laptops don't have ethernet anymore, including the microsoft
surface laptop, hp spectre, asus and many others. it's not unique to
apple. with wireless built in, there's no reason for wired anymore. it
sits unused.


Nonsense. You can't beat the security, reliability, and speed of
a wired connection. (While some wireless specs promise gigabit+
speeds they rarely deliver in real-world situations.)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  #157  
Old March 13th 19, 04:58 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,549
Default Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10

On 03/13/2019 10:26 AM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2019-03-13, nospam wrote:
a lot of laptops don't have ethernet anymore, including the microsoft
surface laptop, hp spectre, asus and many others. it's not unique to
apple. with wireless built in, there's no reason for wired anymore. it
sits unused.


Nonsense. You can't beat the security, reliability, and speed of
a wired connection. (While some wireless specs promise gigabit+
speeds they rarely deliver in real-world situations.)


Of course wired is still useful, I live in a large apartment building
and if I use Wireless I can count about 45 computers transmitting and
possibly sniffing for whatever nefarious reasons, So No Thank You I'll
stick to mu rj45 wire.

Rene

  #158  
Old March 13th 19, 05:35 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10

"Roger Blake" wrote

| On 2019-03-13, nospam wrote:
| a lot of laptops don't have ethernet anymore, including the microsoft
| surface laptop, hp spectre, asus and many others. it's not unique to
| apple. with wireless built in, there's no reason for wired anymore. it
| sits unused.
|
| Nonsense. You can't beat the security, reliability, and speed of
| a wired connection. (While some wireless specs promise gigabit+
| speeds they rarely deliver in real-world situations.)
|
I wired our house with 4 ports, running the wires
next to chimneys and such. It's silly to use wireless
if you don't have to.

You need to be aware, though, that nospam is an
Apple devotee and a compulsive arguer. He hangs around
numerous newsgroups and just argues for the sake
of it, with anyone who'll engage him. Most of what
he says is nonsense made to resemble reasoning.
With his arguments, his rebuttal is always just a bit
off. You say the sky is blue. He'll say not on cloudy
days. You say wires are better. He'll say not if you
don't have a jack on your device. Or maybe he'll
just say "Wrong!" or "Idiot!", without providing the
slightest backup for his position. It just goes in
circles.

There's been speculation that nospam may
actually be a long-running, conversational bot test,
to see how close random, computer generated speech
can come to sounding coherent to a human listener.
Like one of those 8-ball fortune tellers. Remember those?
You'd ask it a question and it would show an answer
on the bottom, in a little window. If it gave a couple
of good answers you might start thinking there was
a ghost in there. Animism is a powerful tendency.


  #159  
Old March 13th 19, 06:08 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 185
Default Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10

On 3/13/2019 10:44 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Mayayana
wrote:

I wired our house with 4 ports, running the wires
next to chimneys and such. It's silly to use wireless
if you don't have to.


not everyone can do that, especially those who rent, and for those who
own, it is often expensive to hide wires in the walls.

but that doesn't work very well for laptops, which was what is being
discussed.

You need to be aware, though, that nospam is an
Apple devotee and a compulsive arguer. He hangs around
numerous newsgroups and just argues for the sake
of it, with anyone who'll engage him. Most of what
he says is nonsense made to resemble reasoning.
With his arguments, his rebuttal is always just a bit
off. You say the sky is blue. He'll say not on cloudy
days. You say wires are better. He'll say not if you
don't have a jack on your device. Or maybe he'll
just say "Wrong!" or "Idiot!", without providing the
slightest backup for his position. It just goes in
circles.


ad hominem.

you have provided *zero* evidence that wired is better.

I did a lot of futzing with a wireless bridge across 20'.
Was dramatically slower than what I get with Gigabit wired
that replaced it.
Across 50' or so to a tablet at the other end of the house,
wireless is horribly slow.
Not everybody has top-tier wireless hardware.
  #160  
Old March 13th 19, 06:33 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10

In article , Roger Blake
wrote:

a lot of laptops don't have ethernet anymore, including the microsoft
surface laptop, hp spectre, asus and many others. it's not unique to
apple. with wireless built in, there's no reason for wired anymore. it
sits unused.


Nonsense. You can't beat the security, reliability, and speed of
a wired connection. (While some wireless specs promise gigabit+
speeds they rarely deliver in real-world situations.)


nonsense right back. modern wireless is bottlenecked by the gigabit
wired uplink in real world conditions (see below for benchmarks), is
extremely reliable (similar to wired, which is not perfect and can
fail) and also has encryption that wired networks do not have, making
it *safer* than wired. it's trivial to drop an ethernet tap and capture
the unencrypted data.

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/imag...sus_rtac86u/as
us_rtac86u_5ghz_peak_dn.jpg
https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/imag...sus_rtac86u/as
us_rtac86u_5ghz_peak_up.jpg

however, my point was that for laptops, wired ethernet is rarely used,
if at all, which is why many laptop makers no longer include it
anymore. there's no point in including a feature that sits unused.

laptops are designed to be mobile, with the vast majority of laptop
users choosing wifi over wired. the few users who need wired can
connect an adapter, although that's increasingly rare.

desktop systems, on the other hand, are designed to stay in one place
so they usually will have an ethernet port, although it's quite common
for many users, particularly home users, to use wifi anyway since they
don't want unsightly cables running across the house. quite often, the
cable/fios connection is *not* where they want the computers.
  #161  
Old March 13th 19, 06:33 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10

In article , Rene Lamontagne
wrote:


Of course wired is still useful,


nobody said wired isn't useful.

for a *laptop*, wired is rarely used, which is why a lot of laptop
makers no longer include it.

I live in a large apartment building
and if I use Wireless I can count about 45 computers transmitting and
possibly sniffing for whatever nefarious reasons,


the only way to know how many computers are actively using wifi in your
apartment would be by sniffing (and i doubt you even know how), and
even then, it's encrypted so you won't get very far.

So No Thank You I'll
stick to mu rj45 wire.


must be a really, really long wire...
  #162  
Old March 13th 19, 06:37 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,549
Default Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10

On 03/13/2019 12:33 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Rene Lamontagne
wrote:


Of course wired is still useful,


nobody said wired isn't useful.

for a *laptop*, wired is rarely used, which is why a lot of laptop
makers no longer include it.

I live in a large apartment building
and if I use Wireless I can count about 45 computers transmitting and
possibly sniffing for whatever nefarious reasons,


the only way to know how many computers are actively using wifi in your
apartment would be by sniffing (and i doubt you even know how), and
even then, it's encrypted so you won't get very far.

So No Thank You I'll
stick to mu rj45 wire.


must be a really, really long wire...



6 foot wire.

I know how, and many other things which you don't.

By the way did I tell you lately your still a useless moron?

Rene

  #163  
Old March 13th 19, 06:44 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

I wired our house with 4 ports, running the wires
next to chimneys and such. It's silly to use wireless
if you don't have to.


not everyone can do that, especially those who rent, and for those who
own, it is often expensive to hide wires in the walls.

but that doesn't work very well for laptops, which was what is being
discussed.

You need to be aware, though, that nospam is an
Apple devotee and a compulsive arguer. He hangs around
numerous newsgroups and just argues for the sake
of it, with anyone who'll engage him. Most of what
he says is nonsense made to resemble reasoning.
With his arguments, his rebuttal is always just a bit
off. You say the sky is blue. He'll say not on cloudy
days. You say wires are better. He'll say not if you
don't have a jack on your device. Or maybe he'll
just say "Wrong!" or "Idiot!", without providing the
slightest backup for his position. It just goes in
circles.


ad hominem.

you have provided *zero* evidence that wired is better.
  #164  
Old March 13th 19, 07:25 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10

In article , Mike
wrote:


I did a lot of futzing with a wireless bridge across 20'.
Was dramatically slower than what I get with Gigabit wired
that replaced it.
Across 50' or so to a tablet at the other end of the house,
wireless is horribly slow.


then whatever you had was junk.

Not everybody has top-tier wireless hardware.


that may be true, but that's an issue with outdated and slow wireless
hardware, not wireless technology itself.

again:
https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/imag...sus_rtac86u/as
us_rtac86u_5ghz_peak_dn.jpg
https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/imag...sus_rtac86u/as
us_rtac86u_5ghz_peak_up.jpg

also, not everybody has top tier wired networks either. even old wifi
hardware will be faster than 100bt and certainly 10bt networks.

the only situation where wifi is slower than wired is with 10gb-e
networks, which are not that common, yet.
  #165  
Old March 13th 19, 07:53 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,549
Default Reason *TO* pick on Windows 10

On 03/13/2019 1:54 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

Of course wired is still useful,

nobody said wired isn't useful.

for a *laptop*, wired is rarely used, which is why a lot of laptop
makers no longer include it.

I live in a large apartment building
and if I use Wireless I can count about 45 computers transmitting and
possibly sniffing for whatever nefarious reasons,

the only way to know how many computers are actively using wifi in your
apartment would be by sniffing (and i doubt you even know how), and
even then, it's encrypted so you won't get very far.

So No Thank You I'll
stick to mu rj45 wire.

must be a really, really long wire...


6 foot wire.


that's quite short and will render a laptop immobile. it's barely long
enough to go behind a desk.

the point which you *still* miss is that nearly all laptop users do not
use wired ethernet, which is why most laptop makers no longer include
it anymore, nor do tablets and phones.

desktop systems are generally wired (although not always), but this was
never about desktop systems.

what *you* personally choose to do is not representative of the rest of
the world and it isn't going to change what others do either.

the reality is that wireless is as fast or faster than wired (assuming
gigabit), comparable in reliability and unlike wired, encrypted.

for 10gb-e networks, wired is faster, but that is not common, yet.
prices are starting to come down, so that is definitely changing.

I know how, and many other things which you don't.


based on what you've posted so far, no you do not.

By the way did I tell you lately your still a useless moron?


ad hominem attack, which means you have nothing to back up your useless
and entirely bogus claims.



Yawn!


 




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