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Direct Attached Storage.
Hi, in an effort to reduce the clutter inside my
computer case I want to buy one of these.... https://www.pccasegear.com/products/...raid-enclosure ....into which I'll install all my data drives. I understand OS drives remain where they are directly connected to the MB. I don't need RAID. Evidently this unit connects to just one USB3 with an external power plug, or an eSata socket at the MB. Can I expect the same performance as now when I switch over? Whould I use a MB USB3, or one from a PCIe extension? Is anyone else using this or similar? Peter |
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#2
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Direct Attached Storage.
Peter Jason wrote:
Hi, in an effort to reduce the clutter inside my computer case I want to buy one of these.... https://www.pccasegear.com/products/...raid-enclosure ...into which I'll install all my data drives. I understand OS drives remain where they are directly connected to the MB. I don't need RAID. Evidently this unit connects to just one USB3 with an external power plug, or an eSata socket at the MB. Can I expect the same performance as now when I switch over? Whould I use a MB USB3, or one from a PCIe extension? No. Direct SATA is faster. -- Take care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com |
#3
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Direct Attached Storage.
Peter Jason wrote:
Hi, in an effort to reduce the clutter inside my computer case I want to buy one of these.... https://www.pccasegear.com/products/...raid-enclosure ...into which I'll install all my data drives. I understand OS drives remain where they are directly connected to the MB. I don't need RAID. Evidently this unit connects to just one USB3 with an external power plug, or an eSata socket at the MB. Can I expect the same performance as now when I switch over? Whould I use a MB USB3, or one from a PCIe extension? Is anyone else using this or similar? Peter If you do that, potentially you won't have "SMART visibility". https://i.postimg.cc/3RD567KJ/USB3-no-SMART-example.gif ******* You could get one of these, to add 8 SATA ports to the inside of the PC. https://www.amazon.com/Marvell-Contr.../dp/B01ASLC83W There are other cabling standards, like a connector with four SATA channels on it. This example of a card shows SFF-8087 as output (although I wouldn't buy this particular card). http://www.arp.com/medias/14122906.pdf Another example. But we need one with (some) connector on the faceplate. https://www.startech.com/ca/support/PEXSAT34SFF You can get passive SATA backplanes, like this four drive bay, with basically nothing but connectors and a cooling fan. No other gubbins. This would run on DC power from the main PC. Just needs enough amps on +12V. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA6ZP3K27413 https://www.startech.com/HDD/Mobile-...e~HSB4SATSASBA And then you have to find a way to run cables between the main computer and the SATA backplane. What's not shown in the Startech example, is how you route SATA 15 pin power. It looks like they have only one connector, per two drives, and that's not a good idea. ******* Your solution is an all in one, with its own dodgy power supply. Which you're trusting has OVP, OCP, and so on. If you don't have any details about the power supply, then you won't know what danger you're running the drives into. And the other thing, is whether "SMART" is visible. I'd want to be able to check SMART on the drives. Can you do that over USB ? Paul |
#4
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Direct Attached Storage.
Peter Jason wrote:
Hi, in an effort to reduce the clutter inside my computer case I want to buy one of these.... https://www.pccasegear.com/products/...raid-enclosure ...into which I'll install all my data drives. I understand OS drives remain where they are directly connected to the MB. I don't need RAID. Evidently this unit connects to just one USB3 with an external power plug, or an eSata socket at the MB. Can I expect the same performance as now when I switch over? Whould I use a MB USB3, or one from a PCIe extension? Is anyone else using this or similar? Peter USB 3.0 performance won't be as good as sata. I don't have a USB 3.1 stick to test. Crystal Disk data on 4 of my drives a few min ago: Read / Write in MB/Sec: SanDisk 64GB USB 3.0: 107 / 38 WD 500 Black 6Gb/sec, Sata: 174 / 170 Sam 500 EVO 860 Sata: 355 / 345 Sam 512 PRO 970 NVMe: 3573 / 2335 |
#5
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Direct Attached Storage.
"Paul" wrote in message ...
Peter Jason wrote: Hi, in an effort to reduce the clutter inside my computer case I want to buy one of these.... https://www.pccasegear.com/products/...raid-enclosure ...into which I'll install all my data drives. I understand OS drives remain where they are directly connected to the MB. I don't need RAID. Evidently this unit connects to just one USB3 with an external power plug, or an eSata socket at the MB. Can I expect the same performance as now when I switch over? Whould I use a MB USB3, or one from a PCIe extension? Is anyone else using this or similar? Peter If you do that, potentially you won't have "SMART visibility". https://i.postimg.cc/3RD567KJ/USB3-no-SMART-example.gif ******* You could get one of these, to add 8 SATA ports to the inside of the PC. https://www.amazon.com/Marvell-Contr.../dp/B01ASLC83W There are other cabling standards, like a connector with four SATA channels on it. This example of a card shows SFF-8087 as output (although I wouldn't buy this particular card). http://www.arp.com/medias/14122906.pdf Another example. But we need one with (some) connector on the faceplate. https://www.startech.com/ca/support/PEXSAT34SFF You can get passive SATA backplanes, like this four drive bay, with basically nothing but connectors and a cooling fan. No other gubbins. This would run on DC power from the main PC. Just needs enough amps on +12V. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA6ZP3K27413 https://www.startech.com/HDD/Mobile-...e~HSB4SATSASBA And then you have to find a way to run cables between the main computer and the SATA backplane. What's not shown in the Startech example, is how you route SATA 15 pin power. It looks like they have only one connector, per two drives, and that's not a good idea. ******* Your solution is an all in one, with its own dodgy power supply. Which you're trusting has OVP, OCP, and so on. If you don't have any details about the power supply, then you won't know what danger you're running the drives into. And the other thing, is whether "SMART" is visible. I'd want to be able to check SMART on the drives. Can you do that over USB ? Paul Paul, CrystalDiskInfo 8.0 does work with *some* external USB drives. See: https://crystalmark.info/en/software/crystaldiskinfo/ PassMark also works with USB drives. See https://www.passmark.com/products/diskcheckup.htm However, for the multi-disk enclosure in this application it may show only the first drive. More info on the site. But yes - SMART status can be accessed on some models of USB drives with -- Bob S. |
#6
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Direct Attached Storage.
On 11/03/2019 21:24, Peter Jason wrote:
Hi, in an effort to reduce the clutter inside my computer case I want to buy one of these.... https://www.pccasegear.com/products/...raid-enclosure ...into which I'll install all my data drives. I understand OS drives remain where they are directly connected to the MB. I don't need RAID. Evidently this unit connects to just one USB3 with an external power plug, or an eSata socket at the MB. Can I expect the same performance as now when I switch over? Whould I use a MB USB3, or one from a PCIe extension? Is anyone else using this or similar? Peter I've got one of these: https://www.ebuyer.com/661690-qnap-ts-ec1080-pro-10-bay-nas-enclosure-ts-ec1080-pro [ alt-no ] https://img.ebyrcdn.net/631350-661690-800.jpg The cost is prohibitive but I need something that can be kept away from all my computers and only accessed via the cat7. This is kept in my garage where it is very cold for anybody to spend more than 30 minutes!!!. However, I have started using Microsoft Azure storage and also Amazon's AWS but these online cloud services are not suitable for certain things such as your own test programs and tools that make changes to registry entries etc. Their anti-virus programs are very aggressive and deletes or blocks them. You need something that can be accessed via a cat7 cable - NOT USB connection. -- With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. |
#8
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Direct Attached Storage.
On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:04:27 -0400, Paul
wrote: Peter Jason wrote: Hi, in an effort to reduce the clutter inside my computer case I want to buy one of these.... https://www.pccasegear.com/products/...raid-enclosure ...into which I'll install all my data drives. I understand OS drives remain where they are directly connected to the MB. I don't need RAID. Evidently this unit connects to just one USB3 with an external power plug, or an eSata socket at the MB. Can I expect the same performance as now when I switch over? Whould I use a MB USB3, or one from a PCIe extension? Is anyone else using this or similar? Peter If you do that, potentially you won't have "SMART visibility". https://i.postimg.cc/3RD567KJ/USB3-no-SMART-example.gif ******* You could get one of these, to add 8 SATA ports to the inside of the PC. https://www.amazon.com/Marvell-Contr.../dp/B01ASLC83W There are other cabling standards, like a connector with four SATA channels on it. This example of a card shows SFF-8087 as output (although I wouldn't buy this particular card). http://www.arp.com/medias/14122906.pdf Another example. But we need one with (some) connector on the faceplate. https://www.startech.com/ca/support/PEXSAT34SFF You can get passive SATA backplanes, like this four drive bay, with basically nothing but connectors and a cooling fan. No other gubbins. This would run on DC power from the main PC. Just needs enough amps on +12V. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA6ZP3K27413 https://www.startech.com/HDD/Mobile-...e~HSB4SATSASBA And then you have to find a way to run cables between the main computer and the SATA backplane. What's not shown in the Startech example, is how you route SATA 15 pin power. It looks like they have only one connector, per two drives, and that's not a good idea. ******* Your solution is an all in one, with its own dodgy power supply. Which you're trusting has OVP, OCP, and so on. If you don't have any details about the power supply, then you won't know what danger you're running the drives into. And the other thing, is whether "SMART" is visible. I'd want to be able to check SMART on the drives. Can you do that over USB ? Paul Thanks Paul, Already I have 3 of these type...... https://www.pccasegear.com/products/...ocking-station .... and I thought the 8-bay one above would be a larger compact version, with fan and auto shut down. The little docks work very well. |
#9
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Direct Attached Storage.
Peter Jason wrote:
On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:04:27 -0400, Paul wrote: Peter Jason wrote: Hi, in an effort to reduce the clutter inside my computer case I want to buy one of these.... https://www.pccasegear.com/products/...raid-enclosure ...into which I'll install all my data drives. I understand OS drives remain where they are directly connected to the MB. I don't need RAID. Evidently this unit connects to just one USB3 with an external power plug, or an eSata socket at the MB. Can I expect the same performance as now when I switch over? Whould I use a MB USB3, or one from a PCIe extension? Is anyone else using this or similar? Peter If you do that, potentially you won't have "SMART visibility". https://i.postimg.cc/3RD567KJ/USB3-no-SMART-example.gif ******* You could get one of these, to add 8 SATA ports to the inside of the PC. https://www.amazon.com/Marvell-Contr.../dp/B01ASLC83W There are other cabling standards, like a connector with four SATA channels on it. This example of a card shows SFF-8087 as output (although I wouldn't buy this particular card). http://www.arp.com/medias/14122906.pdf Another example. But we need one with (some) connector on the faceplate. https://www.startech.com/ca/support/PEXSAT34SFF You can get passive SATA backplanes, like this four drive bay, with basically nothing but connectors and a cooling fan. No other gubbins. This would run on DC power from the main PC. Just needs enough amps on +12V. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA6ZP3K27413 https://www.startech.com/HDD/Mobile-...e~HSB4SATSASBA And then you have to find a way to run cables between the main computer and the SATA backplane. What's not shown in the Startech example, is how you route SATA 15 pin power. It looks like they have only one connector, per two drives, and that's not a good idea. ******* Your solution is an all in one, with its own dodgy power supply. Which you're trusting has OVP, OCP, and so on. If you don't have any details about the power supply, then you won't know what danger you're running the drives into. And the other thing, is whether "SMART" is visible. I'd want to be able to check SMART on the drives. Can you do that over USB ? Paul Thanks Paul, Already I have 3 of these type...... https://www.pccasegear.com/products/...ocking-station ... and I thought the 8-bay one above would be a larger compact version, with fan and auto shut down. The little docks work very well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_ma...e_device_class "The USB Attached SCSI (UAS) protocol, introduced in USB 3.0, fixes several of these issues, including command queuing, command pipes for hardware requiring them, and power management. " It's possible the UAS driver is helping with SMART. If I take that device over to the other machine, who knows, maybe the SMART will magically appear :-) I notice on Win10, that Powershell is able to access the Power-On-Hours SMART parameter from the USB3-cable-with-SSD, while HDTune is still blank. Which makes the ten year old HDTune program the likely culprit. If I was buying your 8 slot tower, I'd want to find some customer reviews, to see if the power supply has ever caused problems. For example, there was a time when a number of different brands of USB-to-IDE/SATA portable adapters, the power supply would go on them, and sometimes, it would ruin the hard drive connected to the adapter. The power supply quality improved, but it took a couple years before popping power supplies were no longer an issue. If the supply is rated at 12A, and there are eight drives, that is 1.5A per drive at spinup. Drives vary a bit, with respect to spinup current. In some informal tests here, the results were "the smaller the drive, the higher the startup current". You would not expect a box full of 4TB drives to go for max-current at startup. But if you had eight 500GB boot-drive type hard drives, those might actually exceed the power supply capacity by a small amount (but for the first ten seconds). There are two options: 1) The power supply designer knows the load consists of hard drives, and that the power supply may be slightly overloaded for about ten seconds. A designer could modify the OCP so it doesn't trip quite as easily (set it at 135%). 2) The box could use "staggered spin", which sequences the spinup of the disks, and that keeps the peak power drain under control. The cooling fan on the box looks like 80mm or so, which means it might be audible. If it was 120mm or 135mm, it might be a bit quieter (as it could run at a lower RPM). I prefer my fans to stay on, and run at a constant RPM, to help them blend into the background. I'm not a big fan of thermostatic control, and various fans switching on and off in the room, like you're in a "boiler room" somewhere. See if someone else carries it, someone with customer reviews. Paul |
#10
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Direct Attached Storage.
Peter Jason wrote:
On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:04:27 -0400, Paul wrote: Peter Jason wrote: Hi, in an effort to reduce the clutter inside my computer case I want to buy one of these.... https://www.pccasegear.com/products/...raid-enclosure ...into which I'll install all my data drives. I understand OS drives remain where they are directly connected to the MB. I don't need RAID. Evidently this unit connects to just one USB3 with an external power plug, or an eSata socket at the MB. Can I expect the same performance as now when I switch over? Whould I use a MB USB3, or one from a PCIe extension? Is anyone else using this or similar? Peter If you do that, potentially you won't have "SMART visibility". https://i.postimg.cc/3RD567KJ/USB3-no-SMART-example.gif ******* You could get one of these, to add 8 SATA ports to the inside of the PC. https://www.amazon.com/Marvell-Contr.../dp/B01ASLC83W There are other cabling standards, like a connector with four SATA channels on it. This example of a card shows SFF-8087 as output (although I wouldn't buy this particular card). http://www.arp.com/medias/14122906.pdf Another example. But we need one with (some) connector on the faceplate. https://www.startech.com/ca/support/PEXSAT34SFF You can get passive SATA backplanes, like this four drive bay, with basically nothing but connectors and a cooling fan. No other gubbins. This would run on DC power from the main PC. Just needs enough amps on +12V. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA6ZP3K27413 https://www.startech.com/HDD/Mobile-...e~HSB4SATSASBA And then you have to find a way to run cables between the main computer and the SATA backplane. What's not shown in the Startech example, is how you route SATA 15 pin power. It looks like they have only one connector, per two drives, and that's not a good idea. ******* Your solution is an all in one, with its own dodgy power supply. Which you're trusting has OVP, OCP, and so on. If you don't have any details about the power supply, then you won't know what danger you're running the drives into. And the other thing, is whether "SMART" is visible. I'd want to be able to check SMART on the drives. Can you do that over USB ? Paul Thanks Paul, Already I have 3 of these type...... https://www.pccasegear.com/products/...ocking-station ... and I thought the 8-bay one above would be a larger compact version, with fan and auto shut down. The little docks work very well. Those docks are usb 3 also so your mini tower thing will have similar performance. Although, you'll lose the parallel access of the multiple usb connections; all your 6 drives will be hanging of one USB port rather than three currently. One question is how big are your drives? If they're less than 8TB it may be more cost effective and more decluttering to consolidate your drives onto newer, bigger ones. |
#11
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Direct Attached Storage.
On 3/11/2019 9:33 PM, Peter Jason wrote:
On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:04:27 -0400, Paul wrote: Peter Jason wrote: Hi, in an effort to reduce the clutter inside my computer case I want to buy one of these.... https://www.pccasegear.com/products/...raid-enclosure ...into which I'll install all my data drives. I understand OS drives remain where they are directly connected to the MB. I don't need RAID. Evidently this unit connects to just one USB3 with an external power plug, or an eSata socket at the MB. Can I expect the same performance as now when I switch over? Whould I use a MB USB3, or one from a PCIe extension? Is anyone else using this or similar? Peter If you do that, potentially you won't have "SMART visibility". https://i.postimg.cc/3RD567KJ/USB3-no-SMART-example.gif ******* You could get one of these, to add 8 SATA ports to the inside of the PC. https://www.amazon.com/Marvell-Contr.../dp/B01ASLC83W There are other cabling standards, like a connector with four SATA channels on it. This example of a card shows SFF-8087 as output (although I wouldn't buy this particular card). http://www.arp.com/medias/14122906.pdf Another example. But we need one with (some) connector on the faceplate. https://www.startech.com/ca/support/PEXSAT34SFF You can get passive SATA backplanes, like this four drive bay, with basically nothing but connectors and a cooling fan. No other gubbins. This would run on DC power from the main PC. Just needs enough amps on +12V. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA6ZP3K27413 https://www.startech.com/HDD/Mobile-...e~HSB4SATSASBA And then you have to find a way to run cables between the main computer and the SATA backplane. What's not shown in the Startech example, is how you route SATA 15 pin power. It looks like they have only one connector, per two drives, and that's not a good idea. ******* Your solution is an all in one, with its own dodgy power supply. Which you're trusting has OVP, OCP, and so on. If you don't have any details about the power supply, then you won't know what danger you're running the drives into. And the other thing, is whether "SMART" is visible. I'd want to be able to check SMART on the drives. Can you do that over USB ? Paul Thanks Paul, Already I have 3 of these type...... https://www.pccasegear.com/products/...ocking-station ... and I thought the 8-bay one above would be a larger compact version, with fan and auto shut down. The little docks work very well. Depends a lot on what you're doing and how many computers need access. In my case, I like all the stuff that I use frequently inside my PC case. I have several consumer grade external drive boxes for archive stuff. The stuff I'm currently working on gets temporarily copied back to the PC. If I'm editing, it's much safer to edit a copy anyway. My external archive/backup drives stay powered off 99.9% of the time. Less wear and tear on the drives. Less power consumption. Not a single point failure issue. Resistant to virus and hackers. You can't harm it if it ain't turned on. I have a 64GB thumb drive in the PC for short term backup/archives. I can sync that to an external drive as needed. And another one plugged into the router that has stuff commonly needed to build/configure a PC. I don't have to give an unknown used PC direct access to my primary PC. For external drives, I find USB3 to be the most convenient. It's easy to unmount and power down. I don't use ESATA much because once it gets turned on, you have to jump thru a few hoops to shut it off safely. Not an issue if it's always powered on. If you're using the orico's you're already familiar with the usb speed issues. Looks like it's faster than hell for big files under the OS buffer size. You see the actual transfer speed when buffer is exceeded. VERY slow for lots of very small files. Seems that it takes more time to set up the transfer than to move the data. And single point interface can strangle the data if you're accessing more than one computer. I experimented with NAS. It worked fine when it worked. The damn things kept locking up. Maybe it was just the crap consumer grade units. And I didn't like all my data hanging on the network. Didn't know how well the internal firewall worked. If I had $350 to spend and was willing to waste the power to keep it running, I'd probably buy a cheapo obsolete computer and turn it into a linux file server. Then I'd invest the remaining $325 in actual storage capacity. |
#12
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Direct Attached Storage.
On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:04:27 -0400, Paul
wrote: Peter Jason wrote: Hi, in an effort to reduce the clutter inside my computer case I want to buy one of these.... https://www.pccasegear.com/products/...raid-enclosure I bought one and I have installed 5 HHDs so far, with no loss in performance I can see. Some points so far:...... 1/ It has two fans that produce a gale thru the unit; sucks in air at the bottom front and discharges at the back. 2/ One of the fans is a bit noisy. 3/ Has its own power supply, I havn't tried the eSata yet. 4/ The interior is tinny & stygian black; one needs a torch to aim the HDDs into the Sata sockets at the back. Support for the HDDs is a bar at the front & only the Sata sockets at the back. A light interior color scheme would help. 5/ The unit switches off with the computer, but doesn't swith on by itself when the computer is switched on. For that one uses "sync" mode that maintains power to the unit which then stays warm. 6/ It's OK so far and does the job I want, that is getting most of the HHDs out of the computer case to alleviate the tangled rat's nest therein. 7/ It's early day's yet. |
#13
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Direct Attached Storage.
On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 12:30:17 +1100, Peter Jason wrote:
On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:04:27 -0400, Paul wrote: Peter Jason wrote: Hi, in an effort to reduce the clutter inside my computer case I want to buy one of these.... https://www.pccasegear.com/products/...raid-enclosure I bought one and I have installed 5 HHDs so far, with no loss in performance I can see. Some points so far:...... 1/ It has two fans that produce a gale thru the unit; sucks in air at the bottom front and discharges at the back. 2/ One of the fans is a bit noisy. 3/ Has its own power supply, I havn't tried the eSata yet. 4/ The interior is tinny & stygian black; one needs a torch to aim the HDDs into the Sata sockets at the back. Support for the HDDs is a bar at the front & only the Sata sockets at the back. A light interior color scheme would help. 5/ The unit switches off with the computer, but doesn't swith on by itself when the computer is switched on. For that one uses "sync" mode that maintains power to the unit which then stays warm. 6/ It's OK so far and does the job I want, that is getting most of the HHDs out of the computer case to alleviate the tangled rat's nest therein. My server has 16 internal drives and there is no rats nest of cables because I took care to route the cables in a neat fashion. Cable management, right? If I were in your current position, I'd be looking to move those drives inside the case to alleviate the data bottleneck and to clean up the visible cabling. Kind of the opposite of what you're doing. 7/ It's early day's yet. |
#14
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Direct Attached Storage.
On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 21:09:02 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote: On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 12:30:17 +1100, Peter Jason wrote: On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:04:27 -0400, Paul wrote: Peter Jason wrote: Hi, in an effort to reduce the clutter inside my computer case I want to buy one of these.... https://www.pccasegear.com/products/...raid-enclosure I bought one and I have installed 5 HHDs so far, with no loss in performance I can see. Some points so far:...... 1/ It has two fans that produce a gale thru the unit; sucks in air at the bottom front and discharges at the back. 2/ One of the fans is a bit noisy. 3/ Has its own power supply, I havn't tried the eSata yet. 4/ The interior is tinny & stygian black; one needs a torch to aim the HDDs into the Sata sockets at the back. Support for the HDDs is a bar at the front & only the Sata sockets at the back. A light interior color scheme would help. 5/ The unit switches off with the computer, but doesn't swith on by itself when the computer is switched on. For that one uses "sync" mode that maintains power to the unit which then stays warm. 6/ It's OK so far and does the job I want, that is getting most of the HHDs out of the computer case to alleviate the tangled rat's nest therein. My server has 16 internal drives and there is no rats nest of cables because I took care to route the cables in a neat fashion. Cable management, right? If I were in your current position, I'd be looking to move those drives inside the case to alleviate the data bottleneck and to clean up the visible cabling. Kind of the opposite of what you're doing. 7/ It's early day's yet. I forgot to mention the unit cannot handle the SSD sizes, at least without a separate tray. I'm investigating this now. |
#15
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Direct Attached Storage.
On 12/03/2019 00.04, Paul wrote:
Your solution is an all in one, with its own dodgy power supply. Which you're trusting has OVP, OCP, and so on. If you don't have any details about the power supply, then you won't know what danger you're running the drives into. And the other thing, is whether "SMART" is visible. I'd want to be able to check SMART on the drives. Can you do that over USB ? Yes, if the particular chip is supported by the software that reads SMART. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
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